TOTALLY GEEKED!

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

S/O on abortion thread

Domestic Engineer · Guru

I could never make the decision to abort.

huskerbb · Guru

I don't see how we can make the call that this person does not have a right to live for this reason. Just because we might THINK that their "quality of life" is not what we would want? Just because it might be inconvenient for us both in terms of time and finances?

Sure, sometimes tough calls have to be made as to when to "pull the plug"--but that's not really what we are talking about here. Many people with Down's syndrome have gone on to live productive, fulfilling lives.

Honeys_Mom · Mod & Permanent Board Sweetheart

huskerbb wrote:
I don't see how we can make the call that this person does not have a right to live for this reason. Just because we might THINK that their "quality of life" is not what we would want? Just because it might be inconvenient for us both in terms of time and finances?

Sure, sometimes tough calls have to be made as to when to "pull the plug"--but that's not really what we are talking about here. Many people with Down's syndrome have gone on to live productive, fulfilling lives.

This is spot-on, if this thread is asking for what we believe in our hearts to be right. I could not abort because it is not my right to make the decision that my baby does not deserve to live.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

I've met families with children with a variety of birth defects or diseases. Some knew in advance and others didn't. All beautiful souls. I just can't imagine them not being born.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

I also know someone who aborted a baby that had spina bifida. The doctor told her if she kept baby it would probably ruin her marriage.

NAOW · Vette's SS

Southern_Belle wrote:
I've met families with children with a variety of birth defects or diseases. Some knew in advance and others didn't. All beautiful souls. I just can't imagine them not being born.

I agree.

I have a friend who recently lost her 5 week old son. He had Trisomy 18, and of the babies who make it full term, half are stillborn. They knew the odds, but just kept praying to have their baby to love for as long as possible. He survived birth and they had five incredible weeks to spend with their son and a lifetime of memories. I can't imagine giving that up.

Domestic Engineer · Guru

We were told by the NICU nurses that the majority of marriages of special needs children end in divorce. We were determined not to let that happen. Raising DS was challenging, I'd hate to think I had to do it day-to-day without DH.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I couldn't abort for any reason.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

If I was told my baby would be stillborn or die shortly after, I would probably abort, yes. Birth is a painful, messy process for everyone, baby included. If I would lose the baby anyways, why put it through so much pain?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I would not choose to bring a child into this world knowing his or her life was going to be nothing but pain.

flan

weltschmerz · Guru

Southern_Belle wrote:
How sick would baby have to be for you to abort it?
Spina Bifida?
Down's Syndrome?
Missing Limbs?
Conjoined?
Would not survive birth?
Other organ anomalies?
Reducing multiple fetuses?

It would have to be really really bad for me to abort. Such as would not survive birth or very short, painful life expectancy.

All of the above.

I'll be the one raising it and struggling and being broke and feeling like I'm at the end of my rope and having my marriage fall apart and worrying what will happen to them when I'm gone.

Me. Not husker or Lily or anyone who thinks they have beautiful souls. Me.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Mmm. I would not abort a downs baby, cojoined twins would really depend kn a lot of things, would not reduce a multiple.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

I don't know what spina bifida is.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Mmm. I would not abort a downs baby, cojoined twins would really depend kn a lot of things, would not reduce a multiple.

When I was going through fertility treatment the doc asked about reducing if I were to become pregnant with more than two or three babies. I told him no way.

weltschmerz · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
I don't know what spina bifida is.

It's an incomplete closing of the spine, or backbone.

It's nasty, with paralysis and incontinence and usually avoidable with enough folate in the mother's diet.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
I don't know what spina bifida is.

Incomplete closing of the backbone & membranes of the spinal cord.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I think out of those, I would only reduce a multiple if the reason for doing so was that one was in distress to the extent it would most likely cause me to lose them all. And that's still playing God, which I am against, but I would do it if my doctor said it could save the others.

