TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

The big difference between the god of radical Islam and the God of Christianity

Tinydancer · Guru

Spot on LL.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

The KEY word here being RADICAL...

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

Except even the non-radicalized Muslims follow the same writings.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Well, I've been researching the Quran a bit. And to be honest, it is worrisome and open to a LOT of interpretation. I can easily see where the radicals get their directives.

And one thing is certain, while peaceful Muslims may say the Quran does not order them to kill, it does not tell them NOT to kill unless the people convert to Islam.

One of the verses, Allah does forbid them from becoming allies with those they war with. So peace is impossible.

"Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. Allah only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion - [forbids] that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers."

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Thanks for the clarification, LL.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I will say that there are OT passages that are no longer followed by mainstream Christians: strict dietary laws, for example.

Even in the NT, certain sections can be glossed over.

Do you think it's the same for the average Muslim, LL?

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
I will say that there are OT passages that are no longer followed by mainstream Christians: strict dietary laws, for example.

Even in the NT, certain sections can be glossed over.

Do you think it's the same for the average Muslim, LL?

flan

There's a reason those OT passages are no longer followed. They were based on remaining "clean" and punishment for sins. When Christ died on the cross, he died for our sins, and everything was cleansed with his blood. Jesus lifted dietary restrictions in the New Testament -

The Lord Jesus Christ totally removed all dietary prohibitions from his followers.

Read what he says in Mark 7:14-19, "Then Jesus called to the crowd to come and hear. "All of you listen," he said, "and try to understand. You are not defiled by what you eat; you are defiled by what you say and do!" Then Jesus went into a house to get away from the crowds, and his disciples asked him what he meant by the statement he had made. "Don't you understand either?" he asked. "Can't you see that what you eat won't defile you? Food doesn't come in contact with your heart, but only passes through the stomach and then comes out again." (By saying this, he showed that every kind of food is acceptable.)" - New Living Translation.

Note that the text in brackets is Mark's comment on what Jesus said. So, we don't follow the dietary laws in Leviticus because Jesus fulfilled the whole law and told us specifically that all dietary restrictions, by his authority, have been lifted.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I would also say that because the Quran doesn't actually command people NOT to kill, that may be the reason that Islam as a whole does not condemn the radicals. To them, there does not appear to be Muslim law being broken.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

That makes sense. Thanks.

flan

Cheerios4606 · Guru

A good read http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/jesus-muhammad.aspx

Comparing Islam and Christianity

Muhammad...

Jesus...

Said Allah does not love
those who reject Islam.
(Quran 30:45, 3:32, 22:38)

Said God loves everyone.
(John 3:16)

"I have been commanded to fight
against people till they testify that there
is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad
is the messenger of Allah"
(Muslim 1:33)

"He who lives by the sword
will die by the sword."
(Matthew 26:52)

Stoned women for adultery.
(Muslim 4206)

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
(John 8:7)

Permitted stealing from unbelievers.
(Bukhari 44:668, Ibn Ishaq 764)

"Thou shalt not steal."
(Matthew 19:18)

Permitted lying.
(Sahih Muslim 6303, Bukhari 49:857)

"Thou shalt not bear false witness."
(Matthew 19:18)

Owned and traded slaves.
(Sahih Muslim 3901)

Neither owned nor traded slaves.

Beheaded 800 Jewish men and boys.
(Abu Dawud 4390)

Beheaded no one.

Murdered those who insulted him.
(Bukhari 56:369, 4:241)

Preached forgiveness.
(Matthew 18:21-22, 5:38)

"If then anyone transgresses
the prohibition against you,
Transgress ye likewise against him"
(Quran 2:194)

"If someone strikes you on the right
cheek, turn to him the other also."
(Matthew 5:39)

Jihad in the way of Allah elevates one's position in Paradise by a hundred fold.
(Muslim 4645)

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for
they will be called Sons of God"
(Matthew 5:9)

Married 13 wives and kept sex slaves.
(Bukhari 5:268, Quran 33:50)

Was celibate.

