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Post Info TOPIC: train may have been hit by object before fatal derailment


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train may have been hit by object before fatal derailment
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NTSB: Amtrak train may have been hit by object before fatal derailment

May 15, 2015 by CHAU LAM AND SARAH ARMAGHAN / chau.lam@newsday.com,sarah.armaghan@newsday.com

Emergency personnel work at the scene of a

Federal investigators said Friday they are examining damage to the Amtrak train that derailed in Philadelphia earlier this week to see if it was struck by an object before the fatal crash.

An assistant conductor, riding in the train's cafe car when it crashed, told investigators she heard a regional train engineer in the area say over the radio that his train had been "hit by a rock or shot at" and had its windshield broken, said Robert Sumwalt, a National Transportation Safety Board member in charge of the investigation. In the same conversation, she said she believed she heard the Amtrak engineer tell the other engineer that the Amtrak train -- Northeast Regional Train 188 -- had also been struck by something.

The 39-year-old assistant conductor, who was not named, said she heard the conversation between the Amtrak engineer, Brandon Bostian, and the engineer of the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority about three or four minutes after the Amtrak train left the 30th Street Station in Philadelphia, Sumwalt said at a news briefing Friday.

 

"Right after she recalled hearing this conversation, between her engineer and the SEPTA engineer, she said that she felt rumbling and her train leaned over and her car went over on its side," Sumwalt said.

His team has seen damage to the lower left-hand portion of the Amtrak train's windshield and has asked the FBI, at the scene since the crash, to look at it, Sumwalt said. Bostian was sitting on the right side of the car. Sumwalt said, however, investigators have not confirmed anything hit the Amtrak train.

SEPTA does not yet know what caused the damage to its train that night, said Jerri Williams, a spokeswoman for the agency.

The Amtrak train from Washington to New York was carrying 238 passengers and five crew members when it derailed shortly before 9:30 p.m. on Tuesday.

A little more than a minute before the fatal crash, the train was speeding up to above 70 mph, then above 80 mph, then 90 mph, finally exceeding 100 mph, investigators said. Seconds before the derailment, Bostian slammed on the emergency brakes before entering a sharp curve, investigators said.

The train, which was traveling at 106 mph, more than twice the speed limit, didn't slow much before it jumped the tracks.

The crash killed eight passengers and injured more than 200 others. NTSB investigators Friday also interviewed a second assistant conductor who was on the derailed train as well as Bostian, 32, of Forest Hills, Queens.

Bostian, however, told investigators he couldn't remember anything that happened after his train passed the North Philadelphia station, including any conversation with the regional transit engineer, Sumwalt said. Investigators Friday could not provide the distance between that station and the crash site.

"He recalls ringing the train bell as he went through the North Philadelphia station. That's not a normal station stop for him, but he's required by regulations to sound his bell as he goes through past the station stop, and he did that, and recalled doing that," Sumwalt said.

Bostian told investigators he did not feel tired or ill at the time of the derailment and he was comfortable with the equipment. "When asked, he demonstrated a very good working knowledge of the territory," Sumwalt said.

The second assistant conductor, a 35-year-old man who was in the seventh and last passenger car, said there were only radio troubles before the crash, Sumwalt said.

Investigators have said it is too early to know whether speed alone caused the crash.

Over the weekend, investigators plan to reassemble as much of the train as possible, then connect the brake lines and conduct a brake test.

Investigators have not been able to speak to the conductor, who remained hospitalized Friday night.

With Robert E. Kessler

and The Associated Press

< back to article

 



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OK? But why was the train going TWICE the speed limit?

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I heard about this!

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

OK? But why was the train going TWICE the speed limit?


One theory:

Bullet enters cab through windshield, driver (engineer) is grazed in the head, loses consciousness briefly and falls against the accelerator. (It's not a foot pedal.)

Train accelerates rapidly (which it did).

Engineer awakens enough to see the speed is too high, applies brakes.

Train derails, engineer is tossed around inside the cab, sustains another head injury.



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ed11563 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

OK? But why was the train going TWICE the speed limit?


One theory:

Bullet enters cab through windshield, driver (engineer) is grazed in the head, loses consciousness briefly and falls against the accelerator. (It's not a foot pedal.)

Train accelerates rapidly (which it did).

Engineer awakens enough to see the speed is too high, applies brakes.

Train derails, engineer is tossed around inside the cab, sustains another head injury.


 Ed given how quiet the Engineer was when he was brought to the hospital, it calls into question any other theory then his own judgement.  He has not said one word about any outside issue.



