TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Parents' outrage after their autistic daughter is kicked off flight because she made the pilot 'feel uncomfortable'

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well, depends on what her "meltdown" entailed. And, sorry, if the pilot is uncomfortable that is the Pilot's call. And, if you want food from First Class, then you should fly First Class if it is easier on your daughter.

But, I do agree, more education is necessary in society across the board regarding autism, mental illness, and so forth. So, people can understand the difference between those types of behaviors and truly threatening or disturbing problems.

JPT · Senior Member

Well, if the child was at risk for a meltdown that could affect other passengers, then I agree with the pilot. The mother requested an item that their ticket class purchase wasn't entitled to.
So, get the kid the food, and then what happens when an hour later, she demands something else and starts pitching a fit?

huskerbb · Guru

So she wouldn't have a "meltdown" and scratch someone????

When I first read the headline, I was completely on the side of the family--but now I'm not so sure.

This is my problem with people who have kids like this. They expect that their problem becomes everyone else's. If their daughter had just taken the food they brought on the plane--none of this would have ever been an issue. It's not the fault of the airline that she didn't. It's not the fault of the airline that the kid might have "melted down".

Calm or not at the time, you shouldn't have to put up with the possibility that the kid was going to hurt another passenger.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

So much wrong with the whole thing. All around.

But I am going to stay away from this thread now because I am not always objective in these things.

huskerbb · Guru

Oh, and as far as making sure the airline employees have "training" to work with people with special needs--that is BS.

They aren't medical personnel. They cannot possibly be trained for EVERY contingency that might come up with EVERY person who has some sort of "special need".

This was on the parents to make sure their child had ZERO possibility of this "melt down"--not the airlines--and you know what the airlines do if they anticipate a passenger will have a melt down? They don't let them on the airplane. If they are already on the airplane, then they do exactly what they did.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

I think the part where they told the airline that their daughter might become violent was where it all went totally wrong. The airplane has no choice but to make an emergency landing if a passenger is at risk of becoming violent.

huskerbb · Guru

Tignanello wrote:
I think the part where they told the airline that their daughter might become violent was where it all went totally wrong. The airplane has no choice but to make an emergency landing if a passenger is at risk of becoming violent.

Exactly. They can't risk another passenger getting hurt. There is no guarantee she would have liked the food they provided any more than she liked what she had.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

This is a tough one.

The photos the mom chose show a very different child from the cell phone shot.

flan

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

They booted her off when she might maybe cause a problem, even though no one nearby felt threatened?
Just give the girl a snack, and have mom pay for it, why does everything have to be so complicated?

NAOW · Vette's SS

huskerbb wrote:
Tignanello wrote:
I think the part where they told the airline that their daughter might become violent was where it all went totally wrong. The airplane has no choice but to make an emergency landing if a passenger is at risk of becoming violent.
Exactly. They can't risk another passenger getting hurt. There is no guarantee she would have liked the food they provided any more than she liked what she had.

The airline can't win here. If they let her stay and something else set her off and she hurt another passenger, they would have problems from letting her stay when they knew she could become violent.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

'After working to accommodate Dr. Beegle and her daughter during the flight, the crew made the best decision for the safety and comfort of all of our customers and elected to divert to Salt Lake City after the situation became disruptive,' United Airlines said in a statement about the incident.

This is the part I find funny. I don't think they worked to accommodate her very hard if all it would take is to sell her some hot food.

huskerbb · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
They booted her off when she might maybe cause a problem, even though no one nearby felt threatened?
Just give the girl a snack, and have mom pay for it, why does everything have to be so complicated?

So they should wait until the girl scratches someone and then do something about it?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Someone suggested she would be more comfortable flying first class & I have to agree.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

huskerbb wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
They booted her off when she might maybe cause a problem, even though no one nearby felt threatened?
Just give the girl a snack, and have mom pay for it, why does everything have to be so complicated?
So they should wait until the girl scratches someone and then do something about it?

If that's the attitude - no one should fly, ever. You never know what ANYONE is going to do these days. This girl is disabled and protected by law. They were stupid.

FNW · Guru

I think airlines are taking more precautions with everything going on these days. They saw a potential flight risk, and they followed procedures. While I feel for the family, they should have requested special accommodations when booking their flight, rather than booking coach and expecting an upgrade.

burns07 · Guru

this is on the parents, period--the captain is responsible for everyone on the airplane--the crew, the passengers, himself/herself--it is his/her decision alone--the captain acted appropriately here without question

Mary Zombie · Guru

I missed the part where the parents said she might be violent? Is that their version of do what she wants or else?
I was more sympathetic until someone said that. If they were dumb enough to say hey she could get violent... What were they to do?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

After reading it again -

Mom said girl might have a meltdown and possibly scratch someone (I would think while people were trying to calm her).
They did give her food.
The girl calmed down and was sitting quietly.
She was then told to get off the plane.
They left cooperatively.
People on the plane couldn't believe it.

