TOTALLY GEEKED!

ed11563 · Guru

Family of 10-Year-Old Murder Suspect Doesn't Want Him Back

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

I guess my answer would depend on if he has any younger smaller siblings & if he is a threat to their safety.

ed11563 · Guru

Lexxy wrote:
I guess my answer would depend on if he has any younger smaller siblings & if he is a threat to their safety.

I think where ever he is, he won't mind killing more people. Anyone who annoys him will be at risk.

Empyreal · Senior Member

You have to wonder what came first in this situation? The chicken or the egg?

Maybe his parents have always been unloving towards him?

Fort Worth Mom · Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

If he were an adult, he would be held in jail until his trial.

I hate to say this, but I don't think I'd want him under my roof until the trial. What if he went off, and killed again?

I wouldn't want to be responsible for him. There is something, very wrong, with a 10 year old murderer.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

ed11563 wrote:
Lexxy wrote:
I guess my answer would depend on if he has any younger smaller siblings & if he is a threat to their safety.
I think where ever he is, he won't mind killing more people. Anyone who annoys him will be at risk.

I think you are correct. I just meant that as a 10yo boy he doesn't pose as much risk to a healthy adult but he is a risk to weaker or smaller people. I suppose he could escalate & move up to a gun or other weapon.

Lindley · Guru

This is a heartbreaking situation. I'm sure his parents are not up to dealing with someone who may pose a threat to the family and feel he may get help he needs in juvenile custody.

FNW · Guru

Empyreal wrote:
You have to wonder what came first in this situation? The chicken or the egg?

Maybe his parents have always been unloving towards him?

My thoughts exactly.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

FNW wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
You have to wonder what came first in this situation? The chicken or the egg?

Maybe his parents have always been unloving towards him?
My thoughts exactly.

Or he's a little sociopath and they did nothing wrong.

I can't blame them for not wanting a kid back in their home that beat one of their mothers to death.

Fort Worth Mom · Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

As usual, we're not given enough information to even guess at what his problem could be.

Are the parents together? Or divorced?

Does he have siblings?

What kind of student was he?

Did he have lots of friends, or was he a loner?

Has he ever shown any violent tendencies in the past?

Any medical problems?

Any mental problems?

The list could go on.

It's really had to give an opinion, with so much missing information.

JMHO.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

Lawyerlady wrote:
FNW wrote:
Empyreal wrote:
You have to wonder what came first in this situation? The chicken or the egg?

Maybe his parents have always been unloving towards him?
My thoughts exactly.
Or he's a little sociopath and they did nothing wrong.

I can't blame them for not wanting a kid back in their home that beat one of their mothers to death.

Exactly. Some people are just born that way. And sometimes nothing can be done to fix them.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

But certainly there were prior instances of bad behavior. Did the parents ignore them?

flan

Vette · Owl drink to that!

Given the nature of the crime, I would not want him back in my home.

However that's easy to say, probably not so easy to do if it was my actual child. So I don't judge these parents either way.

Squeakers · Regular

Fort Worth Mom wrote:
As usual, we're not given enough information to even guess at what his problem could be.
Are the parents together? Or divorced?
Does he have siblings?
What kind of student was he?
Did he have lots of friends, or was he a loner?
Has he ever shown any violent tendencies in the past?
Any medical problems?
Any mental problems?
The list could go on.
It's really had to give an opinion, with so much missing information.
JMHO.

None of that would matter to me. Who cares if he got an A in English class? He beat a bedridden woman to death for yelling at him And then lied about it.

Squeakers · Regular

He's a little sociopath. I don't care if it was just me and the kid and no one else at home. He would not be stepping foot in my home and I would not pay one red cent to get him out of jail.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

Squeakers wrote:
Fort Worth Mom wrote:
As usual, we're not given enough information to even guess at what his problem could be.
Are the parents together? Or divorced?
Does he have siblings?
What kind of student was he?
Did he have lots of friends, or was he a loner?
Has he ever shown any violent tendencies in the past?
Any medical problems?
Any mental problems?
The list could go on.
It's really had to give an opinion, with so much missing information.
JMHO.
None of that would matter to me. Who cares if he got an A in English class? He beat a bedridden woman to death for yelling at him And then lied about it.

