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Post Info TOPIC: NCAA Schools Can Absolutely Afford To Pay College Athletes, Economists Say


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NCAA Schools Can Absolutely Afford To Pay College Athletes, Economists Say
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NCAA Schools Can Absolutely Afford To Pay College Athletes, Economists Say

Posted: 03/27/2015 8:25 am EDT Updated: 9 minutes ago

pin_icon_onhover.pngJAHLIL OKAFOR
Paying NCAA student-athletes won't start the bidding wars. Players like Jahlil Okafor have long been heavily recruited by schools like Duke. | Grant Halverson via Getty Images
                                     
 
 
 

A growing chorus of critics are calling for the National Collegiate Athletic Association to pay student-athletes. Just this month, a coalition of professors banded together in support of labor rights for men’s football and basketball players. And just this week, former NCAA basketball stars Ed O’Bannon and Shane Battier said student-athletes should be compensated for their hard work.

But ask the NCAA and its member institutions whether they can afford to pay student-athletes, and their bottom line is clear: no.

That’s what the NCAA implied when The Huffington Post posed that exact question earlier this week. Spokeswoman Meghan Durham said that only 20 of the roughly 1,100 schools that constitute the NCAA make more from sports than they spend on sports, according to the association’s most recent estimates. Earlier this month, ESPN reported that over two-fifths of the teams in the March Madness tournament either broke even or lost money last year.

John Oliver wants the NCAA to pay its players, but can they afford it? (Video from YouTube)

That so many athletic programs are struggling just to break even would seem to make nonstarters out of all the ethical and legal arguments surrounding the issue. Why waste breath on such questions when the schools couldn’t afford to pay the players if they wanted to?

But when The Huffington Post asked five sports economists whether the NCAA and its member institutions could afford to pay student-athletes, the response was quite different: a resounding yes. Some of the economists were almost surprised by the question; the answer seemed so obvious to them.

“It’s pretty clear that they would be able to,” said David Berri, a professor of economics at Southern Utah University. “I don’t see any reason that they wouldn’t be able to, in fact.”

As Rodney Fort, a sports economist and professor of sports management at the University of Michigan, succinctly put it, “The money is already there.” The NCAA alone brought in nearly a billion dollars in revenue in its most recent financial year, and top-tier athletic programs regularly bring in tens of millions of dollars as well.

Sure, you might say, there’s a lot of money coming in. But if the schools are still losing money or only breaking even on their sports programs, won’t additional labor costs hurt those programs and the schools?

“That’s a silly argument,” Berri said. “They’re nonprofits, and their incentive is to spend every cent that comes in.”

“That doesn’t mean they aren’t making money,” he added. “That just means they spent all of it.”

pin_icon_onhover.pngrolltide

The money at a nonprofit needs to go somewhere, which may explain the building of many state-of-the-art facilities. (Photo: RollTide.com)

Duke’s athletic program, for example, pulled in revenue of nearly $80 million during a recent fiscal year. But it ended up with just $146,000 in excess revenue. That’s also why the NCAA had a surplus of only $80 million on $989 million in revenue for its last fiscal year.

The system is set up so that almost all the money that comes in from college athletics is soon spent.

“Schools quite often move around or spend money to basically get rid of excess revenue -- what would be called profit in a profit-making corporation,” said Michael Leeds, a professor of economics at Temple University. “‘[That’s why] you have several coaches [in the NCAA] getting paid NFL money, despite working for an enterprise that really does not match what the New England Patriots and the New York Giants take in.”

That would explain why some universities end up with state-of-the-art sports facilities. Or why Duke basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski makes nearly $10 million per year, much more than the typical NBA coach. Or why in so many states, the best-paid public employee is a basketball or football coach.

pin_icon_onhover.pngv

That's a lot of coaches. (Source: Deadspin)

To pay the players would simply require a reallocation of resources, the economists said. Assuming the university declined to increase the football or basketball team's funding, that program would just have to move the money from some other part of its budget.

