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Foreskin: Keep or Cut?

New CDC guidelines hint at the cultural tension surrounding male circumcision in America.
 

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The foreskin is "like some of the evil genii or sprites in the Arabian tales," wrote the physician Peter Charles Remondino in his 1891 book, History of Circumcision from the Earliest Times to the Present. Left intact, he warned, it can affect men "with all kinds of physical distortions and ailments, nocturnal pollutions, and other conditions calculated to weaken him physically, mentally, and morally; to land him, perchance, in the jail, or even in a lunatic asylum."

Oh, the uncircumcised penis, that driver of insanity and moral disarray. In the last century and a half of American history, many claims have been made about the effects of keeping or removing one's foreskin, both passionately in favor of and passionately against it. In the medical community, the question has always been whether the potential benefits of the procedure outweigh any possible risks.

This week, in a report free of references to jails or lunatic asylums, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said research on circumcision points toward a lot of potential benefits and not a lot of risks, beyond "minor bleeding and inflammation." The report suggests that circumcision might reduce the rate of transmission of some diseases, including HIV, because germs can get trapped under an intact foreskin. But it also hints at the cultural tensions surrounding the procedure.

Circumcision is a religious ritual in certain faiths, including Judaism and Islam. Historically, this has been an important marker of identity, said Shaye Cohen, a Jewish studies professor at Harvard who has written on cultural interpretations of circumcision. "Many Jews see circumcision as an essential marker of Jewishness," he said.


Related Story

The Circumcision Wars: What's a Parent to Do?


In the book of Genesis, God commands Abraham to become circumcised, and to have all of his sons and members of his household circumcised as well. This is part of his covenant with the Jews; God warns that "any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people."

"Even if Jews don’t observe anything else, they see [rejecting circumcision] as akin to rejecting Judaism," Cohen said.

In Islam, the ritual is slightly different; it's not in the Quran, and there are conflicting interpretations of Muslims' responsibility to get circumcised. But it's still an ingrained part of the faith; Muslims are the largest group that practices male circumcision in the world.

But outside of these minority faith communities, religion probably hasn't shaped American cultural views on circumcision. In the New Testament, circumcision isn't seen as necessary for salvation: "If you be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing," Paul says in Galatians.

Yet for Christians in America, this probably didn't shape their views on circumcision, said Cohen. "The original medical establishment that saw the benefits of circumcision was not a Jewish one—it was WASP-y," or white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant. As the procedure became more popular and common during the late 19th century and into the first part of the 20th, he said, "I don't think Christians worried about the fact that they're somehow defying what Paul said in the New Testament."

For most people, removing the foreskin was a strictly medical decision, even if it did have slight moral overtones. “A circumcised penis was seen as healthier, neater, cleaner—and that it would inhibit male masturbation. There was a terror of masturbation in American society," Cohen said.

According to Cohen, American circumcision hit its peak during the mid-20th century, partly coaxed along by the influence of the United States military. In his book On Circumcision, a doctor named Ed Schoen describes an anecdote from an American veteran who served in the navy during World War II. Upon their arrival at boot camp, new recruits were lined up and asked, "Are there any Jews in the group?"

My friend was shocked. He thought that Hitler might have won the war and, as a Jew, he was going to be sent to a concentration camp. ... Far from being interned, this group was told to go to the recreation area, enjoy themselves and report back to the barracks in an hour.

The other inductees were told to drop their pants in preparation for an inspection of their genitals by a navy medic, a "short arm inspection." The medic went down the line checking the circumcision status of the young men ... and asking the uncircumcised men to retract the foreskin. Those with an unretractable or tight foreskin were sent to the infirmary to be circumcised.

"The U.S. army in World War II wanted men to be circumcised ... it was thought to reduce inflammation and masturbation," Cohen said. "That's the moment when circumcision became well-nigh universal among the white citizenry."  

 

But starting in the mid 1980s, a small number of groups began voicing their opposition, including the National Organization of Circumcision Information Resource Centers. Over time, arguments against the procedure have taken roughly three forms, Cohen said.

"On the medical side, there's a growing movement to try and cut back on procedures: Why do we perform surgery on a child who has no symptoms whatsoever?" he said. Those who call themselves "intactivists" advocate a similar idea: There's nothing wrong with male bodies as they're made by nature, and they should be left "intact."

But the most common argument, Cohen said, is about human rights. Some people argue that "we don't have the right to mutilate our children—if an adult wants to get circumcised, that's fine, but the child is not an adult."

Religion hasn't shaped American cultural views on circumcision outside of the Muslim and Jewish communities.

