TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

'It's his service snake and we have to let him stay': Restaurant refuses to throw out man with boa constrictor

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Service animals (even emotional service animals) must wear a vest stating that they are working. Also, the owner is supposed to carry papers certifying that the animal is in fact a service animal. It is supposedly not legal to remove someone from the premises if they don't have the papers on them, but I am not sure about that, I have only heard that second hand. Regardless, I know the animal is required to wear identifying clothing/scarf/harness etc.

This was a case of an idiot abusing the system put in place for others because he wanted to. Not because he needed to. And it make it more difficult for those truly in need of service animals to get the respect they deserve because idiots like this give them all a bad name.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Why does the world always have to roll over and die for the idiots?

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Well the lawsuit from asking someone to leave if it was truly a service animal could have meant the end of that business. So in a way I understand their hesitation. But did no one at that business have a smartphone or a computer?! Use the Googler! Lol. Search engines are your friend. Find out what the regs are and then use your brain and kick that douche rocket to the curb.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Honestly, the overall theme in almost all the threads we discuss comes down to one simple concept: the ability to problem solve.

We do not teach problem solving in schools anymore. We teach to the test. We ask for facts to be regurgitated instead of teaching people to think. If we spent more time teaching people to think and solve problems, most of these issues would be obsolete.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

So this guy's snake has replaced his blankie.

Look. I have no problem with service animals who serve a real purpose. Alerting to seizures or for the blind.

But comfort?

I'm sorry. I gave a real hard time getting on board with that one.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

People with debilitating anxiety disorders can avoid having a full on panic attack by petting their animal. Also the animal can alert them when they are becoming stressed out, helping the owner to recognize the symptoms in the moment and take steps to avoid the stressors. It's a legitimate service.

Panic attacks are part of having an anxiety disorder and having one only increases the anxiety and makes it worse. These animals do wonderful things for people with this disease and enable them to leave the house and hold down jobs. I won't begrudge someone the tools they need to be a productive member of society. It hurts exactly no one to allow a small dog to sit on its owners lap at work.

The OP was NOT someone with a true service animal. He was a douche bag looking to get what he wanted by capitalizing on someone else's ignorance of the law.

-- Edited by Mellow Momma on Sunday 16th of August 2015 12:50:47 PM

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Also, according to the official licensing website for emotional support animals, they are only legally required to be present in two places - the cabin of an aircraft with their owner, and also in "pet free" housing. Neither of those two places can deny or charge a surcharge to an emotion support animal. Otherwise, they are bound by the same restrictions in public as a typical pet. Anyone can refuse their admittance at any time and the owner has no recourse.

huskerbb · Guru

I don't buy that "pets" are "service animals". AT ALL.

That's BS. If you can't fvcking function without your damn dog--stay the he!! home UNLESS it is for a PHYSICAL disability such as blindness.

ed11563 · Guru

What if someone with a concealed carry permit pulled out his or her 9mm and shot the dangerous snake?

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Really ed? I would imagine that would be a really dumb thing to do no matter how you feel. The owner could press charges.

ed11563 · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Really ed? I would imagine that would be a really dumb thing to do no matter how you feel. The owner could press charges.

"Officer, it was wrapped around his neck, and I saw that it was choking him! I shot it to save his life!"

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

ed11563 wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Really ed? I would imagine that would be a really dumb thing to do no matter how you feel. The owner could press charges.
"Officer, it was wrapped around his neck, and I saw that it was choking him! I shot it to save his life!"

Yeah, I don't think that would float. But whatever. Live in your own world.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I really don't see how a snake offers comfort.

And how on earth are we raising people who can't deal with daily situations? The best way to deal with anxiety is to deal with it. Work through it. Press on. Not sit in the corner rubbing your puppy. That escaping. Not working through.

We all deal with stress and anxiety about something.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Sorry, we are not talking about normal stress. We're talking about things like PTSD and extreme anxiety. These are real issues. Service pets can and do help.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

No. We are talking about a guy bringing his snake into a restaurant.

Snake scat is nasty. Snakes are nasty.

huskerbb · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Sorry, we are not talking about normal stress. We're talking about things like PTSD and extreme anxiety. These are real issues. Service pets can and do help.

