TOTALLY GEEKED!

huskerbb · Guru

Serving a Neo-Nazi

ed11563 · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
Someone can post Prudie's response if they want. I thought it was rather generic and not particularly interesting. What say you?

Dear Prudence,
I work in retail. One day I came around a corner and saw a customer facing away from me. A co-worker was approaching him from the other side. Usually I would go up myself and see if I could be of assistance; instead I backed away quietly. Why? The customer had a swastika tattoo on the back of his shaved head. I could hear him speaking with my colleague, and she found him what he needed. (And I hope she turned and walked away from him and thus never saw the back of his head.) I judged him and I discriminated against him based on his appearance. Did I do something wrong?

Think about this question in these contexts:

A. Just a regular retail business. You come in, get what you want, and leave--be that electronics, clothing, getting your car worked on, or a restaurant. The entire interaction would be an hour at the most (in the case of a restaurant)--and likely the direct contact with any employees would be much shorter, a matter of a few minutes in most cases.

B. A service business where you go to their home. Plumber, electrician, cleaning service--where the interaction could be more, but might not be.

C. A business that would directly address their particular proclivities--making Nazi banners, for example--where the interaction might be short, but the subject matter is offensive.

D. A business where you have a LOT of interaction with them. Say, catering a skinhead event, or hosting a neo-Nazi event on/in your party boat or bus, or possibly an investment broker or some other job where you have to work closely with the client.

Would it be okay to poison them? Or maybe charge them double? Misspell Niza? Swistika?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Well. It is his right to express himself. That pesky first amendment is for everyone who is an American.

Does that mean you can't have a reaction to it? No.

But I'd rather live in a country where a person can express themselves freely and be offended, than live where no one is offended because no one can say anything.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

I'd be scared to treat him any differently to be honest.

ed11563 · Guru

VetteGirl wrote:
I'd be scared to treat him any differently to be honest.

Good point.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

If you are putting a visible tattoo on your head, you are doing it for a reason and to send a message. So, yeah, it's OK to make a judgment. However, if you are in business, you simply help them with whatever they need. What else would you expect to do?

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

I really need to get a cross tattoo.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
If you are putting a visible tattoo on your head, you are doing it for a reason and to send a message. So, yeah, it's OK to make a judgment. However, if you are in business, you simply help them with whatever they need. What else would you expect to do?

Agree.

I wouldn't have been scared in the least. It's not like these guys go out and beat up everyone they meet...geez...

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
Someone can post Prudie's response if they want. I thought it was rather generic and not particularly interesting. What say you?

Dear Prudence,
I work in retail. One day I came around a corner and saw a customer facing away from me. A co-worker was approaching him from the other side. Usually I would go up myself and see if I could be of assistance; instead I backed away quietly. Why? The customer had a swastika tattoo on the back of his shaved head. I could hear him speaking with my colleague, and she found him what he needed. (And I hope she turned and walked away from him and thus never saw the back of his head.) I judged him and I discriminated against him based on his appearance. Did I do something wrong?

Think about this question in these contexts:

A. Just a regular retail business. You come in, get what you want, and leave--be that electronics, clothing, getting your car worked on, or a restaurant. The entire interaction would be an hour at the most (in the case of a restaurant)--and likely the direct contact with any employees would be much shorter, a matter of a few minutes in most cases.

B. A service business where you go to their home. Plumber, electrician, cleaning service--where the interaction could be more, but might not be.

C. A business that would directly address their particular proclivities--making Nazi banners, for example--where the interaction might be short, but the subject matter is offensive.

D. A business where you have a LOT of interaction with them. Say, catering a skinhead event, or hosting a neo-Nazi event on/in your party boat or bus, or possibly an investment broker or some other job where you have to work closely with the client.

IF I am working at the Mall, and he came in to try on shirts and needed help, then that is my job. If someone is coming in my home aka a service person, then I reserve the right to determine who may or may not come into my home. I also will NOT make something that is offensive to me nor would I cater an event. Let them bake their own cakes. wink

Ohfour · Hooker

just Czech wrote:
I really need to get a cross tattoo.

Ever heard of The Coptic Christians? They are Middle Eastern Christians. They have a large cross tattooed on their forearms so if challenged by Muslims, they can never be able to deny their faith.

I've honestly considered it...

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

Ohfour wrote:
just Czech wrote:
I really need to get a cross tattoo.
Ever heard of The Coptic Christians? They are Middle Eastern Christians. They have a large cross tattooed on their forearms so if challenged by Muslims, they can never be able to deny their faith.
I've honestly considered it...

