Dear Prudence, Recently my 23-year-old nephew asked if we could talk man to man. He told me he was marrying his college girlfriend. He said that if my wife ever treated her as badly as she has treated his mother and his other aunt, he would not be silent about it as my brothers have been. When I replied with shock, he ran down a list of statements, actions, and other offenses my wife has committed that he has witnessed over the past 15 years. My wife has gossiped to the church leadership about my brothers and sisters-in-law, losing them positions they should have had. She ruined family events with childish demands and outbursts when I was not in the room. He suggested failures in my career could be because of her. He ended by saying his mother and aunt have never once said anything demeaning about my wife in front of him or anyone. He told of a time when he was in high school and a lady from church confronted his mother about a lie my wife had spread that the church lady believed. I have been completely unaware of any of this. I talked to our pastor, my boss, and my brothers. All have told me stories that made me sick to my stomach about how she has flirted with them when I am not around, and the horrible things my wife has done to other women. They all have assumed I knew all about this and have been allowing it to continue. After we talked, our pastor agreed to talk to the other leadership and correct the lies that have tainted my sisters-in-law. My sisters-in-law are caring, compassionate, never judge, and put family above all else. I feel like trash having exposed them to 15 years of torture, and for believing for even one second some of the things my wife has said about them. While I am sick to my stomach and worry that my own children may see this behavior and copy it, I am torn about what do to. Our pastor feels that I should address the congregation and ask forgiveness—our whole family attends the same church. He then wants me and my wife to enter counseling to repair our relationship so we can grow and she maybe can change. I want to grab my kids, hit the door, file for divorce, and then begin repairing the relationship with my family. What do you think?
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—Stunned
Dear Stunned, There’s a contradiction in your story, Stunned. You say that you have been entirely oblivious to the behavior of the apparent sociopath you’re married to. Then you note you’re sickened that you believed any of the nasty things your wife told you about your sisters-in-law. So I think that while the worst things she did may have been behind your back, you willfully decided long ago not to turn and face them. I have to disagree with your pastor’s suggestion. I don’t think it’s appropriate for you to stand in front of the congregation and say that you’ve come to realize you’re married to the spawn of Satan but that you hope with counseling (and maybe exorcism) she can be remolded into a lovely person. Sure, now that you know about the lies she’s spread, you should continue to do your best to address these and clear them up. I don’t understand the silence of your sisters-in-law. It’s one thing to turn the other cheek, it’s another to let someone claw at it for years without defending oneself. You may fantasize about fleeing with the kids, but it doesn’t work that way. First you have to tell your wife about what you’ve discovered. You’ve made a life and had children with her, and you have to find out directly what she’s been up to. If she starts lying to you, say you’ve always found your pastor to be an honest person, and he has attested to her perfidy. If you do divorce, she is the mother of your children and will continue to be a major figure in their lives—being scum is generally not reason enough to lose custody. I do agree that counseling is called for—for you. Whatever happens to your marriage going forward, you must address the fact that you have somehow sleepwalked through much of your adult life.
I used to love her But I had to kill her I used to love her, Mm, yeah But I had to kill her I had to put her six feet under And I can still hear her complain
I used to love her, Oo, yeah But I had to kill her I used to love her, Oo, yeah But I had to kill her I knew I'd miss her So I had to keep her She's buried right in my backyard Oh yeah, Oo yeah, whoa, oh yeah
I used to love her But I had to kill her I used to love her, Mm, yeah But I had to kill her She bitched so much, She drove me nuts And now I'm happier this way, yeah Whoa, oh yeah
I used to love her But I had to kill her I used to love her, Mm, yeah But I had to kill her I had to put her, Oo, six feet under And I can still hear her complain
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I think that since he hasn't actually TALKED TO HIS WIFE YET, that he might want to try that. Right now, they are all as guilty as she is doing all this behind her back.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Well for a 23 yr old guy to run down a LONG list of all the times she has wronged someone seems pretty off to me. I mean, ok, maybe she is just a Beitch. Fine. But, for him to catalog all these so called offenses over the years, um the fiancé better RUN!
