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Post Info TOPIC: Should Telling Your LGBT Child 'It's Just a Phase' Be a Crime?


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Should Telling Your LGBT Child 'It's Just a Phase' Be a Crime?
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Should Telling Your LGBT Child 'It's Just a Phase' Be a Crime?

Transgender teen Leelah Alcorn didn’t commit suicide by stepping in front of that tractor trailer last month—she was metaphorically pushed by her unaccepting parents. That’s what Dan Savage and other LGBT advocates are saying in their call for criminal charges, from child abuse to reckless endangerment, to be filed against Alcorn's parents.

 

Although the outrage over the Ohio 17-year-old's death is justified, the probability of successfully prosecuting Alcorn’s parents is unlikely, said attorney Shannan Wilber, youth policy director of the National Center for Lesbian Rights.

“As far as I know there’s no precedent for anything like that,” said Wilber. “In order to commit a crime, you have to have intent to commit a crime.”

In the case of Alcorn’s parents, they seem to be guilty only of being uneducated and misled—the recipients of “some bad advice,” said Wilber. A successful criminal case would require identifying that an illegal activity took place, and then finding a district attorney to prosecute it, she said. So although Alcorn’s parents likely won't be found legally responsible for her death, the shattering effects of their behavior can’t be overstated.

In Alcorn's suicide note she writes that her mom told her she'd "never truly be a girl" and that "God doesn't make mistakes." When Alcorn came out, her parents pulled her out of public school and took away her cell phone and computer, according to Alcorn's note. She was sent to "very biased" religious therapists, which meant she "only got more Christians telling me that I was selfish and wrong and that I should look to God for help,” Alcorn wrote.

Details surrounding Alcorn's treatment aren't confirmed by doctors or her family, but she also criticizes her parents for insisting that her transgender status was just "a phase."

Rights to mental health treatment lie at the core of the questionable actions that have inspired rage against Alcorn's parents in the LGBT community. Dan Savage compares the situation to that of Tyler Clementi, an 18-year-old who committed suicide after his roommate broadcast him kissing another man. If Clementi's roommate could be prosecuted, and he was, then so should the Alcorn's parents, Savage wrote in a tweet

Many others in the LGBT community have also publicly skewered Alcorn's parents, tweeting that what they did was child abuse and calling their behavior "disgusting."  Fuel was added to the fire when Alcorn's mother repeatedly referred to Leelah as "him" in a CNN interview. The family even received threats that the Alcorn's funeral would be disrupted, so they moved the service and held it in private.

All this criticism for insensitivity begs the question of whether it's fair to chastise and push for criminal charges against grieving parents, who, regardless of how it happened, lost a child just a few weeks ago. The Alcorns have publicly stated that although their religious beliefs didn't support their son's desire to live as a transgender female, they loved "him" unconditionally.

"We loved him no matter what," mother Carla Alcorn, told CNN. "I loved my son. People need to know that I loved him. He was a good kid, a good boy."

How parents respond to their gay or transgender teen can have a “tremendous impact” on that kid’s mental and physical health, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Research shows that LGBT young adults who were rejected by their families during adolescence are more than eight times as likely to report having attempted suicide, according to a report published last year from the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration. 

Statistics show 41 percent of transgender and gender-nonconforming respondents said they’ve attempted suicide, according to a 2011 report from the National Center for Transgender Equality.

Turning to the church for guidance may have cost Leelah Acorn her life, which makes public education campaigns like the Family Acceptance Project  crucial to changing the way people understand the effects of rejection on LGBT children, said Wilber. The San Francisco–based project studies the way parents react to and deal with their child coming out as gay or transgender. The group in turn works with families to help them provide a positive, supportive environment for the LGBT teen, which can help reduce the youth's risk of suicide, HIV or homelessness.   

If any legal action is taken in the aftermath of Alcorn's death, it should be against the “real villains” in these situations across the country, the religious leaders and conversion therapists who prey on families in need of guidance, said Wilber.

“The whole premise of conversion therapy is that there’s something wrong or bad about being LGBT,” said Wilber.

Conversion or “reparative therapy” attempts to change one’s sexual orientation or identity through a variety of techniques, from prayer to electric shock. This form of therapy has been publicly condemned by medical associations for being ineffective at best and highly damaging at worst. California, New Jersey, and the District of Columbia have recently passed legislation that bans conversion therapy, prohibiting licensed therapists from using it on people under the age of 18. In the meantime, she supports civil litigation to hold conversion therapists accountable.

