TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I'm conservative, Christian, and pro-life - and this is all DISGUSTING.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I do not like the generalization of this article that all REPUBLICANS would want this. I'm as Republican as they come, and this stories scare me.

Ohfour · Hooker

Absolutely horrible. I lean to the right of Ann Coulter, and I don't know any Republicans that would support this.

FNW · Guru

This whole article sounds like a leftist scare tactic, much like the "war on women" scheme. I'm not buying any of it or if any of it did occur, there's more to the stories than what they are reporting.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Ohfour wrote:
Absolutely horrible. I lean to the right of Ann Coulter, and I don't know any Republicans that would support this.

At least you're way prettier than she is...LOL

flan

NAOW · Vette's SS

That is frightening.

I hope you're right FNW.

ed11563 · Guru

FNW wrote:
This whole article sounds like a leftist scare tactic, much like the "war on women" scheme. I'm not buying any of it or if any of it did occur, there's more to the stories than what they are reporting.

How can we find out?

ed11563 · Guru

I forwarded the link to Snopes. com . I hope they can either confirm or refute this.

cadiver · Senior Member

I have read some of the personhood laws, which have been supported on both sides. The idea being to make it an additional crime with the death of a fetus. Some cases were case as a double murder or there was a DWI that resulted in the death of a fetus. Some states have a period of time some life is at conception.

The number of cases I doubt, the only one I looked up was WASH DC. Looks like it was Angela Carter 1989, before most personhood laws. Dying of cancer and 25 weeks pregnant she was going to go under treatment so she could last until 28 weeks. They found treatments would not work, so she opted for pain meds until she would die. She was then ordered to have the cersarean where the baby died and 48 hours she died.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

I'm waiting for the ban on male masturbation. Death of potential life thru wastefulness of useful sperm..

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

This was published in the NY Times. I realize the media is liberal, but I certainly hope the Times would be a little better than such blatent yellow journalism.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

cadiver wrote:
I have read some of the personhood laws, which have been supported on both sides. The idea being to make it an additional crime with the death of a fetus. Some cases were case as a double murder or there was a DWI that resulted in the death of a fetus. Some states have a period of time some life is at conception.

The number of cases I doubt, the only one I looked up was WASH DC. Looks like it was Angela Carter 1989, before most personhood laws. Dying of cancer and 25 weeks pregnant she was going to go under treatment so she could last until 28 weeks. They found treatments would not work, so she opted for pain meds until she would die. She was then ordered to have the cersarean where the baby died and 48 hours she died.

There are all sorts of problems with this. I understand why the judge ordered it, but the judge was playing God. They could likely have kept her alive on machines longer. While the pain meds MAY have hurt the baby - forcing delivery at 25 weeks seems much riskier.

FNW · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
This was published in the NY Times. I realize the media is liberal, but I certainly hope the Times would be a little better than such blatent yellow journalism.

I don't hold my breath when it comes to anything the liberal media spews, and only some of what the conservative media reports, for that matter. Why? Because I've been on the "giving" end of news and have seen how it is skewed.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I think Ann Coulter is gorgeous. She reminds me of a blond version of Vette. I have her book but haven't read it. DH hates her. I haven't listened to her in a long time so I am not even sure what she stands for anymore.

I try to stay away from abortion threads so that's really all I have to add.

cadiver · Senior Member

Lawyerlady wrote:
cadiver wrote:
I have read some of the personhood laws, which have been supported on both sides. The idea being to make it an additional crime with the death of a fetus. Some cases were case as a double murder or there was a DWI that resulted in the death of a fetus. Some states have a period of time some life is at conception.

The number of cases I doubt, the only one I looked up was WASH DC. Looks like it was Angela Carter 1989, before most personhood laws. Dying of cancer and 25 weeks pregnant she was going to go under treatment so she could last until 28 weeks. They found treatments would not work, so she opted for pain meds until she would die. She was then ordered to have the cersarean where the baby died and 48 hours she died.

There are all sorts of problems with this. I understand why the judge ordered it, but the judge was playing God. They could likely have kept her alive on machines longer. While the pain meds MAY have hurt the baby - forcing delivery at 25 weeks seems much riskier.

I have a problem of any forced care. This one seemed worse an example in the study.