That is exactly where I am leaning as well.

I have never wanted a tattoo until now.

huskerbb · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Someone can post Prudie's response if they want. I thought it was rather generic and not particularly interesting. What say you?

Dear Prudence,
I work in retail. One day I came around a corner and saw a customer facing away from me. A co-worker was approaching him from the other side. Usually I would go up myself and see if I could be of assistance; instead I backed away quietly. Why? The customer had a swastika tattoo on the back of his shaved head. I could hear him speaking with my colleague, and she found him what he needed. (And I hope she turned and walked away from him and thus never saw the back of his head.) I judged him and I discriminated against him based on his appearance. Did I do something wrong?

Think about this question in these contexts:

A. Just a regular retail business. You come in, get what you want, and leave--be that electronics, clothing, getting your car worked on, or a restaurant. The entire interaction would be an hour at the most (in the case of a restaurant)--and likely the direct contact with any employees would be much shorter, a matter of a few minutes in most cases.

B. A service business where you go to their home. Plumber, electrician, cleaning service--where the interaction could be more, but might not be.

C. A business that would directly address their particular proclivities--making Nazi banners, for example--where the interaction might be short, but the subject matter is offensive.

D. A business where you have a LOT of interaction with them. Say, catering a skinhead event, or hosting a neo-Nazi event on/in your party boat or bus, or possibly an investment broker or some other job where you have to work closely with the client.

IF I am working at the Mall, and he came in to try on shirts and needed help, then that is my job. If someone is coming in my home aka a service person, then I reserve the right to determine who may or may not come into my home. I also will NOT make something that is offensive to me nor would I cater an event. Let them bake their own cakes.

I guess that is more what I am driving at. Catering an event where you have to be there is a lot different than merely "do you want to supersize that". I fully agree that in the first case--a carry out retail business, that they should be served. Something such as catering, or making t-shirts that say "death to Jews"--I think businesses should have some latitude to refuse to serve them.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Exactly.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Libs give a lot of lip service to "your rights end where my begin", blah, blah. But, they don't want others to have their rights and instead think it is fine for them to impose THEIR will on other people.

huskerbb · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Libs give a lot of lip service to "your rights end where my begin", blah, blah. But, they don't want others to have their rights and instead think it is fine for them to impose THEIR will on other people.

It's not just that. It's also the rank hypocrisy. Would the liberal business owner of a t-shirt shop make t-shirts for a white supremacist group that depict all black people as criminals and use the "n" word in doing so! or even t-shirts that say "white pride"? I'll bet not--but if it's their pet issue, then they expect everyone to cater to that. A conservative business owner would be taken to task if they didn't want to make rainbow t-shirts supporting a gay pride parade.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

huskerbb wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Libs give a lot of lip service to "your rights end where my begin", blah, blah. But, they don't want others to have their rights and instead think it is fine for them to impose THEIR will on other people.
It's not just that. It's also the rank hypocrisy. Would the liberal business owner of a t-shirt shop make t-shirts for a white supremacist group that depict all black people as criminals and use the "n" word in doing so! or even t-shirts that say "white pride"? I'll bet not--but if it's their pet issue, then they expect everyone to cater to that. A conservative business owner would be taken to task if they didn't want to make rainbow t-shirts supporting a gay pride parade.

Nazis are not a protected class.

huskerbb · Guru

Tignanello wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Libs give a lot of lip service to "your rights end where my begin", blah, blah. But, they don't want others to have their rights and instead think it is fine for them to impose THEIR will on other people.
It's not just that. It's also the rank hypocrisy. Would the liberal business owner of a t-shirt shop make t-shirts for a white supremacist group that depict all black people as criminals and use the "n" word in doing so! or even t-shirts that say "white pride"? I'll bet not--but if it's their pet issue, then they expect everyone to cater to that. A conservative business owner would be taken to task if they didn't want to make rainbow t-shirts supporting a gay pride parade.
Nazis are not a protected class.

BS. Free speech is absolutely protected--unless liberals finally get their way.

Ohfour · Hooker

Gays aren't a protected class either...not in most places...

cadiver · Senior Member

huskerbb wrote:
Tignanello wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Libs give a lot of lip service to "your rights end where my begin", blah, blah. But, they don't want others to have their rights and instead think it is fine for them to impose THEIR will on other people.
It's not just that. It's also the rank hypocrisy. Would the liberal business owner of a t-shirt shop make t-shirts for a white supremacist group that depict all black people as criminals and use the "n" word in doing so! or even t-shirts that say "white pride"? I'll bet not--but if it's their pet issue, then they expect everyone to cater to that. A conservative business owner would be taken to task if they didn't want to make rainbow t-shirts supporting a gay pride parade.
Nazis are not a protected class.
BS. Free speech is absolutely protected--unless liberals finally get their way.