Slept with a 9-year-old child.
(Sahih Muslim 3309, Bukhari 58:236)

Did not have sex with children.

Ordered the murder of women.
(Ibn Ishaq 819, 995)

Never harmed a woman.

"O you who believe! Fight those of the
unbelievers who are near to you
and let them find in you hardness."
(Quran 9:123)

"Blessed are the meek, for
they shall inherit the earth."
(Matthew 5:5)

Ordered 65 military campaigns
and raids in his last 10 years.
(Ibn Ishaq )

Ordered no military campaigns, nor
offered any approval of war or violence.

Killed captives taken in battle.
(Ibn Ishaq 451)

Never took captives.
Never killed anyone.

Encouraged his men to rape enslaved women.
(Abu Dawood 2150, Quran 4:24)

Never encouraged rape.
Never enslaved women.

Demanded captured slaves and
a fifth of all other loot taken in war.
(Quran 8:41)

"The Son of Man came not
to be served, but to serve."
(Matthew 20:28)

Was never tortured, but tortured others.
(Muslim 4131, Ibn Ishaq 436, 595, 734, 764)

Suffered torture, but never tortured anyone.

"And fight them until there is no more persecution and religion is only for Allah"
(Quran 8:39)

"Love your enemies and pray
for those who persecute you"
(Matthew 5:44)

Blessed the brutal murder of a half-blind man
(al-Tabari 1440)

Healed a blind man
(Mark 8:28)

Ordered a slave to build the very pulpit
from which he preached Islam.
(Bukhari 47:743)

Washed his disciples feet.
(John 13:5)

What are the Greatest Commandments?
"Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause"
(Muslim 1:149)

What are the Greatest Commandments?
"Love God and love thy neighbor as thyself."
(Matthew 22:34-40)

Demanded the protection of armed bodyguards, even in a house of worship
(Quran 4:102)

Chastised anyone attempting
to defend him with force.
(John 18:10-12)

Died fat and wealthy from what was
taken from others in war or
demanded from others in tribute.

Demanded nothing for himself.
Died without possessions.

Advocated crucifying others.
(Quran 5:33, Muslim 16:4131)

Was crucified himself.

According to his followers:
Had others give their lives for him.
(Sahih Muslim 4413)

According to his followers:
Gave his life for others.
(John 18:11 and elsewhere)

-- Edited by Cheerios4606 on Wednesday 30th of March 2016 03:43:24 PM

Cheerios4606 · Guru

and....

Differences Between
Early Muslims and Christians

Muhammad's Companions...

Jesus's Disciples...

Lived as warriors.

Lived like harmless hippies.

Slew and persecuted religious minorities.

Were slain and persecuted
as a religious minority.

Emphasis on Jihad (the way of Muhammad)

"He who fights that Allah's word should
be superior fights in Allah's cause"
(Bukhari 53:355)

Emphasis on Evangelism (the way of Jesus)

"Go ye into all the world and preach
the gospel to every creature"
(Matthew 15:16)

Attacked and conquered the populations in
parts of 28 modern countries in just the first
three decades following Muhammad's death.

Did not resort to violence of any sort,
despite tremendous persecution.

Declared holy war on the people of five
major world religions in just the first
100 years following Muhammad's death.

Went centuries without declaring 'holy war'.

Plundered and lived off the wealth of others.

Gave away their possessions to those in need.
(Acts 2:44-45)

Captured and enslaved non-Muslim people.

Considered themselves to be slaves of others.

Waged war to keep members from leaving
the religion. Put apostates to death.

No record of aggression toward apostates.

Muhammad's own family members quickly
fell into armed warfare against each other.

Jesus' disciples never resorted to violence
against one another (or anyone else).

First 240 Years:
11 of the first 32 caliphs were
murdered by fellow Muslims.

First 240 Years:
14 of the first 25 popes were martyred by
pagans (none by fellow Christians).