Lindley · Guru

I think this is a parent fail. They either should have bought first class tickets or fed her before she got on the plane. The pilot and crew are also not just responsible for the girl but to other passengers as well. I flew on planes that had some autistic kids on the flight and even though they may not have been to quiet they were fine and the parents were on top of it. She wasn't a small child she is a teen and who knows how strong she is. To me it would be worse for her to have to restrain her if she got out of control on the flight.

I don't think she should never fly, I just think the parents should handle it better.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I think "they should have bought first class tickets" to be really unreasonable. The ADA requires public places to make special accomodations for those with disabilities. Parents with special needs children already have a lot of extra financial stress. Just buying a first class ticket for the family is not really feasible for most people.

FNW · Guru

When you book a flight, you can request special accommodations. That was the time for the parent to do so. Not on board when your special needs child is ready to have a meltdown. Warn the airlines ahead of time, and they will make accommodations. This doesn't necessarily mean buying a first class ticket. In this case, it means have a meal available, JIC.

I feel there is another side to this story. Planes don't routinely make emergency stops unless there is a threat.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

FNW wrote:
When you book a flight, you can request special accommodations. That was the time for the parent to do so. Not on board when your special needs child is ready to have a meltdown. Warn the airlines ahead of time, and they will make accommodations. This doesn't necessarily mean buying a first class ticket. In this case, it means have a meal available, JIC.

I feel there is another side to this story. Planes don't routinely make emergency stops unless there is a threat.

If I was a pilot (given the current paranoia about violence on flights) and some stupid parent said "give me what I want or there could be violence" I would take that as a threat. You don't talk about bombs in airports and you don't threaten (or whatever) violence on an airplane.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

People with disabilities CANNOT be required to provide advance notice according to the Air Carriers Access Act. And I'm not going to believe for a second that a young girl created a "health or safety risk" that could not be handled.

Planning Your Air Travel

In general, air carriers may not require air passengers with disabilities to provide a medical certificate related to their condition. Moreover, people with disabilities cannot be required to provide advance notice that they are traveling. However, if the air carrier needs to make prior arrangements for certain services, such as a medical respirator hook-up or an incubator carriage, the air carrier can require up to 48 hours of notice.

In addition, an air carrier may not prohibit a person with a disability from traveling unless it determines that the disability is a direct threat to the health or safety of others. In that instance, the air carrier must provide the individual with a written decision of its actions. Furthermore, air carriers cannot restrict the number of persons with disabilities on a flight. However, if a group of 10 or more people with disabilities is traveling together, an air carrier can require advance notice up to 48 hours.

Finally, air carriers generally may not require disabled air passengers to travel with an attendant, except in certain situations. If the passenger asserts that he or she doesn't need an attendant, but the air carrier determines otherwise, the carrier may not charge for the attendant.

Boarding Your Flight

Air carriers are prohibited from applying different Transportation Security Administration (TSA) screening criteria to passengers with disabilities. As a result, carriers generally may not subject people with assistive devices or mobility aids to special screenings if they're cleared by the security system. However, air carriers have the discretion to examine the mobility aid or assistive device if they feel that it may be concealing a prohibited item such as a utility knife.

Air carriers must provide disabled passengers with boarding assistance if needed. They are also required to make sure that terminals are accessible to all passengers including those with wheelchairs. In addition, disabled passengers have the right to fly with their service animals free of charge. Generally, carriers must allow the service animal to sit with the passenger. In such cases, persons with disabilities generally don't have to provide documentation about their service animal prior to their flight, except in situations involving an eight hour or longer flight or an emotional support or psychiatric service animal.

Complaint Resolution Official

Each air carrier is required to provide a Complaint Resolution Official (CRO) at the airport to resolve complaints regarding violations of the ACAA. Air carriers are prohibited from charging for this service. The CRO may be available in-person or by telephone.

The CRO generally must make a written determination and provide information about the right to pursue an enforcement action with Department of Transportation (DOT). Air passengers with disabilities also may choose to file a written complaint. However, they should do so in a timely manner because air carriers aren't required to issue a response to complaints postmarked more than 45 days after the alleged act of discrimination occurred. Air passengers with disabilities can contact DOT about pursuing an enforcement action against the air carrier. DOT operates a free telephone hotline and a website where passengers can file online complaints.