Most of the economists agreed that it would likely be the highly paid coaches and athletic directors who would take the hardest hit if players were paid. Andrew Zimbalist, the Robert A. Woods professor of economics at Smith College, said that it might take a few years for head coaches’ salaries to adjust to the new economic reality, but in time there would probably be less pay for people like Coach K.

That would explain in part why some coaches so vehemently oppose the idea of a system in which players get paid.

“The coaches very likely are very upset over [the prospect of] players being paid because, for one thing, that means a pay cut for them,” Leeds said.

pin_icon_onhover.png
“A for-profit business would not give Mike Krzyzewski $10 million,” said Southern Utah professor David Berri. (Photo: AP)

But Stefan Szymanski, a sports economist working in the sport management department at the University of Michigan, argued that head coaches should not fear a world in which student-athletes get paid.

“I don’t see the process by which coaches suddenly become less valuable,” he said. “I think they’ll [just] demand a bigger allocation from the university.”

The coaching change that Szymanski expects if players start making money is not one of pay levels, but one of skills valued. In a world in which student-athletes are paid, he said, coaches would likely be compensated less for their recruiting abilities -- the money will talk, after all -- and more for their coaching abilities.

David Carter, executive director of the USC Marshall Sports Business Institute, agreed with the economists’ conclusion that many top athletic programs could afford to pay players without any “devastating effects.” But he worried that such a change would lead to “further polarization” between the haves and have-nots of college sports.

That concern is the same one voiced by President Barack Obama in a sit-down interview with HuffPost last week. Obama expressed some frustration with the way universities treat student-athletes -- suggesting that universities guarantee four-year athletic scholarships for students in good standing -- but said paying athletes would lead to “bidding wars” that would “ruin the sense of college sports."

To a degree, that’s likely true. Sports programs at smaller colleges often have tighter budgets than the big names, and they might not choose to shift resources to pay student-athletes even if it were legal. That could hurt them in recruiting efforts.

But as the economists noted, the bidding wars Obama fears are already being waged. Duke basketball is already a powerhouse; Kentucky basketball is already a recruiting machine. Allowing colleges to pay players may give the top-tier programs with their greater revenue streams an additional recruiting advantage, but they already offer famous coaches, first-class facilities, greater visibility and a better shot at the big time, on top of the permitted scholarships. Jahlil Okafor already chose Duke, and Karl-Anthony Towns already goes to Kentucky.

HuffPost asked the five schools in the March Madness tournament that lost money on their athletic programs last year and the five schools that earned the most profit about paying their student-athletes. None of them directly addressed the issue.

So, yes, there are still moral and legal concerns about paying student-athletes. But when it comes to whether the NCAA and its member institutions can afford it, the answer appears to be absolutely yes -- and that shouldn’t be surprising.

“This is not arcane theory,” Leeds said. “This is something that ‘Intro to Econ 101’ students would be able to tell you.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/27/ncaa-pay-student-athletes_n_6940836.html

 

 



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But the article focused on Duke. Sure, schools like Duke that pull in millions in revenue probably could afford to pay their athletes. So could Ohio State, Alabama, Nebraska, Michigan, Georgia, Texas, etc...

But what about Hampton? Marquette? St. Joseph's? They don't have the same kind of revenue that those other schools have.

Sure, if you are going to cherry pick schools whose athletic programs are flush with cash--then yeah, those schools can afford to pay them.

Many schools have athletic departments that must be funded by taxpayers or other university funds.

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huskerbb wrote:

But the article focused on Duke. Sure, schools like Duke that pull in millions in revenue probably could afford to pay their athletes. So could Ohio State, Alabama, Nebraska, Michigan, Georgia, Texas, etc...

But what about Hampton? Marquette? St. Joseph's? They don't have the same kind of revenue that those other schools have.

Sure, if you are going to cherry pick schools whose athletic programs are flush with cash--then yeah, those schools can afford to pay them.

Many schools have athletic departments that must be funded by taxpayers or other university funds.


 Exactly right. 

