TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Dear Abby: Slovenly Wife

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Good grief! He is too stupid to live...FORTY YEARS?!

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well, he was probably just going along to get along. And, then you get a house and kids come along and your job and pretty soon, decades go by.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

No kids, but he must be a lonely guy.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I think there is just often a certain ebb and flow to life. And, the "devil you know" sometimes seems easier to deal with than starting over. Not defending him just saying I see people get into these ruts.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

If she has never worked, he would be on the hook for alimony. But the debt could be paid from the proceeds of selling the house, then alimony would be the only thing he would have to pay which is better than being in debt up to his eye balls.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I think there is just often a certain ebb and flow to life. And, the "devil you know" sometimes seems easier to deal with than starting over. Not defending him just saying I see people get into these ruts.

I see your point. Poor guy is probably too ashamed to talk to anyone IRL.

flan

Blankie · Guru

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
If she has never worked, he would be on the hook for alimony. But the debt could be paid from the proceeds of selling the house, then alimony would be the only thing he would have to pay which is better than being in debt up to his eye balls.

This is why I think alimony can be a sexist racket. Why should he have to pay her alimony if he divorces her? She didn't raise his kids, she didn't better his life with her wonderful housekeeping (gag). What did she add to their marriage that is worth anything deserving alimony? All she did was take a meal ticket and run up a lot of debt.

If this were a slovenly husband who had never worked, I bet the wife supporting him could divorce him without paying alimony.

He needs to get a good lawyer, divorce her, and she can get off her arse and get a job.

ed11563 · Guru

Blankie wrote:

He needs to get a good lawyer, divorce her, and she can get off her arse and get a job.

I doubt that she's employable.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

ed11563 wrote:
Blankie wrote:

He needs to get a good lawyer, divorce her, and she can get off her arse and get a job.
I doubt that she's employable.

She isn't. Never worked and must be in her 60's. If he won't divorce her, he needs to take the credit cards away and get rid of the debt, put her on a budget, get rid of joint bank accounts. Let her have her part of the house to live in. Then he needs to get a life.

FNW · Guru

It depends on the state in which they reside. In California, a community property state, I was on the hook to pay spousal support to my ex. He did work during our marriage, but only sporadically. I waited to leave him until he had a job. Once he got one, I was outta there. Then I made slightly more, so the judge ordered I pay him. He didn't care about what transpired during the marriage, he just plugged numbers into a formula and ordered I pay $100 per month until the divorce was final.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I personally can't imagine not having a job for 40 years. They had no kids to take care of - wtf does she do all day? Besides shop. Honestly, I am betting her isolation has caused a lot of this.

How has he tolerated this for 40 years? Since 1975 it's been like this and he hasn't been stressed until now?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I don't care if it's "wrong", but he needs to cut her off and tell her no more money until she cleans that sty - and mean it.

huskerbb · Guru

The whole "not being able to afford" a divorce is a cop-out.

He'd likely be better off financially even if he has to pay alimony. It sounds like she's spending more than what alimony would amount to, anyway. With no child support to throw in, it's HIGHLY unlikely she'd get anywhere close to half his income.

Sure, he'd still have the credit card (presumably) debt--but she has no income, so he has that, anyway. If he's clever, he could probably get her to take the house and saddle her with that--unless there's a lot of equity in it in which case they could sell it and pay down the debt.

I'm not in favor of divorce, but it sounds like she's not pulling her weight (no pun intended) in this marriage. He'd undoubtedly be happier if they divorced, and I think the finances would at least be a wash.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

And he could still have several happy years left!

flan

huskerbb · Guru

I'm not really sure what he wants. Permission to leave?

He almost doesn't seem to want that. There's no magic wand that is going to suddenly make his wife lose weight, clean the damn house, cook a meal, or stop spending money on useless crap.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
I'm not really sure what he wants. Permission to leave?

He almost doesn't seem to want that. There's no magic wand that is going to suddenly make his wife lose weight, clean the damn house, cook a meal, or stop spending money on useless crap.

I know!

And IF the letter is real, what was the tipping point? I could see putting up with this behavior for maybe a couple years.

He needs to stop giving her access to HIS money, for starters.

flan

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I'm not really sure what he wants. Permission to leave?

He almost doesn't seem to want that. There's no magic wand that is going to suddenly make his wife lose weight, clean the damn house, cook a meal, or stop spending money on useless crap.
I know!
And IF the letter is real, what was the tipping point? I could see putting up with this behavior for maybe a couple years.
He needs to stop giving her access to HIS money, for starters.
flan

Well, I don't believe in a marriage there should be concepts such as "his" or "her" money.