Don't care. Your problems don't become everyone else's because you can't deal with sh!t.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Well the snake thing was stupid. I'm talking about REAL service pets. Not snakes that people are trying to pass off as service pets.

huskerbb · Guru

EVERYBODY says their pet gives them "comfort" or helps them "cope" or helps them with "depression"--EVERYBODY.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Sorry, we are not talking about normal stress. We're talking about things like PTSD and extreme anxiety. These are real issues. Service pets can and do help.
Don't care. Your problems don't become everyone else's because you can't deal with sh!t.

Oh, but they do nowadays husker. Your discomfort is irrelevant.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

There's a difference between a snake, someone who just wants to take Fido everywhere, and a true service pet.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

You know when people learn to deal with anxiety and stress? It starts when they are babies.

And the helicopter parents are making it worse and worse.

People need to get a back bone.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

And for the record, I'm not talking about the ones with true mental illness depression and anxiety.

I'm talking the general, mommy always took care of it, people who never learned to deal.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I have to leave this thread because it's become too judgemental for me. My daughter had debilitating anxiety. She manages to hold down a very good job because she has a service animal that she occasionally brings to work. I guess some of you would rather that she stay home and go on disability rather than get a job. Because those are her only options. Stay home and quit working or take her animal to work occasionally and get deal with her anxiety.

I am really glad none of you have had to deal with this issue in your lives. You would be a LOT more understanding of anxiety if you had. It isn't just learning to "deal with it". It's a mental illness with very physical symptoms that the person cannot control. It isn't about trying harder or wanting to get better. It's not in their control.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

And that's the thing. A true issue of mental illness is different from 99% of the depression, anxiety and other convenient diagnosis of the day.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Anxiety and depression are "true mental illness". Whatever that means.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Geez. I thought I was being clear.

Some one who is truly living with debilitating anxiety is rare. Too many grasp a diagnosis without actually having the problem.

It's like the ADHD thing. It is real. But every child who can't sit still has it.

Get what I am saying now?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

And for the record, I have dealt with these in my life. Still do. I had to learn to deal. It isn't anyone else's problem but my own.

huskerbb · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
I have to leave this thread because it's become too judgemental for me. My daughter had debilitating anxiety. She manages to hold down a very good job because she has a service animal that she occasionally brings to work. I guess some of you would rather that she stay home and go on disability rather than get a job. Because those are her only options. Stay home and quit working or take her animal to work occasionally and get deal with her anxiety.

I am really glad none of you have had to deal with this issue in your lives. You would be a LOT more understanding of anxiety if you had. It isn't just learning to "deal with it". It's a mental illness with very physical symptoms that the person cannot control. It isn't about trying harder or wanting to get better. It's not in their control.

Or buck up and be mentally tougher.

Janies Friend · Newbie

Mellow Momma wrote:
Service animals (even emotional service animals) must wear a vest stating that they are working. Also, the owner is supposed to carry papers certifying that the animal is in fact a service animal. It is supposedly not legal to remove someone from the premises if they don't have the papers on them, but I am not sure about that, I have only heard that second hand. Regardless, I know the animal is required to wear identifying clothing/scarf/harness etc.

This was a case of an idiot abusing the system put in place for others because he wanted to. Not because he needed to. And it make it more difficult for those truly in need of service animals to get the respect they deserve because idiots like this give them all a bad name.

Actually not true. Service dogs of the sort protects by the ADA do not have to wear an identifier of any sort and there is no agency that certifies service dogs, so no official papers. This is why the concept is so widely abused.

In addition, "emotional support" animals are not protected by the ADA and do not legally have to be admitted to public places.

This is restaurant owner erred by not knowing the law and should have asked the diner to leave - with his snake.

Janies Friend · Newbie

Mellow Momma wrote:
People with debilitating anxiety disorders can avoid having a full on panic attack by petting their animal. Also the animal can alert them when they are becoming stressed out, helping the owner to recognize the symptoms in the moment and take steps to avoid the stressors. It's a legitimate service.

Panic attacks are part of having an anxiety disorder and having one only increases the anxiety and makes it worse. These animals do wonderful things for people with this disease and enable them to leave the house and hold down jobs. I won't begrudge someone the tools they need to be a productive member of society. It hurts exactly no one to allow a small dog to sit on its owners lap at work.

The OP was NOT someone with a true service animal. He was a douche bag looking to get what he wanted by capitalizing on someone else's ignorance of the law.