Caliphs were polygamous and maintained harems of hundreds of captured sex slaves.

Popes were expected to be celibate.

Islamic mosques sustained by taxes forced from subjugated non-Muslims (the jizya).

Christian churches sustained
by voluntary tithes from Christians.

-- Edited by Cheerios4606 on Wednesday 30th of March 2016 03:43:08 PM

Cheerios4606 · Guru

and....

Differences Between
Islamic Teaching and Christianity

The Quran

The Bible

External sources (the Hadith and Sira) necessary for translating the Quran

Historical context contained
within the text of the Bible

Must know Arabic in order to "fully understand" the Quran (according to Muslim apologists)

Universal. Can be translated into other languages without excessive commentary.

Chronological progression of the
Quran is from peace to violence.

Chronological progression of the
Bible is from violence to peace.

The words 'torture' and 'punishment' appear six
times more often in the Quran than in the New Testament.

The word 'love' appears five times more often in the New Testament than than in the Quran,

Contains not a single original moral value.

The 'Sermon on the Mount' and others.

Suffering is an excuse for violent revenge
and establishment of Islam by force

"And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
(Quran 2:191)

Suffering builds character

"We also rejoice in our sufferings,
because we know that suffering
produces perseverance; perseverance,
character; and character, hope"
(Romans 5:4)

Emphasis on this World

"And Allah has made you heirs to their land
and their dwellings and their property"
(Quran 33:27)

Emphasis on the Next

"Mine is not a kingdom of this world"
(John 18:36, see also Luke 14:33)

Kill, convert or subjugate Christians and Jews.
(Quran 9:29)

Share one's faith with gentleness and respect.
(1 Peter 3:15)

Martyrs as Killers

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain"
(Quran 9:111)

Martyrs as Martyrs

"As it is written, For thy sake we are
killed all the day long; we are
counted as sheep for the slaughter"
(Romans 8:36)

Killing Apostates

"They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"
(Quran 4:89, also Bukhari 52:260, 83:37...)

Letting God Judge Apostates

"For we know Him that has said,
'Vengeance belongs unto me, I will
recompense,' says the Lord. And again,
'The Lord shall judge his people'"
(Hebrews 10:25-30)

Punishment

"Let not compassion move you
from carrying out God's law..."
(Quran 24:2)

Mercy

"Love is patient. Love is kind...
It keeps no record of wrongs"
(1 Corinthians 13:4-5)

Charity and Non-Believers

Mercy toward fellow Muslims - ruthlessness toward unbelievers. Muslims are warned not to befriend those outside the faith. They must even ensure that their charity tithe (zakat)
stays within their own identity group.
(Quran 48:29, 3:28, Sharia)

Charity and Non-Believers

Christians are specifically told that even
those who hate them are entitled to
kindness and charity. They should be loved
and cared for as surely as any fellow believer.
(Mark 10:25-37)

The Qur'an explicitly instructs
men to beat disobedient wives.
(Quran 4:34, Sahih Muslim 2127)

"Husbands, love your wives and
do not be harsh with them."
(No permission to beat women)
(Colossians 3:19)

Explicitly allows Muslim men to rape their female slaves, even those already married.
(Quran 4:24, 70:29-30, 23:5-6...)

Tells masters and slaves to serve
each other as if serving God.
(Ephesians 6:7-9)

Muhammad is the messenger
of Allah. And those who are with him
are ruthless to the unbelievers"
(Quran 48:29)

"Do good to them that hate you"
(Luke 6:27)

Allah wills those that stray and are lost
(Quran 16:93)

God wants all people saved
(1 Timothy 2:4)

Warns Against Questioning Faith.
(Quran 5:101-102)

Welcomes Intellectual Challenge.
(1 Peter 3:15)

Violence as Virtue

"Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye
dislike it. But it is possible that ye
dislike a thing which is good for you, and
that ye love a thing which is bad for you.
But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
(Quran 2:216)