Tangerine · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
If I was told my baby would be stillborn or die shortly after, I would probably abort, yes. Birth is a painful, messy process for everyone, baby included. If I would lose the baby anyways, why put it through so much pain?

I agree with you.

Domestic Engineer · Guru

I had two acquaintances become pregnant with quads.

First one had a selective reduction to give increase the odds of having two heathy babies. She had the two boys and one was very ill and died. The other is blind, mentally and physically disabled.

Second acquaintance said she was blessed with four babies and would not get rid of any of them. They were born 10 weeks premature with no major issues. The quads are heathy, happy, eight year olds.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

I would not reduce. Somehow, choosing would be harder.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Domestic Engineer wrote:
I had two acquaintances become pregnant with quads.

First one had a selective reduction to give increase the odds of having two heathy babies. She had the two boys and one was very ill and died. The other is blind, mentally and physically disabled.

Second acquaintance said she was blessed with four babies and would not get rid of any of them. They were born 10 weeks premature with no major issues. The quads are heathy, happy, eight year olds.

I would say first mother had a horrible time of it, but all things considered it is probably a good thing she only had two, and not four.

Second friend is damn lucky.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
I would not reduce. Somehow, choosing would be harder.

I can only imagine if the choice was already made for me.

My friends are actually going through this now. They are not reducing. They have twins - the boy is developing normally, but the placenta for the girl did not develop fully. They are going to deliver both at 30 weeks, which causes risks for both, and the chances of that girl surviving are not great. The early birth is going to put the boy at risk, too. Now, in their position, I would do the same thing they are doing, b/c their doctors think they can save them both. But, if this was earlier, and the doctor told me I'd have to reduce or likely lose them both - I'd reduce.

weltschmerz · Guru

Domestic Engineer wrote:
I had two acquaintances become pregnant with quads.

First one had a selective reduction to give increase the odds of having two heathy babies. She had the two boys and one was very ill and died. The other is blind, mentally and physically disabled.

Second acquaintance said she was blessed with four babies and would not get rid of any of them. They were born 10 weeks premature with no major issues. The quads are heathy, happy, eight year olds.

I had a friend who gave birth to preemies. They were both blind, couldn't swallow and had cerebral palsy.

Her doctor told her not to get pregnant again, but she took the chance.

Her marriage collapsed under the strain and she killed herself and the kids.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

weltschmerz wrote:
Domestic Engineer wrote:
I had two acquaintances become pregnant with quads.

First one had a selective reduction to give increase the odds of having two heathy babies. She had the two boys and one was very ill and died. The other is blind, mentally and physically disabled.

Second acquaintance said she was blessed with four babies and would not get rid of any of them. They were born 10 weeks premature with no major issues. The quads are heathy, happy, eight year olds.
I had a friend who gave birth to preemies. They were both blind, couldn't swallow and had cerebral palsy.
Her doctor told her not to get pregnant again, but she took the chance.
Her marriage collapsed under the strain and she killed herself and the kids.

And it didn't have to end that way...How sad.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Have a friend who gave birth to a beautiful little girl who happened to have spina bifada.

Angelica didn't walk till she was 3. Only walked for about 3 years and then lost the ability. Spent the rest of her life in a chair.

She went to school, played ball, went to dances, rode horses, loved camping and swimming and became a para-pro working in a kindergarten class.

She passed away at 25.

She lived more in her 25 years than most do in 80.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
Have a friend who gave birth to a beautiful little girl who happened to have spina bifada.

Angelica didn't walk till she was 3. Only walked for about 3 years and then lost the ability. Spent the rest of her life in a chair.

She went to school, played ball, went to dances, rode horses, loved camping and swimming and became a para-pro working in a kindergarten class.

She passed away at 25.

She lived more in her 25 years than most do in 80.

But that is NOT the case for every handicapped child. She is an exception.

flan

weltschmerz · Guru

flan327 wrote:
weltschmerz wrote:
Domestic Engineer wrote:
I had two acquaintances become pregnant with quads.