-- Edited by Mellow Momma on Sunday 16th of August 2015 12:50:47 PM

I have an anxiety disorder and have occasional panic attacks. I manage my problem with medication and do not feel the need to impose an animal that is not a service animal to my workplace.

Janies Friend · Newbie

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Sorry, we are not talking about normal stress. We're talking about things like PTSD and extreme anxiety. These are real issues. Service pets can and do help.

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a service pet. There is only service animal, a dog per ADA.

Janies Friend · Newbie

Mellow Momma wrote:
I have to leave this thread because it's become too judgemental for me. My daughter had debilitating anxiety. She manages to hold down a very good job because she has a service animal that she occasionally brings to work. I guess some of you would rather that she stay home and go on disability rather than get a job. Because those are her only options. Stay home and quit working or take her animal to work occasionally and get deal with her anxiety.

I am really glad none of you have had to deal with this issue in your lives. You would be a LOT more understanding of anxiety if you had. It isn't just learning to "deal with it". It's a mental illness with very physical symptoms that the person cannot control. It isn't about trying harder or wanting to get better. It's not in their control.

As I mentioned above, I have this disorder. There are ways to manage it - medication, therapy, etc - that do not involve bringing an animal to work with me. I also hold down a very good job.

ed11563 · Guru

Janies Friend wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
I have to leave this thread because it's become too judgemental for me. My daughter had debilitating anxiety. She manages to hold down a very good job because she has a service animal that she occasionally brings to work. I guess some of you would rather that she stay home and go on disability rather than get a job. Because those are her only options. Stay home and quit working or take her animal to work occasionally and get deal with her anxiety.

I am really glad none of you have had to deal with this issue in your lives. You would be a LOT more understanding of anxiety if you had. It isn't just learning to "deal with it". It's a mental illness with very physical symptoms that the person cannot control. It isn't about trying harder or wanting to get better. It's not in their control.
As I mentioned above, I have this disorder. There are ways to manage it - medication, therapy, etc - that do not involve bringing an animal to work with me. I also hold down a very good job.

Did you ever hear of someone having a boa constrictor as a service animal?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I hear it's hugs are breath taking.

Badumpbump.

Ilumine · Regular

huskerbb wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
I have to leave this thread because it's become too judgemental for me. My daughter had debilitating anxiety. She manages to hold down a very good job because she has a service animal that she occasionally brings to work. I guess some of you would rather that she stay home and go on disability rather than get a job. Because those are her only options. Stay home and quit working or take her animal to work occasionally and get deal with her anxiety.

I am really glad none of you have had to deal with this issue in your lives. You would be a LOT more understanding of anxiety if you had. It isn't just learning to "deal with it". It's a mental illness with very physical symptoms that the person cannot control. It isn't about trying harder or wanting to get better. It's not in their control.
Or buck up and be mentally tougher.

As usual Husker, you are being an uneducated ass. Do you not believe in Diabetes or Hypo/Hyperthyroidism? Two diseases that are caused by the body's incorrect secretion of chemicals. Just because science (and the funding has never been put towards discovering the hows of mental illnesses, but rather on finding a quick fix pill to shore up the symptoms) hasn't been able to pinpoint exactly what is going on with each disease, there is enough evidence to show that these are diseases. There has been enough scientific research to show genetic links and even drilling down to the specific gene for some diseases. Just because there are only TWO diseases (Huntingtons and Jacob-Cruetzfelt) with specific, physical tests to confirm them doesn't not mean that there wont be more...if we actually start funding that research.

The same can be said about diseases that hardwired in the brain. Neuro-networking is science. We know for a fact that the brain makes neural-pathways when we learn, from basic data to how we feel. The brain is literally creating new neural pathways, much like the interstate highway system, that carries information from one neuron to the next. These neurons clump together and are associated with each other as one thing leads you to think of another thing or as one task must be understood to understand the following one - everything you learn at home, in school and on the job becomes part of our associations or neural pathways*.

These scientifically proven neural pathways - or how your brain is created not only control information, but they control "memories and FEELINGS" as a neural pathway is sparked through the brains processing. But more so, they also control the body's PHYSICAL reaction to these memories and feelings. It is not just revisiting a sad, bad or good memories. Once the brain "trips" that Neuron Clump, the clump will release various hormones.

In the case of Anxiety, the body releases adrenaline and cortisol, which causes very real very physical reactions. SCIENTIFIC FACT.

