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Post Info TOPIC: Divorced people who remarry are 'still part of the church' and should not be treated like outcasts, declares the Pope
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Divorced people who remarry are 'still part of the church' and should not be treated like outcasts, declares the Pope
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Divorced people who remarry are 'still part of the church' and should not be treated like outcasts, declares the Pope

  • Catholics who remarry 'shunned' by the church, do not receive communion
  • Pope Francis today said they, and their children, deserve better treatment
  • Argentinian pontiff also hinted the communion ban could someday be lifted
  • Spoke to hundreds of people at first general audience since summer break

By Jay Akbar For Mailonline

Published: 13:23 EST, 5 August 2015 | Updated: 19:12 EST, 5 August 2015

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Pope Francis has said Catholics who remarry - and their children - deserve better treatment and warned his pastors not to discriminate against them.

The Catholic church suggests divorcees who marry again are 'living in sin' and should not receive communion. 

Now Francis, 78, has hinted the ban could someday be lifted by saying: 'They always belong to the church.'

Catholics who divorce but do not take up a new union, such as a second marriage, can still receive Communion. 

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Forgiving: Pope Francis (pictured) has said Catholics who remarry - and their children - deserve better treatment
 
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Forgiving: Pope Francis (pictured) has said Catholics who remarry - and their children - deserve better treatment

Hope: The Catholic church suggests divorcees who marry again are 'living in sin' and should not receive communion but Francis' new comments at the Vatican today give them hope
 
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Hope: The Catholic church suggests divorcees who marry again are 'living in sin' and should not receive communion but Francis' new comments at the Vatican today give them hope

New rules: Francis (pictured), 78, has hinted the communion ban could someday be lifted by saying of remarried Catholics: 'They always belong to the church
 
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New rules: Francis (pictured), 78, has hinted the communion ban could someday be lifted by saying of remarried Catholics: 'They always belong to the church

Fairness: 'People who started a new union after the defeat of their sacramental marriage are not at all excommunicated, and they absolutely must not be treated that way,' Francis (pictured) said
 
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Fairness: 'People who started a new union after the defeat of their sacramental marriage are not at all excommunicated, and they absolutely must not be treated that way,' Francis (pictured) said

Popular: Francis addressed hundreds of pilgrims and tourists at his first general audience since the summer break today
 
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Popular: Francis addressed hundreds of pilgrims and tourists at his first general audience since the summer break today

The Vatican will hold a month-long meeting on family issues this Autumn. Remarried Catholics hoped a similar meeting held earlier this year would result in the communion ban being lifted.

'People who started a new union after the defeat of their sacramental marriage are not at all excommunicated, and they absolutely must not be treated that way,' Francis told hundreds of pilgrims and tourists at his first general audience since the summer break. 

Francis acknowledged the Catholic church's rule that 'taking up a new union' after divorce is wrong but said the church must be one of 'open doors' and should 'seek the well-being and salvation of persons'.

He warned his pastors 'not to add additional weight' to the children of failed marriages, adding: 'Unfortunately the numbers of these children and young people are truly great.'

 
Pope says remarried Catholics are not 'excommunicated'
 
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'Living in sin': Francis (pictured) acknowledged the Catholic church's rule that 'taking up a new union' after divorce is wrong
 
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'Living in sin': Francis (pictured) acknowledged the Catholic church's rule that 'taking up a new union' after divorce is wrong

Change: But he added that the church must be one of 'open doors' and should 'seek the well-being and salvation of persons'
 
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Change: But he added that the church must be one of 'open doors' and should 'seek the well-being and salvation of persons'

The Argentinian pontiff also said it would be difficult to give these children 'an example of convinced and practiced faith' if their parents are kept fare from the community - 'as if they were excommunicated'.

He added: 'If we look at these new ties with the eyes of young children... we see ever more the urgency to develop in our community true welcome toward people living in these situations.'

Other than being widowed, the only possible way for Catholics to remarry is if they receive an annulment. 

That long, complicated process essentially involves examining whether the marriage ever existed in the first place. Grounds for annulment include refusal by a spouse to have children.

In the past, Pontiffs have complained that annulments in some places - notably in the United States - were being granted too liberally. 



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3186268/Divorced-people-remarry-church-not-treated-like-outcasts-declares-Pope.html#ixzz3i1t8kWmj
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RE: Divorced people who remarry are 'still part of the church' and should not be treated like outcasts, declares the Pop
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I like this Pope, he seems to truly hold people in his heart, and want them to feel embraced by the church.

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TrudyML


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I was happy when I heard that. Good!

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Lawyerlady


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Well, duh - why should that even be a question? Church is for everyone.