 

The D1 college DH used to coach at just cut both men's and women's tennis. There is no way that a school that is cutting programs could afford to pay athletes. Not all schools could afford to. In fact, only a select few could afford to. 



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I thought playing sports was a privilege and a way to earn scholarships. I think the fact the media keeps harping on this is stupid.

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Oh, ok. Your talents, abilities, the sweat, hard work and effort you put in for years, You didn't Build That.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Oh, ok. Your talents, abilities, the sweat, hard work and effort you put in for years, You didn't Build That.


 They get you a scholarship to college, and if good enough, drafted to the professional leagues.  That's when you get paid.



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Yes, because they have a stranglehold and Monopoly and will not allow someone to find their true worth via a Free Market.

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You still haven't answered my question. Should HS athletes that put in JUST AS MUCH TIME AND EFFORT and college athletes be paid also? They are doing the exact same job...

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No

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Why? It's the same job...maybe a LITTLE more experience, but negligible...

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Are High Schools paying Millions to the coaches and having big TV contracts? Can minors enter into contracts?

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Are High Schools paying Millions to the coaches and having big TV contracts? Can minors enter into contracts?


Again, not all HS player are minors.  MOST seniors are over 18. 

And yes, here, the schools/county/state DO have rather large TV contracts.  All of the playoff games are televised. The state championships are often sold out (they play at a college field, although a smaller one) and a lot of people watch on TV. 



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The discussion is College athletes. I guess you need to deflect. Grown men not getting paid. Hello.

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No, you want men getting paid for doing what YOU think is a job. A job that thousands more High School players (over 18) do every day. Why should some get paid and other not? If college players get paid, then high school players should too.

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Income is being earned off their backs.

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Do u have some info on the millions HS sports bring in? Please produce some links.

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Seriously? income is being earned in High School too! Our HS has a seating capacity of 3500. At $10 a ticket, that's $35,000 a game. Our football team pays for the band, the soccer teams and the track teams with money to spare. Last year, they installed a $200,000 scoreboard with a SCREEN.

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Produce some links.

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Yeah, if I do that, then everyone will know where I live and my kids went to school. Not going to happen.

But here is an article, pretty much verifying what I was saying...

www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/high-school-football-tech-binge-adored-scorned-growing-n218071



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I am discussing college. If u want to discuss HS sports then go start a thread. Or are incapable of sticking to the topic? The biggest transgressions are in college in my opinion.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Yes, because they have a stranglehold and Monopoly and will not allow someone to find their true worth via a Free Market.


 Without the colleges - the kids don't get noticed for the pros.  It is a symbiotic relationship. 



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

I am discussing college. If u want to discuss HS sports then go start a thread. Or are incapable of sticking to the topic? The biggest transgressions are in college in my opinion.


lol!  funny.  You think grown men should be paid.  Then they ALL should be paid.  That you cannot possibly come up for a reason for HS players NOT to be paid speaks of your hypocrisy on the issue...



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Well without kids going to grade school we wouldn't have any doctors either so if that is your bizarre logic then yeah.

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College is not compulsory. Its an honor. An honer that these guys get over $100k benefit from...

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Exactly. They ARE getting paid. Most people work part-time jobs to pay their tuition and housing, and then graduate with thousands in student loans. Athletes who truly go to college for an education, which is all but a VERY FEW of them good enough to play professionally, don't have to work those part-time jobs or graduate with such debt.

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huskerbb wrote:

Exactly. They ARE getting paid. Most people work part-time jobs to pay their tuition and housing, and then graduate with thousands in student loans. Athletes who truly go to college for an education, which is all but a VERY FEW of them good enough to play professionally, don't have to work those part-time jobs or graduate with such debt.


 Seriously.  College tuition is outrageous.  That's THOUSANDS of dollars for playing a sport for a few months.



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Hooker

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Here's a novel idea! Don't play football if you think you are doing a "job" that you should be paid for! If the free education isn't enough for you, then by all means, don't play football and pay for your own education!

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I just can't get worked up about this issue.

