TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Equality for Women

TrudyML · Guru

Burn a jock strap?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Sexism is still alive and well - it is more apparent in some areas than others. I face sexism on a regular basis in the good old boys lawyer club - I don't bitch and moan about it, but I have to work harder to be taken as seriously as male lawyers. Women have actually been fighting for rights longer than anyone, and many women in the world STILL are considered property and have no rights to speak of.

burns07 · Guru

my lady, my female siblings, my mother, my mother-in-law, both grandmothers and various aunts have all told me over the years that they are/were GLAD to be women--that they would hate being men

consider myself fortunate to have been raised / grown-up / lived / live around solid, secure women

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

The only times I have felt like it would be better if I was a guy was dealing with individuals. Like a mechanic or the schools.

And of course once a month.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Oh, don't get me wrong - I prefer being a woman, even with all its issues.

Bonny22Pye · Guru

I've had to deal with the old school boys club in Hollywood. It can be super annoying.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

And I work in a profession that is predominantly female (at least, for public libraries).

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
And I work in a profession that is predominantly female (at least, for public libraries).

flan

I have found, locally at least, that the employees of the library tend to be female, but the top position is usually filled by a male.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
And I work in a profession that is predominantly female (at least, for public libraries).

flan
I have found, locally at least, that the employees of the library tend to be female, but the top position is usually filled by a male.

During the time I worked at Indy, there were 3 female Directors, one being the current director. She's sharp.

My new library has a female Director as well.

Try finding male Children's Librarians, though...

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Women tend to be the most sexist toward other women.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Sexism certainly effects us in ways we might not even realize. No one will come out and say you are not getting this promotion because you are a woman. But there are little things that happen, that wouldn't happen if you were a man - at least to me it has. Examples:

I was told I didn't have to go to a training session, "because I had kids". Wtf? The men attending had kids, and once I brought that up, along with the fact that excluding me from a training session that would sharpen my skills for being a parent was probably not legal, I was invited to go. They told me they were trying to "be considerate of my situation". Whatever that means.

I was given feedback that I was "too critical" of procedures while a male colleague who said the same things as I was told he was "analytical and constantly challenging the way things were done in order to improve".

I have been told that I didn't "relate well to others". Yet I was also told that I managed people better than anyone else (hard to do if you don't relate well, but whatever) When I told my team I was working on "relating well to others" they laughed and said I was the most beloved leader in the building. Turns out, I was perceived as being "bitchy" by people who didn't even work with me - while my male peers who were holding their teams accountable were perceived as having high standards. No one mentioned their ability to "relate well to others" and some of them were outright *******s.

When something spilled, or needed cleaned, they called the women leaders. When something needed a team lift, they called the men.

If there was a question about a grocery item, they asked the women leaders. If it was a question about an electronics item, they called the male leaders. But our grocery leader was a male and our electronics leader was a woman, they would ask the opposite questions to them.

It isn't the big things...it's what's called "micro aggressions". A thousand little perceptions every day that you can't just "work hard" and get over or change people's opinions.

voiceofreason · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
Sexism certainly effects us in ways we might not even realize. No one will come out and say you are not getting this promotion because you are a woman. But there are little things that happen, that wouldn't happen if you were a man - at least to me it has. Examples:

I was told I didn't have to go to a training session, "because I had kids". Wtf? The men attending had kids, and once I brought that up, along with the fact that excluding me from a training session that would sharpen my skills for being a parent was probably not legal, I was invited to go. They told me they were trying to "be considerate of my situation". Whatever that means.

I was given feedback that I was "too critical" of procedures while a male colleague who said the same things as I was told he was "analytical and constantly challenging the way things were done in order to improve".

I have been told that I didn't "relate well to others". Yet I was also told that I managed people better than anyone else (hard to do if you don't relate well, but whatever) When I told my team I was working on "relating well to others" they laughed and said I was the most beloved leader in the building. Turns out, I was perceived as being "bitchy" by people who didn't even work with me - while my male peers who were holding their teams accountable were perceived as having high standards. No one mentioned their ability to "relate well to others" and some of them were outright *******s.

When something spilled, or needed cleaned, they called the women leaders. When something needed a team lift, they called the men.

If there was a question about a grocery item, they asked the women leaders. If it was a question about an electronics item, they called the male leaders. But our grocery leader was a male and our electronics leader was a woman, they would ask the opposite questions to them.

It isn't the big things...it's what's called "micro aggressions". A thousand little perceptions every day that you can't just "work hard" and get over or change people's opinions.

Very well written. Thank you!