Violence as Sin

"Do not take revenge, my friends, but
leave room for God's wrath, for it is written:
'It is mine to avenge; I will repay,' says the Lord. On the contrary: 'If your enemy
is hungry, feed him... '"
(Romans 12:19-20)

Hell for unbelief.
Good deeds count for naught
(Quran 18:102-107)

Hell for bad deeds and the
failure to do what is right
(Romans 2:6-8, Matthew 16:27, Matthew 25:41-45)

Judging

"Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them..."
(Quran 9:73)

Judge Not

"For when you pass judgment on another person, you condemn yourself..."
(Romans 2:1)

Taking wealth from others

"Allah promiseth you much
booty that ye will capture..."
(Quran 48:20)

Working for and giving wealth to others

"The thief must no longer steal but must
work hard and do what is good with his
own hands, so that he might have
something to give to the needy."
(Ephesians 4:28)

Calls down Allah's curse on Christians
and those of other religions.
(Quran 9:30)

Calls down God's blessing on
those who curse Christians.
(Matthew 5:44)

Arrogance & Privilege

"Ye are the best of peoples,
evolved for mankind"
(Quran 3:110)

Humility & Servitude

"If anyone wants to be first, he must make himself last of all and servant of all."
(Mark 9:35)

"O you who believe! do not take My
enemy and your enemy for friends:
Would you offer them love while they deny what has come to you of the truth?
(Quran 60:1)

"Love your enemies..."
(Luke 6:27)

-- Edited by Cheerios4606 on Wednesday 30th of March 2016 03:42:50 PM

Cheerios4606 · Guru

and finally...

Differences Between the Islamic
and Christian-Based Worlds

Muslim Legacy

Christian Legacy

Countries that Muslims want to escape from.

Countries that Muslims want to escape to.

Madrassahs that indoctrinate Muslim
children with bigotry and terror.

Mission schools that teach reading and
writing to Christians and Muslims alike.

Suicide bombings for Allah

No suicide bombings for Jesus

International terror organizations.

International charities.

No formal charities for non-Muslims.

Leading provider of disaster relief to Muslims.

Murder of aid workers.

Supply of aid workers.

Christians in jail for apostasy or blasphemy.

Religious freedom.

Modern-day slavery in the name of Islam.

Abolition in the name of Christianity.

Muslim clerics who engage
in or condone terrorism.

Christian clerics murdered each year by
terror groups rife with Muslim clerics.

Daily religious violence against Hindus.

None.

Daily religious violence against Jews.

None.

Daily religious violence against Buddhists.

None.

Daily religious violence against Muslims.

None.

Ritual slitting of animals' throats

Ending of animal sacrifice

Religion

Technology & Medicine

Censorship

Freedom of speech

Intolerance for criticism of Islam.

Tolerance for religious dissent.

Restricting other religions from preaching faith.

Allowing all religions the
same right to evangelize.

Conversions allowed to Islam only.

Freedom of conscience.

Converts to Christianity beheaded.

No dead converts to Islam.

Most famous Muslim: Osama bin Laden.

Most famous Christian: The Pope.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Islam is a Conquest Philosophy.

WYSIWYG · Guru

I don't think there's different Gods. The Christian God and the Islamic God are one in the same. Both religions follow the God of Abraham (That's why it's called included in the list of the "Abrahamic religions"). The difference to me is the men that wrote of him.

When the men in Nicaea put the Bible together, they did so with their biases and beliefs in what what good and right.

When Mohamed wrote the Qur'an, he did so with his biases and beliefs in what was good and right.

It's just my opinion, but neither capture the true essence of God. With it's message of mostly love, I believe the Bible to be closer to God's intent for us than the Qur'an, but they are still both books written and influenced by men.

WYSIWYG · Guru

Cheerios, That's an interesting set of graphic panels. There are a few errors or misdirections on Christian side of it though.

