TOTALLY GEEKED!

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Odd thing for a Doctor to say

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Oh and the BF is 63

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

And his biopsy was done a month ago, just received the result this week. He can't even get a consultation appointment for another 3 weeks. Shouldn't this resolution be rushed?

ed11563 · Guru

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
So the BF of a good friend of mine was diagnosed with prostrate cancer. His brother passed from it about 7 years ago. Although not in an advanced stage, his options are not great; take a good portion of the colon out leaving him to wear a bag, plus chemo, etc. He asked his Doc what he would do. The Doc replied "my father is 82 and if he had this I would tell him to do nothing and live the rest of his life the way he wants"

I find that an awful reply from the Doctor.

If he had a biopsy, and the doctor isn't in any hurry to operate, or even meet with him, it's probably something that's very slow-growing.

Many men diagnosed in their 60's will die from other, unrelated causes in their 70's or 80's or later.

Most prostate cancer does not metastasize like breast or other cancers.

If it was me, I'd be calling that doctor once or twice a day for a LOT more details.

Lindley · Guru

Sounds like he should seek a second opinion. That was a horrible thing to say to someone who just found out they had cancer. 63 isn't that old.

FNW · Guru

Since Obamacare, doctors are thinning the herds.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Sounds like the standard "don't give a crap" answer.

He needs to go to another doctor.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

FNW wrote:
Since Obamacare, doctors are thinning the herds.

Yep.

Ohfour · Hooker

Welcome to universal health care!!!!

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Yep, buried a cousin yesterday because he couldn't get insurance.

That wonderful ACA, everyone gets it, insurance.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

82 is a lot different than 63. I might take that advice at 82. But, 63? No.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

FNW wrote:
Since Obamacare, doctors are thinning the herds.

They have age quotas is my assumption. It isn't the Doctors' to do, it is the ACA rules I think.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lindley wrote:
Sounds like he should seek a second opinion. That was a horrible thing to say to someone who just found out they had cancer. 63 isn't that old.

He is getting a second opinion on the behest of my friend. This is horrible. The care has to begin before it reaches his bones, or else he is done for.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

He asked & the doctor gave him an honest answer.

flan

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

flan327 wrote:
He asked & the doctor gave him an honest answer.

flan

What is going through your mind? That everyone should just lay down and die? The guy is not is not 82, and even if he were, why would he choose "none of the above" if he wants to fight to live? The question was asked to help choose a course of action, doing nothing was not one of the options.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
flan327 wrote:
He asked & the doctor gave him an honest answer.

flan
What is going through your mind? That everyone should just lay down and die? The guy is not is not 82, and even if he were, why would he choose "none of the above" if he wants to fight to live? The question was asked to help choose a course of action, doing nothing was not one of the options.

I agree that his age makes a difference.

Doing nothing can indeed be an option.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well i think is fair advice and a fair answer. Prostate cancer is different than other cancers. It is not highly treatable with chemo. Removing tge prostate is a big operation. It may leave nen impotent and with bladder incontinence issues. My Fi
IL died from prostate cancer. Abd my overly aggressive SIL who demaned that Everything be done ebsured that he died a miserable wasting death in a diaper.
If u want a doctor to "do everything" you can certainly find one. Or you can listen to the experience of doctors who know what doesnt really work and only destroys the quality of one's life. Get a second opinion. But some things in life we just have to face.

Fort Worth Mom · Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
So the BF of a good friend of mine was diagnosed with prostrate cancer. His brother passed from it about 7 years ago. Although not in an advanced stage, his options are not great; take a good portion of the colon out leaving him to wear a bag, plus chemo, etc. He asked his Doc what he would do. The Doc replied "my father is 82 and if he had this I would tell him to do nothing and live the rest of his life the way he wants"

I find that an awful reply from the Doctor.

I'm confused.

If he has prostrate cancer. (Which, from my understanding, is usually slow growing. And not very near, the colon.) He probably has time, to think over his options.)

Does he have colon cancer? Or, prostate cancer?

If he has colon cancer, he can still take some time, to think it over.

This has me confused.

burns07 · Guru

believe the doc gave him an honest answer--prostate cancer is rather slow growing--there are other options than those mentioned in the op--every case is unique to the individual and we aren't privy to all the details ( besides not being physicians )

my father was a physician and surgeon and one of the things he told me has always remained with me: " surgery is not always the best option. "

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Yes he wont have a colostomy.