Wilber likens conversion therapy and parents' overall rejection of LGBT children to forms of child abuse, in that many of the actions we now consider abuse weren't classified as such 25 or 50 years ago.

“For example, many, many people used corporal punishment in the ’50s and ’60s, and it was considered absolutely fine,” said Wilber. 

Striking children as a disciplinary measure used to be not only acceptable but necessary under "biblical precepts" about sparing the rod, said Wilber. The public's perception of physical abuse only changed after decades of research emerged to show that spanking is ineffective and potentially harmful, and after medical groups such as the American Academy of Pediatrics spoke out against hitting children.

Although there still isn't a "universal condemnation" of corporal punishment, said Wilber, physically hurting children is more likely to be investigated and treated as child abuse now.

Wilber and the National Center for Lesbian Rights launched the #BornPerfect campaign last year in an effort to end conversion therapy nationwide and teach parents that a child's sexual orientation or gender identity is not something that can be changed through treatment.

http://news.yahoo.com/telling-lgbt-child-just-phase-crime-202652820.html

 



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:""That’s what Dan Savage and other LGBT advocates are saying in their call for criminal charges, from child abuse to reckless endangerment, to be filed against Alcorn's parents.""

Really? THESE people know better about THEIR child than the parents? Wow.

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Should Telling Your LGBT Child 'It's Just a Phase' Be a Crime?

If course not.
But that wasn't all that was done here.
It's obvious to me that her depression and therefore her suicide was a result of her parents lack of acceptance of her.
Seems to me like it's a decent case.

Edited to change the word "treatment" to "lack of acceptance"



-- Edited by rose on Thursday 8th of January 2015 09:06:25 AM



-- Edited by rose on Thursday 8th of January 2015 09:07:22 AM

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rose wrote:

Should Telling Your LGBT Child 'It's Just a Phase' Be a Crime?

If course not.
But that wasn't all that was done here.
It's obvious to me that her depression and therefore her suicide was a result of her parents lack of acceptance of her.
Seems to me like it's a decent case.

Edited to change the word "treatment" to "lack of acceptance"



-- Edited by rose on Thursday 8th of January 2015 09:06:25 AM



-- Edited by rose on Thursday 8th of January 2015 09:07:22 AM


 You can't prosecute someone for their feelings and opinions, no matter how much you dislike them. 



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Lawyerlady wrote:
rose wrote:

Should Telling Your LGBT Child 'It's Just a Phase' Be a Crime?

If course not.
But that wasn't all that was done here.
It's obvious to me that her depression and therefore her suicide was a result of her parents lack of acceptance of her.
Seems to me like it's a decent case.

Edited to change the word "treatment" to "lack of acceptance"



-- Edited by rose on Thursday 8th of January 2015 09:06:25 AM



-- Edited by rose on Thursday 8th of January 2015 09:07:22 AM


 You can't prosecute someone for their feelings and opinions, no matter how much you dislike them. 


  of course not.

It's what you do and say because of your opinions that matter.

 



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rose wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
rose wrote:

Should Telling Your LGBT Child 'It's Just a Phase' Be a Crime?

If course not.
But that wasn't all that was done here.
It's obvious to me that her depression and therefore her suicide was a result of her parents lack of acceptance of her.
Seems to me like it's a decent case.

Edited to change the word "treatment" to "lack of acceptance"



-- Edited by rose on Thursday 8th of January 2015 09:06:25 AM



-- Edited by rose on Thursday 8th of January 2015 09:07:22 AM


 You can't prosecute someone for their feelings and opinions, no matter how much you dislike them. 


  of course not.

It's what you do and say because of your opinions that matter.

 


This child committed suicide because the parents would not accept their sexual identity.  It's sad, but it is not a crime.