However, all couples need to come to some sort of understanding on financial priorities no matter how they arrange their bank accounts.

Even if they have "his" and "her" money--does that mean he can spend his money on a sports car, golfing, and drinking beer with his buddies, while she prioritizes the mortgage, buying clothes for the kids, and putting food on the table?

At the end of the day, for married people, the terms "his" or "her" money is just semantics. It's all OUR money. The only exceptions might be if one partner or the other is, say, a movie star or professional athlete or investment banker who made MILLIONS of dollars before the marriage even came about.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I'm not really sure what he wants. Permission to leave?

He almost doesn't seem to want that. There's no magic wand that is going to suddenly make his wife lose weight, clean the damn house, cook a meal, or stop spending money on useless crap.
I know!
And IF the letter is real, what was the tipping point? I could see putting up with this behavior for maybe a couple years.
He needs to stop giving her access to HIS money, for starters.
flan
Well, I don't believe in a marriage there should be concepts such as "his" or "her" money.
However, all couples need to come to some sort of understanding on financial priorities no matter how they arrange their bank accounts.
Even if they have "his" and "her" money--does that mean he can spend his money on a sports car, golfing, and drinking beer with his buddies, while she prioritizes the mortgage, buying clothes for the kids, and putting food on the table?

At the end of the day, for married people, the terms "his" or "her" money is just semantics. It's all OUR money. The only exceptions might be if one partner or the other is, say, a movie star or professional athlete or investment banker who made MILLIONS of dollars before the marriage even came about.

But THIS is an exception. Give the wife an "allowance" to burn, but NOT access to everything.

flan

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I'm not really sure what he wants. Permission to leave?

He almost doesn't seem to want that. There's no magic wand that is going to suddenly make his wife lose weight, clean the damn house, cook a meal, or stop spending money on useless crap.
I know!
And IF the letter is real, what was the tipping point? I could see putting up with this behavior for maybe a couple years.
He needs to stop giving her access to HIS money, for starters.
flan
Well, I don't believe in a marriage there should be concepts such as "his" or "her" money.
However, all couples need to come to some sort of understanding on financial priorities no matter how they arrange their bank accounts.
Even if they have "his" and "her" money--does that mean he can spend his money on a sports car, golfing, and drinking beer with his buddies, while she prioritizes the mortgage, buying clothes for the kids, and putting food on the table?

At the end of the day, for married people, the terms "his" or "her" money is just semantics. It's all OUR money. The only exceptions might be if one partner or the other is, say, a movie star or professional athlete or investment banker who made MILLIONS of dollars before the marriage even came about.
But THIS is an exception. Give the wife an "allowance" to burn, but NOT access to everything.
flan

Well, obviously they don't have the same priorities. It's a problem, no doubt.

Sure, he could do that--but I don't think it would do much to improve the marriage, overall.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

Might keep them out of the poorhouse.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Tignanello wrote:
Might keep them out of the poorhouse.

And I wouldn't be "rewarding" her excessive spending.

flan

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

This guy should have grown a pair 40 years ago.
And I really doubt he has the backbone to leave her or to lay the law down.
He is what he is and she is what she is. It's a wash.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

She has been doing nothing since 1975! She isn't going to suddenly start taking care of the house and herself, even IF he grew the balls to withhold the money. I think she would get worse, if possible.

Honestly, isolating yourself like that only exacerbates whatever underlying mental illness there is. And it's clear she has a couple - hoarding, depression, and OCD at least.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

huskerbb wrote:
The whole "not being able to afford" a divorce is a cop-out.

He'd likely be better off financially even if he has to pay alimony. It sounds like she's spending more than what alimony would amount to, anyway. With no child support to throw in, it's HIGHLY unlikely she'd get anywhere close to half his income.

Sure, he'd still have the credit card (presumably) debt--but she has no income, so he has that, anyway. If he's clever, he could probably get her to take the house and saddle her with that--unless there's a lot of equity in it in which case they could sell it and pay down the debt.

I'm not in favor of divorce, but it sounds like she's not pulling her weight (no pun intended) in this marriage. He'd undoubtedly be happier if they divorced, and I think the finances would at least be a wash.

Copy cat.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Mellow Momma wrote:
She has been doing nothing since 1975! She isn't going to suddenly start taking care of the house and herself, even IF he grew the balls to withhold the money. I think she would get worse, if possible.