First one had a selective reduction to give increase the odds of having two heathy babies. She had the two boys and one was very ill and died. The other is blind, mentally and physically disabled.

Second acquaintance said she was blessed with four babies and would not get rid of any of them. They were born 10 weeks premature with no major issues. The quads are heathy, happy, eight year olds.
I had a friend who gave birth to preemies. They were both blind, couldn't swallow and had cerebral palsy.
Her doctor told her not to get pregnant again, but she took the chance.
Her marriage collapsed under the strain and she killed herself and the kids.
And it didn't have to end that way...How sad.
flan

I guess she didn't see any other way out. She piled everyone into the car in a closed garage and turned on the engine. Carbon monoxide poisoning.

chef · Guru

I would not abort my child.

Ohfour · Hooker

There is absolutely no reason that I would abort a child.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

I had an "abortion" at 7 months. That is the term for inducing labor before near full term. My child had a heart condition that pumped blood to one side but not the other. The good side developed the body, bones, skin, eyes, The Other side was where the organs developed; lungs, heart, bladder. Even though I had normal ultrasounds early on, I was not gaining weight and it was discovered because I had little amniotic fluid, which was due to very small bladders producing almost nothing. Had I continued with the pregnancy, I would eventually crush the baby if I bent over or such. They induced labor in hopes of saving him, although that would mean many organ transplants from babies that didn't make it even that far. He died before he was born. For 7 months along, he was a very normal size, his chest was concave due to the lack of lung development. It was termed an abortion which haunts me still when I hear people protesting against abortion. Just a personal thing.

BTW my doctor at the time was the leading pediatric Cardiologist doctor in the the country at the time, he worked at Yale New Haven Hospital.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

weltschmerz wrote:
Southern_Belle wrote:
How sick would baby have to be for you to abort it?
Spina Bifida?
Down's Syndrome?
Missing Limbs?
Conjoined?
Would not survive birth?
Other organ anomalies?
Reducing multiple fetuses?

It would have to be really really bad for me to abort. Such as would not survive birth or very short, painful life expectancy.
All of the above.
I'll be the one raising it and struggling and being broke and feeling like I'm at the end of my rope and having my marriage fall apart and worrying what will happen to them when I'm gone.
Me. Not husker or Lily or anyone who thinks they have beautiful souls. Me.

Same here. I would also abort for some reasons not mentioned here. Like danger to my ability to survive the pregnancy and be around to parent the children I already have...and a few other reasons

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

The child would have to be dead.

And then I'd rather be induced and deliver the child then have it ripped to pieces.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

BTW no need to respond to my story. I've written it here several times. Just know if you hear someone had an abortion, it does not always mean a decision to end a child's life just because they had defects. Especially when you hear late term abortion. Know what the details are before you judge.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
BTW no need to respond to my story. I've written it here several times. Just know if you hear someone had an abortion, it does not always mean a decision to end a child's life just because they had defects. Especially when you hear late term abortion. Know what the details are before you judge.

Or people could try not judging at all. What you (general you) choose for your own life and circumstances is only your business.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Mellow Momma wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
BTW no need to respond to my story. I've written it here several times. Just know if you hear someone had an abortion, it does not always mean a decision to end a child's life just because they had defects. Especially when you hear late term abortion. Know what the details are before you judge.
Or people could try not judging at all. What you (general you) choose for your own life and circumstances is only your business.

AMEN!

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
BTW no need to respond to my story. I've written it here several times. Just know if you hear someone had an abortion, it does not always mean a decision to end a child's life just because they had defects. Especially when you hear late term abortion. Know what the details are before you judge.
Or people could try not judging at all. What you (general you) choose for your own life and circumstances is only your business.

AMEN!
flan

Says the most judgmental person on this board...