A business not serving a Nazi does not violate their free speech and since they are not a protected class the business is not violating any law.

cadiver · Senior Member

Ohfour wrote:
Gays aren't a protected class either...not in most places...

In most states they are not but I think I have only heard of one gay wedding case that was not in a state that had them as a protected class.

weltschmerz · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
Gays aren't a protected class either...not in most places...

They have been a protected class where I live for close to half a century.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

No one should be a protected class.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
No one should be a protected class.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Someone is in a foul mood.

There are valid reasons for making a group a protected class.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Nope. No one group should have more rights than another.

Because that's how genocides get started.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Exactly.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Why were there slaves? Because they didn't have the same rights.

How did the Holocaust happen? Because the Jews didn't have the same rights.

Why have any one group ever become victims of another? Because they didn't have the same rights.

We, in America have the same rights as written in the Bill of Rights.

No one group has more rights than another.

They problem begins when a privilege is mistaken for a right.

huskerbb · Guru

cadiver wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Tignanello wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Libs give a lot of lip service to "your rights end where my begin", blah, blah. But, they don't want others to have their rights and instead think it is fine for them to impose THEIR will on other people.
It's not just that. It's also the rank hypocrisy. Would the liberal business owner of a t-shirt shop make t-shirts for a white supremacist group that depict all black people as criminals and use the "n" word in doing so! or even t-shirts that say "white pride"? I'll bet not--but if it's their pet issue, then they expect everyone to cater to that. A conservative business owner would be taken to task if they didn't want to make rainbow t-shirts supporting a gay pride parade.
Nazis are not a protected class.
BS. Free speech is absolutely protected--unless liberals finally get their way.
A business not serving a Nazi does not violate their free speech and since they are not a protected class the business is not violating any law.

There's the liberal hypocrisy.

weltschmerz · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Libs give a lot of lip service to "your rights end where my begin", blah, blah. But, they don't want others to have their rights and instead think it is fine for them to impose THEIR will on other people.
It's not just that. It's also the rank hypocrisy. Would the liberal business owner of a t-shirt shop make t-shirts for a white supremacist group that depict all black people as criminals and use the "n" word in doing so! or even t-shirts that say "white pride"? I'll bet not--but if it's their pet issue, then they expect everyone to cater to that. A conservative business owner would be taken to task if they didn't want to make rainbow t-shirts supporting a gay pride parade.

You're comparing apples to Toyota dealerships. The bakers weren't asked to make a cake with hate speech on it. They were just asked to make a cake, because they're in the business of making cakes.

ed11563 · Guru

Every time I see the title of this thread, I think it's about a cookbook.

huskerbb · Guru

weltschmerz wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Libs give a lot of lip service to "your rights end where my begin", blah, blah. But, they don't want others to have their rights and instead think it is fine for them to impose THEIR will on other people.
It's not just that. It's also the rank hypocrisy. Would the liberal business owner of a t-shirt shop make t-shirts for a white supremacist group that depict all black people as criminals and use the "n" word in doing so! or even t-shirts that say "white pride"? I'll bet not--but if it's their pet issue, then they expect everyone to cater to that. A conservative business owner would be taken to task if they didn't want to make rainbow t-shirts supporting a gay pride parade.
You're comparing apples to Toyota dealerships. The bakers weren't asked to make a cake with hate speech on it. They were just asked to make a cake, because they're in the business of making cakes.

Who gets to define "hate speech"??? Why do you think you get to do it? To those bakers, what they were asked to do was just as offensive as any "hate speech" that neo-nazis might come up with.

That's the problem with liberals. They want freedom of speech--but ONLY if they agree with it.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

weltschmerz wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Libs give a lot of lip service to "your rights end where my begin", blah, blah. But, they don't want others to have their rights and instead think it is fine for them to impose THEIR will on other people.
It's not just that. It's also the rank hypocrisy. Would the liberal business owner of a t-shirt shop make t-shirts for a white supremacist group that depict all black people as criminals and use the "n" word in doing so! or even t-shirts that say "white pride"? I'll bet not--but if it's their pet issue, then they expect everyone to cater to that. A conservative business owner would be taken to task if they didn't want to make rainbow t-shirts supporting a gay pride parade.
You're comparing apples to Toyota dealerships. The bakers weren't asked to make a cake with hate speech on it. They were just asked to make a cake, because they're in the business of making cakes.