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Well, just because someone doesn't initially roll out the Hip Hooray doesn't mean the parents didn't love their child or wouldn't have come around. So, in other words, you cannot express anything other than complete and total praise and acceptance? So, if you are disappointed in your child's performance on a test or you say something they interpret as "negative' then now you are pushing them to kill themselves? Of course they loved their child and they probably didn't know how to react. And, finding a new way to interact is a PROCESS of time and learning and so forth. But, for these LGBT advocates to decide the parents need to be treated as criminals, No.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Well, just because someone doesn't initially roll out the Hip Hooray doesn't mean the parents didn't love their child or wouldn't have come around. So, in other words, you cannot express anything other than complete and total praise and acceptance? So, if you are disappointed in your child's performance on a test or you say something they interpret as "negative' then now you are pushing them to kill themselves? Of course they loved their child and they probably didn't know how to react. And, finding a new way to interact is a PROCESS of time and learning and so forth. But, for these LGBT advocates to decide the parents need to be treated as criminals, No.


 There is a huge difference between a grade on a test and this situation:

In the case of Alcorn’s parents, they seem to be guilty only of being uneducated and misled—the recipients of “some bad advice,” said Wilber. A successful criminal case would require identifying that an illegal activity took place, and then finding a district attorney to prosecute it, she said. So although Alcorn’s parents likely won't be found legally responsible for her death, the shattering effects of their behavior can’t be overstated.

In Alcorn's suicide note she writes that her mom told her she'd "never truly be a girl" and that "God doesn't make mistakes." When Alcorn came out, her parents pulled her out of public school and took away her cell phone and computer, according to Alcorn's note. She was sent to "very biased" religious therapists, which meant she "only got more Christians telling me that I was selfish and wrong and that I should look to God for help,” Alcorn wrote.

But I do agree that they aren't criminals. They have to live with the loss of their daughter. That's enough.

flan



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My mother didn't accept me either. I shaved my head into a Mohawk at 15. I wore combat boots and leather jackets. I wore white cream makeup with heavy black eyeliner and black lipstick. She took my phone away (not a cell phone, but a private line in my room). She refused to let me get my drivers license at 16. I was not allowed to talk to any of my "Goth" friends. I was made to attend mass at least twice a week. I was put in juvenile for the high crime of being an "unruly child".

Guess I should have just offed myself...and maybe my parents would be in jail now...confuse




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Should Telling Your LGBT Child 'It's Just a Phase' Be a Crime?
__________________________________________________

if you even have to ask this question, you've already got some serious issues


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When did "acceptance" come to mean the total and complete approval of everything someone else thinks, feels, acts or does?

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burns07 wrote:


Should Telling Your LGBT Child 'It's Just a Phase' Be a Crime?
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if you even have to ask this question, you've already got some serious issues


Burns - It is one step away from further criminalizing thought and squashing the religious who may think otherwise. 



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

When did "acceptance" come to mean the total and complete approval of everything someone else thinks, feels, acts or does?


THANK YOU!!!!!!!! 



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The reason their kid committed suicide isn't because they didn't "accept" their child. The reason kids are committing suicide is because we are TELLING them if that people don't fall down at your feet and kiss your ass over EVERYTHING you do, then you are a VICTIM and as a victim, your life is now destroyed because once you accept the VICTIM label, you must now accept that as your lifetime appointment and can never go beyond the fact that you were a VICTIM.

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Pity is one of the most destructive emotions on the planet. Pitying people is telling that person, I agree, you are pathetic. SUcks to be you. Eat worms and die. Rather we should be teaching our kids, you are STRONG! You are strong young men and women. You can overcome and succeed in life. You have gifts and talents to show the world. And, yes, there will be naysayers in your life. A whole hell of a lot of them. But, if you kill yourself, you have then lived your life for the naysayers. You are saying the Bullies are right. And, if you spend your life reliving what happened and living as a victim, then you continue to give the bullies power over you forever.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

The reason their kid committed suicide isn't because they didn't "accept" their child. The reason kids are committing suicide is because we are TELLING them if that people don't fall down at your feet and kiss your ass over EVERYTHING you do, then you are a VICTIM and as a victim, your life is now destroyed because once you accept the VICTIM label, you must now accept that as your lifetime appointment and can never go beyond the fact that you were a VICTIM.


 In this case, that is EXACTLY why their child committed suicide.

Did you read the note?

flan



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flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

The reason their kid committed suicide isn't because they didn't "accept" their child. The reason kids are committing suicide is because we are TELLING them if that people don't fall down at your feet and kiss your ass over EVERYTHING you do, then you are a VICTIM and as a victim, your life is now destroyed because once you accept the VICTIM label, you must now accept that as your lifetime appointment and can never go beyond the fact that you were a VICTIM.


 In this case, that is EXACTLY why their child committed suicide.