Because the ACAA doesn't provide a private cause of action, people with disabilities are precluded from filing lawsuits based on alleged violations. However, other civil rights laws may provide grounds for a lawsuit against an air carrier. As a result, an attorney should be contacted for legal advice. This should be done in a timely manner, because a law known as a statute of limitations may restrict the time to pursue legal action.
- See more at: civilrights.findlaw.com/discrimination/air-passengers-with-disabilities.html

FNW · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
People with disabilities CANNOT be required to provide advance notice according to the Air Carriers Access Act. And I'm not going to believe for a second that a young girl created a "health or safety risk" that could not be handled.

Planning Your Air Travel

In general, air carriers may not require air passengers with disabilities to provide a medical certificate related to their condition. Moreover, people with disabilities cannot be required to provide advance notice that they are traveling. However, if the air carrier needs to make prior arrangements for certain services, such as a medical respirator hook-up or an incubator carriage, the air carrier can require up to 48 hours of notice.

In addition, an air carrier may not prohibit a person with a disability from traveling unless it determines that the disability is a direct threat to the health or safety of others. In that instance, the air carrier must provide the individual with a written decision of its actions. Furthermore, air carriers cannot restrict the number of persons with disabilities on a flight. However, if a group of 10 or more people with disabilities is traveling together, an air carrier can require advance notice up to 48 hours.

Finally, air carriers generally may not require disabled air passengers to travel with an attendant, except in certain situations. If the passenger asserts that he or she doesn't need an attendant, but the air carrier determines otherwise, the carrier may not charge for the attendant.

Boarding Your Flight

Air carriers are prohibited from applying different Transportation Security Administration (TSA) screening criteria to passengers with disabilities. As a result, carriers generally may not subject people with assistive devices or mobility aids to special screenings if they're cleared by the security system. However, air carriers have the discretion to examine the mobility aid or assistive device if they feel that it may be concealing a prohibited item such as a utility knife.

Air carriers must provide disabled passengers with boarding assistance if needed. They are also required to make sure that terminals are accessible to all passengers including those with wheelchairs. In addition, disabled passengers have the right to fly with their service animals free of charge. Generally, carriers must allow the service animal to sit with the passenger. In such cases, persons with disabilities generally don't have to provide documentation about their service animal prior to their flight, except in situations involving an eight hour or longer flight or an emotional support or psychiatric service animal.

Complaint Resolution Official

Each air carrier is required to provide a Complaint Resolution Official (CRO) at the airport to resolve complaints regarding violations of the ACAA. Air carriers are prohibited from charging for this service. The CRO may be available in-person or by telephone.

The CRO generally must make a written determination and provide information about the right to pursue an enforcement action with Department of Transportation (DOT). Air passengers with disabilities also may choose to file a written complaint. However, they should do so in a timely manner because air carriers aren't required to issue a response to complaints postmarked more than 45 days after the alleged act of discrimination occurred. Air passengers with disabilities can contact DOT about pursuing an enforcement action against the air carrier. DOT operates a free telephone hotline and a website where passengers can file online complaints.

Because the ACAA doesn't provide a private cause of action, people with disabilities are precluded from filing lawsuits based on alleged violations. However, other civil rights laws may provide grounds for a lawsuit against an air carrier. As a result, an attorney should be contacted for legal advice. This should be done in a timely manner, because a law known as a statute of limitations may restrict the time to pursue legal action.
- See more at: civilrights.findlaw.com/discrimination/air-passengers-with-disabilities.html

She needed special services, she should have given advance notice.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

A small mentally challenged child might have had a meltdown?? She needed a SNACK to prevent it?!?!? HORRORS OF HORRORS! SO UNREASONABLE! SUCH A THREAT!
I cannot imagine anyone suing an airline because of an upset autistic girl.
I can, however, see a whole lot of people getting upset with an airline over THROWING HER OFF THE PLANE FOR NO REASON.
Jeez. Where is the common sense or compassion these days? Give her the hot food, make mom pay a few bucks, MOVE ON. If she has a meltdown, deal with it as it happens.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

