I asked my grown sons what they would do in a situation like the one in Oregon ...
The response from DS1:
What I would like to do, in that kind of scenario, is to pick up a desk and throw it at him, and pick up another and charge. Or waited until his back was to me, and then either stabbed him in the kidneys with a pencil or put an arm around his throat and tried to choke him, maybe stab him in the neck with a pencil as part of that.
But, far more likely I would have frozen or tried to hide. I have almost never done well in the face of physical danger.
-DS1
Ed wrote on 10/4/2015 7:25 AM:
Discussing the latest school shooting in Oregon, one of my friends wrote ...
"The more I read about the accounts from the survivors, the witnesses, the less I understand why they did not attempt to stop him, why they did not "rush" toward him. Not blaming them, but as a society, have we placed the "protection" burden elsewhere and so just do what the perp says to do? I really do think that is part of the issue."
My thoughts:
"I think you've expressed a very important point.
Since the Holocaust, Jews generally say "NEVER AGAIN", which affects the thinking about Iran's nukes.
But as you say, most people don't act. Maybe it's disbelief, maybe it's just being frozen with fear, maybe it's "magical thinking". But any way I think of it, it's very scary and disappointing.
I watch the TV show "What Would You Do?" and think about their scenarios, where people can intervene in a problem situation at NO risk to themselves, and very few people do.
Then when there MIGHT be some risk, like if they would have to stand up to a bully to rescue someone ...
Many more people just walk on by.
A few will call 9-1-1, very few will say something or physically intervene... very few.
But THESE college age people should have known after the first shot, that they had nothing to lose by charging him. "
So my question to the men I helped raise is,
What do you think you would have done, what do you think you would DO when faced with an active shooter, picking people off one by one like that?
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The Principle of Least Interest: He who cares least about a relationship, controls it.
No one knows what they will do in that kind of situation.
The only thing a person can do is be aware of their surroundings and try to act quickly if need be.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
I would probably hit the dirt or try to hide, I'd try to bring anyone near me to the ground too (or into my hiding spot). But it's hard to know. I think it would depend on how close the shooter was to me. Maybe.
Unless you're young and reckless, or have had some sort of training that has prepared you to run into the crisis, I think that is human nature.
Well u dont know if yoy have nothing to lose by charging or not. You could die. You could die if u dont or maybe help would arrive in time or the shooter finds another target more appealing. I think you do have to assume that maximum carnage is intended. Like 911 , the victims did realize the situation and took action. At first they didnt know if it was a hijacking or wha.
Well I'd like to think I'd be able to toss a pen and jam their gun. Be all Batman and such.
But the truth is, there would probably be a code yellow followed quickly by a code brown.
In the training classes I've been in, you learn to use what is in reach to defend or hide.
And if grabbed, go limp. The won't want to drag you.
There are defense classes you can take to teach you how to use those common things. Like I said.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
lol, Lily, at your codes. But you're right about the self defense training. Another thing, if they're trying to take you as a hostage, even after going limp, fight like hell. Do not get in their car, your chances are better taking a bullet there on the curb than getting in the car.
By training classes, I was thinking police, military, maybe firefighters, that sort of training.
lol, Lily, at your codes. But you're right about the self defense training. Another thing, if they're trying to take you as a hostage, even after going limp, fight like hell. Do not get in their car, your chances are better taking a bullet there on the curb than getting in the car.
By training classes, I was thinking police, military, maybe firefighters, that sort of training.
Yes. We had some training by police.
Not how to stop anything. Just how to stay alive and what to take note of.
The biggest thing is to do is pay attention to your surroundings.
They stressed that more than anything.
Who is there, where they are, what they are doing, strange behavior.
And be aware of the exits.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
No one knows what they will do in that kind of situation.
The only thing a person can do is be aware of their surroundings and try to act quickly if need be.
Yeah, no one can truly say unless they are faced with it. I would certainly like to think I would at least try to take the shooter down. I mean, if he's killing people, anyway, might as well TRY. There's not much to lose at that point.
