TOTALLY GEEKED!

Even if it's a joke they insulted a whole group of people. Not a smart business practice.

lilyofcourse wrote:

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It's funny. It's a joke not a slam. People have zero idea of what true sexism is. This is not it.

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 In YOUR opinion.

flan

As for the tag? I'm stunned at how out of touch some businesses are. Who thought this was a good idea? Funny or not, it wasn't smart.

cadiver wrote:

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Never heard of the clothing line though.

 

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 You have now. In advertising, any publicity is good publicity.

I thought it was funny.

voiceofreason wrote:

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If the tag said, "better yet, give it to someone who knows how to do laundry" that would be humorous. Not insulting, kind of cute. Saying it's a woman's job is insulting men, in that it infers they aren't smart enough to follow directions.

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 I thought it was going to be 'give it to your mom.' That would have been funnier than what they put. 

voiceofreason wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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It's funny. It's a joke not a slam. People have zero idea of what true sexism is. This is not it.

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 lily, we've had multiple threads addressing sexism.  Each time it seems your idea of what isn't sexism is at odds with I think it is.  What is your idea of what true sexism is?  This is asked with the utmost respect. I'm actually curious.

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 Real sexism is when it is used to hurt and hold back. Blatant sexism like not getting a job when the only reason is your sex. 

and that happens so rarly now. 

The equal pay thing doesn't bother me? Why? Because no one gets the exact same pay. It isn't a list that is checked off. 

Things like this label is not anything more than a joke.

Being asked about "girl" things doesn't bother me. Assuming I know less about "guy" things doesn't bother me. 

There are so many things people are offended by now. You can't keep them straight. And honestly, I am tired of trying.

lilyofcourse wrote:

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voiceofreason wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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It's funny. It's a joke not a slam. People have zero idea of what true sexism is. This is not it.

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 lily, we've had multiple threads addressing sexism.  Each time it seems your idea of what isn't sexism is at odds with I think it is.  What is your idea of what true sexism is?  This is asked with the utmost respect. I'm actually curious.

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 Real sexism is when it is used to hurt and hold back. Blatant sexism like not getting a job when the only reason is your sex. 

and that happens so rarly now. 

The equal pay thing doesn't bother me? Why? Because no one gets the exact same pay. It isn't a list that is checked off. 

Things like this label is not anything more than a joke.

Being asked about "girl" things doesn't bother me. Assuming I know less about "guy" things doesn't bother me. 

There are so many things people are offended by now. You can't keep them straight. And honestly, I am tired of trying.

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 The unequal pay doesn't bother you? That's blatant sexism.

Bonny22Pye wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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voiceofreason wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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It's funny. It's a joke not a slam. People have zero idea of what true sexism is. This is not it.

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 lily, we've had multiple threads addressing sexism.  Each time it seems your idea of what isn't sexism is at odds with I think it is.  What is your idea of what true sexism is?  This is asked with the utmost respect. I'm actually curious.

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 Real sexism is when it is used to hurt and hold back. Blatant sexism like not getting a job when the only reason is your sex. 

and that happens so rarly now. 

The equal pay thing doesn't bother me? Why? Because no one gets the exact same pay. It isn't a list that is checked off. 

Things like this label is not anything more than a joke.

Being asked about "girl" things doesn't bother me. Assuming I know less about "guy" things doesn't bother me. 

There are so many things people are offended by now. You can't keep them straight. And honestly, I am tired of trying.

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 The unequal pay doesn't bother you? That's blatant sexism.

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 Bonny, you'd be better off just beating your head against a brick wall.

flan

Unequal pay is the height of sexism.


This label is both funny and sexist.

lilyofcourse wrote:

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No. Because no one does the exact same job, the exact same way. No one has the exact same experience or education. Comparable and exact are not the same thing.

Now if the deciding factor in pay was your sex, then fine. But that isn't the case.

I have never held a job where any two people, no matter their sex, got the same pay. So no. It doesn't bother me.

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 Wow! I certainly have.

flan

flan327 wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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No. Because no one does the exact same job, the exact same way. No one has the exact same experience or education. Comparable and exact are not the same thing.

Now if the deciding factor in pay was your sex, then fine. But that isn't the case.

I have never held a job where any two people, no matter their sex, got the same pay. So no. It doesn't bother me.

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 Wow! I certainly have.

flan

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 Same here. And if they are paying a woman less just because she is a woman, that is sexism. No other way to say it. 

Well I haven't you were paid according to ability. I got more then the other managers in my company. Men and women. No two got the exact same pay. How do I know? I did the pay roll.

msrock wrote:

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Payroll is one word. I'm doing it right now. 

