TOTALLY GEEKED!

huskerbb · Guru

Voter ID laws

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I just never understand the arguments that voter ID laws are discriminatory. Adults in this country are supposed to have an ID.

Divine Geek · Guru

Because of how my birthday falls, I only voted by absentee ballot until I moved to Indiana after college. The first time I physically went to a poll, I was frankly shocked that I didn't have to show ID. I said, so anyone could come in here, say they are me, and vote? The women goes, yeah, I guess.

I think showing ID is a good thing. I have to show ID to buy a bottle of booze, I think voting is a little more sensitive

Bonny22Pye · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
I just never understand the arguments that voter ID laws are discriminatory. Adults in this country are supposed to have an ID.

I thought it was considered discriminatory because you have to pay for an ID and poor uneducated people don't have the means to get one.

huskerbb · Guru

Bonny22Pye wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
I just never understand the arguments that voter ID laws are discriminatory. Adults in this country are supposed to have an ID.

I thought it was considered discriminatory because you have to pay for an ID and poor uneducated people don't have the means to get one.

That's the argument--but it's BS.

Go into any "poor" person's house. Almost without exception they'll have a large, flat screen TV.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

In South Carolina State id cards are free. If you don't have transportation someone will come get you to have one made. They still whine and say discrimination.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Bonny22Pye wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
I just never understand the arguments that voter ID laws are discriminatory. Adults in this country are supposed to have an ID.

I thought it was considered discriminatory because you have to pay for an ID and poor uneducated people don't have the means to get one.

Then make them free. Why not? We give away phones, an ID is nothing.

Bonny22Pye · Guru

I don't have a problem with requiring IDs. If your not smart enough to get one, you probably shouldn't be voting

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I agree that voting should require ID.

I also sometimes think a person should have to own property and prove they pay taxes.

I would not be opposed to a basic test on how the government works to get that ID either.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I don't get the uproar...unless they WANT to encourage election fraud.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

lilyofcourse wrote:
I agree that voting should require ID.

I also sometimes think a person should have to own property and prove they pay taxes.

I would not be opposed to a basic test on how the government works to get that ID either.

Uh, no. We specifically did away with that in the Constitution.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I said sometimes.

I live in an area with a lot of property owners. Most own. Those taxes go into the schools here.

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I agree that voting should require ID.

I also sometimes think a person should have to own property and prove they pay taxes.

I would not be opposed to a basic test on how the government works to get that ID either.
Uh, no. We specifically did away with that in the Constitution.

You are right--but here is what I would say.

The end of a democracy occurs when people figure out that they can, really, just vote themselves money. Those who have the money that are paying the taxes that line the pockets of those who do not will go along with this AS LONG AS such a society and government still benefits them.

So far, it has. The United States is still a great place to make and keep money. However, there could come a time when our crushing debt and promised entitlement payments make it so that tax rates have to be punitive. When that happens, the democracy will collapse. Those with money and property will either fund a revolution, or they will simply take their money elsewhere and the government will fall due to lack of basic funding (look at Detroit now).

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I agree that voting should require ID.

I also sometimes think a person should have to own property and prove they pay taxes.

I would not be opposed to a basic test on how the government works to get that ID either.
Uh, no. We specifically did away with that in the Constitution.
You are right--but here is what I would say.

The end of a democracy occurs when people figure out that they can, really, just vote themselves money. Those who have the money that are paying the taxes that line the pockets of those who do not will go along with this AS LONG AS such a society and government still benefits them.

So far, it has. The United States is still a great place to make and keep money. However, there could come a time when our crushing debt and promised entitlement payments make it so that tax rates have to be punitive. When that happens, the democracy will collapse. Those with money and property will either fund a revolution, or they will simply take their money elsewhere and the government will fall due to lack of basic funding (look at Detroit now).

I agree with that.

ed11563 · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
I said sometimes.

I live in an area with a lot of property owners. Most own. Those taxes go into the schools here.

People who rent pay money to the property owners, who always pay real estate taxes on their rental properties.

One way or another, if you live in a school district, some of your money goes to pay for the schools.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

Here if you live in the property you own your property tax is half. If you just have land sitting there or rent your home out you have to pay full rate.

Divine Geek · Guru

Southern_Belle wrote:
Here if you live in the property you own your property tax is half. If you just have land sitting there or rent your home out you have to pay full rate.

