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Post Info TOPIC: Jahi McMath's Brain Death: On Machines One Year Later


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Jahi McMath's Brain Death: On Machines One Year Later
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Jahi McMath's Brain Death: On Machines One Year Later

 

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A year ago, 13-year-old Jahi McMath underwent a tonsillectomy and tissue removal at Children's Hospital in Oakland, California, to treat sleep apnea. The girl suffered massive bleeding, had a heart attack and was declared brain dead Dec. 12.

Her family battled to keep her on a ventilator and to have breathing and feeding tubes surgically inserted. Under a court agreement, the family and the hospital agreed that Jahi's mother, Nailah Winkfield, could remove her from the hospital if she took responsibility for the girl's care.

A year later, Jahi remains on a ventilator and hooked to feeding tubes, and her case has ignited a debate over the definition of brain death. On Friday, this was added to the Keep Jahi McMath on Life Support Facebook page: "Today marks one year this tragedy happened at the Children's Hospital Oakland, and we want to thank God for keeping Jahi ALIVE and WELL against all odds."

Here's a look at the latest:

EXCLUSIVE: "She's Still Asleep," Jahi McMath's Mother Says of Daughter

 
 
[BAY] EXCLUSIVE: "She's Still Asleep," Jahi McMath's Mother Says of Daughter
In an exclusive interview, Jahi McMath's mother, Nailah Winkfield, talks about her daughter, who she says is "still asleep" and not brain dead. Here are some excerpts from that interview. (Published Thursday, Mar 27, 2014)

___

Q: Why does her family want to keep her on a ventilator?

A: Jahi's relatives say their religious beliefs dictate that as long as her heart is beating, Jahi is alive and deserves long-term care. In October, the family released videos of the girl showing her foot and hand appearing to move in response to her mother's commands.

___

Diploma Fight for Jahi McMath

 
 
[BAY] Diploma Fight for Jahi McMath
Jahi McMath's family wants a diploma for the girl, who is on life support. Stephanie Chuang reports. (Published Wednesday, Jun 11, 2014)

Q: Is there any scientific basis for the family's belief that Jahi is responsive and could recover?

A: Nancy Berlinger, a bioethicist with The Hastings Center, a nonpartisan research institute devoted to health and medical issues, says Jahi's body is only being maintained by machines. Others contend the family is confusing any movements with an involuntary muscle reflex sometimes seen in brain-dead patients— the so-called Lazarus effect.

___

Q: Is this case different from other high-profile instances where families have gone to court over prolonging medical intervention?

A: A Florida woman named Terry Schiavo often is associated with end-of-life legal fights. Schiavo collapsed at her home when she was 26 and was on life support from 1990 to 2005. Multiple doctors diagnosed her as being in a persistent vegetative state, but her parents refused to accept that. Schiavo maintained signs of limited brain activity and was able to breathe without a ventilator. Jahi is different in that doctors say her heart would stop beating if she were removed from a breathing machine because her brain stem is not functioning. The lengthy and costly campaign by her family to keep the girl's heart beating is rare.

___

Q: What do other experts say?

A: Philip DeFina, chief executive of the International Brain Research Foundation, said researchers found electrical activity after conducting a brain scan of Jahi. DeFina also said blood is flowing to her brain, which remains intact despite predictions that it should have "liquefied" by now. Other experts remain skeptical and are calling for further testing by independent sources. David Magnus, director of the Stanford Center for Biomedical Ethics, has said there is no evidence that patients who are brain dead can ever recover. Still, he said that it's somewhat surprising her body has lasted as long as it has and that some patients can live for years on ventilators.

___

Q: Where is Jahi now and where does legal action surrounding her case now stand?

A:
The family says she is in a "home environment" in New Jersey with her mother and stepfather and is cared for around the clock. Unlike California, New Jersey law allows families to reject a declaration of brain death on religious grounds and allows brain-dead patients to remain connected to ventilators. In October, the family's lawyer Christopher Dolan sought an unprecedented court ruling to revoke the death certificate, arguing that new tests show Jahi has brain activity. He later withdrew his request for a court hearing, telling the judge he wanted time for the court-appointed doctor and his own medical experts to confer. No new court date has been scheduled.

NBC Bay Area's Lisa Fernandez contributed to this report

 

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Anniversary-of-Jahi-McMaths-Brain-Death-On-Machines-One-Year-Later-285611511.html



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They want a diploma for her?

I appreciate the pain they are in but they need a reality check.

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Mellow Momma wrote:

They want a diploma for her?

I appreciate the pain they are in but they need a reality check.


 I missed that.

I really hope there are no other siblings.

flan



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Mellow Momma wrote:

They want a diploma for her?