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 Are you paying the men more than the women for the exact same job?

flan

flan327 wrote:

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msrock wrote:

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Payroll is one word. I'm doing it right now. 

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 Are you paying the men more than the women for the exact same job?

flan

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We don't have anyone with the "exact" same job, but I will say the men tend to make more than the women with similar jobs, but that may be because they negotiate it when they are hired.  I make more than all of the women I work with except the controller and I am her assistant so I deserve it... lol, but I've heard comments from a certain woman with more seniority than me and you know what I told her?  You should have asked for it when you got hired!  I did. And thank god because it takes 3 years to get a raise!  But honestly, the men seem to do better than the women here.

And that is what I am saying.

It isn't a big red flag for me. Nothing is equal.

NAOW wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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No. Because no one does the exact same job, the exact same way. No one has the exact same experience or education. Comparable and exact are not the same thing.

Now if the deciding factor in pay was your sex, then fine. But that isn't the case.

I have never held a job where any two people, no matter their sex, got the same pay. So no. It doesn't bother me.

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 Wow! I certainly have.

flan

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 Same here. And if they are paying a woman less just because she is a woman, that is sexism. No other way to say it. 

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 Me too.  I started at a company at the same time with same experience and the guy was making $2 more an hour than I was.  I finally found out about it when I was promoted above him and he was still making more than me.  HR ended up giving me a fat raise.

Are separate departments in stores sexist?

Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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Well I haven't you were paid according to ability. I got more then the other managers in my company. Men and women. No two got the exact same pay. How do I know? I did the pay roll.

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 How in the world is that determined? Everywhere I've ever worked, you determined goals that were measurable. But that only affected merit raise, not base pay.

flan

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 It is your manager's job to judge your ability and job performance.  And experience matters.  I would think a librarian with 30 years experience would get paid more than one with 10 years experience.

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Are you talking about new hires or how long they have worked in the same system?

flan 

Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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flan327 wrote:

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lilyofcourse wrote:

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Well I haven't you were paid according to ability. I got more then the other managers in my company. Men and women. No two got the exact same pay. How do I know? I did the pay roll.

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 How in the world is that determined? Everywhere I've ever worked, you determined goals that were measurable. But that only affected merit raise, not base pay.

flan

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 It is your manager's job to judge your ability and job performance.  And experience matters.  I would think a librarian with 30 years experience would get paid more than one with 10 years experience.

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Are you talking about new hires or how long they have worked in the same system?

flan 

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 I'm talking experience in that area.  Even though someone may be a new hire - if they already have 5 years more experience than someone else, I would expect them to get paid more right off the bat.  Now, the one with less experience could eventually surpass the other if they are better at the job.

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I guess in the systems I've worked for, things were more structured? I've never heard of anyone, except a Director, negotiating for a salary. Each position has a pay range, with a low and high salary.

But I was hired as a clerk & got my MLS while I was working.

And I've known people with 30 years' experience who had gotten a bit lazy, so often they aren't as good as someone with less experience.

flan

Lawyerlady wrote:

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I think if people with 30 years experience are making less money than everyone around them, they need to do some serious self reflection and figure out why.

We have one woman in our office that has been there forever, but her pay has only increased minimally over the years. We love her, but she is not self motivated, is one of the worst "that's not my job" people, and cannot do anything without constant direction.

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 Yeah, but "those" people never do!

Honestly, I don't know what other employees make, even my friends when I worked at Indy.

flan

Most places that have multiple locations or thousands of employees don't allow salary negotiation. The starting salary for the job is X regardless of experience, education, or other circumstances. You can ask to negotiate but it simply doesn't work. It is done to prevent discrimination - whether by gender or by race, etc. The job description determines the pay rate. Not the hiring manager.

Any place I have worked with multiple locations, or in a system such as flan's has been this way.

Now, that being said, when it comes time for a raise, women will often get downgraded for things like "being bossy" or "not getting along with others" while their male counterparts get raises for having the same behaviors which are seen as "having high standards" and "working to change the status quo". In my experience this is how men end up earning more in systems like this where everyone starts out the same.

Almost every woman I know has.

lilyofcourse wrote:

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Strange.

Could it be more perception? And I am asking seriously.

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 No, I don't think so.  Think about this - if a man takes the afternoon off to golf, nothing is thought of it.  If a woman takes an afternoon off to do her hobby, it is not treated the same way. 

A woman is often considered bitchy if she is driven and ambitious, but a man would be considered motivated. 

I think this often happens more in the professional world, and not as much in the service industry, which may be why you are not as familiar with it.  When I worked in the service industry - I did not notice as much sexism.