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Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

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First off, I want to say, if you have any snarky, rude, or offensive comments just don't post them here.  I don't need them.  This isn't a free for all about my parenting skills or a chance to tell me what a horrible person I am.  So if that's your goal just keep it to yourself.

My SS is overweight.  Like way overweight.  His four year old sister, not my problem but just some info, weighs 80 pounds already.  Their mom keeps a box of pizza in the fridge for them to "grab a slice whenever they are hungry".  They eat constantly over there and most of it's junk.

My problem is that when he comes over here he's constantly "hungry".  I really don't know if he's hungry or in the habit of eating.  He got here last night and at six I fed him three enchilada's, a couple spoonfuls of rice, and a big bowl of tomato soup.  (Leftover night.)  About forty five minutes to an hour later he was hungry again.  I made him some popcorn and we watched a movie but he was still hungry.

Today it happened again.  He ate a big bowl of raisin bran at 11 am when he got up.  At 12:30 he said he was starving and fixed himself a sandwich, chips, and animal crackers.  I got irritated.  I told him to ask next time. 

Here's the deal, I don't want to make it an issue.  I don't want him feeling bad about himself.  I don't want it to become worse.  But I need some feedback here.  He's ten and a half and can't go more than an hour and a half without eating a full meal.  This seems like too much to me.  Is it?  He drinks a lot of water too which is good.  He likes veggies.  But what can I do to change this when he is here?  He's not very active and I don't really see that changing much. 

I'm honestly looking for some positive input here.  No snark, no rudeness.



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Vette's SS

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Maybe keep fruit and veggies as snacks between meals? He can eat as much of those things as he wants, but only those things.

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That's a tough one NJN. Maybe have set eating times? Breakfast at 9:00, Lunch at 1:00, maybe a snack (apple, carrots) before dinner, and then dinner.

You would have to be rigid with it though. Like training a baby on a schedule. So you would need to plan you day around those times...

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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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He's going to need healthier eating habits, and if he is the kind that needs to eat several times a day - those times have to be healthy. Have you tried keeping cut vegetables and fruits handy for snacking? If he's helping himself, you may just have to take all other forms of snacks out of the house until the healthy eating habits kick in. We all know those are fine in moderation, but he doesn't know moderation. Then, make it so "treats" only come after exercise.

However, I sympathize with the cereal thing. Cereal only holds me for about an hour. I consider it more a snack than a meal.

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Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

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I have fruit and veggies. He will eat them if told to. Should I just say, "Okay, you just ate breakfast, you can eat again at... Until then if you get hungry you can have an apple."? I hate to sound all bossy about it. I guess I'm afraid of making it a big issue. Kids know when you do that.

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Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

I have fruit and veggies. He will eat them if told to. Should I just say, "Okay, you just ate breakfast, you can eat again at... Until then if you get hungry you can have an apple."? I hate to sound all bossy about it. I guess I'm afraid of making it a big issue. Kids know when you do that.


I don't think that's bossy at all.  I think that's a perfect way of saying it... 



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Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

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Lawyerlady wrote:

He's going to need healthier eating habits, and if he is the kind that needs to eat several times a day - those times have to be healthy. Have you tried keeping cut vegetables and fruits handy for snacking? If he's helping himself, you may just have to take all other forms of snacks out of the house until the healthy eating habits kick in. We all know those are fine in moderation, but he doesn't know moderation. Then, make it so "treats" only come after exercise.

However, I sympathize with the cereal thing. Cereal only holds me for about an hour. I consider it more a snack than a meal.


 Cereal used to hold him.  And he loves cereal.  He loves raisin bran.  He doesn't want anything else for breakfast.  I THINK he's just gotten into the habit of eating all the time.  I'm not trying bash his mom but it doesn't matter what time of the day we drop by there to pick him up or drop him off and the kids have some kind of junk food.  There is always a pizza on the table.  His sister always has a cupcake or something.  I honestly think it's habit.  He has packed on the pounds in the last two years.  His mom acknowledges that the kids are way overweight and have bad eating habits but she has no intentions of doing anything about it.  He will eat raw veggies with some dip but you have to limit the dip.  Maybe I should just make my own snacks when he comes.  Thanks to Vette I have tons of little tiny tupperware containers I could put a premeasured amount of dip in. 



