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Post Info TOPIC: Colorado baker faces complaint for refusing anti-gay message on cake


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Colorado baker faces complaint for refusing anti-gay message on cake
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Colorado baker faces complaint for refusing anti-gay message on cake

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Jan. 20, 2015: Bakery owner Marjorie Silva stands for a photo inside her own Azucar Bakery, in Denver. (AP)

A dispute over a cake in Colorado raises a new question about gay rights and religious freedom: If bakers can be fined for refusing to serve married gay couples, can they also be punished for declining to make a cake with anti-gay statements?

A baker in suburban Denver who refused to make a cake for a same-sex wedding is fighting a legal order requiring him to serve gay couples even though he argued that would violate his religious beliefs.

 
 

But now a separate case puts a twist in the debate over discrimination in public businesses, and it underscores the tensions that can arise when religious freedom intersects with a growing acceptance of gay couples.

Marjorie Silva, owner of Denver's Azucar Bakery, is facing a complaint from a customer alleging she discriminated against his religious beliefs.

According to Silva, the man who visited last year wanted a Bible-shaped cake, which she agreed to make. Just as they were getting ready to complete the order, Silva said the man showed her a piece of paper with hateful words about gays that he wanted written on the cake. He also wanted the cake to have two men holding hands and an X on top of them, Silva said.

She said she would make the cake, but declined to write his suggested messages on the cake, telling him she would give him icing and a pastry bag so he could write the words himself. Silva said the customer didn't want that.

"It's just horrible. It doesn't matter if, you know, if you're Catholic, or Jewish, or Christian, if I'm gay or not gay or whatever," said Silva, 40, adding that she has made cakes regularly for all religious occasions. "We should all be loving each other. I mean there's no reason to discriminate."

Discrimination complaints to Colorado's Civil Rights Division, which is reviewing the matter, are confidential. For that reason, Silva declined to share the correspondence she has received from state officials on the case. KUSA-TV reported the complainant is Bill Jack of Castle Rock, a bedroom community south of Denver.

In a statement to the television station, Jack said he believes he "was discriminated against by the bakery based on my creed."

"As a result, I filed a complaint with the Colorado Civil Rights Division. Out of respect for the process, I will wait for the director to release his findings before making further comments."

Jack did not respond to emails from The Associated Press seeking comment. No one answered the door at the address listed for Jack in Castle Rock.

The case comes as Republicans in Colorado's Legislature talk about changing the state law requiring that businesses serve gays in the wake of a series of incidents where religious business owners rejected orders to celebrate gay weddings. Republican Sen. Kevin Lundberg said the new case shows a "clash of values" and argued Colorado's public accommodation law is not working.

"The state shouldn't come in and say to the individual businessman, 'You must violate your religious — and I'll say religious-slash-moral convictions. This baker (Silva), thought that was a violation of their moral convictions. The other baker, which we all know very well because of all the stories, clearly that was a violation of their religious convictions," Lundberg said.

But gay rights advocates say there is a significant difference in the cases. Silva refused to put specific words on a cake while Jack Phillips, the baker who turned away the gay couple, refused to make any wedding cake for them in principle.

"There's no law that says that a cake-maker has to write obscenities in the cake just because the customer wants it," said Mark Silverstein, legal director of the American Civil Liberties Union in Colorado.

Phillips' attorneys had argued in court that requiring him to prepare a gay marriage cake would be akin to forcing a black baker to prepare a cake with a white supremacist message. But administrative law judge Robert N. Spencer disagreed, writing that business owners can refuse a specific message, but not service.

"In both cases, it is the explicit, unmistakable, offensive message that the bakers are asked to put on the cake that gives rise to the bakers' free speech right to refuse," administrative law judge Robert N. Spencer said.

Phillips' attorney, Nicolle Martin, said she has sympathy for Silva, arguing she is in the same category as her client. "I absolutely support her right to decline," Martin said. "I support her right as an American to pick and choose the messages she will express."