Did you read the note?

flan


So we should accept our children, no matter what?  Nope.  Not gonna happen... 



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Ohfour wrote:

My mother didn't accept me either. I shaved my head into a Mohawk at 15. I wore combat boots and leather jackets. I wore white cream makeup with heavy black eyeliner and black lipstick. She took my phone away (not a cell phone, but a private line in my room). She refused to let me get my drivers license at 16. I was not allowed to talk to any of my "Goth" friends. I was made to attend mass at least twice a week. I was put in juvenile for the high crime of being an "unruly child".

Guess I should have just offed myself...and maybe my parents would be in jail now...confuse



Can I have your Doc Martens?  :) 



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flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

The reason their kid committed suicide isn't because they didn't "accept" their child. The reason kids are committing suicide is because we are TELLING them if that people don't fall down at your feet and kiss your ass over EVERYTHING you do, then you are a VICTIM and as a victim, your life is now destroyed because once you accept the VICTIM label, you must now accept that as your lifetime appointment and can never go beyond the fact that you were a VICTIM.


 In this case, that is EXACTLY why their child committed suicide.

Did you read the note?

flan


 So parents should just "accept" everything about their children?  No.  That's absurd. 

Who is to say it is or is not a phase?  Psychologists who don't even know the child?

Peers rather than parents?

The child, themselves, in which case you are saying that children never go through "phases" when we all know damn well they do. 



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I think the crux of the matter is this:

"If any legal action is taken in the aftermath of Alcorn's death, it should be against the “real villains” in these situations across the country, the religious leaders and conversion therapists who prey on families in need of guidance, said Wilber.

“The whole premise of conversion therapy is that there’s something wrong or bad about being LGBT,” said Wilber."

 

These crackpots get paid for pushing lies, giving parents wrong advice and wrong ideas, then abusing children. For MONEY.

And the kids die. "Conversion therapy" has to be made illegal with sever penalties.

 

Could the Imams who radicalize their congregants, who tell people to blow up civilians, be prosecuted? SURE.

These are not Muslim crackpots, these are supposedly Christina crackpots, pushing ideas that kill children. Are they not just as bad as the radical Imams?



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So now you want to criminalize religious beliefs.
That's great--until someone disagrees with what YOU believe.

This kid had other choices. LOTS of kids have parents that they don't see eye to eye with. Parents who are physically or sexually abusive.

You can disagree all you want--but they committed no crime.

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So you want to prosecute freedom of speech? Nice...

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Ohfour wrote:

So you want to prosecute freedom of speech? Nice...


 Not to mention freedom of religion.

 



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huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

The reason their kid committed suicide isn't because they didn't "accept" their child. The reason kids are committing suicide is because we are TELLING them if that people don't fall down at your feet and kiss your ass over EVERYTHING you do, then you are a VICTIM and as a victim, your life is now destroyed because once you accept the VICTIM label, you must now accept that as your lifetime appointment and can never go beyond the fact that you were a VICTIM.


 In this case, that is EXACTLY why their child committed suicide.

Did you read the note?

flan


 So parents should just "accept" everything about their children?  No.  That's absurd. 

Who is to say it is or is not a phase?  Psychologists who don't even know the child?

Peers rather than parents?

The child, themselves, in which case you are saying that children never go through "phases" when we all know damn well they do. 


 There are bad psychologists out there, just like any other profession.

By treating their child like a freak, well, we all know what happened.

flan



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flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

The reason their kid committed suicide isn't because they didn't "accept" their child. The reason kids are committing suicide is because we are TELLING them if that people don't fall down at your feet and kiss your ass over EVERYTHING you do, then you are a VICTIM and as a victim, your life is now destroyed because once you accept the VICTIM label, you must now accept that as your lifetime appointment and can never go beyond the fact that you were a VICTIM.


 In this case, that is EXACTLY why their child committed suicide.

Did you read the note?

flan


 So parents should just "accept" everything about their children?  No.  That's absurd. 

Who is to say it is or is not a phase?  Psychologists who don't even know the child?

Peers rather than parents?

The child, themselves, in which case you are saying that children never go through "phases" when we all know damn well they do. 


 There are bad psychologists out there, just like any other profession.

By treating their child like a freak, well, we all know what happened.

flan


 There are bad psychologists out there for any issue, from bed-wetting to acting out to drug abuse, etc. 