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NAOW wrote:

Maybe keep fruit and veggies as snacks between meals? He can eat as much of those things as he wants, but only those things.


This,  celery with peanut butter is healthy and filling.  If he is not allergic  to nuts keep them on hand. They are quite filling.   Keep him active encourage him to ride his bike, play ball or go hiking if possible.  



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Ordinarily I would say that he's a growing boy, and boys do eat a lot. I already see that with my own (skinny) boys. But since he is overweight, I see it as a habit. And one habit he doesn't have, is the ability to feel hunger. He needs that before he can decide he's hungry.

Personally, I would limit what is available in the house. Keep cut up veggies in the fridge if he needs to graze. Or a bowl of fruit on the island. Things that can be nibbled on easily. Grapes, cherries, bananas, apples. Even a basket of cherry tomatoes. A simple, "gosh, let's see what we have" and show him. Mother Hubbard's cupboards are bare. If it's not in the house, he can't eat. (You can keep a chest in your room or closet to keep things you want, but don't tell him about it.

Personally, I don't buy into this need for snacks. The boys "snack" is a bowl of fresh veggies served while I'm making their sandwich or hot dog, etc. It's part of the meal concealed as a snack. We don't eat between meals. Not regularly. On weekends we might stop for ice cream, but that's a treat. Also, keep him busy. Busy minds and bodies aren't thinking about food. TV lends itself to mindless snacking. Between the food commercials and plain boredom, sitting in front of the tube, whether it's a movie or TV show, you're more apt to eat. Or feel you should be doing something with your hands, like reaching into the chip bag. Do you have board games? Cards? Ten is a great age to teach them Canasta or Home Wrecker, two card games that were my favorites. Keep a pitcher of water with sliced lemon or iced tea nearby and fill the ice bucket with ice. Maybe have a bowl of sunflower seeds out and an empty bowl for the shells. Nuts you have to shell yourself are healthy, yet force you to slow down and eat less.



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Kids about his age eat. And they tend to eat a lot.

And it's been proven that 4-5 smaller meals are better than 3 big meals.

I'd say keep more healthy options than bad ones.

And he may not really know true hunger and is mistaking it for almost anything else.

Try asking why he is eating. Ask if he is really hungry or just bored. If he becomes more aware of his body, it may help.

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And send him outside. Cleaning the yard, mowing the yard, washing the cars.



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Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

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I'm doing infusion water but haven't given him any yet. He just got here yesterday. He is very overweight. Not a few pounds. I honestly think it's the food choices. I don't want to be a nag but yes, it's getting to the point something needs to be done. I honestly don't keep a lot of snack foods around the house. His dad has a huge bag of gummy worms but all know better than to touch daddy's candy! I don't outlaw things. We will go to Sonic for a shake once a week or pick up a soda once in a blue moon when we do shopping. I think it's just habit and I'm somehow going to have to transition him over to how it works here. He literally expects to eat a full meal every hour and a half and that is shocking to me.

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Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

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Whenever you ask him if he is hungry he ALWAYS answers the same. It's either A little bit, or I'm starting to get hungry. If you wait ten minutes after he eats and ask him he'll say he's a little bit hungry. I don't even know if he truly knows what hungry is.

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And he may surprise ya'll and never gain another pound.

Jesse is 224 and 6'2". He's has weighed that since he was about 12.

Aaron has kept the same weight but is 6'4".

So maybe he will grow into it.



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Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

I have fruit and veggies. He will eat them if told to. Should I just say, "Okay, you just ate breakfast, you can eat again at... Until then if you get hungry you can have an apple."? I hate to sound all bossy about it. I guess I'm afraid of making it a big issue. Kids know when you do that.


 This was my Mom's way.  If I said I was hungry between meals she'd say have an Apple.  I'd say I don't want an Apple.  She'd respond then you aren't really that hungry are you?  In the Spring/Summer season there was always a bowl of cut up fruit on the counter with a fork in it.  We'd just wander through & eat some fruit.  (We weren't a germophobic family)  We generally didn't have junk food in the house.

Sadly you are fighting an uphill battle with him only living with you part time.  There is no way to control what he eats at his mom's house.  Maybe you could try teaching him about basic nutrition & choices in snacks.  Like Fiber One bars that have chocolate etc. but are much better for him than a cookie or candy.