He has time to get a second opinion so he should.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

He should give him ALL the options. Including not doing anything. He should be told what each option is and what each option should entail. Like LGS said some of the treatments have worse side effects than not doing anything. I'm not saying he should give up at all but he should be educated about every option and then given the choice to make his own decision.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well said NJN
Find out All the options. Then make an informed decision.

weltschmerz · Guru

If it's a slow-growing prostate cancer, why are they talking abut removing his colon and giving him a colostomy?
Has it spread to his bowels? I'm confused as well.
Most, not all, but most prostate cancers are extremely slow-growing, and it's true. Most older prostate cancer sufferers will die of something else.
You have to weigh all the options. Some of the treatments are just as bad as the cancer itself. Some people would prefer not to deal with the deleterious effects of impotence, incontinence, radiation and heaven forbid, a colostomy. They choose to live with the cancer, because the treatments will negatively affect their quality of life. For many, living with the cancer is easier.
The doctor was being honest.
It's something to think about, get a second opinion, and not make rush decisions.

weltschmerz · Guru

If you are older or have other serious health problems and your cancer is slow growing (low-grade), you might find it helpful to think of prostate cancer as a chronic disease that will probably not lead to your death but may cause symptoms you want to avoid. You may be more inclined to consider active surveillance, and less inclined to consider treatments that are likely to cause major side effects, such as radiation and surgery. Of course, age itself is not necessarily the best basis on which to make your choice.

www.cancer.org/cancer/prostatecancer/detailedguide/prostate-cancer-treating-considering-options

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

weltschmerz wrote:
If it's a slow-growing prostate cancer, why are they talking abut removing his colon and giving him a colostomy?
Has it spread to his bowels? I'm confused as well.
Most, not all, but most prostate cancers are extremely slow-growing, and it's true. Most older prostate cancer sufferers will die of something else.
You have to weigh all the options. Some of the treatments are just as bad as the cancer itself. Some people would prefer not to deal with the deleterious effects of impotence, incontinence, radiation and heaven forbid, a colostomy. They choose to live with the cancer, because the treatments will negatively affect their quality of life. For many, living with the cancer is easier.
The doctor was being honest.
It's something to think about, get a second opinion, and not make rush decisions.

Maybe I'm selfish but all those would play into my decision process.

weltschmerz · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
If it's a slow-growing prostate cancer, why are they talking abut removing his colon and giving him a colostomy?
Has it spread to his bowels? I'm confused as well.
Most, not all, but most prostate cancers are extremely slow-growing, and it's true. Most older prostate cancer sufferers will die of something else.
You have to weigh all the options. Some of the treatments are just as bad as the cancer itself. Some people would prefer not to deal with the deleterious effects of impotence, incontinence, radiation and heaven forbid, a colostomy. They choose to live with the cancer, because the treatments will negatively affect their quality of life. For many, living with the cancer is easier.
The doctor was being honest.
It's something to think about, get a second opinion, and not make rush decisions.
Maybe I'm selfish but all those would play into my decision process.

Of course!

I've even known younger men who chose to live with the cancer and let the chips fall where they may later on.

Living with incontinence, a colostomy and impotence was just not an option for them. Totally unacceptable.

Yes, they'll live longer, but what kind of life will it be?

-- Edited by weltschmerz on Thursday 11th of February 2016 11:20:35 PM

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Regardless of what people say sex is a huge part of life. Sure, you can live without it. And people have. I wouldn't leave my husband if something debilitating happened to him. But we're already married. If I met a stranger with existing problems it most definitely would play into my decision.

Fort Worth Mom · Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

Why would prostate cancer, be a reason for taking out part of the colon?

Really? confuse

WYSIWYG · Guru

Considering the problem, I don't find "do nothing and lead a good happy life while you can" to be bad advice. As others have said there are a lot of bad side effects to treating either cancer. And sometimes the "cure" is worse than the "disease".

A second opinion, or a third one after that, couldn't hurt though.

WYSIWYG · Guru

Also his question wasn't "what are my options?" it was "what should I do?"

It's possible that the doctor would have laid out his options if he'd asked for them. It's also possible he did ask that and the doctor did lay them out and then he asked his "what should I do?" question, but neglected to include the "options" portion of the conversation when he reiterated it to you.

Fort Worth Mom · Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

Or, just stay far away from doctors.

