TOTALLY GEEKED!

huskerbb · Guru

Inconvenient truths.

ed11563 · Guru

Good article.

NAOW · Vette's SS

WHen I was growing up I heard the 'kids are resilient' line quite a bit, I don't remember if it was in passing or in reference to me handling my parents divorce, but even then I thought it was bull-Of course I'm resilient, because it's not like I have a choice to be anything different.

karl271 · Guru

Excellent article. I could not agree more with what has been said.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

I agree too. I wish people would stop making marriage so disposable.

Ohfour · Hooker

My kids are better of and have told me so. They said my divorce was the best thing that ever happened to them. This article applies to some, not all.

huskerbb · Guru

Obviously, some marriages have to end.

However, most of the things on that list are just clap trap that people tell themselves to try to justify it in their mind.

It's BS. If your marriage has to end, then it has to end--but don't pretend like it's not going to deeply affect your children and blindly think that your personal happiness is automatically what is best for them.

Plus, it irritates me that everyone always says things like "well, why should I have to stay in a bad marriage". They never say "what can I do to make the marriage BETTER." Pretty much, they just blame their spouse.

huskerbb · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
My kids are better of and have told me so. They said my divorce was the best thing that ever happened to them. This article applies to some, not all.

That's what everybody says.

Ohfour · Hooker

...

-- Edited by Ohfour on Tuesday 20th of January 2015 01:53:30 PM

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

I am in the agreement camp.
DH has had several conversations with DS about this subject, especially in reference to his own childhood security and the sense of wellbeing it gave him. DH wants DS to give his son the same sense of security of two loving parents for his whole life. Momma is the product of multiple family dynamics and sadly, it shows.
We are working on it! DS understands, DGF has never known true stability.

DH and I have a perfect marriage. We are two imperfect individuals who refuse to give up on each other.

I wish more people understood that concept. Marital stability leads to mental stability for the children as well as the couple.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

Ohfour wrote:
Well, when they had to call the cops to keep their dad from killing me, yeah, they felt better off. DD told me she slept peacefully for the first time after we got divorced. Not having to worry about your mother being killed is definitely a better off situation...

Your example is why your divorce was needed. Your life was in the balance. That is an acceptable reason, IMHO.

huskerbb · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
Well, when they had to call the cops to keep their dad from killing me, yeah, they felt better off. DD told me she slept peacefully for the first time after we got divorced. Not having to worry about your mother being killed is definitely a better off situation...

Why in the world would you have married someone like that?

Is that the same daughter who now has a relationship with her father?

Ohfour · Hooker

I was 17. I was stupid. Yes, this is the same daughter that now, after having her own child, has forgiven him. That's her decision as an adult. I don't agree, but whatever. He never laid a hand on the kids.

Ohfour · Hooker

I stayed because people like you told me that I should stay for the sake of my kids. That them not having divorced parents was better than what else they had to deal with. That no matter what, they were better off with married parents...

huskerbb · Guru

Most of those same people probably told you not to marry him in the first place, too, which would have been really good advice.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

huskerbb wrote:
Most of those same people probably told you not to marry him in the first place, too, which would have been really good advice.

Nope same people told me I should marry him.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I was married in 1993. I was divorced in 1999.

I was separated for the last three years doing everything I knew to do to make it work.

When someone says to me that I didn't try hard enough, I want to punch them in the throat.

No one has any idea what I did and how hard I tried, prayed, cried, begged and worked to keep my family together.

And yes. We were all better off after he was gone.

The fact that he completely disappeared for years at a time and ended up in prison for holding his last family at gun point and terrorizing little children, one of which was a 2 year old cancer patient, proves that.

Why did I marry him to begin with? Because he presented himself completely different when I met him and until we married.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Most of those same people probably told you not to marry him in the first place, too, which would have been really good advice.
Nope same people told me I should marry him.

Amazing how outsiders think they have ALL the answers.