I agree that Jesus didn't own slaves, but he didn't say anything against the practice either, and while he didn't say anything for it, he did say that he was not here to take away the old laws, so they would basically remain in force except where he specifically said otherwise (like when he proclaimed all foods "clean", he took away the prohibition against "unclean" food).

Christian churches sustained by voluntary tithes from Christians: That's a somewhat modern thing though, isn't it? Back in ancient times, The church was one of the "Taxing Authorities". You supported the church or you were punished by the church.

Hell for bad deeds and the failure to do what is right: According to most Christian denominations, Hell is also for those the do not believe (whether they have done good or not, just like Islam), not just for bad deeds or failure to do right.

Religious freedom: That depends on how you define "freedom". There are a lot of those of us that are Christians that would like nothing better than to have Christian based rules and laws. Not all of us, maybe not even a majority, but a lot.

Technology & Medicine: There are some denominations of Christians that eschew both of these, a large portion of Anti-Vaxers among them.

I have no argument against what they say about Islam though, I haven't even read the Qur'an, much less studied it, as I have the Bible. I believe them to be fairly accurate (and of evil intent).

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
I don't think there's different Gods. The Christian God and the Islamic God are one in the same. Both religions follow the God of Abraham (That's why it's called included in the list of the "Abrahamic religions"). The difference to me is the men that wrote of him.

When the men in Nicaea put the Bible together, they did so with their biases and beliefs in what what good and right.

When Mohamed wrote the Qur'an, he did so with his biases and beliefs in what was good and right.

It's just my opinion, but neither capture the true essence of God. With it's message of mostly love, I believe the Bible to be closer to God's intent for us than the Qur'an, but they are still both books written and influenced by men.

Islam is "mostly love"? Honor killing your wife and children? Killing and bombing airports, planes, suicide bombers who are your own children? Uh huh? Islam is a viscious and horrible religion. It is a religion of Destruction. The cultures that live under Islam have done very little in the advancement of mankind. The Jewish culture has resulted in more Nobel prize winners for medicine and science far surpassing Muslim cultures which do NOTHING to but destroy what is good. They do not engage in good but in evil. They simply seek to destroy what is good. If some of you wish to pretend otherwise, then I guess you may to our peril.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
I don't think there's different Gods. The Christian God and the Islamic God are one in the same. Both religions follow the God of Abraham (That's why it's called included in the list of the "Abrahamic religions"). The difference to me is the men that wrote of him.

When the men in Nicaea put the Bible together, they did so with their biases and beliefs in what what good and right.

When Mohamed wrote the Qur'an, he did so with his biases and beliefs in what was good and right.

It's just my opinion, but neither capture the true essence of God. With it's message of mostly love, I believe the Bible to be closer to God's intent for us than the Qur'an, but they are still both books written and influenced by men.
Islam is "mostly love"? Honor killing your wife and children? Killing and bombing airports, planes, suicide bombers who are your own children? Uh huh? Islam is a viscious and horrible religion. It is a religion of Destruction. The cultures that live under Islam have done very little in the advancement of mankind. The Jewish culture has resulted in more Nobel prize winners for medicine and science far surpassing Muslim cultures which do NOTHING to but destroy what is good. They do not engage in good but in evil. They simply seek to destroy what is good. If some of you wish to pretend otherwise, then I guess you may to our peril.

I choose to believe that the majority of Muslims live peaceful lives, go to work, raise children...just like "we" do.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

You can believe what ever you want. The evidence is in their fruits. Muslim cultures have done very little in the advancement of mankind. The facts are the facts which you supposedly look at.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
You can believe what ever you want. The evidence is in their fruits. Muslim cultures have done very little in the advancement of mankind. The facts are the facts which you supposedly look at.

And that is a different statement from this:

"Islam is a vicious and horrible religion."