I appreciate the pain they are in but they need a reality check.


 Yes.  no



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This case fascinates me. I struggle between compassion and a need to just stop the insanity.

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Compassion yes. But they have to face reality. It is what it is. What has happened cannot be undone. Do they really want her to lie in a hospital bed for the next 50 yrs?

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Compassion yes. But they have to face reality. It is what it is. What has happened cannot be undone. Do they really want her to lie in a hospital bed for the next 50 yrs?


 They are waiting for a miracle.

flan



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She's not "alive and well". Depending on your definition of "alive"--that may be up for debate. There is no debate that she is "well"--she's not.



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She is alive. Her heart is breathing and her body is performing other functions . But that isn't "life" in the sense of being a thinking, active human being.

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It's a tragic situation. But, I think it is made even more tragic by her parents refusal to face reality.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

It's a tragic situation. But, I think it is made even more tragic by her parents refusal to face reality.


 I agree. I hope if I was EVER in a similar situation, I would be strong enough to put my child out of his misery.

flan



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Does she even have any awareness?

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Is she in misery? I don't know.

I can completely understand not wanting to give up on your child. I really do. I cant imagine losing a child. I think for any of us to say she needs to face reality have no idea of what their reality is.

If her family wants to keep her alive, then they can do that.

As for a diploma, I don't see why not. Honorary degrees and diplomas are given away all the time. That is all it would be, honorary.

I feel really bad for them.

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lilyofcourse wrote:

Is she in misery? I don't know.

I can completely understand not wanting to give up on your child. I really do. I cant imagine losing a child. I think for any of us to say she needs to face reality have no idea of what their reality is.

If her family wants to keep her alive, then they can do that.

As for a diploma, I don't see why not. Honorary degrees and diplomas are given away all the time. That is all it would be, honorary.

I feel really bad for them.


Why?  Why should they be able to use MILLIONS of dollars of medical resources to keep her in a vegetative state? 



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Southern_Belle wrote:

Does she even have any awareness?


With zero brain activity, there can be no awareness. 



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When you are in that mother's shoes, you answer that question. And don't give me the "if it were me" thoughts. It isn't you. Your daughter is playing basket ball and going to school and hanging out with friends and decorating Christmas trees and making plans for a future.

You don't have any idea what you would do or how you would feel if your daughter was laying in a hospital bed instead of doing those things you and your daughter can take for granted.

It is her daughter. She isn't ready to give up on her. And that is her right.

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She doesn't commandeer the medical system.



-- Edited by Lady Gaga Snerd on Saturday 13th of December 2014 03:38:13 PM

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What are you talking about?

She fought for and won the right to keep her daughter alive.

I'd rather it go to this than those terrorists. Just sayin.

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On Friday, this was added to the Keep Jahi McMath on Life Support Facebook page: "Today marks one year this tragedy happened at the Children's Hospital Oakland, and we want to thank God for keeping Jahi ALIVE and WELL against all odds."

Um, no, it isn't God keeping her alive. If it was God keeping her alive, SHE WOULDN"T NEED TO BE ON A VENTILATOR. Her mother needs psychiatric help to get back to reality and let the poor girl go.

I also can't imagine the medical bills. Who is going to pay for that? I know for my 5 weeks in the hospital, costs before insurance are going to be around $200k. Insurance pays about 80%. I will have to pay the other 20 percent, which I don't know how I will yet. I can't imagine any insurance company agreeing to pay anything toward this girl's life support when she is brain dead.

 



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So lets put everyone on life support for any reason to death. Because someone has to pay for it.

Meanwhile there are prisoners who get 100% of their medical care.

Terrorists are receiving 100% of their medical care.

But let's put down the ones who happened to end up on life support and call their family insane for holding out any hope at all.

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That isn't what I am talking about. And, just because you "demand" something of the medical system doesn't mean that you run the show. She has had an extended opportunity to recover. And, physicians are not obligated to provide treatments that they believe are futile or of no medical benefit.

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lilyofcourse wrote:

So lets put everyone on life support for any reason to death. Because someone has to pay for it.

Meanwhile there are prisoners who get 100% of their medical care.

Terrorists are receiving 100% of their medical care.

But let's put down the ones who happened to end up on life support and call their family insane for holding out any hope at all.


Wow.  Is it possible for you to have an honest discussion with histrionics and melodrama?   hmm 



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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

She is alive. Her heart is breathing and her body is performing other functions . But that isn't "life" in the sense of being a thinking, active human being.


 Which she wouldn't be doing if not for machines.  I agree that this is not life.

 

And who rejects death on religious grounds in favor of machines? 