Exactly, I keep trying to imagine exactly how gruesome it would be to beat somebody to death and I'm kind of getting sick over it.

Squeakers · Regular

Not only that.... But this wasn't a crime of passion. He didn't just snap and start beating her face in. He went and got her cane and used it to hold her down as he beat her.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

The only thing to me that would remotely begin to excuse this is if she was sexually abusing him his whole life or something

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

If there were other siblings , no I would not. I would visit him in detention or the mental health center or prison. But I would not want him within 100 miles of siblings.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

How are they " dumping " him? That's ridiculous. They said he was safe and comfortable where he was. And apparently they want to visit or they would not care that he is 90 miles away. Its a crappy attempt to try to villify the parents and make a story where there is none.

huskerbb · Guru

Reminds me of the book "Of Mice and Men"--except the killing here was deliberate.

I could hardly blame dad if he went all "George" on his son.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

There are times when a parent has done everything they know to do and the kid still does something like this.

How many times was he grounded? How many times did the parents seek help from doctors, law enforcement? How many nights did they sit up wondering if they could do more or if they had locked the bedroom door? It's always "where is this parent or that parent" but sometimes a parent can do everything and it still end up like this.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

This is the saddest story.

I understand that he killed someone, and the way he did it was pretty horrific. But he is still someone's baby boy. When his mother looks at him, she sees that baby boy well as the murderer in front of her. And holding both of those thoughts in her head at once has got to be the most painful thing she has ever done. I feel sorry for her. Being in a position to have to decide if my family was safer without one of my children home with us...I can't even imagine.

I hope he is sent to a place that can at least determine his psychological needs and begin to meet them. Whatever they are.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Well, you can assume that he had the crappiest parents in the world who mistreated him and didn't take care of him or didn't get him the help he needed. In that case do you really want to send him back to that environment? Or, these could be the best parents in the world and the kid is just a sociopath. That DOES happen. Many serial killers parents looked back, with hindsight-it being twenty twenty and all, and saw that there were signs there early on. They just didn't realize they were signs of a serial killer. And if he IS a sociopath do we really want to send him back where he can hurt more people? This kid is going to hurt someone else either way. And realistically, logically, you cannot supervise a child 24/7. Especially kids like this!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I think it would be hard to think your child is a killer at 10. Btw someone is not actually a killer until they kill.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

They may not be a "killer" because they haven't killed a human. Dahmers parents looked back at his childhood and said that many pets came up missing and they were constantly find woodland animals dead under their house. They didn't think anything of it at the time. They lived in a rural area and attributed it that. Now they have come to realize he was practicing his skills early on.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Well, you can assume that he had the crappiest parents in the world who mistreated him and didn't take care of him or didn't get him the help he needed. In that case do you really want to send him back to that environment? Or, these could be the best parents in the world and the kid is just a sociopath. That DOES happen. Many serial killers parents looked back, with hindsight-it being twenty twenty and all, and saw that there were signs there early on. They just didn't realize they were signs of a serial killer. And if he IS a sociopath do we really want to send him back where he can hurt more people? This kid is going to hurt someone else either way. And realistically, logically, you cannot supervise a child 24/7. Especially kids like this!

All of this. And there is no solution for the parents but to hope he is kept in prison. Again, I point out that we shut our asylums for the kids that are wrong in the head leaving no help for the parents. Sometimes, kids are just born bad, nothing to do with upbringing. Adam Lanza (the Sandyhook shooter) Parents split because the father knew the evil in his kid and the mother wouldn't give up on the kid. They had no outlet, no where they could put him unless he committed a crime. The father gave all the assets to the mother and moved out and supported them financially because she wanted to help him, father knew there was no help. What do we do with those kids, that can't be helped? We need to rebuild those asylums. Help those parents.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
They may not be a "killer" because they haven't killed a human. Dahmers parents looked back at his childhood and said that many pets came up missing and they were constantly find woodland animals dead under their house. They didn't think anything of it at the time. They lived in a rural area and attributed it that. Now they have come to realize he was practicing his skills early on.