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I think the players should get paid when their likeness is used to sell things and I think they should be able to sell their own autographs and get paid to go to conventions or host events, etc.

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Bonny22Pye wrote:

I think the players should get paid when their likeness is used to sell things and I think they should be able to sell their own autographs and get paid to go to conventions or host events, etc.


Such as?  Should they not be on the game program?  Should they not be on tickets?  What likenesses are you specifically referring to? 



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Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:

I think the players should get paid when their likeness is used to sell things and I think they should be able to sell their own autographs and get paid to go to conventions or host events, etc.


Such as?  Should they not be on the game program?  Should they not be on tickets?  What likenesses are you specifically referring to? 


 Posters, or their image on a t-shirt.  I think they should be able to control their image when their image is making money.  Not their number though.



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Do they make fathead stickers of college athletes?

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Bonny22Pye wrote:

Do they make fathead stickers of college athletes?


Not while they are playing college ball.  They make them after they go pro. I would think at that point, the players would have some say.



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and now that I think about it, I don't think there are any posters (for sale) that use the players images. I know my son had a few of University of Tennessee players, and some of Vandy baseball players (they went to school together), but those were freebees given out at games or practices...

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So how would the pay scale be set up? Because not everyone on the team has the same level of skills.

So that would cause issues between the students.

And then they would have to report those earnings which could cause some of the lower paid students to lose other monies that is helping them stay in school.

I think as long as the school handles injuries that happen during practice and games, that's all the need to do.

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Ohfour wrote:

and now that I think about it, I don't think there are any posters (for sale) that use the players images. I know my son had a few of University of Tennessee players, and some of Vandy baseball players (they went to school together), but those were freebees given out at games or practices...


 I've seen Calendars before for sure.   I just don't think they should be punished for selling autographs or licensing their image if that's what they want to do.  Now of course if they make a ton of money they could loose their scholarship, but then they would have to decide what's best for them.

I think some of the rules are a little too controlling.



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Bonny22Pye wrote:
Ohfour wrote:

and now that I think about it, I don't think there are any posters (for sale) that use the players images. I know my son had a few of University of Tennessee players, and some of Vandy baseball players (they went to school together), but those were freebees given out at games or practices...


 I've seen Calendars before for sure.   I just don't think they should be punished for selling autographs or licensing their image if that's what they want to do.  Now of course if they make a ton of money they could loose their scholarship, but then they would have to decide what's best for them.

I think some of the rules are a little too controlling.


 I totally agree.  A few years ago, Vanderbilt had an outstanding girls basketball player.  She got a full ride.  She came from East St Louis.  If you don't know what East St Louis is, it's one of the poorest and crime ridden places in the country.  It's absolutely horrible.

Well, here was this girl who had grown up in utter poverty, now at Vanderbilt, one of the costliest and prestigious universities in the country.  If you are on full scholarship, per the NCAA, you CANNOT have a job.  That's a rule.  So she didn't have clothes, she had no spending money.  She couldn't go out to eat pizza with her teammates.  She wound up robbing a convenience store and later killed herself.

Some of the rules definitely need to be looked at...

 



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flan327 wrote:

I just can't get worked up about this issue.

flan


What?  What is the matter with you!  You MUST get worked up into a lather and have Hill to Die on Opinion about everything on this board!  Didn't you read the rules!  biggrin 



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Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

Exactly. They ARE getting paid. Most people work part-time jobs to pay their tuition and housing, and then graduate with thousands in student loans. Athletes who truly go to college for an education, which is all but a VERY FEW of them good enough to play professionally, don't have to work those part-time jobs or graduate with such debt.


 Seriously.  College tuition is outrageous.  That's THOUSANDS of dollars for playing a sport for a few months.


 It isn't just a few months - they have practice or conditioning all year round,even when their sport is not in season. The conditioning and strength and agility training goes on year round, including summers. The players are given work out packets to complete in the summer so they show up on the first day in shape. People who say it's only for a few months really don't understand what is asked of these students. It's a 40 hour a week job in season and about 20-30 hours a week out of season. That's why the NCAA won't let them get jobs -that and because of the alumni who would create fake jobs for the athletes and pay them for not showing up to work. 