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huskerbb wrote:

So now you want to criminalize religious beliefs.
That's great--until someone disagrees with what YOU believe.

This kid had other choices. LOTS of kids have parents that they don't see eye to eye with. Parents who are physically or sexually abusive.

You can disagree all you want--but they committed no crime.


Are the radical Muslim leaders who tell their congregants to strap on bomb vest and blow up children committing a crime? 



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Ohfour wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

When did "acceptance" come to mean the total and complete approval of everything someone else thinks, feels, acts or does?


THANK YOU!!!!!!!! 


Seconded. 



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ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

So now you want to criminalize religious beliefs.
That's great--until someone disagrees with what YOU believe.

This kid had other choices. LOTS of kids have parents that they don't see eye to eye with. Parents who are physically or sexually abusive.

You can disagree all you want--but they committed no crime.


Are the radical Muslim leaders who tell their congregants to strap on bomb vest and blow up children committing a crime? 


If they directly told someone to commit an act of violence...

 

"you two boys over there plant some bombs at the Boston Marathon"

 

then yes.

 

That is NOT what the people you use as examples are doing.  In fact, they aren't telling anyone to kill anyone else.  NO ONE told anyone else to kill this girl, and they certainly didn't tell her to kill herself. 



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huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

So now you want to criminalize religious beliefs.
That's great--until someone disagrees with what YOU believe.

This kid had other choices. LOTS of kids have parents that they don't see eye to eye with. Parents who are physically or sexually abusive.

You can disagree all you want--but they committed no crime.


Are the radical Muslim leaders who tell their congregants to strap on bomb vest and blow up children committing a crime? 


If they directly told someone to commit an act of violence...

 

"you two boys over there plant some bombs at the Boston Marathon"

 

then yes.

 

That is NOT what the people you use as examples are doing.  In fact, they aren't telling anyone to kill anyone else.  NO ONE told anyone else to kill this girl, and they certainly didn't tell her to kill herself. 


They probably told he a thousand times in a hundred different ways that HE is a sinner, a worthless individual, who has to change an stop sinning by being what SHE actually is. 

 

What's the suicide rate for kids who've been in these "programs? 41%?

Sounds pretty deadly to me.

 

 



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ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

So now you want to criminalize religious beliefs.
That's great--until someone disagrees with what YOU believe.

This kid had other choices. LOTS of kids have parents that they don't see eye to eye with. Parents who are physically or sexually abusive.

You can disagree all you want--but they committed no crime.


Are the radical Muslim leaders who tell their congregants to strap on bomb vest and blow up children committing a crime? 


If they directly told someone to commit an act of violence...

 

"you two boys over there plant some bombs at the Boston Marathon"

 

then yes.

 

That is NOT what the people you use as examples are doing.  In fact, they aren't telling anyone to kill anyone else.  NO ONE told anyone else to kill this girl, and they certainly didn't tell her to kill herself. 


They probably told he a thousand times in a hundred different ways that HE is a sinner, a worthless individual, who has to change an stop sinning by being what SHE actually is. 

 

What's the suicide rate for kids who've been in these "programs? 41%?

Sounds pretty deadly to me.

 

 


So if my mother put me in rehab for smoking cigarettes and told me that it was killing me and I killed myself because, well, I might as well be dead because I'm NOT going to stop smoking, she should be charged with murder? 



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ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

So now you want to criminalize religious beliefs.
That's great--until someone disagrees with what YOU believe.

This kid had other choices. LOTS of kids have parents that they don't see eye to eye with. Parents who are physically or sexually abusive.

You can disagree all you want--but they committed no crime.


Are the radical Muslim leaders who tell their congregants to strap on bomb vest and blow up children committing a crime? 


That's the most retarded comparison I've ever heard....no 



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ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

So now you want to criminalize religious beliefs.
That's great--until someone disagrees with what YOU believe.

This kid had other choices. LOTS of kids have parents that they don't see eye to eye with. Parents who are physically or sexually abusive.

You can disagree all you want--but they committed no crime.


Are the radical Muslim leaders who tell their congregants to strap on bomb vest and blow up children committing a crime? 


If they directly told someone to commit an act of violence...

 

"you two boys over there plant some bombs at the Boston Marathon"

 

then yes.

 

That is NOT what the people you use as examples are doing.  In fact, they aren't telling anyone to kill anyone else.  NO ONE told anyone else to kill this girl, and they certainly didn't tell her to kill herself. 