He needs to talk to his wife. Whether she spread lies or not, his family is ganging up on her, and now got letter writer on the bandwagon. Why oh why would he go to the pastor behind his wife's back? Sheesh.
well, would have a hard time listening to my NEPHEW at the ripe old age of twenty-three sitting there and running down a list of MY WIFE's alleged misdeeds--probably hear the kid out and then talk TO HER--difficult to believe that a husband would be oblivious to even SOME of the things the kid alleges--in any case, would speak with her FIRST--people have different perceptions of behavior / circumstances and I'm going to believe HER before my nephew or anyone else
what a disloyal twit ( whether his wife is guilty or not )
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" the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. "--edmund burke
Then you note you’re sickened that you believed any of the nasty things your wife told you about your sisters-in-law. So I think that while the worst things she did may have been behind your back, you willfully decided long ago not to turn and face them.
I trust my husband, so if he tells me something about someone else, I will believe him. I don't think that's odd. Or is it?
To me the husband sounds like since he wasn't surprised about his wife's actions he may have been indifferent to her behavior to family and Church friends. It would mean he had to take action and now that his nephew brought it out to the open he has to take some kind of action.
I agree they need counsoling and she should be held accountable for her actions if that is indeed true. I don't thin he needs to stand before the Church to apologize for her actions. First before anything he should have gone to her first.
Sorry, but when someone comes and starts running a list of sins and someone else's Inventory, it makes me very suspicious of Them. Yeah, maybe she has issues. But, usually the one running around and doing the reporting has even bigger issues. And, for it being a 23 yr old guy, he sounds like a real idiot.
I can understand why the nephew did what he did. Some people really are blind to their spouse's actions or just don't want to admit that their spouse could do such a thing.
My sMIL became toxic to us once the kids were born. But it didn't take us 15 years to wise up and make the decision to distance ourselves. If what nephew said were true, that family would have said something to LW much sooner.
My sMIL became toxic to us once the kids were born. But it didn't take us 15 years to wise up and make the decision to distance ourselves. If what nephew said were true, that family would have said something to LW much sooner.
Not necessarily. Some families operate in 'keep the peace' mode rather than confront the offender. Never mind that people like the LW's wife often feel like they're doing no wrong and talking to their spouse rarely helps. Also never mind that not every spouse is willing to listen - much less take to heart - criticism of their spouse.
Speaking from personal experience here with family members who do the same things as the LW's wife.
True. SIL expects us to just suck it up and make nice. And it took DH years to confront his father and even then, his father just deflected.
Sounds like my FIL. Nothing is ever his fault. Ever. Even when he's the one that causes the problem. In his mind, he is the epitome of perfection. The rare time he admits he was wrong, it's something to note on the calendar. He is one of the most self-absorbed, manipulative, attention you-know-whats I've ever met.
I stand my ground with him. It was hard at first but I quickly grew a thick hide and decided I don't care what he thinks since he's incapable of actually caring about someone else. It's been a slow process but DH is finally getting to the point of understanding that his father is broken.
Sorry, but when someone comes and starts running a list of sins and someone else's Inventory, it makes me very suspicious of Them. Yeah, maybe she has issues. But, usually the one running around and doing the reporting has even bigger issues. And, for it being a 23 yr old guy, he sounds like a real idiot.
See, I don't think the nephew is a bad guy.
My take on it is, the poor nephew has spent the majority of his teen years watching this woman be hateful towards all the other women in his family and the people at church. He has witnessed her atrocious behavior, has seen the consequences, and doesn't want her anywhere near his new wife. He doesn't want the drama. Now that he is an adult and getting married, he feels he can finally step up and say something about it and when he did, he got all his frustrations out and put it all on the table. She is a mean hateful woman,and the nephew has seen her in action enough to know that he needs to go on the defensive to avoid his new wife getting all mixed up in the drama. He is protecting his new family from this abusive woman. She sounds like a total piece of work and I would try to keep her away from my family as well.
The bigger question to me is how does the OP live with her and have no clue? It seems the whole town knows she is a PITA and yet he has no idea?! Yeah, he has chosen not to see it. And now that someone is confronting him about it, he is forced to see what he was trying to avoid. At least he seems willing to confront the situation...more than my FIL was ever willing to do. He is in perpetual denial that my MIL ever did a thing wrong. So I give the OP credit for being willing to face the facts.