The point is Husker, your continual dismissal of the science behind mental illness pretty much makes anything you write about mental illnesses, well rude and pointless.

If you want to discuss the differences between treatment, the merits of pharmaceutical vs cognitive therapy and the use of therapy animals, that is one thing. But to dismiss the actual physical body response to anxiety just makes you look like a fool.

*Most of our neural pathway making ends by the age of 5, so early intervention/interaction children is extremely important.

Ilumine · Regular

As for the original post, there IS a difference between Service Animals (which can include more than just dogs), Psychiatric Service Dogs and Emotional Service Dogs.

True SERVICE animals must perform a specific task to help their owner, whose disability either prohibits severely limits the ability to overcome. Emotional Service Animals, just provide comfort and while they are important, are not servicing. Basically, the courts have ruled that True Service Animals must do a task that is not natural to the animal and be trained for; must mitigate an actual disability and; must be needed by that specific handler.

So you can't say that you need a dog to carry your meds, because you can wear clothes with pockets or retrieve a newspaper for someone with agoraphobia since they can get the news via the internet.

huskerbb · Guru

Ilumine wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
I have to leave this thread because it's become too judgemental for me. My daughter had debilitating anxiety. She manages to hold down a very good job because she has a service animal that she occasionally brings to work. I guess some of you would rather that she stay home and go on disability rather than get a job. Because those are her only options. Stay home and quit working or take her animal to work occasionally and get deal with her anxiety.

I am really glad none of you have had to deal with this issue in your lives. You would be a LOT more understanding of anxiety if you had. It isn't just learning to "deal with it". It's a mental illness with very physical symptoms that the person cannot control. It isn't about trying harder or wanting to get better. It's not in their control.
Or buck up and be mentally tougher.
As usual Husker, you are being an uneducated ass. Do you not believe in Diabetes or Hypo/Hyperthyroidism? Two diseases that are caused by the body's incorrect secretion of chemicals. Just because science (and the funding has never been put towards discovering the hows of mental illnesses, but rather on finding a quick fix pill to shore up the symptoms) hasn't been able to pinpoint exactly what is going on with each disease, there is enough evidence to show that these are diseases. There has been enough scientific research to show genetic links and even drilling down to the specific gene for some diseases. Just because there are only TWO diseases (Huntingtons and Jacob-Cruetzfelt) with specific, physical tests to confirm them doesn't not mean that there wont be more...if we actually start funding that research.
The same can be said about diseases that hardwired in the brain. Neuro-networking is science. We know for a fact that the brain makes neural-pathways when we learn, from basic data to how we feel. The brain is literally creating new neural pathways, much like the interstate highway system, that carries information from one neuron to the next. These neurons clump together and are associated with each other as one thing leads you to think of another thing or as one task must be understood to understand the following one - everything you learn at home, in school and on the job becomes part of our associations or neural pathways*.
These scientifically proven neural pathways - or how your brain is created not only control information, but they control "memories and FEELINGS" as a neural pathway is sparked through the brains processing. But more so, they also control the body's PHYSICAL reaction to these memories and feelings. It is not just revisiting a sad, bad or good memories. Once the brain "trips" that Neuron Clump, the clump will release various hormones.
In the case of Anxiety, the body releases adrenaline and cortisol, which causes very real very physical reactions. SCIENTIFIC FACT.
The point is Husker, your continual dismissal of the science behind mental illness pretty much makes anything you write about mental illnesses, well rude and pointless.

If you want to discuss the differences between treatment, the merits of pharmaceutical vs cognitive therapy and the use of therapy animals, that is one thing. But to dismiss the actual physical body response to anxiety just makes you look like a fool.

*Most of our neural pathway making ends by the age of 5, so early intervention/interaction children is extremely important.

Blah, blah, blah

Tinydancer · Guru

Witty argument husker...lol. Reptiles carry salmonella so they should never be allowed in restaurants.

huskerbb · Guru

Just as "witty" as the one I responded to.

Tinydancer · Guru

She was giving you facts not being witty. Next you'll say she's yammering then we'll know you really don't have an argument...

huskerbb · Guru

I don't give a crap about her facts.

Tinydancer · Guru

Yes. I've noticed you don't really care about facts.