This is an argument against infant circumcision, which is practiced in Jewish and Muslim communities and is the most common form of circumcision in American hospitals. The CDC's newly proposed recommendations  hint at some of these human rights concerns.

"Circumcision is simpler, safer, and less expensive for newborns and infants than for adult males," the guidelines say. "However, delaying circumcision until adolescence or adulthood enables the male to participate in—or make—the decision."

And on the medical side, the report says, the research is pretty clear: There are a lot of benefits to being circumcised, with few risks.

For men who have sex with women, being circumcised lowers the risk of contracting HIV from an infected partner by 50 to 60 percent; reduces the chance of contracting genital herpes by 30 to 45 percent; and lowers the risk of infection from cancer-causing strains of human papillomavirus (HPV) by about 30 percent.  

For women who have sex with men, the risk of getting HIV isn't necessarily lower if he's circumcised, but the chances of contracting bacterial vaginosis or trichomoniasis or developing HPV infections or cervical cancer are lower.

Among circumcised baby boys, urinary tract infections are less common. Also, just in case you were wondering: "Adult men who undergo circumcision generally report minimal or no change in sexual satisfaction or function."

For now, these findings are most relevant to people outside of the gay community; the risk of contracting HIV and sexually transmitted infections has not been proven to be lower among circumcised men who have anal sex with other men. As the CDC points out, circumcision may have important health benefits for some individuals, but it won't be a panacea for the transmission of HIV. This is because the major routes of transmission are sex between two men, or from a male partner to a female partner, and circumcision hasn't been shown to decrease transmission among these groups.

And ultimately, the organization says, cutting off your foreskin—or that of your child—isn't just a medical decision; it's a personal choice. And this shapes its final recommendation for patients:

"The decision regarding circumcision should be made in consultation with a health care provider, taking into account personal, cultural, religious and ethical beliefs."

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/12/foreskin-keep-or-cut/383362/?single_page=true

 



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My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

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I had my boys cut. It wasn't even really a thought. I knew I would have it done.

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Thanks for posting this.



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Evil genii!

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TrudyML wrote:

Evil genii!


 ?

 



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ed11563 wrote:
TrudyML wrote:

Evil genii!


 ?

 


 It's in the first sentence of the article.



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I think circumcision is an insult to God's perfect design of the male body.

If God had meant the male body to be made without a foreskin, He/She would have made it so.

I understand the supposed health reasons for it, but I still think it's rather barbaric.



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Blankie wrote:

I think circumcision is an insult to God's perfect design of the male body.

If God had meant the male body to be made without a foreskin, He/She would have made it so.

I understand the supposed health reasons for it, but I still think it's rather barbaric.


God is the reason circumcision started in the first place.  He commanded His followers to be circumcised... 

 

The Covenant of Circumcision

17 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, “I am God Almighty[a]; walk before me faithfully and be blameless. Then I will make my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers.”

Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. No longer will you be called Abram[b]; your name will be Abraham,[c] for I have made you a father of many nations. I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”

Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. 13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”



-- Edited by Ohfour on Friday 5th of December 2014 03:36:37 PM

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I have to say my preference is no foreskin but then again I'm not the one getting cut...lol

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I let DH decide. Both boys were snipped.

flan



-- Edited by flan327 on Friday 5th of December 2014 04:30:15 PM

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Itty bitty's Grammy

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TrudyML wrote:

Evil genii!


 You forgot this gem:

the uncircumcised penis, that driver of insanity and moral disarray

flan



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flan327 wrote:

I let DH decided. Both boys were snipped.

flan


 THat's what I would do too. I think DH would decide the same.



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NAOW wrote:
flan327 wrote:

I let DH decided. Both boys were snipped.

flan


 THat's what I would do too. I think DH would decide the same.


 I think it's normal for a father to want his sons to look like him...down there.

flan



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Why? I mean who cares really? I had my sons done but if I had a do over, I wouldn't do it now.

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I don't think it is a big deal. It's one of those things that the child never remembers and have nothing to reference any thing else with.

I would do it again without a second thought.

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"Outside of these minority faith communities" - Well, perhaps minority in the US, but not in many places in the world.
Although I will go on to say religion as a whole has probably not influenced circumcision that much in the US. Although I am circumcised, but not sure just what the reason was; seems most guys my age are - regardless of religion or lack thereof.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Why? I mean who cares really? I had my sons done but if I had a do over, I wouldn't do it now.


 I care. I have to say I've seen both and I prefer the snipped version...lol. Luckily I fell in love and married a circumcised guy.