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I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
I would probably hit the dirt or try to hide, I'd try to bring anyone near me to the ground too (or into my hiding spot). But it's hard to know. I think it would depend on how close the shooter was to me. Maybe. Unless you're young and reckless, or have had some sort of training that has prepared you to run into the crisis, I think that is human nature.
That's true, too. If you can safely get away or hide, that is an option. In the closed classroom where this shooter did most of the damage, might as well try to do something because you are about as likely to die, either way.
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I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
I think it is wise to at least consider how to react in some of these scenarios. But, if someone just walks up to you and shoots you 3 sec later Flannigan or a lot of these other killings, there is little you could do, even if you had a concealed weapons. If you have time to react, then yes, you either need to flee, if possible and if not, then find some way to fight back.
I think it is wise to at least consider how to react in some of these scenarios. But, if someone just walks up to you and shoots you 3 sec later Flannigan or a lot of these other killings, there is little you could do, even if you had a concealed weapons. If you have time to react, then yes, you either need to flee, if possible and if not, then find some way to fight back.
But if several people had concealed weapons, it is doubtful the shooter could pick them all out of a crowd and shoot them before at least one of them could get some return fire in.
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I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
I have actually been in a couple of hostage-type situations. One was being in a group of hostages, the other was in a negotiator capacity. I also have a permit to carry concealed, unfortunately, at my current place of employment, weapons are not allowed on the premises so I am not able to carry while at work. In the situation described, and it being a university, they probably had some kind of no weapons policy in effect as well. If I was there and that was not the case, I would have shot the gunman at the first opportunity I had if I was one of the hostages. The guy had nothing to lose. People like that don't care about anything. They are not capable of feeling compassion or remorse. With some, one cannot even try to negotiate. In this situation, taking him out would have been the only option.
As I have stated in prior posts, I have no fear of death. I also know what it feels like to be shot and survive. That being, I would not hesitate to take on the shooter. My life is just me. Perhaps not significant. I have no one waiting at home for me. I don't have many possessions. No one would remember me or mourn me. If I can save a number of people knowing that I may die because of it, then I will. I do not have to put any thought into it, it is what I would do. I am the person who goes rushing in when there is a crisis. That's how I am wired.
As for the increased incidences in these types of shootings, each of us as a part of society only have ourselves to blame. Every single one of us. We keep dropping the ball somewhere, somehow, and expect there will be no consequences as a result. Be accountable for yourselves, people. The world doesn't owe you. Nobody owes you. Do not blame your shortcomings on others. But yeah, that will never happen. And so it continues. . . . . . .
believe it's situational--a lot depends on your proximity to the shooter(s) and their intent--those two things determine to a great extent what you or anyone else are capable of doing in the moment
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" the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. "--edmund burke
believe it's situational--a lot depends on your proximity to the shooter(s) and their intent--those two things determine to a great extent what you or anyone else are capable of doing in the moment
Well, the proximity is very true--not sure you can truly gauge intent other than if you see him shooting at someone, you know it's bad.
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I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
I think for some individuals, running toward the gunfire may be instinctual to save others. Those individuals are the real hero's of the world. Others would freeze or run away. If you freeze, you're probably going to be dead for sure. I hope I would be one to run toward, rather than to run away from danger. I am sure it would be a last second judgment call. This issue makes me think of the three Americans on the French train that saved so many from a nut job with a lot of guns and ammo. They ran toward the danger, not away. Granted, two of them are military, but the third was not. I sincerely hope I never have to face this choice, but it is wise to think about the possibility. We do travel a lot.
-- Edited by just Czech on Monday 5th of October 2015 05:24:38 PM
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I drink coffee so I don't kill you.
I quilt so I don't kill you.
Do you see a theme?
Faith isn't something that keeps bad things from happening. Faith is what helps us get through bad things when they do happen.