Honeys_Mom · Mod & Permanent Board Sweetheart

Excellent article. No kids involved but I'm in the "it depends on the marriage" camp. I stayed entirely too long.

Ohfour · Hooker

My own experience aside, I DO think that far too many marriages end because of selfishness. I just know that's not the case for all. I think my father would still be alive if my mother had divorced him. I think that would have been his wake up call. She enabled him...to the detriment of all of us.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Most of those same people probably told you not to marry him in the first place, too, which would have been really good advice.
Nope same people told me I should marry him.
Amazing how outsiders think they have ALL the answers.

Maybe they do. What you ended up doing didn't work out that great.

Ohfour · Hooker

Because you have a perfect life, right Husker? You never made a mistake? Don't go there....

ladyloonatic · Regular

It IS a good article. AND parents do spew a lot of BS to defend their decision to divorce. And MANY TIMES it is two self-centered people who are only focusing on their own needs and blaming the other for what is wrong with the relationship.

But sometimes divorce is the right choice. People lie. People misrepresent themselves.

The biggest mistake is just assuming that the kids will "get over it" because they're resilient.

Domestic Engineer · Guru

I married a guy that I attended church with and had known his grandfather for many years. While I worked so he could finish college, he became a drug addict and womanizer. I didn't want a divorce, but after going to counseling where he stated that he wanted to stay married as long as he didn't have to give up his drugs or other women, I finally filed for divorce. Even though I had a Biblical reason for a divorce, I was so embarrassed that I had become a divorce statistic.

DD has no memories of living as a family with her bio-dad. After I remarried, he signed her over for adoption and went on his merry way. His wife #2 disappeared, never to be heard from again. Live-in girlfriend died from a drug overdose in his bed. He had another child that was taken by CPS. I firmly believe I made the right decision to protect our DD and leave.

Under certain situations, God permits divorce, it is not man's place to restrict what God permits.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Ohfour wrote:
I was 17. I was stupid. Yes, this is the same daughter that now, after having her own child, has forgiven him. That's her decision as an adult. I don't agree, but whatever. He never laid a hand on the kids.

Deleted upon request.

-- Edited by Lawyerlady on Tuesday 20th of January 2015 10:29:41 AM

ladyloonatic · Regular

Of course I don't know the details, but no one "makes" anyone do anything, do they?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

ladyloonatic wrote:
Of course I don't know the details, but no one "makes" anyone do anything, do they?

Deleted upon request.

-- Edited by Lawyerlady on Tuesday 20th of January 2015 10:29:22 AM

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

2 people have to try. At some point BOTH have to decide to try. You cannot try for your spouse. Some spouses just will not.

ladyloonatic · Regular

Lawyerlady wrote:
ladyloonatic wrote:
Of course I don't know the details, but no one "makes" anyone do anything, do they?
Deleted upon request.

Oh. That is so wrong.

But it was still 04s choice.

-- Edited by Lawyerlady on Tuesday 20th of January 2015 10:30:00 AM

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Some people actually change after marriage. I know in huskers world that is impossible. But I know some wonderful couples who were great but then one got involved in an affair or substance abuse . Something you could not have possibilily forseen years before despite huskers cyrstal ball.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I also agree that people divorce too easily and too soon. But I also believe that some children are better off without both parents. If there is an abusive parent, or a parent that parades their affair around, or drugs, all of those things don't need to be around children. Husker lives in a world of perfection. Not all of us do. And what really pisses me off is when people tell you to stay in a bad marriage. I grew up in a family where I watched my dad call my mom names. He would degrade her. I remember him clearly telling her when he came home from work at the end of the day that he had to work around beautiful women all day long and come home to something like her at the end of the day. As a child I questioned my mom about this. I asked her why she allowed him to treat her that way. She told me, "When you love someone, you overlook the bad in them and you learn to deal with the things you don't like. That's what love is about." NO! That is not what love is about. Love is not about allowing someone to degrade and humiliate you. And does ANYONE stop to think what the hell the kids learn from living in THAT environment? Here's what they learn. They learn that it's okay to allow yourself to be abused. It's okay to let people walk all over you and treat you like crap. So then they grow up and they date people who treat them like crap and they think, "Hey, this is what love is! I mean, I've even been TOLD this is what love is." So I just can't get behind this stay together at all costs.