Silva said she remains shaken up by the incident. "I really think I should be the one putting the complaint against him, because he has a very discriminating message," she said.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/22/colorado-baker-faces-complaint-for-refusing-anti-gay-message-on-cake/?intcmp=latestnews


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Reaaly? Ugh.

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What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

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Yup, she should be forced to make the cake the way the patron wants, not the way she wants. To bad, so sad. Just like the other bakery. I see no difference whatsoever.

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Oh ffs.

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We have been asked to print nasty stuff on shirts on a couple of occasions. We solved the problem of our conscience by donating the sales amount to the opposing cause. In the case of one woman who was so snotty, one the bottom of her invoice I had printed "A donation in the amount of "invoice amount" has been made in your name to Planned Parenthood."

She hasn't been back...je suis desole (NOT)

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JPT wrote:

We have been asked to print nasty stuff on shirts on a couple of occasions. We solved the problem of our conscience by donating the sales amount to the opposing cause. In the case of one woman who was so snotty, one the bottom of her invoice I had printed "A donation in the amount of "invoice amount" has been made in your name to Planned Parenthood."

She hasn't been back...je suis desole (NOT)


 I love you!  



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JPT wrote:

We have been asked to print nasty stuff on shirts on a couple of occasions. We solved the problem of our conscience by donating the sales amount to the opposing cause. In the case of one woman who was so snotty, one the bottom of her invoice I had printed "A donation in the amount of "invoice amount" has been made in your name to Planned Parenthood."

She hasn't been back...je suis desole (NOT)


You can do what you want, but I don't that would be particularly good for your business.  And, if someone donated to PP in my name, I would probably file a lawsuit. 



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Vette's SS!!

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This smacks of a stunt, and a stupid one. There is a huge difference between a person wanting a cake that celebrates a special occasion and a cake that deliberately holds offensive language. If I was the judge, I would throw this out.

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It does sound like a stunt, however, it is a fair question. Can you force people to do things against their conscience?

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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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I think this case is stupid and should be thrown out. Of course, I think the cases on the other side of the argument should be thrown out, too.

BUT, this is a difference - they are requesting HER to write, draw, whatever, the offensive language. That's different than just making a cake.

Generally speaking, I don't think either "side" should be able to force anyone to make them a cake.



And yes, this is a stunt - but so are so many of the other lawsuits. They set people up and then sue them.

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JPT wrote:

We have been asked to print nasty stuff on shirts on a couple of occasions. We solved the problem of our conscience by donating the sales amount to the opposing cause. In the case of one woman who was so snotty, one the bottom of her invoice I had printed "A donation in the amount of "invoice amount" has been made in your name to Planned Parenthood."

She hasn't been back...je suis desole (NOT)


That is awesome!   



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
JPT wrote:

We have been asked to print nasty stuff on shirts on a couple of occasions. We solved the problem of our conscience by donating the sales amount to the opposing cause. In the case of one woman who was so snotty, one the bottom of her invoice I had printed "A donation in the amount of "invoice amount" has been made in your name to Planned Parenthood."

She hasn't been back...je suis desole (NOT)


You can do what you want, but I don't that would be particularly good for your business.  And, if someone donated to PP in my name, I would probably file a lawsuit. 


 Well, it truly was only a couple of times, and this was the only case where I actually put it on her invoice.  She was as snotty and insulting a bitch that ever walked into my shop.  It was years ago, and it hasn't hurt me one bit.



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I think doing something is someone else's name is terrible. So, you can find that amusing but I don't.

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JPT


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...shhh, JPT sends off a donation to the ACLU, NAACP, PP and the DNC in LGS's name...

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I sent money to Sarah Palin's Pac fund in your name. And, the NRA and the National Right to LIfe.

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I want a check! Cough it up!

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

I sent money to Sarah Palin's Pac fund in your name. And, the NRA and the National Right to LIfe.


 I'm sure if you really tried, you could find a "Save Traditional Marriage" group as well. 



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I'm giggling here!


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Itty bitty's Grammy

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Just send me $$$$$$.