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I don't know. I don't see a lot of things as sexist that others do. Asking a woman about food doesn't seem sexist to me. It seem normal. Same with asking guys about electronics.

I ask guys about car stuff. I ask women about household stuff. Guess I am sexist too.

Oh well.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

lilyofcourse wrote:
I don't know. I don't see a lot of things as sexist that others do. Asking a woman about food doesn't seem sexist to me. It seem normal. Same with asking guys about electronics.

I ask guys about car stuff. I ask women about household stuff. Guess I am sexist too.

Oh well.

Yes. You are.

I ask the person who knows more about that area - the leader of that area knows the most. So the leader of electronics was a woman and people still asked the man about it. He was amazing and told employees to ask her because she knew more than him. But assuming someone knows more about a subject based on their sex is sexism.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

There are thousands of ways people sift and filter other people. Is male vs female a way? Yes. So, is ugly versus attractive. So it thin vs fat. So is old vs young. So, is a southern drawl or Cajun accent versus a NY accent. So is the the way you dress or your hair style or the car you drive or how many kids you have or don't have or what your spouse does or a MILLION other things that people use daily to size you up. So, does sexism sometimes come into play? Yeah, sometimes. But, I don't feel it has ever held me back from living the life I wanted to doing exactly what I have wanted to do. I have always been of the mind that I can work hard and make my own opportunities or not.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Mellow Momma wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I don't know. I don't see a lot of things as sexist that others do. Asking a woman about food doesn't seem sexist to me. It seem normal. Same with asking guys about electronics.

I ask guys about car stuff. I ask women about household stuff. Guess I am sexist too.

Oh well.
Yes. You are.
I ask the person who knows more about that area - the leader of that area knows the most. So the leader of electronics was a woman and people still asked the man about it. He was amazing and told employees to ask her because she knew more than him. But assuming someone knows more about a subject based on their sex is sexism.

I'm good with that. I am secure enough in my womanhood to not care about what others think one way or another.

Cant please everyone all the time.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

And you've likely passed on your sexist thinking to your kids...

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

God I hope so!

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
God I hope so!

Luckily there are plenty of us who DIDN'T raise sexist children...

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

You wouldn't know true sexism if it hit you in the face.

The examples given are from a world in which you get to work, vote, seek health care, decide your own fate. The being asked about "girl" stuff is not sexist. It's a question. Simple as that.

I set out to raise strong kids secure in who they are and not worry about what others think. To not blame some abstract concept for anything. And I have done that.

Think my kids are going to do just that.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Sexism isn't an abstract concept. It's very concrete. When you don't get the raise you deserve because your actions are interpreted differently based on your sex...that's concrete sexism that effects how much money I have to raise my family.

Does sexism prevent me from having the job I want or from my kids studying the subjects they want? No. But it has prevented me from advancing my career for doing exactly what my male peers were doing.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
You wouldn't know true sexism if it hit you in the face.

The examples given are from a world in which you get to work, vote, seek health care, decide your own fate. The being asked about "girl" stuff is not sexist. It's a question. Simple as that.

I set out to raise strong kids secure in who they are and not worry about what others think. To not blame some abstract concept for anything. And I have done that.

Think my kids are going to do just that.

1. BS

2. Yes, it IS sexist.

3. Totally different from antiquated sexist notions.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Ya'll can fight you imaginary dragons. While ya'll are perpetually offended, I will continue to be happy in my womanhood.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I don't think it is sexist to acknowledge biological differences in men and women. My sons take out the trash. They clean out the gutters and mow the lawn. Dd helps care for the home in other ways. I call my sons and DH to lify heavy stuff. I expect my sons to open doors.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I don't think it is sexist to acknowledge biological differences in men and women. My sons take out the trash. They clean out the gutters and mow the lawn. Dd helps care for the home in other ways. I call my sons and DH to lify heavy stuff. I expect my sons to open doors.

Careful there. You are raising the next generation of sexist people. evileye

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I don't think it is sexist to acknowledge biological differences in men and women. My sons take out the trash. They clean out the gutters and mow the lawn. Dd helps care for the home in other ways. I call my sons and DH to lify heavy stuff. I expect my sons to open doors.

I think that's perfectly fine. I'm a female. There are things I just can't do.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I'm a "girl," but BOTH of my husbands were better cooks than me.

Go figure...and they were BOYS.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I don't think it is sexist to acknowledge biological differences in men and women. My sons take out the trash. They clean out the gutters and mow the lawn. Dd helps care for the home in other ways. I call my sons and DH to lify heavy stuff. I expect my sons to open doors.