 



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Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

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I don't think this is the end of his weight gain Lily. Yes, he may surprise us. That is true. But I do think the eating habits at his other house play into it a lot. I can't change that and I'm not going to try. I just want my house to be as healthy as it can be. If he wanted to eat a tiny bit every hour and a half I would have no problem with that. But these are full large meals. He literally eats more than my husband.

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Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

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Lexxy wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

I have fruit and veggies. He will eat them if told to. Should I just say, "Okay, you just ate breakfast, you can eat again at... Until then if you get hungry you can have an apple."? I hate to sound all bossy about it. I guess I'm afraid of making it a big issue. Kids know when you do that.


 This was my Mom's way.  If I said I was hungry between meals she'd say have an Apple.  I'd say I don't want an Apple.  She'd respond then you aren't really that hungry are you?  In the Spring/Summer season there was always a bowl of cut up fruit on the counter with a fork in it.  We'd just wander through & eat some fruit.  (We weren't a germophobic family)  We generally didn't have junk food in the house.

Sadly you are fighting an uphill battle with him only living with you part time.  There is no way to control what he eats at his mom's house.  Maybe you could try teaching him about basic nutrition & choices in snacks.  Like Fiber One bars that have chocolate etc. but are much better for him than a cookie or candy.

 


 Yes, it is an uphill battle.  I think he's lucky that he's here in the fact that he has some sense that his eating needs to be controlled.  His sister is already morbidly obese.  The doctor keeps telling them she is dangerously close to having health related issues due to her weight.  And she's four.  It's sad.  I'm not trying to bash her, their mom, or the situation but she can't find clothes to wear.  Her mom has to shop in the junior department and every time I see her she's wearing pants that the legs have just been slashed off of.  Or dresses that have been chopped off.  It makes me sad because I know she'll be starting school next year and she'll be made fun of.  My SS already gets made fun of. 

My goal is not to change their house but to do what I can here.



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Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lexxy wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

I have fruit and veggies. He will eat them if told to. Should I just say, "Okay, you just ate breakfast, you can eat again at... Until then if you get hungry you can have an apple."? I hate to sound all bossy about it. I guess I'm afraid of making it a big issue. Kids know when you do that.


 This was my Mom's way.  If I said I was hungry between meals she'd say have an Apple.  I'd say I don't want an Apple.  She'd respond then you aren't really that hungry are you?  In the Spring/Summer season there was always a bowl of cut up fruit on the counter with a fork in it.  We'd just wander through & eat some fruit.  (We weren't a germophobic family)  We generally didn't have junk food in the house.

Sadly you are fighting an uphill battle with him only living with you part time.  There is no way to control what he eats at his mom's house.  Maybe you could try teaching him about basic nutrition & choices in snacks.  Like Fiber One bars that have chocolate etc. but are much better for him than a cookie or candy.

 


 Yes, it is an uphill battle.  I think he's lucky that he's here in the fact that he has some sense that his eating needs to be controlled.  His sister is already morbidly obese.  The doctor keeps telling them she is dangerously close to having health related issues due to her weight.  And she's four.  It's sad.  I'm not trying to bash her, their mom, or the situation but she can't find clothes to wear.  Her mom has to shop in the junior department and every time I see her she's wearing pants that the legs have just been slashed off of.  Or dresses that have been chopped off.  It makes me sad because I know she'll be starting school next year and she'll be made fun of.  My SS already gets made fun of. 

My goal is not to change their house but to do what I can here.


 I know but maybe, just maybe since he knows he needs to lose weight if you teach him about healthy choices in snacks he may want to eat better at home too.  Explain that before he reaches for that junk food at home to think about it & make a better choice.  If there is even anything healthy in the house.  Or he can ask mom to buy celery & baby carrots next time or you can send some home with him.  It doesn't sound like anyone else would snack on them there. 



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Ok. So you know all those 100 calorie bags of this and that?

Make your own. I've done it. It helps.

A wide variety of things, salty, sweet, crunchy, chewy. And don't forget the treats too.

The snack size zip lock bags of pretzels, nuts, crackers, cheeses, fruits, even a couple cookies in some.