They aren't servants of the State. If they dont' want to bake the cake, you dont' bake the cake. They are "punished" by losing the revenue. That is supposed to be how the economy works. Then, they tell their friends, "don't shop there". Geez.

weltschmerz · Guru

"Would the liberal business owner of a t-shirt shop make t-shirts for a white supremacist group that depict all black people as criminals and use the "n" word in doing so!"

You don't think this is hate speech?
If the T-shirt shop was to just make them plain shirts, then it's similar to the bakers making a plain wedding cake...but they didn't.

They made cakes for dog weddings, divorce parties, celebrations for out-of-wedlock pregnancies and pagan celebrations. As soon as the were confronted with gays, however, all hell broke loose.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

weltschmerz wrote:
"Would the liberal business owner of a t-shirt shop make t-shirts for a white supremacist group that depict all black people as criminals and use the "n" word in doing so!"

You don't think this is hate speech?
If the T-shirt shop was to just make them plain shirts, then it's similar to the bakers making a plain wedding cake...but they didn't.

They made cakes for dog weddings, divorce parties, celebrations for out-of-wedlock pregnancies and pagan celebrations. As soon as the were confronted with gays, however, all hell broke loose.

It's their business. They said NO SALE so No sale. It is YOU and liberals who want to ram YOUR views down our throats.

huskerbb · Guru

weltschmerz wrote:
"Would the liberal business owner of a t-shirt shop make t-shirts for a white supremacist group that depict all black people as criminals and use the "n" word in doing so!"

You don't think this is hate speech?
If the T-shirt shop was to just make them plain shirts, then it's similar to the bakers making a plain wedding cake...but they didn't.

They made cakes for dog weddings, divorce parties, celebrations for out-of-wedlock pregnancies and pagan celebrations. As soon as the were confronted with gays, however, all hell broke loose.

I didn't say it wasn't hate speech--what I said was it isn't your job to identify what that is. Obviously some do not think it is.

Plus, "hate speech" is still protected speech--whether you like it, or not.

You don't know it was a "plain" wedding cake. You don't know what they wanted depicted on it. Plus, again, it's not just take your cake and go. The bakers are usually expected to attend the event, set the cake up, and sometimes serve it. Should a liberal baker have to serve cake at a neo-Nazi event even if the cakes themselves are not offensive? They should have to go there and spend a couple of hours serving skinheads cake amongst all the swastikas and offensive speeches?

Ohfour · Hooker

weltschmerz wrote:
"Would the liberal business owner of a t-shirt shop make t-shirts for a white supremacist group that depict all black people as criminals and use the "n" word in doing so!"

You don't think this is hate speech?
If the T-shirt shop was to just make them plain shirts, then it's similar to the bakers making a plain wedding cake...but they didn't.

They made cakes for dog weddings, divorce parties, celebrations for out-of-wedlock pregnancies and pagan celebrations. As soon as the were confronted with gays, however, all hell broke loose.

Should a black baker be forced to make a cake for a KKK rally?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Ohfour wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
"Would the liberal business owner of a t-shirt shop make t-shirts for a white supremacist group that depict all black people as criminals and use the "n" word in doing so!"

You don't think this is hate speech?
If the T-shirt shop was to just make them plain shirts, then it's similar to the bakers making a plain wedding cake...but they didn't.

They made cakes for dog weddings, divorce parties, celebrations for out-of-wedlock pregnancies and pagan celebrations. As soon as the were confronted with gays, however, all hell broke loose.
Should a black baker be forced to make a cake for a KKK rally?

Only if they are all gay.

weltschmerz · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
"Would the liberal business owner of a t-shirt shop make t-shirts for a white supremacist group that depict all black people as criminals and use the "n" word in doing so!"

You don't think this is hate speech?
If the T-shirt shop was to just make them plain shirts, then it's similar to the bakers making a plain wedding cake...but they didn't.

They made cakes for dog weddings, divorce parties, celebrations for out-of-wedlock pregnancies and pagan celebrations. As soon as the were confronted with gays, however, all hell broke loose.
I didn't say it wasn't hate speech--what I said was it isn't your job to identify what that is. Obviously some do not think it is.

Plus, "hate speech" is still protected speech--whether you like it, or not.