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There was NO medical l problem.

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I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

OK? But why was the train going TWICE the speed limit?


One theory:

Bullet enters cab through windshield, driver (engineer) is grazed in the head, loses consciousness briefly and falls against the accelerator. (It's not a foot pedal.)

Train accelerates rapidly (which it did).

Engineer awakens enough to see the speed is too high, applies brakes.

Train derails, engineer is tossed around inside the cab, sustains another head injury.


 Ed given how quiet the Engineer was when he was brought to the hospital, it calls into question any other theory then his own judgement.  He has not said one word about any outside issue.


If he was grazed by a bullet and knocked out, he wouldn't know it. 

 

I was knocked out once.

 



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ed11563 wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

OK? But why was the train going TWICE the speed limit?


One theory:

Bullet enters cab through windshield, driver (engineer) is grazed in the head, loses consciousness briefly and falls against the accelerator. (It's not a foot pedal.)

Train accelerates rapidly (which it did).

Engineer awakens enough to see the speed is too high, applies brakes.

Train derails, engineer is tossed around inside the cab, sustains another head injury.


 Ed given how quiet the Engineer was when he was brought to the hospital, it calls into question any other theory then his own judgement.  He has not said one word about any outside issue.


If he was grazed by a bullet and knocked out, he wouldn't know it. 

 

I was knocked out once.

 


He was examined by Medical Doctors. 



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

OK? But why was the train going TWICE the speed limit?


One theory:

Bullet enters cab through windshield, driver (engineer) is grazed in the head, loses consciousness briefly and falls against the accelerator. (It's not a foot pedal.)

Train accelerates rapidly (which it did).

Engineer awakens enough to see the speed is too high, applies brakes.

Train derails, engineer is tossed around inside the cab, sustains another head injury.


 Ed given how quiet the Engineer was when he was brought to the hospital, it calls into question any other theory then his own judgement.  He has not said one word about any outside issue.


If he was grazed by a bullet and knocked out, he wouldn't know it. 

 

I was knocked out once.

 


He was examined by Medical Doctors


He has a concussion following a head injury. What other types of doctors might have examined him at the hospital? 

At his request they drew blood and found he was clean, no drugs no alcohol. Clearly not suicidal. He spoke freely with the NTSB investigators.

 

I'd like to know more about the damage to the windshield, and whether the investigators found anything in the cab that might have come in through the windshield.

 



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I can't imagine anyone who was awake, not drunk or drugged, and not suicidal, holding the accelerator for the minute or so it took the train to go from 70 mph to 106 mph.

That's why I think he was knocked out.

 

If someone DID shoot at the train, that's terrorism. And I know there are guys who would think it would be funny.



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Just because you "can't imagine it", doesn't mean he wasn't doing something negligent. People do stupid crap all the time.

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OH, ok, he was knocked out by a space alien for that minute, then had the wherewithal to pull the emergency brake when he regained consciousness.

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Or, maybe he is a gay and now a protected class so this won't be investigated or prosecuted like it would if he was a card carrying member of the NRA?

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

OH, ok, he was knocked out by a space alien for that minute, then had the wherewithal to pull the emergency brake when he regained consciousness.


Space alien? How about bored teenager with a rifle?

There was one local incident I remember, probably 20 years ago.

Two 20-something pranksters were arrested for shooting at passing Long Island Railroad trains.

They were in an apartment (about) 8 stories up, with a view overlooking a bay, with a clear line of sight to the LIRR tracks crossing the bay about 400 years north of their building.

Clearly the trains were fun moving targets, and they probably didn't think that they could kill anyone by shooting out a few windows. (No they didn't kill anyone, yes they broke some train windows.)

 



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Pretty good shot to hit the conductor in the head at 107 mph and not leave a mark on his body.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Pretty good shot to hit the conductor in the head at 107 mph and not leave a mark on his body.


Presumably he lost control while going 70 mph before the curve. 

Not hard at all to shoot at the windshield of an oncoming train from the window of a building overlooking the tracks, or from the window of a car stopped on a bridge over the tracks.

MUCH easier than shooting a rat with the same rifle.

 

He DID have a head injury. Why do you say "not leave a mark on his body"?

 

 



-- Edited by ed11563 on Sunday 17th of May 2015 10:11:37 AM

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I think Doctors can tell the difference between a bullet grazing someone's head and causing a concussion and hitting your head off the wall.

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But, let the investigation go forward and we will see.

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