It will help both you and him see what he is eating.

And when he gets one, ask him if he is eating it because he is hungry.

It'll take a while but he will begin to think about it more. In a healthy way.

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Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

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Lexxy wrote:


 I know but maybe, just maybe since he knows he needs to lose weight if you teach him about healthy choices in snacks he may want to eat better at home too.  Explain that before he reaches for that junk food at home to think about it & make a better choice.  If there is even anything healthy in the house.  Or he can ask mom to buy celery & baby carrots next time or you can send some home with him.  It doesn't sound like anyone else would snack on them there. 


 lol no.  No one else would snack on them.  I do sometimes send stuff home with him.  His sister is actually malnourished AND overweight.  You ask how that can happen?  She only eats candy and junk.  Literally.  And her parents give in to her every time she throws a fit.  They just basically let the kids eat whatever because it's easier for them.  We talk to him sometimes about healthy eating.  Every once in awhile he'll tell us he picked something good to eat but mostly he eats crummy at home.  But I keep telling DH we can at least give him the knowledge and the examples.



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Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

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lilyofcourse wrote:

Ok. So you know all those 100 calorie bags of this and that?

Make your own. I've done it. It helps.

A wide variety of things, salty, sweet, crunchy, chewy. And don't forget the treats too.

The snack size zip lock bags of pretzels, nuts, crackers, cheeses, fruits, even a couple cookies in some.

It will help both you and him see what he is eating.

And when he gets one, ask him if he is eating it because he is hungry.

It'll take a while but he will begin to think about it more. In a healthy way.


 I've done that before but I stopped.  I'm thinking with the suggestions here it might be a good idea to go back to that.  He likes veggies and ranch but the thing is he'll use one veggie to eat all the ranch.  All the kids like ranch on their pizza (disgusting).  I used to give him some and he'd eat it all.  Now I've gotten to where I put what he can have on his plate and tell him if he eats it all with the first bite that's all he gets.  Anyway, I do have some tiny containers that would hold a little tiny bit of ranch.



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Don't ask him if he's hungry. I wouldn't put the idea in his head.

I was raised like lexxy. You're hungry in between meals, here's some fruit. Once in awhile we got ice cream in the afternoon, after a day in the pool, topped with fresh fruit from the grandparents' orchard.

My boys say "I'm still hungry" and I offer veggies or fruit. Nope, they want candy or ice cream. Sorry, you're not hungry then if you don't want what is offered. Clear your table, and go wash your hands. Or I'll tell them to drink a glass of water. Then I talk to them while I wash dishes. Meanwhile, their brain has a chance to catch up with their stomachs. Sometimes they are still hungry, sometimes not. I offer to cut up an apple. Sometimes they take it. That's when I know they really are hungry, and if after that they still want more, I will toast some bread or put some peanut butter on a slice of bread. That usually does the trick.

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Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

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Thanks FNW.

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My kids use to do that, ketchup, ranch, BBQ sauce.

I stopped letting them get more than tablespoon full at a time.

You can always get more if you need it.

And then I stopped letting them get more after a while.

Teaching portion control is hard.

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#1 douses everything with ketchup. I'm okay with ketchup.

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I don't mind if it is actually used.

It's when there is another couple servings on the plate when done that bothers me.

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Jesse put BBQ sauce on a lot of things. Even eggs. Gross.

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For the summer you can buy those real fruit pops that are low calorie. He can eat one in the afternoon or after dinner. Or make your own. You have a juicer right? Crush up fresh fruit & juice & freeze them into pops. It is probably cheaper & easier just to buy them though.

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I would say purge the house of chips and such as much as possible when he is around, a sucky as it is. If there are no chips or animal crackers or granola bars, he can't eat them.
Also, have you thought about eliminating sugar from your house as much as possible? That would help.
My advise would be to tell him to ask before he gets anything, and try to get him to drink water before eating anything, and limit him. Serve him the amount of protein and carbs that YOU know are sufficient, and if he is hungry beyond that, he can eat fruit and veggies.
It is hard. Is DH on board?

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Lexxy wrote:

For the summer you can buy those real fruit pops that are low calorie. He can eat one in the afternoon or after dinner. Or make your own. You have a juicer right? Crush up fresh fruit & juice & freeze them into pops. It is probably cheaper & easier just to buy them though.