Laura Pemberston, Florida, was in active labor. Since she had a cesarean before her doctors wanted her to have another. The sherif took her into custody and brought her to the hospital. A quick hearing was held in order to protect the fetus, where she did not have consoul but could express her views. Then was forced with a cesarean.

http://jhppl.dukejournals.org/content/38/2/299.full.pdf+html?sid=b0811f36-d4e4-4b51-a830-e175e6eee40c%20%20For%20those%20cases%20that%20are%20not%20mentioned%20in%20the%20article%20-what%20do%20you%20need?

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Didn't we have a discussion on that lady here? And she had had several c-sections already?

ed11563 · Guru

just Czech wrote:
I'm waiting for the ban on male masturbation. Death of potential life thru wastefulness of useful sperm..

Isn't this already considered a sin?

cadiver · Senior Member

just Czech wrote:
I'm waiting for the ban on male masturbation. Death of potential life thru wastefulness of useful sperm..

Well in the TX sodomy case Scalia dissent questioned if we cannot have laws based on morals we would not be able to have laws against prostitution, adult incest, masturbation and fornication.

ed11563 · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Didn't we have a discussion on that lady here? And she had had several c-sections already?

She'd had one c-section. After this forced c-section she went on to deliver 3 more babies vaginally.

The article published by Duke University is long, but very well written, and discussed a lot of cases.

ed11563 · Guru

cadiver wrote:
just Czech wrote:
I'm waiting for the ban on male masturbation. Death of potential life thru wastefulness of useful sperm..
Well in the TX sodomy case Scalia dissent questioned if we cannot have laws based on morals we would not be able to have laws against prostitution, adult incest, masturbation and fornication.

We shouldn't have laws prohibiting any of those, when only involving consenting adults.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

ed11563 wrote:
cadiver wrote:
just Czech wrote:
I'm waiting for the ban on male masturbation. Death of potential life thru wastefulness of useful sperm..
Well in the TX sodomy case Scalia dissent questioned if we cannot have laws based on morals we would not be able to have laws against prostitution, adult incest, masturbation and fornication.
We shouldn't have laws prohibiting any of those, when only involving consenting adults.

Adult incest? Are you crazy?

You do know why incest is bad, right?

-- Edited by Lawyerlady on Wednesday 12th of November 2014 05:10:17 PM

PotteryChick · Member

How do I spoiler something?

cadiver · Senior Member

PotteryChick wrote:
How do I spoiler something?

Like this.

Spoiler

You have to use adavnced editor, highlight, then use the spoil button, next to the YouTube button.

Bet you thought I was just going to spoiler anything but the instructions.

PotteryChick · Member

just Czech wrote:
I'm waiting for the ban on male masturbation. Death of potential life thru wastefulness of useful sperm..

This is NOT safe for work or for those who are offended by sexy fun times and this is not statement about my position on abortion. This is risky.

-- Edited by PotteryChick on Wednesday 12th of November 2014 05:55:19 PM

-- Edited by PotteryChick on Wednesday 12th of November 2014 05:56:22 PM

PotteryChick · Member

Great good it did to spoiler it. I fail at technology.

PotteryChick · Member

cadiver wrote:
PotteryChick wrote:
How do I spoiler something?
Like this.
Spoiler

You have to use adavnced editor, highlight, then use the spoil button, next to the YouTube button.

Bet you thought I was just going to spoiler anything but the instructions.

Thank you! Now how do I get rid of the attachment image. The one that defeats the purpose of spoiling?

huskerbb · Guru

Some of these--actually, a LOT of these--have absolutely NOTHING to do with abortion or abortion rights.

They are being lumped into that category by disingenuous fear-mongers on the left.

PotteryChick · Member

I couldn't leave it up. Too inappropriate for my comfort.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lawyerlady wrote:
This was published in the NY Times. I realize the media is liberal, but I certainly hope the Times would be a little better than such blatent yellow journalism.

the times????? OMG their agenda is so left it's scary. This is just more BS to scare people and as a punishment for the success of the mid term elections.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Are there any links to these cases?

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

Hey - you actually DID start an abortion thread! I kinda thought you were kidding!

ed11563 · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Are there any links to these cases?

Follow this link to the study published by Duke University Press. They looked up the cases in Westlaw.

http://jhppl.dukejournals.org/content/38/2/299.full.pdf+html?sid=b0811f36-d4e4-4b51-a830-e175e6eee40c%20%20For%20those%20cases%20that%20are%20not%20mentioned%20in%20the%20article%20-what%20do%20you%20need?

ed11563 · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:

Adult incest? Are you crazy?
You do know why incest is bad, right?