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tlc wrote:

On Friday, this was added to the Keep Jahi McMath on Life Support Facebook page: "Today marks one year this tragedy happened at the Children's Hospital Oakland, and we want to thank God for keeping Jahi ALIVE and WELL against all odds."

Um, no, it isn't God keeping her alive. If it was God keeping her alive, SHE WOULDN"T NEED TO BE ON A VENTILATOR. Her mother needs psychiatric help to get back to reality and let the poor girl go.

I also can't imagine the medical bills. Who is going to pay for that? I know for my 5 weeks in the hospital, costs before insurance are going to be around $200k. Insurance pays about 80%. I will have to pay the other 20 percent, which I don't know how I will yet. I can't imagine any insurance company agreeing to pay anything toward this girl's life support when she is brain dead.

 


 AMEN.



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

So lets put everyone on life support for any reason to death. Because someone has to pay for it.

Meanwhile there are prisoners who get 100% of their medical care.

Terrorists are receiving 100% of their medical care.

But let's put down the ones who happened to end up on life support and call their family insane for holding out any hope at all.


Wow.  Is it possible for you to have an honest discussion with histrionics and melodrama?   hmm 


Can you?evileye 



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Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

She is alive. Her heart is breathing and her body is performing other functions . But that isn't "life" in the sense of being a thinking, active human being.


 Which she wouldn't be doing if not for machines.  I agree that this is not life.

 

And who rejects death on religious grounds in favor of machines? 


Yes, why are Christians so afraid of dying that they will keep the shell of the body alive?  In olden days, when grandma had a stroke, they brought her home, tucked her in, attempted to feed her via a spoon and nature took it's course.  Yes, modern medicine can do miracles but that doesn't mean we have to choose treatments that don't heal or cure but merely leave one in a prolonged vegetative state. 



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

She is alive. Her heart is breathing and her body is performing other functions . But that isn't "life" in the sense of being a thinking, active human being.


 Which she wouldn't be doing if not for machines.  I agree that this is not life.

 

And who rejects death on religious grounds in favor of machines? 


Yes, why are Christians so afraid of dying that they will keep the shell of the body alive?  In olden days, when grandma had a stroke, they brought her home, tucked her in, attempted to feed her via a spoon and nature took it's course.  Yes, modern medicine can do miracles but that doesn't mean we have to choose treatments that don't heal or cure but merely leave one in a prolonged vegetative state. 


 And if you soul can't leave because you are being kept alive by life support - you could be trapping your loved one in a vegetative prison instead of letting them pass on to heaven.  Just don't know, but I don't think I'd want to take that chance.



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lilyofcourse wrote:

So lets put everyone on life support for any reason to death. Because someone has to pay for it.

Meanwhile there are prisoners who get 100% of their medical care.

Terrorists are receiving 100% of their medical care.

But let's put down the ones who happened to end up on life support and call their family insane for holding out any hope at all.


Oh come on.  It makes a difference if:

A.  they have any hope of recovery to at least some sort of conscious state.

B.  they are brain dead, or they aren't. 

 

More than one doctor has said she is brain dead and there is no hope of recovery.  There are not going to be any miracles here. 



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Yeah really.

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huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

So lets put everyone on life support for any reason to death. Because someone has to pay for it.

Meanwhile there are prisoners who get 100% of their medical care.

Terrorists are receiving 100% of their medical care.

But let's put down the ones who happened to end up on life support and call their family insane for holding out any hope at all.


Oh come on.  It makes a difference if:

A.  they have any hope of recovery to at least some sort of conscious state.

B.  they are brain dead, or they aren't. 

 

More than one doctor has said she is brain dead and there is no hope of recovery.  There are not going to be any miracles here. 


Lazarus was in the tomb for three days when that miracle happened.

Yes, I believe in miracles and that they still happen today.

But that is not the point I was trying to make.

  



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I didn't say miracles can't happen or even that a miracle couldn't happen--I said it wasn't going to.

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Well, if they turn off the machines and she wakes up, it's a miracle. If she dies, it's God's will.

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And I wasn't talking about miracles at all to begin with.

I was talking about those who bring up costs and such.

Those in prison and the terrorists are getting 100% of their medical care taken care of.

But a person in a coma and everyone wants to know who is paying for it.

It seems backwards to me.

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Southern_Belle wrote:

Well, if they turn off the machines and she wakes up, it's a miracle. If she dies, it's God's will.


 I think they have been fighting God's will for a while.  This happened during a routine tonsillectomy and she has not recovered in a year.



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I agree they are fighting a futile battle.

But I cant help but feel for them. I cant imagine losing my daughter. I could easily become the mom fighting.