It's like that in Indiana. You get a homestead credit for the property if you reside there. You pay full price if it's like a rental property.

honestly, I don't know about here. I've never owned property in this state. Thankfully, I still get to vote though

JPT · Senior Member

Lawyerlady wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
I just never understand the arguments that voter ID laws are discriminatory. Adults in this country are supposed to have an ID.

I thought it was considered discriminatory because you have to pay for an ID and poor uneducated people don't have the means to get one.
Then make them free. Why not? We give away phones, an ID is nothing.

It's not the ID card itself that is the issue. It's the documentation you have to produce to obtain that ID that can run into serious dollars.

To comply with REAL ID, which makes a state issued DL or ID card acceptable for use in air travel, there has to be a legal paper trail for EVERY name you've had over the years. Men, usually not a problem, as they tend to have the same name over their lives. Women marry, divorce, remarry....often taking their husband's name in doing so. When that woman has to go for a renewal for her DL or ID, she needs not only a certified copy of her birth certificate, but cert copies of marriage license, divorce decree, marriage license....so you now are into 4 documents that aren't cheap anymore.

I had to get a certified copy of my marriage license from California. It took several weeks, and cost me $65. I can afford it. Multiply that, and then consider a woman who may be struggling along on low wages, and you can see that she might not be able to produce that ID in time at the polls.

I think there will be thousandfold more people disenfranchise than those attempting voter fraud.

Divine Geek · Guru

Forgive me JPT, but that is BS. The same ID they use to drive a car, get a job, cash a check, etc is the same one they need to show at the polls.

When I worked at a bank and would as for a DL to cash a check, I would get all kinds of push back. Once, I had a guy on the drive through tell me he didn't have a DL to show me. Our security officer - an off duty cop- walked up behind me and asked if he heard right that this guy driving a car didn't have a DL. I said yes. Cop said, tell him I'll be right out. The guy magically had a DL then.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

JPT wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
I just never understand the arguments that voter ID laws are discriminatory. Adults in this country are supposed to have an ID.

I thought it was considered discriminatory because you have to pay for an ID and poor uneducated people don't have the means to get one.
Then make them free. Why not? We give away phones, an ID is nothing.
It's not the ID card itself that is the issue. It's the documentation you have to produce to obtain that ID that can run into serious dollars.

To comply with REAL ID, which makes a state issued DL or ID card acceptable for use in air travel, there has to be a legal paper trail for EVERY name you've had over the years. Men, usually not a problem, as they tend to have the same name over their lives. Women marry, divorce, remarry....often taking their husband's name in doing so. When that woman has to go for a renewal for her DL or ID, she needs not only a certified copy of her birth certificate, but cert copies of marriage license, divorce decree, marriage license....so you now are into 4 documents that aren't cheap anymore.
I had to get a certified copy of my marriage license from California. It took several weeks, and cost me $65. I can afford it. Multiply that, and then consider a woman who may be struggling along on low wages, and you can see that she might not be able to produce that ID in time at the polls.
I think there will be thousandfold more people disenfranchise than those attempting voter fraud.

You have to show an ID to an employer. Elections occur yearly, surely someone who wants to vote has had plenty of time to obtain an ID.

ed11563 · Guru

Divine Geek wrote:
Southern_Belle wrote:
Here if you live in the property you own your property tax is half. If you just have land sitting there or rent your home out you have to pay full rate.
It's like that in Indiana. You get a homestead credit for the property if you reside there. You pay full price if it's like a rental property.
honestly, I don't know about here. I've never owned property in this state. Thankfully, I still get to vote though

Can I get that??? I just paid my $6,000 school tax bill.

JPT · Senior Member

Divine Geek wrote:
Forgive me JPT, but that is BS. The same ID they use to drive a car, get a job, cash a check, etc is the same one they need to show at the polls.

When I worked at a bank and would as for a DL to cash a check, I would get all kinds of push back. Once, I had a guy on the drive through tell me he didn't have a DL to show me. Our security officer - an off duty cop- walked up behind me and asked if he heard right that this guy driving a car didn't have a DL. I said yes. Cop said, tell him I'll be right out. The guy magically had a DL then.

DG, just a question, when do you have to renew your license? Because if you are coming up on one where you have to physically go in, be prepared...At least 6 months out, you'd better check to see if you have all the required proof of identity and residence.

I know most of them currently have ID. It's when it expires and you have to go get a new one that it became harder. Are you married? Is your name the same as the one on your birth certificate? If not, you'd better start thinking about getting your required proof of every name change in order.