Honestly, isolating yourself like that only exacerbates whatever underlying mental illness there is. And it's clear she has a couple - hoarding, depression, and OCD at least.

And it's clear he has a heavy case of codependency.

Blankie · Guru

Sounds terrible, but I'm wondering if he's hoping she'll die before he has to divorce her.

She's 300 lbs. and probably between 60 and 70. She may not live that much longer.

Probably has some major health issues already.

ladyloonatic · Regular

I think you're being a little hard on the guy. Certainly he could have been more assertive years ago, but figure there were 15- 20 years when things must've been OK, he said they "quit sleeping together 20 years ago." He won't just have an affair, he pays the bills and obviously takes his marriage vows seriously.

Lots of people don't want to just walk out because their marital relationship because ... it sucks.

I'm not one of them

But I know of a lot of people who are, male and female.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

ladyloonatic wrote:
I think you're being a little hard on the guy. Certainly he could have been more assertive years ago, but figure there were 15- 20 years when things must've been OK, he said they "quit sleeping together 20 years ago." He won't just have an affair, he pays the bills and obviously takes his marriage vows seriously.

Lots of people don't want to just walk out because their marital relationship because ... it sucks.
I'm not one of them
But I know of a lot of people who are, male and female.

THis is pretty much my take as well. My guess is they planned to have children so the wife didn't work in anticipation,the babies didn't come, probably due to an infertility issue which was not correctable in the time period they were newlyweds. And life went on.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
ladyloonatic wrote:
I think you're being a little hard on the guy. Certainly he could have been more assertive years ago, but figure there were 15- 20 years when things must've been OK, he said they "quit sleeping together 20 years ago." He won't just have an affair, he pays the bills and obviously takes his marriage vows seriously.

Lots of people don't want to just walk out because their marital relationship because ... it sucks.
I'm not one of them
But I know of a lot of people who are, male and female.
THis is pretty much my take as well. My guess is they planned to have children so the wife didn't work in anticipation,the babies didn't come, probably due to an infertility issue which was not correctable in the time period they were newlyweds. And life went on.

Nope. Sorry. Not buying that.

Someone who loves you, who really truly loves you, tells you to get your azz up and get yourself together. You don't have to leave the marriage, you don't have to cheat...but you sure as hell don't have to put up with stuff for 40 years without saying something. Their house is so hoarded and trashed that it smells. He deserves better. And honestly so does she. If he loved her, he would have told her years ago that she needed to get well and then helped her get well. After 40 years, it's going to be MUCH harder to get any kind of meaningful change.

ed11563 · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
ladyloonatic wrote:
I think you're being a little hard on the guy. Certainly he could have been more assertive years ago, but figure there were 15- 20 years when things must've been OK, he said they "quit sleeping together 20 years ago." He won't just have an affair, he pays the bills and obviously takes his marriage vows seriously.

Lots of people don't want to just walk out because their marital relationship because ... it sucks.
I'm not one of them
But I know of a lot of people who are, male and female.
THis is pretty much my take as well. My guess is they planned to have children so the wife didn't work in anticipation,the babies didn't come, probably due to an infertility issue which was not correctable in the time period they were newlyweds. And life went on.
Nope. Sorry. Not buying that.
Someone who loves you, who really truly loves you, tells you to get your azz up and get yourself together. You don't have to leave the marriage, you don't have to cheat...but you sure as hell don't have to put up with stuff for 40 years without saying something. Their house is so hoarded and trashed that it smells. He deserves better. And honestly so does she. If he loved her, he would have told her years ago that she needed to get well and then helped her get well. After 40 years, it's going to be MUCH harder to get any kind of meaningful change.

Hmmmm , let's see ...

My house doesn't smell, there is no food or trash lying around. But CLUTTER !!!

Spouse claims territory by covering it with STUFF. Every table. Every surface. Both of her queen size beds. (I do manage to keep sinkboard space open, it's in almost constant use.)

"Say something"????

Every time I've said something, she's made whatever it was about ... WORSE.

"Get yourself together"? Her? I should tell her that? Or do you mean me?

If you mean me, I have a job and I'm saving money, should be able to maintain this lifestyle without going into debt if I am forced to retire, but want to keep working for a few more years. Not only for financial reasons, but because my job is GOOD. It gives me a lot to do, and emotional support from my customers who trust and count on me.

Get her help? She's been in therapy since 1979. Now she's almost never violent or destructive. But still almost totally unproductive, and doesn't take care of herself except sometimes to deal with a medical crisis.