 The problem is low calorie has artificial sweeteners that will just make him crave sugar more.  Making them would work, though.



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Am I confusing people here, or does SS require a gluten free diet?

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NJN you know the cause. It is habit. He has to develop new habits, at least when he is at your house. You do have to remove all sweets and the chips and cereal from the house, it just has to be done. He is young enough that perhaps you can set him on a healthy path. Yeah, he will put up a fight, but stick to your guns, and make sure he has activities to do. I would also have DH approach the mother about this, just state up front that SS is obese and the bad eating habits have to stop. She may not do anything about it, but it will be out there. Is she fat?

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Lawyerlady wrote:
Lexxy wrote:

For the summer you can buy those real fruit pops that are low calorie. He can eat one in the afternoon or after dinner. Or make your own. You have a juicer right? Crush up fresh fruit & juice & freeze them into pops. It is probably cheaper & easier just to buy them though.


 The problem is low calorie has artificial sweeteners that will just make him crave sugar more.  Making them would work, though.


 Yep



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I don't get the diet, sugar free, or low calorie stuff. It's not good for you and it's a false fix.

Portion control is the key in my book.



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FNW wrote:

Am I confusing people here, or does SS require a gluten free diet?


 No, different kid.  Sorry for answering for you NJN



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Oh, okay. I was getting ready to flame his mother for feeding him pizza. Never mind! LOL

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Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

I would say purge the house of chips and such as much as possible when he is around, a sucky as it is. If there are no chips or animal crackers or granola bars, he can't eat them.
Also, have you thought about eliminating sugar from your house as much as possible? That would help.
My advise would be to tell him to ask before he gets anything, and try to get him to drink water before eating anything, and limit him. Serve him the amount of protein and carbs that YOU know are sufficient, and if he is hungry beyond that, he can eat fruit and veggies.
It is hard. Is DH on board?


 I agree especially with drinking a glass of water before eating anything.  Sometimes our hunger is more a need for hydration then it is for hunger. 



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My mom didn't allow anything in between meals other than a glass of water. You ate at meal times. Period. Now, I don't advocate that strict of a home but I do think he needs to be told "no, it isn't time to eat yet. You just ate a full mean, you are not hungry. Go play".

I would allow veggies or fruit between meals - once. You want it 15 minutes after we ate lunch, that's fine but if you get hungry later, not my problem.

He needs to be taught what hunger feels like because he doesn't know. He is mistaking boredom for hunger. I don't think you are making a big deal of it or making him feel bad by saying "no". He also needs to learn what that word means, am I correct? Lol

Good luck. I am actually really sad for him and his sister. Their mother is ruining their health, possibly for life.

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I know what to do_sometimes wrote:

NJN you know the cause. It is habit. He has to develop new habits, at least when he is at your house. You do have to remove all sweets and the chips and cereal from the house, it just has to be done. He is young enough that perhaps you can set him on a healthy path. Yeah, he will put up a fight, but stick to your guns, and make sure he has activities to do. I would also have DH approach the mother about this, just state up front that SS is obese and the bad eating habits have to stop. She may not do anything about it, but it will be out there. Is she fat?


 Yes, it is habit.  That's all it is.  It's not really hunger.  I don't think anyway.  I think he's been trained that if he even feels the slightest little bit of anything resembling thirst or hunger he has to a full meal.  It's funny because his mom used to be overweight and then she went on this crash diet.  She takes expensive diet pills that she gets from her doctor.  This started about two years ago.  As her weight has gotten under control the kids weight has sky rocketed.  It's like she's feeding them everything she wishes she had!  Both DH and I have mentioned the weight.  She just laughs and poo poo's it off.  Kids.  That kind of thing.

Yes, I do need purge the house a little bit.  For the most part we eat really healthy.  Especially because of my gluten free DS.  (And no you didn't bother me by answering that IKWTDS!)  But we can always do a little better.  DH is totally on board with it. 

Thanks for all the help and advice.  And anyone else who wants to chime in.  I don't want food to become a struggle or issue.  KWIM?  If I make it a big deal it can set him up later in life.  I know growing up we were told there were bad foods and good foods.  It really gave us all bad ideas about food.