-- Edited by Lawyerlady on Wednesday 12th of November 2014 05:10:17 PM

Spouse was eight years old, thus not an adult.

There is a possibility that incestuous sex could produce children who have defective genes, if both parents have the same defect.

However, this is rare, even in communities (or in tribes in other parts of the world) where most relationships are with cousins, because there's no one else around.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Incest is bad because it is morally wrong Not just because of some potential fetal defects

ed11563 · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Incest is bad because it is morally wrong Not just because of some potential fetal defects

Morals? Different people have different morals. Religions may proscribe it, but many people care more about hormones.

and access.

Blankie · Guru

just Czech wrote:
I'm waiting for the ban on male masturbation. Death of potential life thru wastefulness of useful sperm..

LOL Czech! Every time a guy does it he can be charged with the murder of millions!

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Incest is bad because it is morally wrong Not just because of some potential fetal defects

It's bad because of both. Siblings having babies can create children with birth defects that society then has to care for.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Cousins are not considered incest.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

Anyone sharing DNA should not reproduce IMO.

FNW · Guru

It used to be that blood tests were required to get married. At least they were in California. To rule out blood relationship and also to check for the measles.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

FNW wrote:
It used to be that blood tests were required to get married. At least they were in California. To rule out blood relationship and also to check for the measles.

Blood tests do not rule out relationship, you need DNA tests for that. The blood test was originally for diseases like syphillis and for the RH negative factor because it used to be that having a baby with the wrong RH factor could kill you. That is not the case anymore for the RH factor, but they still use it to check for disease, including HIV.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

I had to have a blood test. But my ex didn't. Totally unfair!
Oh, and my ex's cousin had to do genetic testing because she married a man from the same town with the same last name.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I simply can't get behind incest even if they are both adults. That's just repugnant to me.

FNW · Guru

Back in the day when I had to have a blood test, there was no such thing as DNA.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Incest is bad because it is morally wrong Not just because of some potential fetal defects
It's bad because of both. Siblings having babies can create children with birth defects that society then has to care for.

In reality, it is birth defects are rare, even under those circumstances. That is why my point is that you need to make the MORAL argument, not the Statistics one because it won't hold up. What if they say, oh we aren't having kids or whatever? See my point?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

ed11563 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Incest is bad because it is morally wrong Not just because of some potential fetal defects
Morals? Different people have different morals. Religions may proscribe it, but many people care more about hormones.
and access.

No, not really. Morals are pretty standard across humanity. Things like murder, torture, harming children, etc. Yeah, there are deviants and deviant societies but for the most part, the morals of mankind are pretty much in agreement even though portions of mankind act contrary.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Incest is bad because it is morally wrong Not just because of some potential fetal defects
It's bad because of both. Siblings having babies can create children with birth defects that society then has to care for.
In reality, it is birth defects are rare, even under those circumstances. That is why my point is that you need to make the MORAL argument, not the Statistics one because it won't hold up. What if they say, oh we aren't having kids or whatever? See my point?

I do see your point. But birth defects are rare because the case of siblings having children are also low. The more interbred you become - the worse it would become. The domino effect. Siblings that were born of siblings then having a child is extremely rare - but if it was not taboo, it could happen more. And then the birth defects would increase.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Incest is bad because it is morally wrong Not just because of some potential fetal defects
It's bad because of both. Siblings having babies can create children with birth defects that society then has to care for.
In reality, it is birth defects are rare, even under those circumstances. That is why my point is that you need to make the MORAL argument, not the Statistics one because it won't hold up. What if they say, oh we aren't having kids or whatever? See my point?
I do see your point. But birth defects are rare because the case of siblings having children are also low. The more interbred you become - the worse it would become. The domino effect. Siblings that were born of siblings then having a child is extremely rare - but if it was not taboo, it could happen more. And then the birth defects would increase.

I know. I am just saying that you aren't really going to win the debate solely on that.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

I can't believe that an unborn baby could ever be viewed as more important than the person carrying it.
Horrific. And people wonder why I am pro choice. . .

WYSIWYG · Guru

"Incest is bad because it is morally wrong Not just because of some potential fetal defects" - Lady Gaga Snerd

While I agree with you in the belief that it's immoral. It being immoral is not the belief of everyone. That's why I would never argue immorality as a reason to disallow it. I would stick with the science.