Am I taking this personally???? Who? ME?

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Ed - you are not the OP. And nothing said here was directed at you. That being said, a partner who sits by for 40 years and never opens his mouth to get his partner help is a HUGE part of the problem.

And if your wife's therapists have been working with her for years and haven't made any significant progress, they should be fired.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

ed11563 wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
ladyloonatic wrote:
I think you're being a little hard on the guy. Certainly he could have been more assertive years ago, but figure there were 15- 20 years when things must've been OK, he said they "quit sleeping together 20 years ago." He won't just have an affair, he pays the bills and obviously takes his marriage vows seriously.

Lots of people don't want to just walk out because their marital relationship because ... it sucks.
I'm not one of them
But I know of a lot of people who are, male and female.
THis is pretty much my take as well. My guess is they planned to have children so the wife didn't work in anticipation,the babies didn't come, probably due to an infertility issue which was not correctable in the time period they were newlyweds. And life went on.
Nope. Sorry. Not buying that.
Someone who loves you, who really truly loves you, tells you to get your azz up and get yourself together. You don't have to leave the marriage, you don't have to cheat...but you sure as hell don't have to put up with stuff for 40 years without saying something. Their house is so hoarded and trashed that it smells. He deserves better. And honestly so does she. If he loved her, he would have told her years ago that she needed to get well and then helped her get well. After 40 years, it's going to be MUCH harder to get any kind of meaningful change.

Hmmmm , let's see ...
My house doesn't smell, there is no food or trash lying around. But CLUTTER !!!
Spouse claims territory by covering it with STUFF. Every table. Every surface. Both of her queen size beds. (I do manage to keep sinkboard space open, it's in almost constant use.)
"Say something"????
Every time I've said something, she's made whatever it was about ... WORSE.
"Get yourself together"? Her? I should tell her that? Or do you mean me?
If you mean me, I have a job and I'm saving money, should be able to maintain this lifestyle without going into debt if I am forced to retire, but want to keep working for a few more years. Not only for financial reasons, but because my job is GOOD. It gives me a lot to do, and emotional support from my customers who trust and count on me.
Get her help? She's been in therapy since 1979. Now she's almost never violent or destructive. But still almost totally unproductive, and doesn't take care of herself except sometimes to deal with a medical crisis.

Am I taking this personally???? Who? ME?

Ed, you have every right, every reason to take this personally. it is almost your life. Tell us,what is your advice to this husband? What would you tell him too do to make his life better, happier?

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Mellow Momma wrote:
Ed - you are not the OP. And nothing said here was directed at you. That being said, a partner who sits by for 40 years and never opens his mouth to get his partner help is a HUGE part of the problem.

And if your wife's therapists have been working with her for years and haven't made any significant progress, they should be fired.

Therapists are supposed to move you forward in life. Not keep you where you're at.

ed11563 · Guru

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:

Ed, you have every right, every reason to take this personally. it is almost your life. Tell us,what is your advice to this husband? What would you tell him too do to make his life better, happier?

If I had any good advice for him, I'd take my own advice.

Okay, there's this ...

clean out all the food, food containers, pizza boxes, everything that might stink. (I've done this, and continue to.)

Just start throwing stuff away. If it hasn't been used in a year, it never will be. Take whatever is on the bottom of the stacks, and throw it away. (I do this. She doesn't seem to notice.)

TELL HER she's making you miserable, and she is clearly miserable.

Go to some AL-ANON meetings. (I've done this, and should probably go again.)

Cut off her spending! (I haven't had to do this, since Spouse doesn't make useless purchases, and we're cash-positive.)

Tell her you don't like the way she treats you. You deserve better, and SHE deserves a better life.

But recognize that there is a reason for this behavior. A good counselor might be difficult to find (there are a lot who are worthless blood suckers) but if you can find one, and she doesn't reject her/him, it might help.

If she is ever violent to you, call the police and have her taken out of the house for domestic violence.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Ed - you are not the OP. And nothing said here was directed at you. That being said, a partner who sits by for 40 years and never opens his mouth to get his partner help is a HUGE part of the problem.

And if your wife's therapists have been working with her for years and haven't made any significant progress, they should be fired.
Therapists are supposed to move you forward in life. Not keep you where you're at.

Ed, do you think the therapy has helped in her in anyway? What do you think keeps her stuck?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I think therapy only works to the extent that the patient WANTS to change deep down and has the ability to have insight into their own behavior. There are many people who say they want to change but cannot gain the insight to do so, or it simply works for them and they don't want to do anything differently.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I think therapy only works to the extent that the patient WANTS to change deep down and has the ability to have insight into their own behavior. There are many people who say they want to change but cannot gain the insight to do so, or it simply works for them and they don't want to do anything differently.