I will just sit here and wait for the griping and complaining that will inevitably be posted the first time one of you shows up to renew your license and be told you don't have all the right paperwork. biggrin

JPT · Senior Member

Advice for those ladies who haven't yet married, do yourself an enormous favor and keep your birth name....

ed11563 · Guru

JPT wrote:
Divine Geek wrote:
Forgive me JPT, but that is BS. The same ID they use to drive a car, get a job, cash a check, etc is the same one they need to show at the polls.

When I worked at a bank and would as for a DL to cash a check, I would get all kinds of push back. Once, I had a guy on the drive through tell me he didn't have a DL to show me. Our security officer - an off duty cop- walked up behind me and asked if he heard right that this guy driving a car didn't have a DL. I said yes. Cop said, tell him I'll be right out. The guy magically had a DL then.

DG, just a question, when do you have to renew your license? Because if you are coming up on one where you have to physically go in, be prepared...At least 6 months out, you'd better check to see if you have all the required proof of identity and residence.

I know most of them currently have ID. It's when it expires and you have to go get a new one that it became harder. Are you married? Is your name the same as the one on your birth certificate? If not, you'd better start thinking about getting your required proof of every name change in order.
I will just sit here and wait for the griping and complaining that will inevitably be posted the first time one of you shows up to renew your license and be told you don't have all the right paperwork.

Our DMV is doing almost everything by mail and Internet these days. They send out forms, and they take credit cards and renewals on the Net.

Divine Geek · Guru

Actually, I just moved to another state about a year ago. In order to get my license I needed: my current Indiana DL, my birth certificate, social security card ( could have used a passport for both of those, but mine is expired), and a piece of mail proving my residence in my current state (utility bill, bank statement, pay stub etc). I had all of those documents, I paid my $25, smiled pretty and got my new license.

About 6 months ago, I added my motorcycle endorsement. I gave them my current valid license, my card from the motorcycle class allowing the endorsement, paid $25, smiled pretty and got my new license.

A year before I left Indiana, I renewed my license. I went online, clicked renew, verified that no info had changed, put in my CC# and two weeks later my new license came in the mail.

I have plenty of experience this last year with the DMV, none of them have been cumbersome or even overly expensive.

Divine Geek · Guru

JPT wrote:
Advice for those ladies who haven't yet married, do yourself an enormous favor and keep your birth name....

Or keep all your important documents like you should anyways.

huskerbb · Guru

JPT wrote:
Advice for those ladies who haven't yet married, do yourself an enormous favor and keep your birth name....

Why is that a "favor"?

I don't care--do it or don't--but it's not a big deal to change it if you want to, either.

huskerbb · Guru

JPT wrote:
Divine Geek wrote:
Forgive me JPT, but that is BS. The same ID they use to drive a car, get a job, cash a check, etc is the same one they need to show at the polls.

When I worked at a bank and would as for a DL to cash a check, I would get all kinds of push back. Once, I had a guy on the drive through tell me he didn't have a DL to show me. Our security officer - an off duty cop- walked up behind me and asked if he heard right that this guy driving a car didn't have a DL. I said yes. Cop said, tell him I'll be right out. The guy magically had a DL then.

DG, just a question, when do you have to renew your license? Because if you are coming up on one where you have to physically go in, be prepared...At least 6 months out, you'd better check to see if you have all the required proof of identity and residence.

I know most of them currently have ID. It's when it expires and you have to go get a new one that it became harder. Are you married? Is your name the same as the one on your birth certificate? If not, you'd better start thinking about getting your required proof of every name change in order.
I will just sit here and wait for the griping and complaining that will inevitably be posted the first time one of you shows up to renew your license and be told you don't have all the right paperwork.

Um, that would be called a marriage license. Not that big of a deal.

huskerbb · Guru

JPT wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
I just never understand the arguments that voter ID laws are discriminatory. Adults in this country are supposed to have an ID.

I thought it was considered discriminatory because you have to pay for an ID and poor uneducated people don't have the means to get one.
Then make them free. Why not? We give away phones, an ID is nothing.
It's not the ID card itself that is the issue. It's the documentation you have to produce to obtain that ID that can run into serious dollars.

To comply with REAL ID, which makes a state issued DL or ID card acceptable for use in air travel, there has to be a legal paper trail for EVERY name you've had over the years. Men, usually not a problem, as they tend to have the same name over their lives. Women marry, divorce, remarry....often taking their husband's name in doing so. When that woman has to go for a renewal for her DL or ID, she needs not only a certified copy of her birth certificate, but cert copies of marriage license, divorce decree, marriage license....so you now are into 4 documents that aren't cheap anymore.
I had to get a certified copy of my marriage license from California. It took several weeks, and cost me $65. I can afford it. Multiply that, and then consider a woman who may be struggling along on low wages, and you can see that she might not be able to produce that ID in time at the polls.
I think there will be thousandfold more people disenfranchise than those attempting voter fraud.