They probably told he a thousand times in a hundred different ways that HE is a sinner, a worthless individual, who has to change an stop sinning by being what SHE actually is. 

 

What's the suicide rate for kids who've been in these "programs? 41%?

Sounds pretty deadly to me.

 

 


 How it "sounds" to you is irrelevant.



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huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

So now you want to criminalize religious beliefs.
That's great--until someone disagrees with what YOU believe.

This kid had other choices. LOTS of kids have parents that they don't see eye to eye with. Parents who are physically or sexually abusive.

You can disagree all you want--but they committed no crime.


Are the radical Muslim leaders who tell their congregants to strap on bomb vest and blow up children committing a crime? 


If they directly told someone to commit an act of violence...

 

"you two boys over there plant some bombs at the Boston Marathon"

 

then yes.

 

That is NOT what the people you use as examples are doing.  In fact, they aren't telling anyone to kill anyone else.  NO ONE told anyone else to kill this girl, and they certainly didn't tell her to kill herself. 


They probably told he a thousand times in a hundred different ways that HE is a sinner, a worthless individual, who has to change an stop sinning by being what SHE actually is. 

 

What's the suicide rate for kids who've been in these "programs? 41%?

Sounds pretty deadly to me.

 

 


 How it "sounds" to you is irrelevant.


 So now you want to prosecute on "probablys".  You can't make this stuff up...



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Ohfour wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

So now you want to criminalize religious beliefs.
That's great--until someone disagrees with what YOU believe.

This kid had other choices. LOTS of kids have parents that they don't see eye to eye with. Parents who are physically or sexually abusive.

You can disagree all you want--but they committed no crime.


Are the radical Muslim leaders who tell their congregants to strap on bomb vest and blow up children committing a crime? 


If they directly told someone to commit an act of violence...

 

"you two boys over there plant some bombs at the Boston Marathon"

 

then yes.

 

That is NOT what the people you use as examples are doing.  In fact, they aren't telling anyone to kill anyone else.  NO ONE told anyone else to kill this girl, and they certainly didn't tell her to kill herself. 


They probably told he a thousand times in a hundred different ways that HE is a sinner, a worthless individual, who has to change an stop sinning by being what SHE actually is. 

 

What's the suicide rate for kids who've been in these "programs? 41%?

Sounds pretty deadly to me.

 

 


 How it "sounds" to you is irrelevant.


 So now you want to prosecute on "probablys".  You can't make this stuff up...


 Plus, it's not a "probably"--it's a "maybe".   They also cannot demonstrate that even without such "intervention" that they wouldn't have committed suicide, anyway.

 

Finally, transsexuals are already fvcked up in the head--so we don't know what would happen if left alone, anyway.



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Itty bitty's Grammy

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huskerbb wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

So now you want to criminalize religious beliefs.
That's great--until someone disagrees with what YOU believe.

This kid had other choices. LOTS of kids have parents that they don't see eye to eye with. Parents who are physically or sexually abusive.

You can disagree all you want--but they committed no crime.


Are the radical Muslim leaders who tell their congregants to strap on bomb vest and blow up children committing a crime? 


If they directly told someone to commit an act of violence...

 

"you two boys over there plant some bombs at the Boston Marathon"

 

then yes.

 

That is NOT what the people you use as examples are doing.  In fact, they aren't telling anyone to kill anyone else.  NO ONE told anyone else to kill this girl, and they certainly didn't tell her to kill herself. 


They probably told he a thousand times in a hundred different ways that HE is a sinner, a worthless individual, who has to change an stop sinning by being what SHE actually is. 

 

What's the suicide rate for kids who've been in these "programs? 41%?

Sounds pretty deadly to me.

 

 


 How it "sounds" to you is irrelevant.


 So now you want to prosecute on "probablys".  You can't make this stuff up...


 Plus, it's not a "probably"--it's a "maybe".   They also cannot demonstrate that even without such "intervention" that they wouldn't have committed suicide, anyway.

 

Finally, transsexuals are already fvcked up in the head--so we don't know what would happen if left alone, anyway.


 Thank you for your compassion...no

flan



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Hooker

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Flan, There can't be any denying that. Their brain doesn't mesh with their body. That's pretty much the definition of fvcked up in the head.