The point is that two people, doing the exact same job, are treated differently because one is a man and one is a woman.

THAT is sexist.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I don't think it is sexist to acknowledge biological differences in men and women. My sons take out the trash. They clean out the gutters and mow the lawn. Dd helps care for the home in other ways. I call my sons and DH to lify heavy stuff. I expect my sons to open doors.
Careful there. You are raising the next generation of sexist people.

Do you have ANY idea how many women fought for YOUR rights? The right to vote, to own property, etc.

But let's treat it as a big joke.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Oh I have been called Sexist for saying that I raise my daughter different in some ways from my sons.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Oh I have been called Sexist for saying that I raise my daughter different in some ways from my sons.

Nothing wrong with that.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
I'm a "girl," but BOTH of my husbands were better cooks than me.

Go figure...and they were BOYS.

flan

That has NOTHING to do with sexism. That called skill.

See you don't know what it sexism is.

tlc · Regular

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I don't think it is sexist to acknowledge biological differences in men and women. My sons take out the trash. They clean out the gutters and mow the lawn. Dd helps care for the home in other ways. I call my sons and DH to lify heavy stuff. I expect my sons to open doors.

I don't think it's sexist to acknowledge biological differences either, but I would bet that just because your daughter is female, she can still take the garbage out, mow the lawn or clean the gutters. And I'd bet that even though your sons are male, they could probably still do housework. So, yes, making them stick to traditional gender roles is sexist.

I'm glad my sister is raising her boys to know how to run a vacuum, load and run a dishwasher, do laundry, and cook. Along with mowing the lawn, and other "manly" jobs. Everyone should know how to do all of these things.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Southern_Belle wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I don't think it is sexist to acknowledge biological differences in men and women. My sons take out the trash. They clean out the gutters and mow the lawn. Dd helps care for the home in other ways. I call my sons and DH to lify heavy stuff. I expect my sons to open doors.
I think that's perfectly fine. I'm a female. There are things I just can't do.

Oh, BS. There are very few things you cant do as a female, and they all actively involve a penis.

There are a few things I cant do because I am not strong enough. But you know what? I am stronger than some guys I know. There is basically no skill i cant master only because of my gender.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Southern_Belle wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I don't think it is sexist to acknowledge biological differences in men and women. My sons take out the trash. They clean out the gutters and mow the lawn. Dd helps care for the home in other ways. I call my sons and DH to lify heavy stuff. I expect my sons to open doors.
I think that's perfectly fine. I'm a female. There are things I just can't do.
Oh, BS. There are very few things you cant do as a female, and they all actively involve a penis.
There are a few things I cant do because I am not strong enough. But you know what? I am stronger than some guys I know. There is basically no skill i cant master only because of my gender.

I'm not that strong and I am not tall enough sometimes. I can do lots that a man can do and probably do it better. But it's not BS.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Southern_Belle wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I don't think it is sexist to acknowledge biological differences in men and women. My sons take out the trash. They clean out the gutters and mow the lawn. Dd helps care for the home in other ways. I call my sons and DH to lify heavy stuff. I expect my sons to open doors.
I think that's perfectly fine. I'm a female. There are things I just can't do.
Oh, BS. There are very few things you cant do as a female, and they all actively involve a penis.
There are a few things I cant do because I am not strong enough. But you know what? I am stronger than some guys I know. There is basically no skill i cant master only because of my gender.

I can do those things. I just don't WANT to. So what?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

tlc wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I don't think it is sexist to acknowledge biological differences in men and women. My sons take out the trash. They clean out the gutters and mow the lawn. Dd helps care for the home in other ways. I call my sons and DH to lify heavy stuff. I expect my sons to open doors.
I don't think it's sexist to acknowledge biological differences either, but I would bet that just because your daughter is female, she can still take the garbage out, mow the lawn or clean the gutters. And I'd bet that even though your sons are male, they could probably still do housework. So, yes, making them stick to traditional gender roles is sexist.
I'm glad my sister is raising her boys to know how to run a vacuum, load and run a dishwasher, do laundry, and cook. Along with mowing the lawn, and other "manly" jobs. Everyone should know how to do all of these things.

I didn't say they didn't do those things as well. They are required to cook some meals, sweep, dust , vacuum and do laundry and so forth. The home is everyone's responsibility. But, yes, some things just make more sense for the men to do sometimes and vice versa. I almost never do laundry. DH doesn't mind doing it. He doesn't like to cook. I love to cook. I hate to grocery shop, he grocery shops, and so forth. You negotiate those things. But, I STILL expect my boys to hold a door for a lady so yeah.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

And I expect my daughters to hold the door for a man. That has nothing to do with sexism. It has to do with courtesy.

