TOTALLY GEEKED!

ed11563 · Guru

elderly mom keeps falling for scams

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

You really can't stop the mail from coming. But, one thing they could do is get a PO Box and then they could pick up her mail for her and screen out the mail scams.

huskerbb · Guru

I'm not so sure they couldn't get power of attorney here--which would also take away her ability to disinherit them. Of course, there is some risk they would lose, so they need to consult an attorney on their own to see what likelihood they have of winning, but it sounds like they might have a good shot at it.

NAOW · Vette's SS

Sounds like they already have PoA, so I think they should just redirect her mail. Or leave her be and let her spend her money this way.

huskerbb · Guru

Ah, you are right--I didn't see that.

I'm not so sure in that case that she can legally change her will depending on how that is set up. Consulting an attorney would be a good first step, but I think her threats might be empty.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I would think it would be fairly easy to show mental incompetence. They took her to her own lawyer who told her they were scams. If she doesn't trust her own lawyer she needs some help. And it says they have POA so I think they need to use it. She is at risk at home alone as well. What if someone comes to the door and tells her she won and if she lets them in, they will have her fill out the paperwork? She lets them in and they rob her - or worse. I don't think she should be home alone.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well, I dont' think " threatening" your elderly mother is good on any level. Of course she is going to say "oh I will disinherit you". I think there are ways to deal with this without threatening to take over her life. And ,if she is the beginning stages of dementia, challenging them is futile and makes them more obstinate. There is no point to argue.
So, have a chat with her and then take her out to lunch and then say "oh, let's stop at the post office and set up a PO box". It probably isn't any harder than that.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

My 85 year old grandmother would rip you a new one if you tried to tell her what to do with her money.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
My 85 year old grandmother would rip you a new one if you tried to tell her what to do with her money.

But this woman is spending it on scams. Sure, so far they are small--but they can get bigger. You don't want her to end up penniless.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

It wouldn't matter if she was buying gold coins or magic beans.

She'd make sure you knew it was hers and she would do with it as she pleases.

Look. If mom is paying her bills and taking care of what needs to be taken care of, then leave her alone.

Honestly, my take away from the OP is the LW is more worried about her inheritance than her mom's well being.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
It wouldn't matter if she was buying gold coins or magic beans.

She'd make sure you knew it was hers and she would do with it as she pleases.

Look. If mom is paying her bills and taking care of what needs to be taken care of, then leave her alone.

Honestly, my take away from the OP is the LW is more worried about her inheritance than her mom's well being.

BS. If you stand by and watch an elderly parent piss away their retirement--then you don't really care for them.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

She's 80. How much more retirement is left?

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
She's 80. How much more retirement is left?

My Grandmother lived to be 103. Plus, if it comes time to go to a facility--the money will go out a lot faster, too.

huskerbb · Guru

If she's putting money into scams--it's obvious she's losing it. Elderly are preyed on all the time.

If she falls for the scam of $1,000 here or there--who's to say she won't fall for one of $100,000, or a $1,000,000?

Are you REALLY saying it would be better to simply let an elderly relative get scammed out of a MILLION dollars rather than intervene?

As far as any inheritance might go, you are then saying that a CRIMINAL should have this money rather than family? Or any charities that they might endow?

-- Edited by huskerbb on Sunday 26th of July 2015 09:21:31 PM

-- Edited by huskerbb on Sunday 26th of July 2015 09:24:08 PM

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

What I am saying is, if this is the only frivolous thing she is doing, then oh well.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
What I am saying is, if this is the only frivolous thing she is doing, then oh well.

Oh well if criminals and fraudsters end up with her retirement savings? Oh well if she ends up with nothing to live on?

This isn't just "frivolous". She is falling for fraud--and again, what can start small can turn big. There are MANY cases of elderly people getting bilked out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. If someone isn't watching it--it would be too late by the time you realize what is going on.

It's also a sign that she may not be competent to handle her own affairs going forward.

Momala · Great cook-happy wife-superb fisherman

My dear MIL subscribed to umpteen-and-a-half magazines hoping to have PCH ring her doorbell with balloons & flowers, saying she'd won a million dollars! We finally showed her the tiny tiny fine print where it said buying subscriptions would not increase her odds of winning. She was very very disappointed.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
What I am saying is, if this is the only frivolous thing she is doing, then oh well.

Oh well if criminals and fraudsters end up with her retirement savings? Oh well if she ends up with nothing to live on?