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Itty bitty's Grammy

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Ohfour wrote:

Flan, There can't be any denying that. Their brain doesn't mesh with their body. That's pretty much the definition of fvcked up in the head.


 Yes, actually, it CAN be denied.

I don't know why they are wired differently from the rest of us, and I don't care.

Once upon a time, many disorders, both physical and psychological, were misunderstood.

flan



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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

So now you want to criminalize religious beliefs.
That's great--until someone disagrees with what YOU believe.

This kid had other choices. LOTS of kids have parents that they don't see eye to eye with. Parents who are physically or sexually abusive.

You can disagree all you want--but they committed no crime.


Are the radical Muslim leaders who tell their congregants to strap on bomb vest and blow up children committing a crime? 


If they directly told someone to commit an act of violence...

 

"you two boys over there plant some bombs at the Boston Marathon"

 

then yes.

 

That is NOT what the people you use as examples are doing.  In fact, they aren't telling anyone to kill anyone else.  NO ONE told anyone else to kill this girl, and they certainly didn't tell her to kill herself. 


They probably told he a thousand times in a hundred different ways that HE is a sinner, a worthless individual, who has to change an stop sinning by being what SHE actually is. 

 

What's the suicide rate for kids who've been in these "programs? 41%?

Sounds pretty deadly to me.

 

 


 Are you making up numbers now?  And the suicide rates for transgenders is already higher because they are mentally ill.



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Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

So now you want to criminalize religious beliefs.
That's great--until someone disagrees with what YOU believe.

This kid had other choices. LOTS of kids have parents that they don't see eye to eye with. Parents who are physically or sexually abusive.

You can disagree all you want--but they committed no crime.


Are the radical Muslim leaders who tell their congregants to strap on bomb vest and blow up children committing a crime? 


If they directly told someone to commit an act of violence...

 

"you two boys over there plant some bombs at the Boston Marathon"

 

then yes.

 

That is NOT what the people you use as examples are doing.  In fact, they aren't telling anyone to kill anyone else.  NO ONE told anyone else to kill this girl, and they certainly didn't tell her to kill herself. 


They probably told he a thousand times in a hundred different ways that HE is a sinner, a worthless individual, who has to change an stop sinning by being what SHE actually is. 

 

What's the suicide rate for kids who've been in these "programs? 41%?

Sounds pretty deadly to me.

 

 


 Are you making up numbers now?  And the suicide rates for transgenders is already higher because they are mentally ill.


I remembered the number from the article, here it is ...

"Statistics show 41 percent of transgender and gender-nonconforming respondents said they’ve attempted suicide, according to a 2011 report from the National Center for Transgender Equality."

 

So it's not 41% who died by their own hand, it's 41% who attempted suicide... if the report is real and accurate.

If there's any truth to it at all, it's frightening.

Spouse volunteered for a while at a suicide prevention hotline. She said almost all of the calls were from LGBT (not the term used then) teenagers.

 

 



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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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ed11563 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

So now you want to criminalize religious beliefs.
That's great--until someone disagrees with what YOU believe.

This kid had other choices. LOTS of kids have parents that they don't see eye to eye with. Parents who are physically or sexually abusive.

You can disagree all you want--but they committed no crime.


Are the radical Muslim leaders who tell their congregants to strap on bomb vest and blow up children committing a crime? 


If they directly told someone to commit an act of violence...

 

"you two boys over there plant some bombs at the Boston Marathon"

 

then yes.

 

That is NOT what the people you use as examples are doing.  In fact, they aren't telling anyone to kill anyone else.  NO ONE told anyone else to kill this girl, and they certainly didn't tell her to kill herself. 


They probably told he a thousand times in a hundred different ways that HE is a sinner, a worthless individual, who has to change an stop sinning by being what SHE actually is. 

 

What's the suicide rate for kids who've been in these "programs? 41%?

Sounds pretty deadly to me.

 

 


 Are you making up numbers now?  And the suicide rates for transgenders is already higher because they are mentally ill.


I remembered the number from the article, here it is ...

"Statistics show 41 percent of transgender and gender-nonconforming respondents said they’ve attempted suicide, according to a 2011 report from the National Center for Transgender Equality."

 

So it's not 41% who died by their own hand, it's 41% who attempted suicide... if the report is real and accurate.

If there's any truth to it at all, it's frightening.