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
I had an "abortion" at 7 months. That is the term for inducing labor before near full term. My child had a heart condition that pumped blood to one side but not the other. The good side developed the body, bones, skin, eyes, The Other side was where the organs developed; lungs, heart, bladder. Even though I had normal ultrasounds early on, I was not gaining weight and it was discovered because I had little amniotic fluid, which was due to very small bladders producing almost nothing. Had I continued with the pregnancy, I would eventually crush the baby if I bent over or such. They induced labor in hopes of saving him, although that would mean many organ transplants from babies that didn't make it even that far. He died before he was born. For 7 months along, he was a very normal size, his chest was concave due to the lack of lung development. It was termed an abortion which haunts me still when I hear people protesting against abortion. Just a personal thing.

BTW my doctor at the time was the leading pediatric Cardiologist doctor in the the country at the time, he worked at Yale New Haven Hospital.

Inducing labor is the treatment for fetal distress or a mom in distress. If the baby is in distress, then yes, they will deliver the baby via induced birth or a C-section with the hope of saving the baby. If the Mother is in distress as a result of the pregnancy, then again they will induce labor or do a C-section to save the mother and the baby then has to take it's chances. And, that is the only thing that can be done because if the mother is in distress, then the baby will soon be as well. So, that isn't what we are talking about when we say abortion. Abortion is intentionally ending the life of the child as the desired outcome, not trying to save a child that expires.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
I had an "abortion" at 7 months. That is the term for inducing labor before near full term. My child had a heart condition that pumped blood to one side but not the other. The good side developed the body, bones, skin, eyes, The Other side was where the organs developed; lungs, heart, bladder. Even though I had normal ultrasounds early on, I was not gaining weight and it was discovered because I had little amniotic fluid, which was due to very small bladders producing almost nothing. Had I continued with the pregnancy, I would eventually crush the baby if I bent over or such. They induced labor in hopes of saving him, although that would mean many organ transplants from babies that didn't make it even that far. He died before he was born. For 7 months along, he was a very normal size, his chest was concave due to the lack of lung development. It was termed an abortion which haunts me still when I hear people protesting against abortion. Just a personal thing.

BTW my doctor at the time was the leading pediatric Cardiologist doctor in the the country at the time, he worked at Yale New Haven Hospital.
Inducing labor is the treatment for fetal distress or a mom in distress. If the baby is in distress, then yes, they will deliver the baby via induced birth or a C-section with the hope of saving the baby. If the Mother is in distress as a result of the pregnancy, then again they will induce labor or do a C-section to save the mother and the baby then has to take it's chances. And, that is the only thing that can be done because if the mother is in distress, then the baby will soon be as well. So, that isn't what we are talking about when we say abortion. Abortion is intentionally ending the life of the child as the desired outcome, not trying to save a child that expires.

That is your definition, not the medical one.

chef · Guru

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
I had an "abortion" at 7 months. That is the term for inducing labor before near full term. My child had a heart condition that pumped blood to one side but not the other. The good side developed the body, bones, skin, eyes, The Other side was where the organs developed; lungs, heart, bladder. Even though I had normal ultrasounds early on, I was not gaining weight and it was discovered because I had little amniotic fluid, which was due to very small bladders producing almost nothing. Had I continued with the pregnancy, I would eventually crush the baby if I bent over or such. They induced labor in hopes of saving him, although that would mean many organ transplants from babies that didn't make it even that far. He died before he was born. For 7 months along, he was a very normal size, his chest was concave due to the lack of lung development. It was termed an abortion which haunts me still when I hear people protesting against abortion. Just a personal thing.

BTW my doctor at the time was the leading pediatric Cardiologist doctor in the the country at the time, he worked at Yale New Haven Hospital.
Inducing labor is the treatment for fetal distress or a mom in distress. If the baby is in distress, then yes, they will deliver the baby via induced birth or a C-section with the hope of saving the baby. If the Mother is in distress as a result of the pregnancy, then again they will induce labor or do a C-section to save the mother and the baby then has to take it's chances. And, that is the only thing that can be done because if the mother is in distress, then the baby will soon be as well. So, that isn't what we are talking about when we say abortion. Abortion is intentionally ending the life of the child as the desired outcome, not trying to save a child that expires.
That is your definition, not the medical one.