Why didn't you keep the first one?

Or--just keep the first marriage, then you only have one change to worry about.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

huskerbb wrote:
JPT wrote:
Advice for those ladies who haven't yet married, do yourself an enormous favor and keep your birth name....
Why is that a "favor"?

I don't care--do it or don't--but it's not a big deal to change it if you want to, either.

Yes. It is.

Divine Geek · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
JPT wrote:
Advice for those ladies who haven't yet married, do yourself an enormous favor and keep your birth name....
Why is that a "favor"?

I don't care--do it or don't--but it's not a big deal to change it if you want to, either.
Yes. It is.

To change your name? It's not really a big deal, it just adds to what you will need. But if you are good about keeping all your important documents, it's not a huge hassle.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Divine Geek wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
JPT wrote:
Advice for those ladies who haven't yet married, do yourself an enormous favor and keep your birth name....
Why is that a "favor"?

I don't care--do it or don't--but it's not a big deal to change it if you want to, either.
Yes. It is.
To change your name? It's not really a big deal, it just adds to what you will need. But if you are good about keeping all your important documents, it's not a huge hassle.

When I divorced I was offered the chance to take my maiden name back. I chose not to. I didn't want my kids to have a different name than I did.

To change it now I would need to go to court and show reason why I want it changed.

The sheer hassle of that is not more than I want to deal with.

It can be very difficult to change your name. Depends on the judge.

Divine Geek · Guru

I believe Husker was referring to changing your name with marriage not being a big deal. Agreed, changing it at a time other then marriage or during the divorce process can be a hassle

huskerbb · Guru

Divine Geek wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
JPT wrote:
Advice for those ladies who haven't yet married, do yourself an enormous favor and keep your birth name....
Why is that a "favor"?

I don't care--do it or don't--but it's not a big deal to change it if you want to, either.
Yes. It is.
To change your name? It's not really a big deal, it just adds to what you will need. But if you are good about keeping all your important documents, it's not a huge hassle.

The ONLY time my wife has ever needed any of that stuff was over 20 years ago when she first got her new SS card and new driver's license. She hasn't needed it since then.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
JPT wrote:
Advice for those ladies who haven't yet married, do yourself an enormous favor and keep your birth name....
Why is that a "favor"?

I don't care--do it or don't--but it's not a big deal to change it if you want to, either.
Yes. It is.

No, it isn't. You just put whatever name you want on your marriage license--and that's it. Take that with you ONE TIME when you get your new driver's license.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Divine Geek wrote:
Actually, I just moved to another state about a year ago. In order to get my license I needed: my current Indiana DL, my birth certificate, social security card ( could have used a passport for both of those, but mine is expired), and a piece of mail proving my residence in my current state (utility bill, bank statement, pay stub etc). I had all of those documents, I paid my $25, smiled pretty and got my new license.

About 6 months ago, I added my motorcycle endorsement. I gave them my current valid license, my card from the motorcycle class allowing the endorsement, paid $25, smiled pretty and got my new license.

A year before I left Indiana, I renewed my license. I went online, clicked renew, verified that no info had changed, put in my CC# and two weeks later my new license came in the mail.

I have plenty of experience this last year with the DMV, none of them have been cumbersome or even overly expensive.

Yup. No ID required to renew a DL here.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Divine Geek wrote:
I believe Husker was referring to changing your name with marriage not being a big deal. Agreed, changing it at a time other then marriage or during the divorce process can be a hassle

Yeah that wasn't hard. My marriage license and my ID was all I needed to change it when I got married.

And I really wish I hadn't.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
JPT wrote:
Advice for those ladies who haven't yet married, do yourself an enormous favor and keep your birth name....
Why is that a "favor"?

I don't care--do it or don't--but it's not a big deal to change it if you want to, either.
Yes. It is.

I've been married twice, so two name changes. Not a big deal.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
JPT wrote:
Advice for those ladies who haven't yet married, do yourself an enormous favor and keep your birth name....
Why is that a "favor"?