Spouse volunteered for a while at a suicide prevention hotline. She said almost all of the calls were from LGBT (not the term used then) teenagers.

 

 


 It's also not "kids who've been in these 'programs'".  It's just people with gender issues in general. 



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flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

The reason their kid committed suicide isn't because they didn't "accept" their child. The reason kids are committing suicide is because we are TELLING them if that people don't fall down at your feet and kiss your ass over EVERYTHING you do, then you are a VICTIM and as a victim, your life is now destroyed because once you accept the VICTIM label, you must now accept that as your lifetime appointment and can never go beyond the fact that you were a VICTIM.


 In this case, that is EXACTLY why their child committed suicide.

Did you read the note?

flan


  No.  Kids are fed a line of BULLCRAP now that acceptance means your parents have to praise you for every damn thing you do 24/7, nonstop or somehow they are not "accepting".  It isn't the parents who prompted this but society around them that says everyone is a victim of everything and should just jump off the nearest bridge. 



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ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

So now you want to criminalize religious beliefs.
That's great--until someone disagrees with what YOU believe.

This kid had other choices. LOTS of kids have parents that they don't see eye to eye with. Parents who are physically or sexually abusive.

You can disagree all you want--but they committed no crime.


Are the radical Muslim leaders who tell their congregants to strap on bomb vest and blow up children committing a crime? 


 What?  That's the most ridiculous thing that has NOTHING to do with what we are talking about.



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flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

The reason their kid committed suicide isn't because they didn't "accept" their child. The reason kids are committing suicide is because we are TELLING them if that people don't fall down at your feet and kiss your ass over EVERYTHING you do, then you are a VICTIM and as a victim, your life is now destroyed because once you accept the VICTIM label, you must now accept that as your lifetime appointment and can never go beyond the fact that you were a VICTIM.


 In this case, that is EXACTLY why their child committed suicide.

Did you read the note?

flan


 So parents should just "accept" everything about their children?  No.  That's absurd. 

Who is to say it is or is not a phase?  Psychologists who don't even know the child?

Peers rather than parents?

The child, themselves, in which case you are saying that children never go through "phases" when we all know damn well they do. 


 There are bad psychologists out there, just like any other profession.

By treating their child like a freak, well, we all know what happened.

flan


In what way did they "treat their child like a freak"?  And as for being a "freak", yeah, if you are girl and then suddenly decide in High School, oh now I am a boy or vice versa, then that is pretty "freakish" to most people.   Wow. 



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Vette's SS!!

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I would hope the loss of their daughter is punishment enough.

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Why do the parents have to be "punished". Oh, good, you get to feel the painful loss of your daughter/son for the rest of your life, hooorayy! Sorry, but that is pretty sick. They no doubt loved him more than anyone on the planet. That's just ignorant. We dont' know all the reasons WHY someone commits suicide, even if they write a note.



-- Edited by Lady Gaga Snerd on Thursday 8th of January 2015 07:57:52 PM

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So you have a son and that you have raised as your son and then all of the sudden, oh btw, I am a "she". How do you expect parents to react?

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Itty bitty's Grammy

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

So you have a son and that you have raised as your son and then all of the sudden, oh btw, I am a "she". How do you expect parents to react?


 With love & concern, for starters.

flan



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Itty bitty's Grammy

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

The reason their kid committed suicide isn't because they didn't "accept" their child. The reason kids are committing suicide is because we are TELLING them if that people don't fall down at your feet and kiss your ass over EVERYTHING you do, then you are a VICTIM and as a victim, your life is now destroyed because once you accept the VICTIM label, you must now accept that as your lifetime appointment and can never go beyond the fact that you were a VICTIM.


 In this case, that is EXACTLY why their child committed suicide.

Did you read the note?

flan


  No.  Kids are fed a line of BULLCRAP now that acceptance means your parents have to praise you for every damn thing you do 24/7, nonstop or somehow they are not "accepting".  It isn't the parents who prompted this but society around them that says everyone is a victim of everything and should just jump off the nearest bridge. 


 You're exaggerating again.

flan



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Nothing's Impossible

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I know people like this. You just love your child. As hard as it is.

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flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

So you have a son and that you have raised as your son and then all of the sudden, oh btw, I am a "she". How do you expect parents to react?


 With love & concern, for starters.

flan


Which they did.  Just because you don't agree with how they handled it--doesn't mean they didn't show love or concern for their child.  



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