He doesn't know the world no in relation to much in his house.  Especially food.  It's a house where they just have snack food readily available and he snacks whenever he wants.  I don't think either of those kids really know what hunger is.



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NJN ~
One small trick to help stave off wanting to eat too much dip on the (healthy) veggies: use salsa or spicy picante sauce instead of a cream based dip. The tongue and mouth register more "taste", so he will use less.

Good luck! And you're doing exactly the right thing for him. Wish you could help his sister, too.



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Sorry if I missed this suggestion earlier, but how much liquid does he drink? Sometimes I think I am hungry when in reality, I am thirsty.

What about having a 8-12 oz glass of water first, then waiting 20-30 minutes to eat something healthy.

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Tonight for dinner we had broccoli and cheese, bbq chicken, and cous cous. I gave him a thigh and leg. He had about three quarters a cup of broccoli. I gave him about a cup of cous cous. He ate it all and asked for more of everything. I gave him about a quarter cup of broccoli. That was all that was left of that. Then I gave him a small spoonful of cous cous. He asked for more and I said no. He really had had a fair amount of food. I will give him some popcorn tonight while we're watching movies. I'm also going to encourage him to drink more water. I tried to get him to try the infusion water but he didn't like it.

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My BIL the nutritionist always drinks a full glass of water before he eats. I think having your SS do the same would be great.

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Good idea. Think I'll push that.


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DH finally called late tonight. I filled him in on what was going on. The first thing he said is that he needs to be drinking water and a lot more of it. He also said cut out all the crap snacking. Yes, my DH is quite forward with stuff like that. He is well aware that SS is overweight. I told him SS told me that he had decided he didn't like fruit. He told me to tell SS to eat the fruit or go hungry until the next meal.

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Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

Whenever you ask him if he is hungry he ALWAYS answers the same. It's either A little bit, or I'm starting to get hungry. If you wait ten minutes after he eats and ask him he'll say he's a little bit hungry. I don't even know if he truly knows what hungry is.


 I think this is the crux of the issues.  Kids today are fed constantly.  Not just by their parents but every event, activity, etc has people shoving snacks in kids' faces.  It is very difficult if you are trying to modify your child's eating because they can't do anything without people thinking they are being "nice" to constantly provide snacks.  He probably does not know what real hunger pangs are.  It is something that if kids don't get comfortable with feeling, they are going to have a hard time.  I have been pretty good about maintaining my own weight throughout my life by learning to accept feeling hungry.  We seem to treat feeling hungry as a bad feeling.  And, if we learn to manage that, then you can manage that well in life and then you can have the self discipline it takes to manage these issues.

 



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Here is my advice: You can't change his home environment obviously. But, I have found the best approach is to actively involve him. How? By cooking together. Teach him how to cook. Kids love to cook. They take pride in it. And, you can teach him how to prepare healthful meals while giving him nutritional lessons along the way. It can be something as simple as a salad and grilled chicken. But, the act of cleaning and preparing veggies and sautéing chicken, etc will make him feel ownership into what he is eating and you would be surprised how he owns that. Try it. It is a fun bonding experience.
At first, he is going to balk. He won't want to do the work of it. You just have to prod him along and get him involved. And, then make it an expectation. And, soon , he will start bringing his own recipes over that he found online to try.

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Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

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Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

DH finally called late tonight. I filled him in on what was going on. The first thing he said is that he needs to be drinking water and a lot more of it. He also said cut out all the crap snacking. Yes, my DH is quite forward with stuff like that. He is well aware that SS is overweight. I told him SS told me that he had decided he didn't like fruit. He told me to tell SS to eat the fruit or go hungry until the next meal.


 No wonder you love him. He sounds like he has his head on right. Glad he is on your side. 



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He's a good guy. Very supportive. I know we can't control SS's whole life but we can do what we can here. I've always lived with the "I won't treat him differently than I do my own." And I don't allow my kids to eat a bunch of crap so he's not going to either. I'm going to stop by the store today and get him some fruit.

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Truly, I doubt if there is much you can do. Sure, healthier snacks, limit portions when you can--but when he goes back to his mom's house, he'll fall back into his old patterns, anyway.

You can only do what you can do. This kid is going to have a hard life.

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