I wish it would be the medical one. The medical community needs to find a different term for what you went through, IKWTDS. I don't consider your experience to be an abortion.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Domestic Engineer wrote:
We were told by the NICU nurses that the majority of marriages of special needs children end in divorce. We were determined not to let that happen. Raising DS was challenging, I'd hate to think I had to do it day-to-day without DH.

Unfortunately, this is a very true statistic. A huge amount of them end in divorce. Having a special needs child puts a strain on a marriage no one but another couple with a special needs child can understand.

huskerbb · Guru

weltschmerz wrote:
Domestic Engineer wrote:
I had two acquaintances become pregnant with quads.

First one had a selective reduction to give increase the odds of having two heathy babies. She had the two boys and one was very ill and died. The other is blind, mentally and physically disabled.

Second acquaintance said she was blessed with four babies and would not get rid of any of them. They were born 10 weeks premature with no major issues. The quads are heathy, happy, eight year olds.
I had a friend who gave birth to preemies. They were both blind, couldn't swallow and had cerebral palsy.
Her doctor told her not to get pregnant again, but she took the chance.
Her marriage collapsed under the strain and she killed herself and the kids.

So....she ignored her doctor's advice and then it was somehow the kids' fault in the end?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Domestic Engineer wrote:
We were told by the NICU nurses that the majority of marriages of special needs children end in divorce. We were determined not to let that happen. Raising DS was challenging, I'd hate to think I had to do it day-to-day without DH.
Unfortunately, this is a very true statistic. A huge amount of them end in divorce. Having a special needs child puts a strain on a marriage no one but another couple with a special needs child can understand.

And the strain it puts on the siblings is often overlooked.

flan

FNW · Guru

My body aborted a son whose heartbeat was weak. It was not my decision, it was God's.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Domestic Engineer wrote:
We were told by the NICU nurses that the majority of marriages of special needs children end in divorce. We were determined not to let that happen. Raising DS was challenging, I'd hate to think I had to do it day-to-day without DH.
Unfortunately, this is a very true statistic. A huge amount of them end in divorce. Having a special needs child puts a strain on a marriage no one but another couple with a special needs child can understand.

That is true. And, a good point. Very hard to do alone, no question.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

weltschmerz wrote:
Domestic Engineer wrote:
I had two acquaintances become pregnant with quads.

First one had a selective reduction to give increase the odds of having two heathy babies. She had the two boys and one was very ill and died. The other is blind, mentally and physically disabled.

Second acquaintance said she was blessed with four babies and would not get rid of any of them. They were born 10 weeks premature with no major issues. The quads are heathy, happy, eight year olds.
I had a friend who gave birth to preemies. They were both blind, couldn't swallow and had cerebral palsy.
Her doctor told her not to get pregnant again, but she took the chance.
Her marriage collapsed under the strain and she killed herself and the kids.

OMG that is tragic and very sad. Were there no resources to help her care for the children? I mean, there are times you have to put them in skilled care. Not everyone can be cared for at home.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well, i dont think doctors should be implanting more embryos than you intend to carry. No i would not want to be put in a position to do selective reduction. And, i know it is a costly undertaking but i would rather go ahead with 2 and then it is God's will, not mine to make that decision.

Domestic Engineer · Guru

First acquaintance did have 4 embryos implanted not expecting them to all take. Second acquaintance was given the lowest dose of a fertility drug. She only took it one cycle and it worked.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I can think of a dozen reasons that would cause me to have an abortion. But it's the dozens of reasons I can't even imagine that make me pro-choice.

weltschmerz · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
There is absolutely no reason that I would abort a child.

Isn't it great that you could make that decision FOR YOU, and I can make a different decision FOR ME?