You don't know it was a "plain" wedding cake. You don't know what they wanted depicted on it. Plus, again, it's not just take your cake and go. The bakers are usually expected to attend the event, set the cake up, and sometimes serve it. Should a liberal baker have to serve cake at a neo-Nazi event even if the cakes themselves are not offensive? They should have to go there and spend a couple of hours serving skinheads cake amongst all the swastikas and offensive speeches?

I've been to a lot of weddings. I've never seen bakers attending the event. Sure, they can deliver the cake, but that's their job. It's not like they're giving the bride away.

huskerbb · Guru

weltschmerz wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
"Would the liberal business owner of a t-shirt shop make t-shirts for a white supremacist group that depict all black people as criminals and use the "n" word in doing so!"

You don't think this is hate speech?
If the T-shirt shop was to just make them plain shirts, then it's similar to the bakers making a plain wedding cake...but they didn't.

They made cakes for dog weddings, divorce parties, celebrations for out-of-wedlock pregnancies and pagan celebrations. As soon as the were confronted with gays, however, all hell broke loose.
I didn't say it wasn't hate speech--what I said was it isn't your job to identify what that is. Obviously some do not think it is.

Plus, "hate speech" is still protected speech--whether you like it, or not.

You don't know it was a "plain" wedding cake. You don't know what they wanted depicted on it. Plus, again, it's not just take your cake and go. The bakers are usually expected to attend the event, set the cake up, and sometimes serve it. Should a liberal baker have to serve cake at a neo-Nazi event even if the cakes themselves are not offensive? They should have to go there and spend a couple of hours serving skinheads cake amongst all the swastikas and offensive speeches?
I've been to a lot of weddings. I've never seen bakers attending the event. Sure, they can deliver the cake, but that's their job. It's not like they're giving the bride away.

You must not have been to very many weddings. My mom makes wedding cakes. It's not a come in, take a cake off the shelf, and leave.

You have to work with the couple (or at least the bride), usually set it up, and sometimes serve it.

She just does it for a hobby--she should NOT have to choose between violating her conscience and her faith--or losing her house.

Ohfour · Hooker

Welts,
Should a black baker be forced to bake a cake for a KKK rally? I rally would like to hear your answer on that...

cadiver · Senior Member

Ohfour wrote:
Welts,
Should a black baker be forced to bake a cake for a KKK rally? I rally would like to hear your answer on that...

No, not a protected class.

But a gay baker could not refuse a Christain wedding.

Ohfour · Hooker

Not a protected class? So only protected classes are able to demand service? They are doing nothing remotely illegal. So an average citizen can't go into a bakery and expect service? Hypocrite much?

Ohfour · Hooker

So a KKK owner could be forced to bake a cake for an NAACP rally, but not the other way around? Do you not see how fvcked up that is?

Ohfour · Hooker

Should a female owned bakery be able to refuse to bake cakes for boys bday parties and only bake for girls? 5 year old boys are not a protected class...

weltschmerz · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
Welts,
Should a black baker be forced to bake a cake for a KKK rally? I rally would like to hear your answer on that...

Nope. People aren't born Nazis. It's something they have control over. They choose to be Nazis, and therefore not a protected class.

weltschmerz · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
Should a female owned bakery be able to refuse to bake cakes for boys bday parties and only bake for girls? 5 year old boys are not a protected class...

No, of course not. If you bake cakes for girls, then you have to bake cakes for boys. If you bake cakes for straights, then you should bake cakes for gays.

Or, you could just make plain cakes for anyone who asks, even if it's for a goat on his 4th birthday. He doesn't need a topper or Happy Birthday Gus written out in buttercream frosting.

Ohfour · Hooker

People have control over religion, yet that's a protected class...try again...

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

weltschmerz wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Gays aren't a protected class either...not in most places...
They have been a protected class where I live for close to half a century.

Yup - here you cannot be discriminated against for sexual orientation.

weltschmerz · Guru

Yep! Quebec passed anti-discrimination laws back in the 70s.

We also recently passed a Right To Die euthanasia law. Yay, us!!

huskerbb · Guru

cadiver wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Welts,
Should a black baker be forced to bake a cake for a KKK rally? I rally would like to hear your answer on that...
No, not a protected class.

But a gay baker could not refuse a Christain wedding.

And that's the liberal hypocrisy at its finest. They force unjust laws--and then hide behind them instead of actually using their own minds to make a just decision.

huskerbb · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
Not a protected class? So only protected classes are able to demand service? They are doing nothing remotely illegal. So an average citizen can't go into a bakery and expect service? Hypocrite much?

They are absolutely hypocrites. They are arrogant enough to think they get to decide for everyone else how everyone else should believe and act.