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I'm so glad I am not catholic.

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Well, I mean - I get the concept, actually. The church IS supposed to confront non-repetent sinning members and if they won't repent their sin, they the church has no choice.

But divorce is tricky. Yes, it is a sin. But, I'm really not aware of people who are divorcing continuously and happily and embracing that failure and wanting to do it again. I'm sure that Christians who divorce pray about it, ask forgiveness and repent. But that is between them and God. Once God has forgiven them - which the Bible says he will do when sincerely asked for foregiveness - who the hell is the church to say that is not good enough? And once God has forgiven you, you need to forgive yourself b/c who the hell are YOU not to forgive once God does? If you don't forgive yourself, you are not trusting in God's grace. Therefore - don't dwell in guilt once you have sincerely repented.

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What she said. ^

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I got married in the Catholic Church when I was 19. He was abusive, and I left him at 20. My ex went to the priest who married us to get him to persuade me to go back to him. The priest called me and recommended annulment, but could not do it for me as he was leaving the parish. After that, I was unable to get the other priests at my church to return my calls and gave up.

Then I began dating a guy whose mother was very generous to the church in another parish. She also was divorced from a man who left her for her cousin. She married my boyfriend's father twice. Once outside the church, and later in the church after her ex-husband died. When I met her, I was going through my divorce. She was so supportive. She told me stories of how she was treated as an outcast by the ladies of the church and told she was not worthy of putting the flowers up on the alter. She told me to hold my head up high and not let anyone tell me I'm not worthy. She also arranged for me to obtain an annulment from the church. "I am Father ______ and I would like to help you obtain your annulment" was a phone call that I received which brought tears of joy to my eyes. The basis for my annulment: Lack of consent.

DH was previously married in the church. He did not get an annulment. We were married by a JP. When we were registering for our church parish, the question came up as to prior marriages, etc. This information has never been used against us. We baptized our boys there, even had a private ceremony performed by the Pastor. We have been welcomed with open arms and receive communion every week. It never occurred to us that we shouldn't.

I think it is wonderful what this Pope has done.

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Lawyerlady wrote:

Well, I mean - I get the concept, actually. The church IS supposed to confront non-repetent sinning members and if they won't repent their sin, they the church has no choice.

But divorce is tricky. Yes, it is a sin. But, I'm really not aware of people who are divorcing continuously and happily and embracing that failure and wanting to do it again. I'm sure that Christians who divorce pray about it, ask forgiveness and repent. But that is between them and God. Once God has forgiven them - which the Bible says he will do when sincerely asked for foregiveness - who the hell is the church to say that is not good enough? And once God has forgiven you, you need to forgive yourself b/c who the hell are YOU not to forgive once God does? If you don't forgive yourself, you are not trusting in God's grace. Therefore - don't dwell in guilt once you have sincerely repented.

 I get the fact that you don't want to encourage divorce, but where is the redemption?  Is truly the only way to be forgiven for that is to go back to the marriage?  What if your ex spouse doesn't want that even if you would be willing.

Beyond that, what is repentance?  You  confess your sin before God and promise not to do it, again, yet we all know that most of the time the alcoholic will again get drunk, the gossip won't be able to stop themselves from spreading something juicy, you'll call in sick (cough, cough) to work when you really just want a day off, someone will see a hot movie star on TV and have another lustful thought.

 

Despite our best efforts, we all will sin again--and let's be honest, we don't give it our best, either.  

 

So ha how can a divorced person ever be redeemed?  This is where I really diverge with Catholic doctrine.  You can be forgiven for sins, even if you can't take them back.



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huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

Well, I mean - I get the concept, actually. The church IS supposed to confront non-repetent sinning members and if they won't repent their sin, they the church has no choice.

But divorce is tricky. Yes, it is a sin. But, I'm really not aware of people who are divorcing continuously and happily and embracing that failure and wanting to do it again. I'm sure that Christians who divorce pray about it, ask forgiveness and repent. But that is between them and God. Once God has forgiven them - which the Bible says he will do when sincerely asked for foregiveness - who the hell is the church to say that is not good enough? And once God has forgiven you, you need to forgive yourself b/c who the hell are YOU not to forgive once God does? If you don't forgive yourself, you are not trusting in God's grace. Therefore - don't dwell in guilt once you have sincerely repented.

 I get the fact that you don't want to encourage divorce, but where is the redemption?  Is truly the only way to be forgiven for that is to go back to the marriage?  What if your ex spouse doesn't want that even if you would be willing.