I was young and stupid and married an idiot. Why? Because I was TRAINED to marry an idiot. That's what I was TAUGHT. How would I know any better? Do I think my kids have suffered since my divorce? Absolutely 100%. But their sperm donor no longer brings his women home and and I no longer have to drag him out of bars or wonder why he hasn't come home in three weeks. Usually he was off with a woman or drugs. Are kids resilient? I think they're more resilient than we give them credit for. Is divorce hard for them? Absolutely.

The truth is though that even when divorce is needed the fighting usually ends up carrying over well after the divorce. I know very few people who, after the divorce, can sit down and talk about the kids and get along and be equal partners in raising the kids. That would be the best scenario if you have to divorce but it rarely happens.

People DO need to try harder. But like LGS said, in the end you are only in control of yourself. You can't MAKE your spouse want to stay married.

NAOW · Vette's SS

Domestic Engineer wrote:
I married a guy that I attended church with and had known his grandfather for many years. While I worked so he could finish college, he became a drug addict and womanizer. I didn't want a divorce, but after going to counseling where he stated that he wanted to stay married as long as he didn't have to give up his drugs or other women, I finally filed for divorce. Even though I had a Biblical reason for a divorce, I was so embarrassed that I had become a divorce statistic.

DD has no memories of living as a family with her bio-dad. After I remarried, he signed her over for adoption and went on his merry way. His wife #2 disappeared, never to be heard from again. Live-in girlfriend died from a drug overdose in his bed. He had another child that was taken by CPS. I firmly believe I made the right decision to protect our DD and leave.

Under certain situations, God permits divorce, it is not man's place to restrict what God permits.

It sounds like you are very fortunate to have gotten out of that marriage. I understand that it was really for the best that he gave up his rights to your daughter but I can't imagine how hard that would be for you that he could do it.

wild_blue · Newbie

I was so happy when my parents finally divorced. Their incessant fighting(most of it instigated by dad) made everyone miserable. I couldn't relax in my own damn home.

Incidentally my relationship with dad, the non-custodial parent, is currently stronger than my relationship with mom.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Well, in defense of the article, I think parents fighting so much or cheating on their spouse is still a selfish thing that is harming the kids. Yes, some people need to kick their jerk spouse to the curb - but jerk spouse is still being the selfish one in regard to what is good for the kids. Parents who fight incessantly in front of their children pretty much have the same attitude as the article is talking about - or they are not thinking at all. I mean, truly -if divorce is really the better option for the kids - that's a pretty messed up situation, even if it is only the real fault of one of the parents.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

For anyone to say another didn't do this or needed to do that or thinks they have the answers for another's marriage is showing they really have ZERO experience with what they are talking about.

Every person is different. Every marriage is different.

I know what I did and what I didn't do. I realize my decision affected my kids profoundly. I knew that then and I know that now.

I also know I am the one who had to make the hardest decision of my life and did what was right for all of us.

I do not regret my decision to marry. I do not regret my decision to divorce.

I do regret that I hurt my kids.

At the same time, given the same circumstances, I would make the same decision to divorce again.

I don't tell anyone they "didn't try hard enough". I have no idea what they have been through. What they had to endure. I won presume to know more than they do about their marriage or divorce.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I see some spouses who have tried mightily. But, the other spouse was simply unwilling. No amount of trying will work if you can't find a meeting of the heart and minds somewhere along the way.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Exactly. It takes two.

I guess it is valiant to sacrifice your life spending it with someone out of a matter of commitment.