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Out of all the lies I have told, "just kidding" is my favorite !
have been extremely fortunate in that regard--my parents were nothing but gracious and welcoming to my lady and her parents--they literally took them into the family--as my lady's parents did with me
have several female siblings ( all professional women ) who were somewhat cooler to my lady when were newly married--as time went along and my siblings were able to see what an exceptional person my lady really is, they all came to embrace and welcome her
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" the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. "--edmund burke
If any man around here took the word of a 23 year old snit over the word of his wife, there would be hell to pay.
I call fake on this one.
He didn't. He talked to his pastor, his brothers and his boss who all confirmed the wife was a piece of work.
Fine, but she is still his wife and it is his job to stand by her. Work it out IN the marriage, not outside the marriage. That is what a real man would do.
I still call fake.
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I drink coffee so I don't kill you.
I quilt so I don't kill you.
Do you see a theme?
Faith isn't something that keeps bad things from happening. Faith is what helps us get through bad things when they do happen.
Should be stand by her if she is being destructive to his family and his church community ? I think he needs to learn to stand up to her. It's likely he avoided talking to her first because he knew she would create huge drama over it and he wanted to see if it was worth the fight to even bring up. I bet he thought the nephew would be discredited and was floored when people backed him up instead.
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Out of all the lies I have told, "just kidding" is my favorite !
If any man around here took the word of a 23 year old snit over the word of his wife, there would be hell to pay.
I call fake on this one.
Maybe--but what if he is right? What then?
I wouldn't necessarily take his word for it, but I'd certainly have some questions for my brothers and their wives.
Truth be told, I'm betting the husband DID see some of this stuff over the years, but since neither his brothers or their wives said anything about it, he probably thought it wasn't that big of a deal.
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I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
If any man around here took the word of a 23 year old snit over the word of his wife, there would be hell to pay.
I call fake on this one.
He didn't. He talked to his pastor, his brothers and his boss who all confirmed the wife was a piece of work.
Fine, but she is still his wife and it is his job to stand by her. Work it out IN the marriage, not outside the marriage. That is what a real man would do.
I still call fake.
No. It is not his job to blindly support her if she is in the wrong.
IF this is fake--then fine, that's one thing and he should support her.
However, going on the assumption that much of this is true, then what she did affects others outside of the marriage and CAN NO LONGER be contained within it.
I'm all for supporting your spouse--but what line do they have to cross before you will quit supporting them? Would you still support them if they were a pedophile or a murderer? If you wouldn't give them a pass on those things, why give them a pass on hurting other people that you purport to love?
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I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
I am not saying that her behavior is OK. As I said, she may be a total beitch. But, I still have an issue with some 23 yr old nephew keeping score for so many years, and then all of the sudden letting loose. Sorry, but that seems off to me. I can't imagine my sons going on some 2 hour rant about how some aunt "wronged" them. And, when someone is coming to tell you all the bad things about someone else, it makes me very suspicious of them. Cast the beam out of your own eye and stop running someone else's inventory.
However, if she is a beitch and the husband has been a party to that, either by pretending to be oblivious or whatever, then he needs to decide how he wants to be in this world. He certainly can go to her as the spouse and have a very frank conversation. THat may or may not change her. Maybe she is completely unaware of how she appears to other people.
I am not saying that her behavior is OK. As I said, she may be a total beitch. But, I still have an issue with some 23 yr old nephew keeping score for so many years, and then all of the sudden letting loose. Sorry, but that seems off to me. I can't imagine my sons going on some 2 hour rant about how some aunt "wronged" them. And, when someone is coming to tell you all the bad things about someone else, it makes me very suspicious of them. Cast the beam out of your own eye and stop running someone else's inventory. However, if she is a beitch and the husband has been a party to that, either by pretending to be oblivious or whatever, then he needs to decide how he wants to be in this world. He certainly can go to her as the spouse and have a very frank conversation. THat may or may not change her. Maybe she is completely unaware of how she appears to other people.
The nephew witnessed a lot of bad behavior. It is quite possible he was frustrated with his parents and aunts and uncles for not confronting the woman. Now he is an adult and is making it be known that he will not turn the other cheek.
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Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug.
I am not excusing her bad behavior. However, her behavior is her behavior. What I find odd is him keeping such a long held grudge about all this. I think his fiancé ought to take note. Just saying.