This isn't just "frivolous". She is falling for fraud--and again, what can start small can turn big. There are MANY cases of elderly people getting bilked out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. If someone isn't watching it--it would be too late by the time you realize what is going on.

It's also a sign that she may not be competent to handle her own affairs going forward.

What do you want her to do? Should she go over and steal Grandma's check book in the middle of the night?

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

They already have her POA. They can get the mail delivered to their house, they can take over her money and give her an "allowance" or they could put her in assisted living. Clearly she is starting to lose it so they need to actually exercise that POA!

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

huskerbb wrote:
I'm not so sure they couldn't get power of attorney here--which would also take away her ability to disinherit them. Of course, there is some risk they would lose, so they need to consult an attorney on their own to see what likelihood they have of winning, but it sounds like they might have a good shot at it.

A power of attorney can be revoked by the grantor at any time. What they would need is a court ordered conservatorship and/or guardianship.

If she has plenty of money and this is how she wants to spend it, provided she hasn't lost her mind, so be it.

huskerbb · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
What I am saying is, if this is the only frivolous thing she is doing, then oh well.

Oh well if criminals and fraudsters end up with her retirement savings? Oh well if she ends up with nothing to live on?

This isn't just "frivolous". She is falling for fraud--and again, what can start small can turn big. There are MANY cases of elderly people getting bilked out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. If someone isn't watching it--it would be too late by the time you realize what is going on.

It's also a sign that she may not be competent to handle her own affairs going forward.
What do you want her to do? Should she go over and steal Grandma's check book in the middle of the night?

Just take it. They already have POA.

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I'm not so sure they couldn't get power of attorney here--which would also take away her ability to disinherit them. Of course, there is some risk they would lose, so they need to consult an attorney on their own to see what likelihood they have of winning, but it sounds like they might have a good shot at it.

A power of attorney can be revoked by the grantor at any time. What they would need is a court ordered conservatorship and/or guardianship.

If she has plenty of money and this is how she wants to spend it, provided she hasn't lost her mind, so be it.

That's ridiculous. It's a definite sign she is losing her mind.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

huskerbb wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
What I am saying is, if this is the only frivolous thing she is doing, then oh well.

Oh well if criminals and fraudsters end up with her retirement savings? Oh well if she ends up with nothing to live on?

This isn't just "frivolous". She is falling for fraud--and again, what can start small can turn big. There are MANY cases of elderly people getting bilked out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. If someone isn't watching it--it would be too late by the time you realize what is going on.

It's also a sign that she may not be competent to handle her own affairs going forward.
What do you want her to do? Should she go over and steal Grandma's check book in the middle of the night?
Just take it. They already have POA.

That is not how a power of attorney works. She could immediately revoke it and demand the checkbook back and then call the police if they dared not.

Adults who are not mentally incapacitated have the right to do what they want with thier money, regardless if anyone else likes it.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I'm not so sure they couldn't get power of attorney here--which would also take away her ability to disinherit them. Of course, there is some risk they would lose, so they need to consult an attorney on their own to see what likelihood they have of winning, but it sounds like they might have a good shot at it.

A power of attorney can be revoked by the grantor at any time. What they would need is a court ordered conservatorship and/or guardianship.

If she has plenty of money and this is how she wants to spend it, provided she hasn't lost her mind, so be it.
That's ridiculous. It's a definite sign she is losing her mind.

Prove it.

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
I'm not so sure they couldn't get power of attorney here--which would also take away her ability to disinherit them. Of course, there is some risk they would lose, so they need to consult an attorney on their own to see what likelihood they have of winning, but it sounds like they might have a good shot at it.

A power of attorney can be revoked by the grantor at any time. What they would need is a court ordered conservatorship and/or guardianship.

If she has plenty of money and this is how she wants to spend it, provided she hasn't lost her mind, so be it.
That's ridiculous. It's a definite sign she is losing her mind.
Prove it.

Would you deliberately fall for fraud--even after your attorney told you it was a scam?

NO ONE of a sound mind would do so.

-- Edited by huskerbb on Monday 27th of July 2015 10:40:18 AM

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
What I am saying is, if this is the only frivolous thing she is doing, then oh well.

Oh well if criminals and fraudsters end up with her retirement savings? Oh well if she ends up with nothing to live on?

This isn't just "frivolous". She is falling for fraud--and again, what can start small can turn big. There are MANY cases of elderly people getting bilked out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. If someone isn't watching it--it would be too late by the time you realize what is going on.