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Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

Exactly. They ARE getting paid. Most people work part-time jobs to pay their tuition and housing, and then graduate with thousands in student loans. Athletes who truly go to college for an education, which is all but a VERY FEW of them good enough to play professionally, don't have to work those part-time jobs or graduate with such debt.


 Seriously.  College tuition is outrageous.  That's THOUSANDS of dollars for playing a sport for a few months.


 It isn't just a few months - they have practice or conditioning all year round,even when their sport is not in season. The conditioning and strength and agility training goes on year round, including summers. The players are given work out packets to complete in the summer so they show up on the first day in shape. People who say it's only for a few months really don't understand what is asked of these students. It's a 40 hour a week job in season and about 20-30 hours a week out of season. That's why the NCAA won't let them get jobs -that and because of the alumni who would create fake jobs for the athletes and pay them for not showing up to work. 


 Of course they have to stay in shape.  It still doesn't change anything.  They don't HAVE to play.  They can pay tuition with cash money and loans like the other people that don't play sports.  It is a privilege to receive a scholarship to college and if sports is how they get it, then they ARE being compensated.



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Well yeah. And, nobody has to be a teacher or a nurse or an electrician or anything else either. Hello.

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Lawyerlady wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

Exactly. They ARE getting paid. Most people work part-time jobs to pay their tuition and housing, and then graduate with thousands in student loans. Athletes who truly go to college for an education, which is all but a VERY FEW of them good enough to play professionally, don't have to work those part-time jobs or graduate with such debt.


 Seriously.  College tuition is outrageous.  That's THOUSANDS of dollars for playing a sport for a few months.


 It isn't just a few months - they have practice or conditioning all year round,even when their sport is not in season. The conditioning and strength and agility training goes on year round, including summers. The players are given work out packets to complete in the summer so they show up on the first day in shape. People who say it's only for a few months really don't understand what is asked of these students. It's a 40 hour a week job in season and about 20-30 hours a week out of season. That's why the NCAA won't let them get jobs -that and because of the alumni who would create fake jobs for the athletes and pay them for not showing up to work. 


 Of course they have to stay in shape.  It still doesn't change anything.  They don't HAVE to play.  They can pay tuition with cash money and loans like the other people that don't play sports.  It is a privilege to receive a scholarship to college and if sports is how they get it, then they ARE being compensated.


 I agree with you 100%. I was just clarifying that it is not "for a few months" as you stated. It's much much more than that. 



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Well yeah. And, nobody has to be a teacher or a nurse or an electrician or anything else either. Hello.


But those people are PAYING for the education to acquire their skills.  Athletes are getting their education in exchange for their athletic talent.  It's a fair trade.  



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Not really. When you look at the billions earned. I would say not.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Not really. When you look at the billions earned. I would say not.


 They are "earning" THOUSANDS of dollars--some of them several HUNDRED thousand depending on the school they are going to.   Most students don't make that in 4 years time--and thus have to take out student loans.  Scholarship athletes don't have that burden. 



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Also, MOST sports don't earn revenue. You are talking about an extremely small subset of athletes in an extremely small subset of college athletics.

The Title IX violations if they paid the football players and men's basketball players would be horrific.

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Hooker

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Fine. Pay them minimum wage and let them pay for the rest of their tuition. Would that be kosher????

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Senior Member

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LGS

On the other thread you equated it to slave labor and working for the master of the plantation. So, I do not see the difference of the age of the athlete (slave) or the money made by the plantation. A slave would be a slave.

If you want to treat it as a business; the athletes are being compensated with room, board and education. Even in the corporate world employers are allowed to compensate using room and board and unpaid interns. They can even make great profits while paying employees next to nothing.

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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Not really. When you look at the billions earned. I would say not.


 That is NOT most schools. 



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LawyerLady

 

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Guru

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Or most sports that most athletes are involved in.

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Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.

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