Just an idea. wink

weltschmerz · Guru

Fort Worth Mom wrote:
Or, just stay far away from doctors.
Just an idea.

Or you can just put a little yellow mustard on it.

wink

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

WYSIWYG wrote:
Also his question wasn't "what are my options?" it was "what should I do?"

It's possible that the doctor would have laid out his options if he'd asked for them. It's also possible he did ask that and the doctor did lay them out and then he asked his "what should I do?" question, but neglected to include the "options" portion of the conversation when he reiterated it to you.

Right. Regardless of what the patient meant, the doctor answered.

IKWTDS, I wish him all the best.

flan

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Fort Worth Mom wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
So the BF of a good friend of mine was diagnosed with prostrate cancer. His brother passed from it about 7 years ago. Although not in an advanced stage, his options are not great; take a good portion of the colon out leaving him to wear a bag, plus chemo, etc. He asked his Doc what he would do. The Doc replied "my father is 82 and if he had this I would tell him to do nothing and live the rest of his life the way he wants"

I find that an awful reply from the Doctor.
I'm confused.
If he has prostrate cancer. (Which, from my understanding, is usually slow growing. And not very near, the colon.) He probably has time, to think over his options.)
Does he have colon cancer? Or, prostate cancer?
If he has colon cancer, he can still take some time, to think it over.
This has me confused.

Yeah, sorry, have my body parts messed up. Prostate cancer.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

flan327 wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
Also his question wasn't "what are my options?" it was "what should I do?"

It's possible that the doctor would have laid out his options if he'd asked for them. It's also possible he did ask that and the doctor did lay them out and then he asked his "what should I do?" question, but neglected to include the "options" portion of the conversation when he reiterated it to you.
Right. Regardless of what the patient meant, the doctor answered.
IKWTDS, I wish him all the best.
flan

True, and it could be the doctor told him all sorts of things and BF focused in on that one statement. I'm glad he is getting a second opinion. My friend is really worried.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

He asked his Doc what HE would do.

Reread that. He asked his Doctor, "if you were in my shoes, what would YOU do"? That is an invite for a personal perspective from the Doctor. What would this doctor do if HE was in this situation. That is a completely different question than "What should I do not Doctor?" We have all asked professional people for their own personal opinions on what they would do personally if in a similar situation. And, the Doctor gave his honest answer which presumably that is what someone would want. So, i don't see how there can be anything "odd" or awful about that. And, i really don't think I would take that in a way it isnt intended to be taken. It just shedding some perspective.

Now at this point, he should talk to the doctor about what all the Options are and get informed. As other posters are saying, most men die of natural causes before the prostate cancer reaches a stage to harm them. Obviously cancer is damn scary. And, nobody wants a single cancer cell in their body. But, the quest to destroy every cell when there is really no actual harm can result in far, far worse issues.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

And the doctor should have said it wasn't about what he would do and talked about the options.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
And the doctor should have said it wasn't about what he would do and talked about the options.

I disagree. If you have a good relationship with your doctor, it isn't unusual to ask him/her how they would proceed in a similar circumstance. And, there was apparently some mention of surgery, etc. But, of course, if you don't feel that you understand all of your options, then you definitely need to find out what those are and be as informed as possible.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

If you are in the doctors office and it is an official visit, it has nothing to do with what the doctor would do if it were him.

The doctor should give the options and answer questions about the patient.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
If you are in the doctors office and it is an official visit, it has nothing to do with what the doctor would do if it were him.

The doctor should give the options and answer questions about the patient.

Did you not read the OP? It says surgery, chemo, etc were discussed. And, i live in a small town, so we know are doctors and they will give you personal opinions if you ask them for a personal opinion. Sheesh. They aren't robots. I appreciate doctors who do that and their doing so has helped me make decisions.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

And personal opinions are not professional.

I know a lot of doctors and the last thing they want to do is confuse personal and professional opinions.

I've asked doctors for their personal opinions about different things and each time the answer was "it isn't about me, it about what is best for you."

And then they walk me through the process of making the right choices for me.

FNW · Guru

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
FNW wrote:
Since Obamacare, doctors are thinning the herds.
They have age quotas is my assumption. It isn't the Doctors' to do, it is the ACA rules I think.

Yep.