Beyond that, what is repentance?  You  confess your sin before God and promise not to do it, again, yet we all know that most of the time the alcoholic will again get drunk, the gossip won't be able to stop themselves from spreading something juicy, you'll call in sick (cough, cough) to work when you really just want a day off, someone will see a hot movie star on TV and have another lustful thought.

 

Despite our best efforts, we all will sin again--and let's be honest, we don't give it our best, either.  

 

So ha how can a divorced person ever be redeemed?  This is where I really diverge with Catholic doctrine.  You can be forgiven for sins, even if you can't take them back.

I am confused.  How does one take a sin back?  You lusted - you can't undo that.  You stole - you can give the thing back, but you can't undo the stealing in the first place.  You killed someone - you aren't God, you can't bring them back.  And if you want to get really technical - the divorce itself is not the sin.  It's being with another person after the divorce that is the sin.  So, I guess you could just live celibate and alone and not remarry until your ex dies.  But what about people who do remarry - once they are married again, how do they undo that without another divorce? 

We get forgiven of our sins - we don't have to take them back.  We have to admit they are sins, be sorry for them, and ask for forgiveness.



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Lawyerlady wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

Well, I mean - I get the concept, actually. The church IS supposed to confront non-repetent sinning members and if they won't repent their sin, they the church has no choice.

But divorce is tricky. Yes, it is a sin. But, I'm really not aware of people who are divorcing continuously and happily and embracing that failure and wanting to do it again. I'm sure that Christians who divorce pray about it, ask forgiveness and repent. But that is between them and God. Once God has forgiven them - which the Bible says he will do when sincerely asked for foregiveness - who the hell is the church to say that is not good enough? And once God has forgiven you, you need to forgive yourself b/c who the hell are YOU not to forgive once God does? If you don't forgive yourself, you are not trusting in God's grace. Therefore - don't dwell in guilt once you have sincerely repented.

 I get the fact that you don't want to encourage divorce, but where is the redemption?  Is truly the only way to be forgiven for that is to go back to the marriage?  What if your ex spouse doesn't want that even if you would be willing.

Beyond that, what is repentance?  You  confess your sin before God and promise not to do it, again, yet we all know that most of the time the alcoholic will again get drunk, the gossip won't be able to stop themselves from spreading something juicy, you'll call in sick (cough, cough) to work when you really just want a day off, someone will see a hot movie star on TV and have another lustful thought.

 

Despite our best efforts, we all will sin again--and let's be honest, we don't give it our best, either.  

 

So ha how can a divorced person ever be redeemed?  This is where I really diverge with Catholic doctrine.  You can be forgiven for sins, even if you can't take them back.

I am confused.  How does one take a sin back?  You lusted - you can't undo that.  You stole - you can give the thing back, but you can't undo the stealing in the first place.  You killed someone - you aren't God, you can't bring them back.  And if you want to get really technical - the divorce itself is not the sin.  It's being with another person after the divorce that is the sin.  So, I guess you could just live celibate and alone and not remarry until your ex dies.  But what about people who do remarry - once they are married again, how do they undo that without another divorce? 

We get forgiven of our sins - we don't have to take them back.  We have to admit they are sins, be sorry for them, and ask for forgiveness.

 I don't know, I cant follow their logic, either.



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I can tell you that being divorced seems to be a horrible thing still. Like one the level on a love child back in the 30s.

People tend to pity a divorcee.

I know I prayed and prayed and sought guidance and waited almost a full 3 years between separation and divorce.

I tried everything I knew to try to make things work.

I remember the day I felt free to get a divorce. He was here, pulled in the driveway, after not being around for 3 weeks, and had his new girlfriend and her 3 kids in the car. He made them stay in the car and he came to the door. Smelled like a brewery and smoke stack and hadn't washed in days. He stumbled in and asked why they didn't come in, it was hot and they didn't need to sit in a hot car.

He said, I ain't staying, I ain't doing nothing, picked up a bag of his things I had found and left, tires squealing.

And I had was done. He scared me with his actions and attitude but at the same time I had a clear voice in my head saying "it's time, there is nothing there anymore. It's going to be ok."

I filed that day.



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I don't think 99% of people WANT to divorce. Of all the divorced people I know only one couple divorced for weird reasons. They were married two months and decided they didn't want to be married anymore. I'm not sure how anything that bad could happen in two months. Although she had a set of mixed race twins that were, if you did the math, conceived during their marriage. They are both white. Her new b/f is black. I really have no idea what went on but I could guess.

Really most people don't want to get divorced.

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huskerbb


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I agree--but I've seen a LOT of couples who didn't do much to avoid it, either.

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Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

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I haven't seen that. But I don't doubt that it exists.

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