A good therapist will help you to see that it isn't really working. A good therapist will push you past your comfort zone so you are able to take a good look at your life objectively. That's the whole point of therapy! People who want to get better go to therapy, sure, but plenty of people who don't understand why they are there also go. It's the therapist's job to help you see it.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

A lot of people spend years and years and years in therapy trying to figure out how to change the other person.

Lindley · Guru

I think therapy can only help if the person wants help and is willing to be honest with the therapist and follow their advice. I know people who both lied to and ignored the advice of a therapist. They can help you see it but the patient needs to want to work with the therapist to change their circumstances/lives.

burns07 · Guru

from the sound of it, they're co-dependent--he needs to jet while he still can

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I think therapy only works to the extent that the patient WANTS to change deep down and has the ability to have insight into their own behavior. There are many people who say they want to change but cannot gain the insight to do so, or it simply works for them and they don't want to do anything differently.
A good therapist will help you to see that it isn't really working. A good therapist will push you past your comfort zone so you are able to take a good look at your life objectively. That's the whole point of therapy! People who want to get better go to therapy, sure, but plenty of people who don't understand why they are there also go. It's the therapist's job to help you see it.

I agree. But ,the person they are trying to help has to do their work of helping themselves get better. It is like taking care of someone with a broken leg. Yes, there is a period of time you might need to rest and nurse your wounds. But, then the one day the Nurse comes in and says Get out of bed, you are going to walk today. And, yes it will hurt. It will take effort and time to get to walking again. But, there are people who simply lay there nursing the wounds and never get up and get out bed and no therapist, nurse or anyone can get them too.

Lindley · Guru

It is hard trying to help someone who won't help themselves.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lindley wrote:
It is hard trying to help someone who won't help themselves.

And that is when you say "Enough. I'm hands off now. Sink or swim on your own but I am no longer going to enable you." Usually they either figure it out or find someone else to use.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lindley wrote:
It is hard trying to help someone who won't help themselves.
And that is when you say "Enough. I'm hands off now. Sink or swim on your own but I am no longer going to enable you." Usually they either figure it out or find someone else to use.

Exactly. The woman in the OP is a shopaholic, I would cut off her access to the bank account outside of a reasonable allowance. He says the kitchen is a mess but she doesn't cook. Not sure where the mess is coming from then. Have a service come out and clean it and then maintain it. The next week, have the service come out and clean her bathroom. Then have the service come out and clean her bedroom. Clean right around her. Hire them to come out once a week and maintain it. If she doesn't like it, she is free to leave. Enabling her to live in filth is not good for her and it isn't good for him. He needs to find his power and use some tough love. I say again, if he really loved her, he would take steps to improve the situation. If someone who claims to love you allows you to wallow like this...well, that isn't love. It's sickness too, just a different kind.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Mellow Momma wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lindley wrote:
It is hard trying to help someone who won't help themselves.
And that is when you say "Enough. I'm hands off now. Sink or swim on your own but I am no longer going to enable you." Usually they either figure it out or find someone else to use.
Exactly. The woman in the OP is a shopaholic, I would cut off her access to the bank account outside of a reasonable allowance. He says the kitchen is a mess but she doesn't cook. Not sure where the mess is coming from then. Have a service come out and clean it and then maintain it. The next week, have the service come out and clean her bathroom. Then have the service come out and clean her bedroom. Clean right around her. Hire them to come out once a week and maintain it. If she doesn't like it, she is free to leave. Enabling her to live in filth is not good for her and it isn't good for him. He needs to find his power and use some tough love. I say again, if he really loved her, he would take steps to improve the situation. If someone who claims to love you allows you to wallow like this...well, that isn't love. It's sickness too, just a different kind.

I TOTALLY agree. If our spouse has high blood pressure, diabetes, or any other health problem we beg them to get help. Sometimes the failure to pay attention to your health can cost you a marriage. This woman is ill. Mentally. He's not doing her any favors. Codependency never helps anything.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

If someone who claims to love you allows you to wallow like this...well, that isn't love. It's sickness too, just a different kind.

If someone is an adult, and they choose to wallow, that is their choice. You cannot control what someone else is doing. Again, the only person you control is you. So, you cannot make your spouse do anything if they will not. But, you can control you. You don't have to be part of their sickness either.