The problem is a million ways women are perceived as less than - that we cannot change. Like me not being invited to the training session because I had kids, while my male colleagues with kids were invited. That is sexism. Career harming sexism. It exists and we cannot fix it if we do not aknowledge it exists.

-- Edited by Mellow Momma on Saturday 7th of March 2015 07:31:02 PM

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
I'm a "girl," but BOTH of my husbands were better cooks than me.

Go figure...and they were BOYS.

flan
That has NOTHING to do with sexism. That called skill.
See you don't know what it sexism is.

Oh, please, enlighten me...NOT.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

It is not sexist to acknowledge the differences and preferences of men and women. It is sexist to dismiss or overlook or mistreat someone because of their gender.

MOST knitters are women, that's just a fact. It is not sexist to say so.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lawyerlady wrote:
It is not sexist to acknowledge the differences and preferences of men and women. It is sexist to dismiss or overlook or mistreat someone because of their gender.

MOST knitters are women, that's just a fact. It is not sexist to say so.

But it IS sexist to assume that a man doesn't like knitting simply because he is a man.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
It is not sexist to acknowledge the differences and preferences of men and women. It is sexist to dismiss or overlook or mistreat someone because of their gender.

MOST knitters are women, that's just a fact. It is not sexist to say so.
But it IS sexist to assume that a man doesn't like knitting simply because he is a man.

Sure. But does it matter if I ask the man or woman where the nearest yarn store is?

And more importantly, is it sexist to prefer some activities be just women because I am a woman? So, I invite women to my knitting circle but not men?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Not really. It is playing the odds. Most men don't like knitting so it isnt " sexist" to just make a quick assumption. Is it sexist to think some woman carries a purse? Well maybe she does not but that doesn't make someone a sexist pig for that initial thought.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
It is not sexist to acknowledge the differences and preferences of men and women. It is sexist to dismiss or overlook or mistreat someone because of their gender.

MOST knitters are women, that's just a fact. It is not sexist to say so.
But it IS sexist to assume that a man doesn't like knitting simply because he is a man.
Sure. But does it matter if I ask the man or woman where the nearest yarn store is?

And more importantly, is it sexist to prefer some activities be just women because I am a woman? So, I invite women to my knitting circle but not men?

If the men knit, then yes, you should invite them too. If you want it to be all women, then it's more of a fellowship circle who happens to knit. If khitting is the purpose and the focus, then it should not matter the sex of the participants. If talking and fellowship is the main focus, then fine. But call it what it is.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I don't want men at showers. I think its stupid.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Not really. It is playing the odds. Most men don't like knitting so it isnt " sexist" to just make a quick assumption. Is it sexist to think some woman carries a purse? Well maybe she does not but that doesn't make someone a sexist pig for that initial thought.

To me, there is a huge difference between being sexist and being a sexist pig. Sexist is telling me I don't have to go to a meeting since I have a family. Sexist pigs would tell me to get back in the kitchen and quit trying to be a man.

Playimg the odds sounds an awful lot like generalizing. It's a dangerous game...a slippery slope.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

People think way too much about this. Unless it affects my job or rights, I really don't care. Men and women are different - that's just the way it is. There is never going to be true equality - the sooner people realize that, the happier they will be.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
It is not sexist to acknowledge the differences and preferences of men and women. It is sexist to dismiss or overlook or mistreat someone because of their gender.

MOST knitters are women, that's just a fact. It is not sexist to say so.
But it IS sexist to assume that a man doesn't like knitting simply because he is a man.
Sure. But does it matter if I ask the man or woman where the nearest yarn store is?

And more importantly, is it sexist to prefer some activities be just women because I am a woman? So, I invite women to my knitting circle but not men?
If the men knit, then yes, you should invite them too. If you want it to be all women, then it's more of a fellowship circle who happens to knit. If khitting is the purpose and the focus, then it should not matter the sex of the participants. If talking and fellowship is the main focus, then fine. But call it what it is.

Well why isnt that " sexist",? So you can prefer the company of women but men cant prefer the company of men? Dont men talk and want fellowship too? Pretty "sexist". Lol

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I don't want men at showers. I think its stupid.

DH was at our baby shower for the presents only. I loved having him there. My family thought it was touching that he was so involved that he wanted to see everything.

I dont see the problem with having men at a shower. But I wouldnt judge you for not having men at yours.