Some times you weigh the consequences and choose the lesser of two evils.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
For anyone to say another didn't do this or needed to do that or thinks they have the answers for another's marriage is showing they really have ZERO experience with what they are talking about.

Every person is different. Every marriage is different.

I know what I did and what I didn't do. I realize my decision affected my kids profoundly. I knew that then and I know that now.

I also know I am the one who had to make the hardest decision of my life and did what was right for all of us.

I do not regret my decision to marry. I do not regret my decision to divorce.

I do regret that I hurt my kids.

At the same time, given the same circumstances, I would make the same decision to divorce again.

I don't tell anyone they "didn't try hard enough". I have no idea what they have been through. What they had to endure. I won presume to know more than they do about their marriage or divorce.

Um, I've been married 23 years. Not to the finish line, yet, but that's quite a bit of experience.

People like to say things like "well, walk in another person's shoes".

Whatever. I made the choices I did to AVOID some of the things that other people walk in.

huskerbb · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I see some spouses who have tried mightily. But, the other spouse was simply unwilling. No amount of trying will work if you can't find a meeting of the heart and minds somewhere along the way.

Sure, SOME marriages have to end. Sometimes people don't choose well in the first place.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Yes Husker. We all know you have that magical crystal ball and see all and know all.

You may have been married for 23 years. You have the experience of being married 23 years. So happy for you.

But you have ZERO experience in what it is like to have a marriage fall apart. So no. You have NOTHING to add.

I have lived with my choices. I have seen the repercussions. I know EXACTLY what a divorce costs, and I am NOT talking money.

That makes me uniquely more qualified than you on the subject of divorce.

If you feel the need to judge, go ahead. I am the one who will have to give an account for my actions some day. I am to the point I don't really care what you or anyone else has to say about the subject.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Yes Husker. We all know you have that magical crystal ball and see all and know all.

You may have been married for 23 years. You have the experience of being married 23 years. So happy for you.

But you have ZERO experience in what it is like to have a marriage fall apart. So no. You have NOTHING to add.

I have lived with my choices. I have seen the repercussions. I know EXACTLY what a divorce costs, and I am NOT talking money.

That makes me uniquely more qualified than you on the subject of divorce.

If you feel the need to judge, go ahead. I am the one who will have to give an account for my actions some day. I am to the point I don't really care what you or anyone else has to say about the subject.

Um, duh. Of course not. I didn't want that so I made choices to avoid it.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

lilyofcourse wrote:
Yes Husker. We all know you have that magical crystal ball and see all and know all.

You may have been married for 23 years. You have the experience of being married 23 years. So happy for you.

But you have ZERO experience in what it is like to have a marriage fall apart. So no. You have NOTHING to add.

I have lived with my choices. I have seen the repercussions. I know EXACTLY what a divorce costs, and I am NOT talking money.

That makes me uniquely more qualified than you on the subject of divorce.

If you feel the need to judge, go ahead. I am the one who will have to give an account for my actions some day. I am to the point I don't really care what you or anyone else has to say about the subject.

Now that is quite a ridiculous thing to say. You think it's EASY to make a marriage work for 23 years? I'm quite sure they have had issues over all those years and worked through them. To say someone who has managed a successful marriage has no insight into what that takes and avoiding divorce is quite disingenuous. But hey - if you want to be seen as the expert on divorce, have at it.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

That is not what I said and you know it.

It is work to make a marriage last.

But until you experience divorce, you cant say you know what it is like.

That's like a teacher saying she knows what it is like to raise kids but has no kids to raise.

And to tell someone who is divorced "they should have chose better" is really not helpful. It's one of those DUH comments.

Those who have not had to live through it don't begin to know what a slap in the face it is.

And don't pretend to know a divorced person came to conclusion that divorce was the only option. Don't presume to think you know better than they in that situation.