I don't care--do it or don't--but it's not a big deal to change it if you want to, either.
Yes. It is.
No, it isn't. You just put whatever name you want on your marriage license--and that's it. Take that with you ONE TIME when you get your new driver's license.

I am talking about changing your name. Not just when you get married.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
JPT wrote:
Advice for those ladies who haven't yet married, do yourself an enormous favor and keep your birth name....
Why is that a "favor"?

I don't care--do it or don't--but it's not a big deal to change it if you want to, either.
Yes. It is.
I've been married twice, so two name changes. Not a big deal.
flan

Well I wont be doing it again unless God sends me someone with a big plaid bow and flashing neon sign.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

To get a new DL here you need your birth certificate, proof of residency and your old ID or DL.

If I have had the same DL number since I started driving, shouldn't the DL be enough of an ID?

Divine Geek · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
To get a new DL here you need your birth certificate, proof of residency and your old ID or DL.

If I have had the same DL number since I started driving, shouldn't the DL be enough of an ID?

To just renew, all you need is your old DL here. If you are changing your address, you need proof of residency. I need my birth certificate when I moved states

JPT · Senior Member

huskerbb wrote:
JPT wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
I just never understand the arguments that voter ID laws are discriminatory. Adults in this country are supposed to have an ID.

I thought it was considered discriminatory because you have to pay for an ID and poor uneducated people don't have the means to get one.
Then make them free. Why not? We give away phones, an ID is nothing.
It's not the ID card itself that is the issue. It's the documentation you have to produce to obtain that ID that can run into serious dollars.

To comply with REAL ID, which makes a state issued DL or ID card acceptable for use in air travel, there has to be a legal paper trail for EVERY name you've had over the years. Men, usually not a problem, as they tend to have the same name over their lives. Women marry, divorce, remarry....often taking their husband's name in doing so. When that woman has to go for a renewal for her DL or ID, she needs not only a certified copy of her birth certificate, but cert copies of marriage license, divorce decree, marriage license....so you now are into 4 documents that aren't cheap anymore.
I had to get a certified copy of my marriage license from California. It took several weeks, and cost me $65. I can afford it. Multiply that, and then consider a woman who may be struggling along on low wages, and you can see that she might not be able to produce that ID in time at the polls.
I think there will be thousandfold more people disenfranchise than those attempting voter fraud.

Why didn't you keep the first one?

Or--just keep the first marriage, then you only have one change to worry about.

Um, the church certificate isn't accepted (I still have that), it has to be a certified copy of the license filed with the county.

Oh, and I do still have my first marriage, nearly 40 years, thank you very much.

Yeah, probably didn't need any of that stuff years ago when you got your license. But just wait...I'll just silently think "told you so" later on...

JPT · Senior Member

lilyofcourse wrote:
To get a new DL here you need your birth certificate, proof of residency and your old ID or DL.

If I have had the same DL number since I started driving, shouldn't the DL be enough of an ID?

Goggle Real ID...

coldean · Newbie

No not just anyone can walk into a place and vote..lol
My dh did not have his voters registration card with him during the 2008 presidential election. He seriously could not remember if he got his in the mail when I did or where he put it if he did.
So he told that to the women at the place we had to go to vote at.
She told him that he had to show his ID and could do a write in vote and his situation will be investigated.

Well sometime after the election he received a letter explaining that there was no record of his voters registration and that his vote did not count.

Now I don't have a problem with showing ID to vote. But the entire voters registration thing is silly.
In the first place the voters registration is the document that you show to prove that you are a citizen, since you have to show or renew your ID to get one.
So it's kind of like double taxing. Just do away with one or the other and I'll be happy.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

There is a lot of people around here with forged ID's. So I want those ID's checked and double checked.

Ohfour · Hooker

I renew my licence on line. Have for 15 years. I don't even look the same in my picture. And I have changed addresses and my name in those 15 years. I've done it all online of by mail...

coldean · Newbie

In Texas we can only renew our ID online every other time.
You cannot renew online every time.
I'm surprised that other states can do that. I agree that ID laws can be strengthened.

VoiceOfReason · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
I renew my licence on line. Have for 15 years. I don't even look the same in my picture. And I have changed addresses and my name in those 15 years. I've done it all online of by mail...

Wow! Fifteen years? That's really progressive. Many states just recently (like in the last 7-10 years) started allowing that. Since 1999?! Wow.

VoiceOfReason · Guru

I was unable to renew in both Wisconsin and Arizona. Had to march my happy ass in there in person. Of course in Arizona, your license is good until you're 75 years old. Mine expires in 2030.