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Yep, very sad but it happens.

 

ETA, my comment was in response to LL.



-- Edited by Southern_Belle on Saturday 13th of December 2014 08:36:52 PM

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lilyofcourse wrote:

And I wasn't talking about miracles at all to begin with.

I was talking about those who bring up costs and such.

Those in prison and the terrorists are getting 100% of their medical care taken care of.

But a person in a coma and everyone wants to know who is paying for it.

It seems backwards to me.


 But that's a silly comparison.  If you don't want to pay for health care for those in prison--then you can let them go.

 

In this case, it's the family's choice here--and if it's the taxpayers footing the bill for a useless gesture, then that is absolutely a consideration, especially when people who CAN be helped are denied due to cost. 



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Well let's just pretend there are unlimited resources and money.

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It's a tough call. Who is she being kept breathing for? She has no quality of life. She would not survive without mechanical support. What happens when her mother is gone?

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Well let's just pretend there are unlimited resources and money.


It bothers you that a mom is wanting to keep her daughter with her but it doesn't bother you that a prisoner or terrorist are getting their medical care on YOUR dime?

 



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huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

And I wasn't talking about miracles at all to begin with.

I was talking about those who bring up costs and such.

Those in prison and the terrorists are getting 100% of their medical care taken care of.

But a person in a coma and everyone wants to know who is paying for it.

It seems backwards to me.


 But that's a silly comparison.  If you don't want to pay for health care for those in prison--then you can let them go.

 

In this case, it's the family's choice here--and if it's the taxpayers footing the bill for a useless gesture, then that is absolutely a consideration, especially when people who CAN be helped are denied due to cost. 


No. They don't have to be let go. Perhaps if the prisons were not so posh there wouldn't be so many in there.

And as for the terrorists, why are they getting any kind of care?

 



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Like I said. It seems backwards to me.



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It's two different issues Lilly. One doesn't justify the other ir vice versa.

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lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

And I wasn't talking about miracles at all to begin with.

I was talking about those who bring up costs and such.

Those in prison and the terrorists are getting 100% of their medical care taken care of.

But a person in a coma and everyone wants to know who is paying for it.

It seems backwards to me.


 But that's a silly comparison.  If you don't want to pay for health care for those in prison--then you can let them go.

 

In this case, it's the family's choice here--and if it's the taxpayers footing the bill for a useless gesture, then that is absolutely a consideration, especially when people who CAN be helped are denied due to cost. 


No. They don't have to be let go. Perhaps if the prisons were not so posh there wouldn't be so many in there.

And as for the terrorists, why are they getting any kind of care?

 


 Because they are not brain dead with no chance of waking up.  You are comparing two completely different things. 



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lilyofcourse wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

And I wasn't talking about miracles at all to begin with.

I was talking about those who bring up costs and such.

Those in prison and the terrorists are getting 100% of their medical care taken care of.

But a person in a coma and everyone wants to know who is paying for it.

It seems backwards to me.


 But that's a silly comparison.  If you don't want to pay for health care for those in prison--then you can let them go.

 

In this case, it's the family's choice here--and if it's the taxpayers footing the bill for a useless gesture, then that is absolutely a consideration, especially when people who CAN be helped are denied due to cost. 


No. They don't have to be let go. Perhaps if the prisons were not so posh there wouldn't be so many in there.

And as for the terrorists, why are they getting any kind of care?

 


Um, we are incarcerating them, so we are responsible for their medical care.  If we don't want to be responsible, we can let them go.

 

Again, it's a silly comparison, anyway.   



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

It's two different issues Lilly. One doesn't justify the other ir vice versa.


Yeah, no kidding. 

 

Two VASTLY different issues.   



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No it isn't. It is a good example of how people get upset over the cost of a sick person but not the cost of an inmate.

Kill the sick person. Make the criminal as comfortable as possible.

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Whatever.

Be upset all you want over a mom wanting to keep her daughter with her.

I pray none of us are NEVER in her shoes to know exactly what she is going through.


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lilyofcourse wrote:

No it isn't. It is a good example of how people get upset over the cost of a sick person but not the cost of an inmate.

Kill the sick person. Make the criminal as comfortable as possible.


It's ridiculous.  By default, if you are going to incarcerate someone, you have to provide basic needs--and that includes caring for them when they are sick.

She's already dead--you CAN'T kill someone who is already dead.   



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lilyofcourse wrote:

Whatever.

Be upset all you want over a mom wanting to keep her daughter with her.

I pray none of us are NEVER in her shoes to know exactly what she is going through.


Her daughter ISN'T "with her".  She's been gone for a year.   



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