I've known too many people who go see their doctor, feeling great, no symptoms, only to be told they have stage 3 or 4 cancer, you won't live longer than 3 years, longer with chemo. They start chemo and are dead within 6 months. Thinning the herds. Cancer my ass.

huskerbb · Guru

Lindley wrote:
Sounds like he should seek a second opinion. That was a horrible thing to say to someone who just found out they had cancer. 63 isn't that old.

Sometimes the truth isn't pretty. The OP even says the options are not good.

TrudyML · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
If you are in the doctors office and it is an official visit, it has nothing to do with what the doctor would do if it were him.

The doctor should give the options and answer questions about the patient.

Did you not read the OP? It says surgery, chemo, etc were discussed. And, i live in a small town, so we know are doctors and they will give you personal opinions if you ask them for a personal opinion. Sheesh. They aren't robots. I appreciate doctors who do that and their doing so has helped me make decisions.

My ob/gyn was so upset over the skin cancer and he knew the cancer doc. He called the cancer dude. He was right in on everything saying what he would do. I liked that. He was looking out for me.

Then when I showed up with glasses he lost it. Knocking out the skin mass around my eye I lost sight. Whatever, I said. It's gone. Got glasses. He said as long as I am fine with it. I mean what can you do?

weltschmerz · Guru

FNW wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
FNW wrote:
Since Obamacare, doctors are thinning the herds.
They have age quotas is my assumption. It isn't the Doctors' to do, it is the ACA rules I think.
Yep.
I've known too many people who go see their doctor, feeling great, no symptoms, only to be told they have stage 3 or 4 cancer, you won't live longer than 3 years, longer with chemo. They start chemo and are dead within 6 months. Thinning the herds. Cancer my ass.

Yes, it's a huge oncology conspiracy.

Jeez!

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

My friend's father had prostate cancer for many years. He didn't treat it. He died of a heart attack.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I always ask my doctor two things. What are my options and what do you recommend. When I got my bone spur and plantar fascistic I asked for all the options. She gave them to me. Then I asked her for her advice. She gave it to me and then said she would do whatever I requested. I followed her advice.

ed11563 · Guru

Lexxy wrote:
My friend's father had prostate cancer for many years. He didn't treat it. He died of a heart attack.

That's pretty common.

ed11563 · Guru

weltschmerz wrote:
FNW wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
FNW wrote:
Since Obamacare, doctors are thinning the herds.
They have age quotas is my assumption. It isn't the Doctors' to do, it is the ACA rules I think.
Yep.
I've known too many people who go see their doctor, feeling great, no symptoms, only to be told they have stage 3 or 4 cancer, you won't live longer than 3 years, longer with chemo. They start chemo and are dead within 6 months. Thinning the herds. Cancer my ass.
Yes, it's a huge oncology conspiracy.
Jeez!

It's actually very difficult to conjure up a conspiracy among professional who are all (or most of them) out to line their own wallets.

Sure, some guys have highly aggressive tumors, and even chemo won't save them. Just like many of the women who get breast cancer in their 20's or early 30's, the most common form they get is VERY aggressive and usually metastasizes before it's even discovered.

I knew two young women, a coworker and my (then) dentlst's wife, who were diagnosed then died within 6 months.

Cheerios4606 · Guru

Read the first post and am skipping the rest of the thread to post. This guy needs a second opinion.

November I went in for emergency surgery and was found to have stage 4 colon cancer. Part of BOTH colon and rectum was removed as well as the main tumor, and three cancer spots were found on my liver as well as some lymph nodes. Besides the original tumor, I also had an ovary removed and some of those lymph nodes. I was found to have additional residual cancerous cells in my body cavity and was told that radiation AND chemo would probably be needed to take care of the cancer. I am currently using a poop bag and as you can imagine, it is the grossest thing I have ever had to deal with in my life.

HOWEVer...

After 4 chemo treatments, the spots on my liver are down by 44% and the remaining lymph nodes are officially considered to be cancer free. My doc is now under the impression that I have a good chance I wont need radiation, and that I could be good to go and cancer free after the allotted 12 chemo treatments. On top of that, the doc that did the original surgery and removed parts of my colon and rectum, he said that once I am done with chemo, he will be happy to put my plumbing back together and I will finally be able to use my anus in stead of my belly to poop.

Has all of this grossed you out? Yes? Good! But hopefully it also offers the fact that regardless of what the problem is... there is always room for hope! ALWAYS!

That guy needs a new team.