It's also a sign that she may not be competent to handle her own affairs going forward.
What do you want her to do? Should she go over and steal Grandma's check book in the middle of the night?
Just take it. They already have POA.
That is not how a power of attorney works. She could immediately revoke it and demand the checkbook back and then call the police if they dared not.
Adults who are not mentally incapacitated have the right to do what they want with thier money, regardless if anyone else likes it.

She could--dare her to do so and die alone. My bet is that she wouldn't and her threats are empty. Heck, empty the bank account before she revokes it. Is she really going to fight that out in court against her family? I think she's bluffing.

Also, i don't give a crap about rights here. I'm not going to stand by and let an eldearly parent piss away their retirement on fraud. Anyone who would do so proves they do not care about that person.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
What I am saying is, if this is the only frivolous thing she is doing, then oh well.

Oh well if criminals and fraudsters end up with her retirement savings? Oh well if she ends up with nothing to live on?

This isn't just "frivolous". She is falling for fraud--and again, what can start small can turn big. There are MANY cases of elderly people getting bilked out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. If someone isn't watching it--it would be too late by the time you realize what is going on.

It's also a sign that she may not be competent to handle her own affairs going forward.
What do you want her to do? Should she go over and steal Grandma's check book in the middle of the night?
Just take it. They already have POA.
That is not how a power of attorney works. She could immediately revoke it and demand the checkbook back and then call the police if they dared not.
Adults who are not mentally incapacitated have the right to do what they want with thier money, regardless if anyone else likes it.
She could--dare her to do so and die alone. My bet is that she wouldn't and her threats are empty. Heck, empty the bank account before she revokes it. Is she really going to fight that out in court against her family? I think she's bluffing.

Also, i don't give a crap about rights here. I'm not going to stand by and let an eldearly parent piss away their retirement on fraud. Anyone who would do so proves they do not care about that person.

That's called a breach of fiduciary duty and you can get into a lot of trouble for that. You cannot just hijack an adult's money from them. If they really think she has lost it - they need to have that declared and documented by a doctor before doing anything.

And this would be why most people make their powers of attorney only valid upon thier disability, which must be attested by their doctor.

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
What I am saying is, if this is the only frivolous thing she is doing, then oh well.

Oh well if criminals and fraudsters end up with her retirement savings? Oh well if she ends up with nothing to live on?

This isn't just "frivolous". She is falling for fraud--and again, what can start small can turn big. There are MANY cases of elderly people getting bilked out of hundreds of thousands of dollars. If someone isn't watching it--it would be too late by the time you realize what is going on.

It's also a sign that she may not be competent to handle her own affairs going forward.
What do you want her to do? Should she go over and steal Grandma's check book in the middle of the night?
Just take it. They already have POA.
That is not how a power of attorney works. She could immediately revoke it and demand the checkbook back and then call the police if they dared not.
Adults who are not mentally incapacitated have the right to do what they want with thier money, regardless if anyone else likes it.
She could--dare her to do so and die alone. My bet is that she wouldn't and her threats are empty. Heck, empty the bank account before she revokes it. Is she really going to fight that out in court against her family? I think she's bluffing.

Also, i don't give a crap about rights here. I'm not going to stand by and let an eldearly parent piss away their retirement on fraud. Anyone who would do so proves they do not care about that person.
That's called a breach of fiduciary duty and you can get into a lot of trouble for that. You cannot just hijack an adult's money from them. If they really think she has lost it - they need to have that declared and documented by a doctor before doing anything.
And this would be why most people make their powers of attorney only valid upon thier disability, which must be attested by their doctor.

She'd have to take them to court, first. I think she's bluffing. when no one comes to visit at shady pines, she'll wonder what happened.

Ive dealt with this--twice. Luckily the spouse was still alive and competent--but yeah, we took the checkbooks, and no one went to court.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I think they should look more closely at that POA.

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
I think they should look more closely at that POA.

I think so, too. I also think they could get her declared incompetent, but that's a step better avoided if possible. It's humiliating for that person.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
I think they should look more closely at that POA.
I think so, too. I also think they could get her declared incompetent, but that's a step better avoided if possible. It's humiliating for that person.

That is actually more more difficult than some people think.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

So... give me your money or I won't come see you.

Got it.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
So... give me your money or I won't come see you.

Got it.