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I just don't see the point of it. It is purely a cosmetic surgery. Oh yeah, the medical community will try to make their case with statistics, blah, blah. But there is no other body part we routinely lop off as a preventive measure across the board. So, I think it is completely and medically unnecessary. But, if you are doing it for cosmetic or religious reasons or just personal preference, then as long as you understand why you are doing it, then fine. But we need to stop pretending that it some insurmountable burden to teach a boy to take care of his uncircumcised penis. They seem to managing across the globe just fine.

And, yes there medical indications to do a circumcision. But, I don't believe it should be done preventively under the PRETENSE of good medicine. It's cosmetic.

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We went with "wash, don't amputate"

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I wouldn't do it again, but knowing the teenager my son is I am glad I did. He would never have kept clean.

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I wouldn't have married a man that was not cut. That **** grosses me out...

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Blankie wrote:

I think circumcision is an insult to God's perfect design of the male body.

If God had meant the male body to be made without a foreskin, He/She would have made it so.

I understand the supposed health reasons for it, but I still think it's rather barbaric.


That is a flat out ridiculous statement.  God commanded circumcision all throughout the Old Testament.  If it was an "insult" to him--he wouldn't have commanded it.  Do you even read the Bible?  



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

I just don't see the point of it. It is purely a cosmetic surgery. Oh yeah, the medical community will try to make their case with statistics, blah, blah. But there is no other body part we routinely lop off as a preventive measure across the board. So, I think it is completely and medically unnecessary. But, if you are doing it for cosmetic or religious reasons or just personal preference, then as long as you understand why you are doing it, then fine. But we need to stop pretending that it some insurmountable burden to teach a boy to take care of his uncircumcised penis. They seem to managing across the globe just fine.

And, yes there medical indications to do a circumcision. But, I don't believe it should be done preventively under the PRETENSE of good medicine. It's cosmetic.


 People with MUCH more education and knowledge on the subject than you disagree. 



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Vette's SS!!

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I find both equally fun to play with.


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Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

I find both equally fun to play with.


 YOU BRAZEN HUSSY!!!!!

flan



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huskerbb wrote:
Blankie wrote:

I think circumcision is an insult to God's perfect design of the male body.

If God had meant the male body to be made without a foreskin, He/She would have made it so.

I understand the supposed health reasons for it, but I still think it's rather barbaric.


That is a flat out ridiculous statement.  God commanded circumcision all throughout the Old Testament.  If it was an "insult" to him--he wouldn't have commanded it.  Do you even read the Bible?  


 But, if you claim that God created man, why give him a foreskin and then COMMAND his male followers to cut it off?

flan



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Nothing's Impossible

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My ex wasn't circumcised. No biggie. It was never a problem. We get a man in the operating room every blue moon who isn't cut and has issues. Probably get an equal amout with some type of funk who are cut.

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huskerbb wrote:
Blankie wrote:

I think circumcision is an insult to God's perfect design of the male body.

If God had meant the male body to be made without a foreskin, He/She would have made it so.

I understand the supposed health reasons for it, but I still think it's rather barbaric.


That is a flat out ridiculous statement.  God commanded circumcision all throughout the Old Testament.  If it was an "insult" to him--he wouldn't have commanded it.  Do you even read the Bible?  


 Old testament also tells you not to cut your hair or trim your beard. Or not to eat pork..



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Circumcision was a sign of the followers. It was a covenant between God and His people.

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"But, if you claim that God created man, why give him a foreskin and then COMMAND his male followers to cut it off?" - flan327

If you believe in the infallibility of God, then it's likely that he planned it that way. While God was on the beach creating Adam, he thought to himself: "Centuries from now, I'm going to command my faithful to prove themselves by cutting off the tip of their masculine part. I'd better put on on Adam, and make it so all his male descendants get one, so it's there when the time comes to command it be cut off."

That's my only guess.

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Circumcised my son. I let DH decide. I read all the articles and think there are good arguments for both sides.

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flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Blankie wrote:

I think circumcision is an insult to God's perfect design of the male body.

If God had meant the male body to be made without a foreskin, He/She would have made it so.

I understand the supposed health reasons for it, but I still think it's rather barbaric.


That is a flat out ridiculous statement.  God commanded circumcision all throughout the Old Testament.  If it was an "insult" to him--he wouldn't have commanded it.  Do you even read the Bible?  


 But, if you claim that God created man, why give him a foreskin and then COMMAND his male followers to cut it off?

flan


 To show faith and allegiance.  This was Old Testament.  He also demanded burnt sacrifices, and many other displays of worship.  HOWEVER, he then, out of love, sent his son to cleanse us and now we are saved without such shows of fealty.