It was one hot meal. How long did it take them to nuke an extra hot meal and give it to her? A minute or two. They brought food for the girl. They did not know the girl wouldn't want the food. They could have just charged the family for the meal. None of the passengers felt threatened. Whatever the mom said or didn't say didn't seem to upset anyone on else on the plane. And she didn't need a first class seat. It was a simple meal. Sheesh, people make things way more complicated than they need to be.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
A small mentally challenged child might have had a meltdown?? She needed a SNACK to prevent it?!?!? HORRORS OF HORRORS! SO UNREASONABLE! SUCH A THREAT!
I cannot imagine anyone suing an airline because of an upset autistic girl.
I can, however, see a whole lot of people getting upset with an airline over THROWING HER OFF THE PLANE FOR NO REASON.
Jeez. Where is the common sense or compassion these days? Give her the hot food, make mom pay a few bucks, MOVE ON. If she has a meltdown, deal with it as it happens.

EXACTLY! She's autistic. Criminey. She's handicapped according to the law. Give her the food and if she has a melt down anyway THEN throw her off.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

I still don't think it was about either the handicap, the food or the potential meltdown. It was because mom threatened violence. On an airplane.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Tignanello wrote:
I still don't think it was about either the handicap, the food or the potential meltdown. It was because mom threatened violence. On an airplane.

"I'm worried she might scratch someone."

A mentally challenged child MIGHT scratch someone if she gets upset and someone was stupid enough to pester her.

What a terrible 'threat.'

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Tignanello wrote:
I still don't think it was about either the handicap, the food or the potential meltdown. It was because mom threatened violence. On an airplane.
"I'm worried she might scratch someone."
A mentally challenged child MIGHT scratch someone if she gets upset and someone was stupid enough to pester her.
What a terrible 'threat.'

A scratch is not exactly a threat of violence. Sure no one would want to be scratched. But honestly the airline blew this way out of proportion.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Tignanello wrote:
I still don't think it was about either the handicap, the food or the potential meltdown. It was because mom threatened violence. On an airplane.

No, she didn't. That was not a threat. I agree with Dona - where has all the common sense and compassion gone. Good grief, people - this is a disabled CHILD.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Tignanello wrote:
I still don't think it was about either the handicap, the food or the potential meltdown. It was because mom threatened violence. On an airplane.
No, she didn't. That was not a threat. I agree with Dona - where has all the common sense and compassion gone. Good grief, people - this is a disabled CHILD.

No, the mother did NOT threaten violence. She told them how her daughter acts when she goes into a meltdown. She was trying to avoid the meltdown. A threat would have been, if you don't get me what I want then I will allow my child to have a full fledged meltdown. The mother was only trying to describe what MIGHT happen if they didn't get the situation resolved. All it took was one hot meal. That is NOT a big deal. Sheesh, if I were flying first class and they needed a meal because of this situation I would gladly give mine up. And you can't even go into all the what if's of what might happen because once the girl got a hot meal she settled right down and was fine.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

I still don't think this is about the daughter at all. Her disability makes a great headline and invites outrage, but let's not forget that this story is from the mother's point of view. Chances are she said or did something that caused the airline to want to boot her. They don't do things like this for fun; there has to be a reason for them to do this, and my guess it is because of something inappropriate that came out of mom's mouth.

Divine Geek · Guru

Tignanello wrote:
I still don't think this is about the daughter at all. Her disability makes a great headline and invites outrage, but let's not forget that this story is from the mother's point of view. Chances are she said or did something that caused the airline to want to boot her. They don't do things like this for fun; there has to be a reason for them to do this, and my guess it is because of something inappropriate that came out of mom's mouth.

I'm with Tig. My view is the mother said more than she's telling. And now she's playing the angel. The airline is not commenting on specifics (which is common). Airlines deal with difficult and unruly passengers every day. There has to be more to this that the mother's supposed calm explanation of what "might happen".

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I think it says a lot that the other passengers were put off by the airlines actions.

FNW · Guru

I think there's more to the story.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I don't blame the pilot. It isn't like the Pilot can take a lot of time to come back and calm things down and really look at the situation. So, the Pilot has to make decisions based on the info given to him/her. Maybe it was an overreaction. But, even if it was, that doesn't mean that mom should be able to sue the airlines for a million dollars either. If it was, then fine, that happens. Pilots have to make decisions with limited information. Then give the flyers some free tickets or whatever.

Divine Geek · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
I think it says a lot that the other passengers were put off by the airlines actions.

Devil's advocate here: I see mom going up to the flight attendant in the galley and saying whatever she said. The flight attendants tell the pilot. The plane is diverted. The other passengers never hear/see anything but the girl sitting in her seat.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Divine Geek wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
I think it says a lot that the other passengers were put off by the airlines actions.
Devil's advocate here: I see mom going up to the flight attendant in the galley and saying whatever she said. The flight attendants tell the pilot. The plane is diverted. The other passengers never hear/see anything but the girl sitting in her seat.