To say what "should happen" and what "should be done" is really irrelevant. We all know what "should" be. But that doesn't mean it WILL be.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I understand completely that Husker's "you should have made better choices" argument doesn't sit well and that nobody has a crystal ball - but you dismissing it completely is not really correct, either. Most people who get a divorce WISH they had made better choices. When kids are involved, it is hard to "regret" those choices that brought the children into their lives - but knowing everything you know about your ex now - would you have made the same choice?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Yes Husker. We all know you have that magical crystal ball and see all and know all.

You may have been married for 23 years. You have the experience of being married 23 years. So happy for you.

But you have ZERO experience in what it is like to have a marriage fall apart. So no. You have NOTHING to add.

I have lived with my choices. I have seen the repercussions. I know EXACTLY what a divorce costs, and I am NOT talking money.

That makes me uniquely more qualified than you on the subject of divorce.

If you feel the need to judge, go ahead. I am the one who will have to give an account for my actions some day. I am to the point I don't really care what you or anyone else has to say about the subject.

Um, duh. Of course not. I didn't want that so I made choices to avoid it.

Husker, I agree that there are many people who simply refuse to see what is right in front of them. Yes, there are many people going into marriage with Screaming red flags right under their noses. But, there are some for whom they were both good people getting married. But, people change and some people change for the worse. But, I am glad you can be so ****y. I have been happily married for years as well but I have seen GOOD people have their marriages fall apart who made apparently good choices. But, whatever.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
I understand completely that Husker's "you should have made better choices" argument doesn't sit well and that nobody has a crystal ball - but you dismissing it completely is not really correct, either. Most people who get a divorce WISH they had made better choices. When kids are involved, it is hard to "regret" those choices that brought the children into their lives - but knowing everything you know about your ex now - would you have made the same choice?

That question simply cannot be answered. If you have kids, you love who they are and a part of who they are is the Ex. So, what difference does it really make anyway what choice you might have made instead? You didn't so you go forward from where you are. Wasting a lot of time with the what ifs is just wasting a lot of time.

huskerbb · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Yes Husker. We all know you have that magical crystal ball and see all and know all.

You may have been married for 23 years. You have the experience of being married 23 years. So happy for you.

But you have ZERO experience in what it is like to have a marriage fall apart. So no. You have NOTHING to add.

I have lived with my choices. I have seen the repercussions. I know EXACTLY what a divorce costs, and I am NOT talking money.

That makes me uniquely more qualified than you on the subject of divorce.

If you feel the need to judge, go ahead. I am the one who will have to give an account for my actions some day. I am to the point I don't really care what you or anyone else has to say about the subject.

Um, duh. Of course not. I didn't want that so I made choices to avoid it.
Husker, I agree that there are many people who simply refuse to see what is right in front of them. Yes, there are many people going into marriage with Screaming red flags right under their noses. But, there are some for whom they were both good people getting married. But, people change and some people change for the worse. But, I am glad you can be so ****y. I have been happily married for years as well but I have seen GOOD people have their marriages fall apart who made apparently good choices. But, whatever.

I've seen a lot of good people get divorced--but at least one of them, and usually both, didn't make good choices. That's why they are getting divorced.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lawyerlady wrote:
I understand completely that Husker's "you should have made better choices" argument doesn't sit well and that nobody has a crystal ball - but you dismissing it completely is not really correct, either. Most people who get a divorce WISH they had made better choices. When kids are involved, it is hard to "regret" those choices that brought the children into their lives - but knowing everything you know about your ex now - would you have made the same choice?

Yes. I would. Because it made ME grow as a person but more importantly I have beautiful children whom I love and cherish and wouldn't trade for the world. No matter how hard the struggle was after the divorce.

voiceofreason · Guru

I would marry my first husband again. He was a good man who fell for a broken woman. I take 100% of the blame. Seriously, we were both too young but I came from some tragically ****ed up family dynamic. Our marriage didn't stand a chance.

TOTALLY GEEKED!

'Kids Are Resilient' and 7 Other Lies Divorcing Parents Should Stop Believing