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

I just don't see the point of it. It is purely a cosmetic surgery. Oh yeah, the medical community will try to make their case with statistics, blah, blah. But there is no other body part we routinely lop off as a preventive measure across the board. So, I think it is completely and medically unnecessary. But, if you are doing it for cosmetic or religious reasons or just personal preference, then as long as you understand why you are doing it, then fine. But we need to stop pretending that it some insurmountable burden to teach a boy to take care of his uncircumcised penis. They seem to managing across the globe just fine.

And, yes there medical indications to do a circumcision. But, I don't believe it should be done preventively under the PRETENSE of good medicine. It's cosmetic.


 There are plenty of reasons to have it done - it is not PRETENSE. 



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It's not good medicine. Unless you think we should lop off the breasts of all newborn females? It's nonsensical and the medical community won't say so because anything that is a billable procedure is good for them.

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But, as I said if you choose to do so for a cosmetic reason or religious reason, then go ahead.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

It's not good medicine. Unless you think we should lop off the breasts of all newborn females? It's nonsensical and the medical community won't say so because anything that is a billable procedure is good for them.


 There are quite a few doctors who disagree with you. 



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flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Blankie wrote:

I think circumcision is an insult to God's perfect design of the male body.

If God had meant the male body to be made without a foreskin, He/She would have made it so.

I understand the supposed health reasons for it, but I still think it's rather barbaric.


That is a flat out ridiculous statement.  God commanded circumcision all throughout the Old Testament.  If it was an "insult" to him--he wouldn't have commanded it.  Do you even read the Bible?  


 But, if you claim that God created man, why give him a foreskin and then COMMAND his male followers to cut it off?

flan


That was part of the covenant between God and his people before the Messiah.  



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

It's not good medicine. Unless you think we should lop off the breasts of all newborn females? It's nonsensical and the medical community won't say so because anything that is a billable procedure is good for them.


LOL!!!!   People who are actually, like doctors and other people that KNOW something about medicine say it is.  



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Southern_Belle wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Blankie wrote:

I think circumcision is an insult to God's perfect design of the male body.

If God had meant the male body to be made without a foreskin, He/She would have made it so.

I understand the supposed health reasons for it, but I still think it's rather barbaric.


That is a flat out ridiculous statement.  God commanded circumcision all throughout the Old Testament.  If it was an "insult" to him--he wouldn't have commanded it.  Do you even read the Bible?  


 Old testament also tells you not to cut your hair or trim your beard. Or not to eat pork..


So?  The question isnt' biblically whether or not we are supposed to do it now.  The statement was that it was an "insult" to God's design--which clearly it was NOT.   



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Most of the men in the world manage their penises just find without circumcision. It's a hold over of Judeo Christian Tradition. I am not Jewish, there fore, there was really very little reason to have it done other than overinflated medical statistics trying to keep justifying a lucrative and unnecessary procedure.

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Some insurance policies no longer cover newborn circumcision. We are seeing a few less, not many since most our patients are on medicaid.

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And, the vast majority of them manage to live out their lives without having an emergency circumcision. Yeah, there are potential issues with uncircumcised but there are also potential risks to having it done as well.

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Nothing's Impossible

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EXH is 50 and he's never had issues. It's a matter of hygiene.

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If people want to do it then fine. My point is to clearly understand WHY you are doing it and not be swayed by overblown "medical' statistics.

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Am I the only one who winces every time I see the name of this thread?  And I'm not even a man...

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Doesn't bother me, lol.

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I see worse...

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While I am here... may as well comment.

I'm glad my parents "cut" me when I was an infant, it's a pain I'll never remember, and a procedure I now 100% won't ever need as an adult.

If the "cut" is going to be made, it NEEDS to be done in infancy.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Most of the men in the world manage their penises just find without circumcision. It's a hold over of Judeo Christian Tradition. I am not Jewish, there fore, there was really very little reason to have it done other than overinflated medical statistics trying to keep justifying a lucrative and unnecessary procedure.


Again, people who actually have some knowledge on the subject and aren't just blowing their own horns disagree with you.   



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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

If people want to do it then fine. My point is to clearly understand WHY you are doing it and not be swayed by overblown "medical' statistics.


 For some people, the medical statistics are part of the reason they do it.  It's important for people to weigh ALL the pros and cons, so why you would advocate ignoring the MEDICAL aspects is completely beyond me and says this is an emotional argument for you and not a logical one.



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