Killing and torturing animals is a core characteristic of serial killers.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Is there any evidence he was doing that?

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Is there any evidence he was doing that?

Are you asking about THIS kid or Dahmer? With Dahmer yes. There was evidence. With this kid we don't know. They don't say. But it's something to look at. Has he hurt other smaller children? Played too rough with them? Hurt animals? Sometimes they don't kill them. Sometimes they just manhandle them.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

This kid. I know about Dahmer.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

He's 10. I doubt he has had much time to exhibit a lot of systems.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I just did some reading on this case. I learned some interesting things.

-- he is being held in the county jail. Effectively, in solitary confinement. He isn't getting services of any kind. He is allowed to color and play ( it doesn't say with what) and has no real concept of what is happening.

-- the woman didn't die instantly. The grandfather came into the room, spoke to her, noticed she was breathing heavily, asked her if she wanted to go to the hospital and she declined. An hour later he checked on her again and she was dead.

-- the mother said the boy has lied in the past ( what 10 year old hasn't ?) and that he has "mental issues". She didn't elaborate.

-- the boy has stated that he didn't want to kill the lady just hurt her. She had apparently been saying nasty things to him (no excuse for murder).

-- the woman is not related to anyone in the family. The grandfather is her caretaker not husband.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I don't know about THIS kid. It doesn't say. I read a really really sad book written by Jeffrey Dahmer's father. He donated every penny to the victims families. Every last cent. He said that they grew up really poor. That both he and his wife worked all the time to keep the bills paid. They loved their kids with all their hearts. He said the only thing he could see that they possibly did wrong was leave Jeffrey alone after school without supervision. But he also adds that back then in their neighborhood that was the norm. All the kids with working parents came home and stayed at home alone. There was no such thing as CPS. He said that when Jeffrey was about 4-5 family cats started coming up missing. They never found them. He said they lived in the country and just assumed they ran off or wild animals got them. And honestly, who here would just assume their five year old killed the cat when it came up missing. I would bet NO ONE. Later on they found dead wild animals under their house but they just always assumed they went under there to die or got dragged there by a dog or something. They had no idea that their son was doing it. He said they didn't have the knowledge about serial killers that we do now. And he's correct on that.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
He's 10. I doubt he has had much time to exhibit a lot of systems.

Serial killers and sociopaths are BORN that way. There is no "fixing" them. None. They show signs early on if you know what to look for. None of us would assume our kids are serial killers or sociopaths. One, because we don't want to, and two, because usually we don't recognize the signs.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

More people get mental health care in prison than in any other type of facility in the US -- including hospitals.

This is a HUGE problem.

The mother in the OP said she has tried to get him help and he was apparently on some type of antipsychotic meds (the side effects of which include increased aggravation and violence in children).

huskerbb · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
He's 10. I doubt he has had much time to exhibit a lot of systems.
Serial killers and sociopaths are BORN that way. There is no "fixing" them. None. They show signs early on if you know what to look for. None of us would assume our kids are serial killers or sociopaths. One, because we don't want to, and two, because usually we don't recognize the signs.

But truly, even if we did recognize the signs--what can be done? Before any crime has been committed, the options are virtually none.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Yes, that was my point. You aren't a Killer until you have actually killed. And, yeah, you can get counseling or whatever, but how to you really counsel a sociopath/psychopath that truly has no empathy towards others? Not sure you can do anything other than lock them away for life.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

huskerbb wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
He's 10. I doubt he has had much time to exhibit a lot of systems.
Serial killers and sociopaths are BORN that way. There is no "fixing" them. None. They show signs early on if you know what to look for. None of us would assume our kids are serial killers or sociopaths. One, because we don't want to, and two, because usually we don't recognize the signs.
But truly, even if we did recognize the signs--what can be done? Before any crime has been committed, the options are virtually none.

Which is why society needs to give options to parents who recognize they have such a child, give them an institution the kids can be locked into with cameras and 24 hour care and security. Once they become adults, nothing can be done until they commit a crime.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
This kid. I know about Dahmer.