Lindley · Guru

My cousins wife is involved in therepet and it is a wonderful organization. dogs make great service animals and are used for blind people, people with seizures and ptsd. They are used in nursing homes, hospitals because by petting them it helps the patient to relax. I don't think just because someone has issues that requires a dog should have to stay home for life. I do think they should wear vests (the dog) that proclaims they are a working dog. I really doubt that the snake was any kind of therapy pet. They just wanted to bring in that nasty thing.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lindley wrote:
My cousins wife is involved in therepet and it is a wonderful organization. dogs make great service animals and are used for blind people, people with seizures and ptsd. They are used in nursing homes, hospitals because by petting them it helps the patient to relax. I don't think just because someone has issues that requires a dog should have to stay home for life. I do think they should wear vests (the dog) that proclaims they are a working dog. I really doubt that the snake was any kind of therapy pet. They just wanted to bring in that nasty thing.

Both you and Ilumine are very well spoken. Yes, there ARE service pets. Most of them are dogs. What they do is amazing. There are many movies about what they go through to train them. They are carefully selected too. A lot of time and money is invested in those service dogs. I have no issues with someone having a service dog in a store.

This douche just wanted to bring his pet.

huskerbb · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lindley wrote:
My cousins wife is involved in therepet and it is a wonderful organization. dogs make great service animals and are used for blind people, people with seizures and ptsd. They are used in nursing homes, hospitals because by petting them it helps the patient to relax. I don't think just because someone has issues that requires a dog should have to stay home for life. I do think they should wear vests (the dog) that proclaims they are a working dog. I really doubt that the snake was any kind of therapy pet. They just wanted to bring in that nasty thing.
Both you and Ilumine are very well spoken. Yes, there ARE service pets. Most of them are dogs. What they do is amazing. There are many movies about what they go through to train them. They are carefully selected too. A lot of time and money is invested in those service dogs. I have no issues with someone having a service dog in a store.
This douche just wanted to bring his pet.

As does EVERYONE who thinks the rules don't apply to them.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

huskerbb wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lindley wrote:
My cousins wife is involved in therepet and it is a wonderful organization. dogs make great service animals and are used for blind people, people with seizures and ptsd. They are used in nursing homes, hospitals because by petting them it helps the patient to relax. I don't think just because someone has issues that requires a dog should have to stay home for life. I do think they should wear vests (the dog) that proclaims they are a working dog. I really doubt that the snake was any kind of therapy pet. They just wanted to bring in that nasty thing.
Both you and Ilumine are very well spoken. Yes, there ARE service pets. Most of them are dogs. What they do is amazing. There are many movies about what they go through to train them. They are carefully selected too. A lot of time and money is invested in those service dogs. I have no issues with someone having a service dog in a store.
This douche just wanted to bring his pet.
As does EVERYONE who thinks the rules don't apply to them.

What does this even mean husker? You're spouting off words that don't make sense. Of course this guy didn't think the rules applied to him.

huskerbb · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lindley wrote:
My cousins wife is involved in therepet and it is a wonderful organization. dogs make great service animals and are used for blind people, people with seizures and ptsd. They are used in nursing homes, hospitals because by petting them it helps the patient to relax. I don't think just because someone has issues that requires a dog should have to stay home for life. I do think they should wear vests (the dog) that proclaims they are a working dog. I really doubt that the snake was any kind of therapy pet. They just wanted to bring in that nasty thing.
Both you and Ilumine are very well spoken. Yes, there ARE service pets. Most of them are dogs. What they do is amazing. There are many movies about what they go through to train them. They are carefully selected too. A lot of time and money is invested in those service dogs. I have no issues with someone having a service dog in a store.
This douche just wanted to bring his pet.
As does EVERYONE who thinks the rules don't apply to them.
What does this even mean husker? You're spouting off words that don't make sense. Of course this guy didn't think the rules applied to him.

anyone and everyone can say their pet is a service animal. He's hardly unique.

i I don't buy that people can't function for a couple of hours without their damn dog.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

First, no, anyone and everyone cannot say their pet is a service pet. I mean they CAN but they'd be wrong.

It's really sad you are so blind. Many many many of our vets live with service dogs. ESPECIALLY the ones with PTSD. I wouldn't begrudge a vet a service dog for anything. Vets have contributed so much to this country. Much much much more than some people I can think of.

huskerbb · Guru

So if he was a vet you'd be ok? How do you know he was not?

TOTALLY GEEKED!

'It's his service snake and we have to let him stay': Restaurant refuses to throw out man with boa constrictor around his neck after he told them it helps with his depression

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