I'll buy wine that I don't like...LOL

flan

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I would like to know what these "nasty" words are. Was it a Bible verse? If so then she is refusing him a religious freedom.

He isn't asking her to take it to a venue, spend time setting it up, preparing the table and working with whatever group he is with.

Yes. File the suit.

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Phillips' attorney, Nicolle Martin, said she has sympathy for Silva, arguing she is in the same category as her client. "I absolutely support her right to decline," Martin said. "I support her right as an American to pick and choose the messages she will express."

So, if they baker that refused the gay couple refused place a cake topper that had two grooms or two brides, would that be the same? Cause it seems like it to me...

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Nothing's Impossible

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My tattoo parlor won't do profanity, I guess people can sue them too.

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Southern_Belle wrote:

My tattoo parlor won't do profanity, I guess people can sue them too.


 How many tattoos do you have?

flan



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Nothing's Impossible

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just 4

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Itty bitty's Grammy

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Southern_Belle wrote:

just 4


 I have 6!

And I have an idea for #7.

flan



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Nothing's Impossible

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I have an idea for #5, lol.

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Itty bitty's Grammy

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Southern_Belle wrote:

I have an idea for #5, lol.


 I love the tattoos on Pinterest!

flan



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just Czech wrote:

Yup, she should be forced to make the cake the way the patron wants, not the way she wants. To bad, so sad. Just like the other bakery. I see no difference whatsoever.


Yep. 



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Yup yup!

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flan327 wrote:
Southern_Belle wrote:

I have an idea for #5, lol.


 I love the tattoos on Pinterest!

flan


 Me too, I look a lot. 



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dSZ1D.jpgIf I EVER got another tattoo, it would be this...



Attachments
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Nothing's Impossible

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Those are so cool!

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Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

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That made my stomach turn.

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My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

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Mine too NJN.



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Itty bitty's Grammy

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Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

That made my stomach turn.


 Me three...

flan



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Frozen Sucks!

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LET BUSINESS OWNERS DO WHAT THEY WANT! If people don't like it, they won't be customers, that is the beauty of capitalism. Some businesses will fail, others will thrive. As long as it doesn't cross the race lines why should it matter?

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"We have been asked to print nasty stuff on shirts on a couple of occasions. We solved the problem of our conscience by donating the sales amount to the opposing cause. In the case of one woman who was so snotty, one the bottom of her invoice I had printed "A donation in the amount of "invoice amount" has been made in your name to Planned Parenthood." " - JPT


That. Is. Awesome!

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I think that here, it wasn't "religiously protected" but "hate speech" that was the issue.

From the OP: "Just as they were getting ready to complete the order, Silva said the man showed her a piece of paper with hateful words about gays that he wanted written on the cake. He also wanted the cake to have two men holding hands and an X on top of them, Silva said."

The key difference between this cake and the gay people wanting a cake for their wedding is that this was about hate speech, and the gay wedding cake wasn't about hate, but about love and marriage.

No Judge in his or her right mind should take this case. It should be thrown out immediately. If I were the judge that it was put before, I'd even considering filing something with the State Bar against the filing attorney for filing a frivolous lawsuit (don't know the law on that so don't know if it could be done or not, though).

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I know what to do_sometimes wrote:

LET BUSINESS OWNERS DO WHAT THEY WANT! If people don't like it, they won't be customers, that is the beauty of capitalism. Some businesses will fail, others will thrive. As long as it doesn't cross the race lines why should it matter?


 Why keep the protection of only race? 

 

Are you OK with giving up the protections for age, nationality and religion?

 



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Itty bitty's Grammy

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cadiver wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:

LET BUSINESS OWNERS DO WHAT THEY WANT! If people don't like it, they won't be customers, that is the beauty of capitalism. Some businesses will fail, others will thrive. As long as it doesn't cross the race lines why should it matter?


 Why keep the protection of only race? 

 

Are you OK with giving up the protections for age, nationality and religion?

 


Thank you!

And, at one time, it was no big deal to practice segregation.

flan 



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