But do you know dulmer...?

flan

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
This kid. I know about Dahmer.
But do you know dulmer...?
flan

What Flan? Dahmer is the correct spelling of the name. What are you talking about?

ed11563 · Guru

Dulmer was a poster on the MM board.

-- Edited by ed11563 on Saturday 1st of November 2014 09:44:47 PM

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

ed11563 wrote:
Dulmer was a troll / stalker on the MM board.

Ok, so why is that relevant to this thread?

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

What does dulmer from MM have to do with this thread and why are people bringing them up? I was talking about DAHMER. Jeffrey DAHMER the serial killer. Killed a bunch of boys and ate them. GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND.

huskerbb · Guru

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
He's 10. I doubt he has had much time to exhibit a lot of systems.
Serial killers and sociopaths are BORN that way. There is no "fixing" them. None. They show signs early on if you know what to look for. None of us would assume our kids are serial killers or sociopaths. One, because we don't want to, and two, because usually we don't recognize the signs.
But truly, even if we did recognize the signs--what can be done? Before any crime has been committed, the options are virtually none.
Which is why society needs to give options to parents who recognize they have such a child, give them an institution the kids can be locked into with cameras and 24 hour care and security. Once they become adults, nothing can be done until they commit a crime.

But why should we be able to lock kids up if they haven't committed a crime? Just because we think they "might" do so?

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

If they are showing signs of things to come they need help husker. Killing small animals is not normal. And yes, they need to be institutionalized WITH HELP to see if they can change. Can they change? Who knows. But if they're already killing animals they're not going to stop.

huskerbb · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
If they are showing signs of things to come they need help husker. Killing small animals is not normal. And yes, they need to be institutionalized WITH HELP to see if they can change. Can they change? Who knows. But if they're already killing animals they're not going to stop.

I realize they need help--but locking someone away is not going to be a solution if they have committed no crime.

There is ZERO evidence this kid was killing small animals, either. At least nothing that I have read has indicated that.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

huskerbb wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
If they are showing signs of things to come they need help husker. Killing small animals is not normal. And yes, they need to be institutionalized WITH HELP to see if they can change. Can they change? Who knows. But if they're already killing animals they're not going to stop.
I realize they need help--but locking someone away is not going to be a solution if they have committed no crime.

There is ZERO evidence this kid was killing small animals, either. At least nothing that I have read has indicated that.

Keeps the rest of society safe from them. When a child is diagnosed and recognized as having the type of issues that frighten even their parents, then yes, they should be locked away. It isn't hard to know when a kid is a bad seed,

huskerbb · Guru

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
If they are showing signs of things to come they need help husker. Killing small animals is not normal. And yes, they need to be institutionalized WITH HELP to see if they can change. Can they change? Who knows. But if they're already killing animals they're not going to stop.
I realize they need help--but locking someone away is not going to be a solution if they have committed no crime.

There is ZERO evidence this kid was killing small animals, either. At least nothing that I have read has indicated that.
Keeps the rest of society safe from them. When a child is diagnosed and recognized as having the type of issues that frighten even their parents, then yes, they should be locked away. It isn't hard to know when a kid is a bad seed,

But chances are, they will likely be MORE dangerous when they are an adult, anyway.

We just can't lock people up because we think they "might" do something.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

huskerbb wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
If they are showing signs of things to come they need help husker. Killing small animals is not normal. And yes, they need to be institutionalized WITH HELP to see if they can change. Can they change? Who knows. But if they're already killing animals they're not going to stop.
I realize they need help--but locking someone away is not going to be a solution if they have committed no crime.

There is ZERO evidence this kid was killing small animals, either. At least nothing that I have read has indicated that.

I didn't say THIS kid was. But he's a danger. He needs to be kept locked up. And if A KID, ANY KID, shows signs ahead of time then we do need to lock them up until they are cleared to live in society without killing.

TOTALLY GEEKED!

Crime: Horrifying

Family of 10-Year-Old Murder Suspect Doesn't Want Him Back