Which means the girl was not being a problem.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I don't blame the pilot. It isn't like the Pilot can take a lot of time to come back and calm things down and really look at the situation. So, the Pilot has to make decisions based on the info given to him/her. Maybe it was an overreaction. But, even if it was, that doesn't mean that mom should be able to sue the airlines for a million dollars either. If it was, then fine, that happens. Pilots have to make decisions with limited information. Then give the flyers some free tickets or whatever.

I do. The pilot made this decision even though he is sitting locked up in his ****pit. This was a child - a disabled one. And he kicked her off the plane because she made him "uncomfortable".

Should everyone be able to do that. Hell, let's put up signs - "no autistic kids allowed, they make us uncomfortable. They might have a meltdown."

Divine Geek · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Divine Geek wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
I think it says a lot that the other passengers were put off by the airlines actions.
Devil's advocate here: I see mom going up to the flight attendant in the galley and saying whatever she said. The flight attendants tell the pilot. The plane is diverted. The other passengers never hear/see anything but the girl sitting in her seat.
Which means the girl was not being a problem.

But maybe the mother was.

Dosclaimer: I really don't have an opinion on this, just pointing out a possible scenario

burns07 · Guru

well, don't believe anyone's revealed the whole story / sequence of events--again, the parent(s) are responsible for the girl ( this wasn't some 5 / 6 year old ) but the captain is responsible for the welfare / safety of EVERYONE on the aircraft--it is his / her decision only--no other answer

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

I would be BEYOND pissed if a plane I was on made an emergency landing for something so trivial.
She had the snack, was calm, no other passenger felt threatened or bothered by her behavior.
Stupid. And discrimination. Maybe this will teach them some sense.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

burns07 wrote:

well, don't believe anyone's revealed the whole story / sequence of events--again, the parent(s) are responsible for the girl ( this wasn't some 5 / 6 year old ) but the captain is responsible for the welfare / safety of EVERYONE on the aircraft--it is his / her decision only--no other answer

It's the pilot's decision. And, the Pilot has the right to err on the side of caution. If there was ANYTHING that made my pilot feel at all uncomfortable, then yes, please put that plane on the ground.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

But, if she would have gone ape and harmed someone, then everyone would be suing too. So, damned if you do or don't.

JPT · Senior Member

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
I would be BEYOND pissed if a plane I was on made an emergency landing for something so trivial.
She had the snack, was calm, no other passenger felt threatened or bothered by her behavior.
Stupid. And discrimination. Maybe this will teach them some sense.

Yes, she was happy for the moment. What happens at the next demand for something. Maybe something like "I want to ride on the outside! I want to do it right NOW!" (Cue the screaming, kicking, scratching) And the minute a fingernail rakes the face of the poor person in front of them, cue the lawyers and arbitration judges.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

JPT wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
I would be BEYOND pissed if a plane I was on made an emergency landing for something so trivial.
She had the snack, was calm, no other passenger felt threatened or bothered by her behavior.
Stupid. And discrimination. Maybe this will teach them some sense.

Yes, she was happy for the moment. What happens at the next demand for something. Maybe something like "I want to ride on the outside! I want to do it right NOW!" (Cue the screaming, kicking, scratching) And the minute a fingernail rakes the face of the poor person in front of them, cue the lawyers and arbitration judges.

But that didn't happen. Like I said we have all the facts. You can't really what if. She ate the meal and settled right down. There was zero indication after that that she was going to have a meltdown. None of the passengers were scared. The article even states the other passengers felt the family was treated unfairly.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

And if you are going to start kicking everyone off for what they MIGHT do you're in big trouble. You're going to need to kick off all those people who MIGHT drink too much and get out of hand. Or everyone with an infant who MIGHT have a screaming baby the whole flight. Yes, let's just kick everyone off who MIGHT do something.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

It's funny.

This is a kid with an announced disability and who was removed from a plane because of what might happen. And that's OK with some of you.

But if this was a burglar breaking in to some ones house or fighting with a officer, and got shot. Well those same people would be up in arms over it. Saying the cop or owner should have waited to see what would happen.

So a criminal has more compassion than a 16 year old girl with autism.

Good to know.

TOTALLY GEEKED!

Parents' outrage after their autistic daughter is kicked off flight because she made the pilot 'feel uncomfortable'

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