Who said anything about diving it to anyone? However, she is now giving it to fraudsters and criminals--I can't believe you find that such a terrific idea.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

She could--dare her to do so and die alone.

She'd have to take them to court, first. I think she's bluffing. when no one comes to visit at shady pines, she'll wonder what happened.
----------------------
Attitude like that has nothing to do with the person you say you are trying to protect. It's all about making sure what you think is yours, is not spent.

*the you is plural you*

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Double post.

-- Edited by lilyofcourse on Monday 27th of July 2015 12:25:04 PM

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
She could--dare her to do so and die alone.

She'd have to take them to court, first. I think she's bluffing. when no one comes to visit at shady pines, she'll wonder what happened.
----------------------
Attitude like that has nothing to do with the person you say you are trying to protect. It's all about making sure what you think is yours, is not spent.

*the you is plural you*

BS. the one who doesn't care is the one who wants them to end up penniless after giving all their money to criminals.

Tinydancer · Guru

lily's right. If you're threatening not to come see her because she's spending HER OWN money then that would lead me to believe it's only her money you care about. IT'S HER MONEY not yours. (general you)

huskerbb · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
lily's right. If you're threatening not to come see her because she's spending HER OWN money then that would lead me to believe it's only her money you care about. IT'S HER MONEY not yours. (general you)

Sure I would care that she isn't giving money to criminals. I can't believe you would be ok with that--or that anyone would.

Tinydancer · Guru

I wouldn't be ok with it but it's her money and she's an adult. Should I be able to just take money from people who don't spend it the way I think they should? You keep saying we're wrong but you're the one who wants to take over her money and put her in a home. With help like yours I'd say you're greedy.

-- Edited by Tinydancer on Monday 27th of July 2015 01:22:19 PM

huskerbb · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
I wouldn't be ok with it but it's her money and she's an adult. Should I be able to just take money from people who don't spend it the way I think they should? You keep saying we're wrong but you're the one who wants to take over her money and put her in a home. With help like yours I'd say you're greedy.

-- Edited by Tinydancer on Monday 27th of July 2015 01:22:19 PM

No,mi said NOTHING about putting anyone in a home. Try reading. I said that I would want to ensure she has money to pay for it in case she has to go there.

If if you would do nothing to prevent her giving her money to criminals--then you are ok with it.

Tinydancer · Guru

You really like to tell others what they should be doing don't you. Good thing no one made you God...lol

huskerbb · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
You really like to tell others what they should be doing don't you. Good thing no one made you God...lol

If they are going to hurt themselves, sometimes you have to. Do you let your children stay up until 2 a.m. Eating ice cream every night?

Tinydancer · Guru

Children and adults are two totally different arguments. Nice try though...

huskerbb · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
Children and adults are two totally different arguments. Nice try though...

No, they aren't. There comes a point in everyone's life when the child becomes the parent, and the parent, the child. Maybe you have not gone through it, but I have.

Tinydancer · Guru

Well unless she is mentally incapacitated you have no right to tell her how to spend her money. Even if you don't like how she's spending it. IT'S NOT YOUR MONEY SONNY...

Ohfour · Hooker

I know a younger person (30s) that gives almost all of her money to a scam evangelist. Should someone come in and take control of her money too? Or do you just want to do this to older people? I know a LOT of people that are "lottery poor". They go hungry to spend money on lottery tickets. Should they be declared incompetent?

huskerbb · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
Well unless she is mentally incapacitated you have no right to tell her how to spend her money. Even if you don't like how she's spending it. IT'S NOT YOUR MONEY SONNY...

I don't care whose money it is. You seem to think that has some importance. it does not. I'm not going to stand by and watch them waste their retirement and end up penniless.

huskerbb · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
I know a younger person (30s) that gives almost all of her money to a scam evangelist. Should someone come in and take control of her money too? Or do you just want to do this to older people? I know a LOT of people that are "lottery poor". They go hungry to spend money on lottery tickets. Should they be declared incompetent?

Someone probably should. I certainly wish we could cut off welfare for people who do crap like that.

Tinydancer · Guru

But you don't get to tell adults how to spend their money. You can ask them or nag them but you can't MAKE them.

huskerbb · Guru

It's not just money. There comes a time when you have to make medical decisions, decide that it's time they quit driving (and that's no fun), help with basic tasks, and a LOT of other things you do for a child that you now have to do for a parent.

TOTALLY GEEKED!

Kids worry that elderly mom keeps falling for scams