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Honor killing your children and slicing off your wife's nose makes this a viscious and horrible religion. So, yes, it is.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Yes, of course, there is a radical component to Islam. I choose to focus on the people that live in my community, that I help at work.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Yes, of course, there is a radical component to Islam. I choose to focus on the people that live in my community, that I help at work.

flan

So did those people in San Bernadino.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

And honor killings are common - not rare.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Yes, of course, there is a radical component to Islam. I choose to focus on the people that live in my community, that I help at work.

flan
So did those people in San Bernadino.

Yes, that's one exception.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Now, do i think that most people just want to live day to day and be left alone? Yes, i do. However, these countries need to rise up and overthrow and fight back against this. And, Christianity is the only thing that can defeat Islam. Christianity is responsible for the westernized world and culture that has allowed women to thrive. Women have no rights in the muslim world. And, the Dems wanna blah blah with their 'war on women" nonsense while totally ignoring the real war on women in the world which is the domination of women through islam. And, make no mistake , that philosophy is highly appealing to men who want to control women.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

There are an average of 25 honor killings (known) in the U.S. each year.

- In 2012, police arrested the mother, father and sister of 19-year-old Aiya Altameemi in Phoenix after they allegedly beat, restrained and burned her for reportedly declining an arranged marriage with an older man and talking to another boy.

- In 2009, Aasiya Hassan was beheaded by her husband, Muzzammil Hassan, at the Buffalo, N.Y., Muslim TV station where they worked for allegedly requesting a divorce. The Pakistani-born killer defended himself at trial, never denied his guilt and was convicted in 2011. A few months before Hassan was killed, Sandeela Kanwal was strangled by her father outside Atlanta for failing to “be true to her religion” because she wanted to leave an arranged marriage.

- In the 2008 case in Irving, Yasser Said, a cab driver from Egypt, is suspected of shooting his two daughters, Amina, 18, and Sarah Said, 17, in the back of his taxi because they were dating non-Muslim boys and embracing Western culture. Said has been a fugitive ever since.

- In 2007, an Illinois man – Subhash Chander – set an apartment fire that killed his pregnant 22-year-old daughter, son-in-law and 3-year-old grandson because he disapproved of the marriage.

- And in one of the earliest widely reported cases of honor killing in the U.S., 16-year-old Palestina Isa, of St. Louis, was murdered in 1989 by her father Zein Isa, who was helped by her mother. Zein Isa was angry that his daughter had gotten a job and was dating an African-American boy. Both parents were convicted of murder and sentenced to death. Zein Isa died on death row in 1997, while his wife's sentence was commuted to life in prison without parole.

Honor violence is an even bigger problem in other parts of the Western world, with a reported 11,000 cases of honor violence recorded in the United Kingdom in the last five years while incidents also have been documented in Canada, Germany, France and Sweden.

Full article - http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/10/honor-killing-in-us-justice-department-mulls-guidelines-as-grim-toll-rises.html

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Now, do i think that most people just want to live day to day and be left alone? Yes, i do. However, these countries need to rise up and overthrow and fight back against this. And, Christianity is the only thing that can defeat Islam. Christianity is responsible for the westernized world and culture that has allowed women to thrive. Women have no rights in the muslim world. And, the Dems wanna blah blah with their 'war on women" nonsense while totally ignoring the real war on women in the world which is the domination of women through islam. And, make no mistake , that philosophy is highly appealing to men who want to control women.

But the problem is that this "silent majority" doesn't FULLY disagree with the radicals. Their methods? Yes. Their reasoning? No.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Yes, of course, there is a radical component to Islam. I choose to focus on the people that live in my community, that I help at work.

flan
So did those people in San Bernadino.
Yes, that's one exception.
flan

No, it's not. The bombings and killings that have been going on are done by Muslims. Pretend all you want. That's like saying we should never have gone to war with Germany or Japan cuz it isn't "all Germans or ALL the Japanese", whatever. We are figthing a Conquest Ideology. And, if you are part of that, then you are part of the problem.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Yes, of course, there is a radical component to Islam. I choose to focus on the people that live in my community, that I help at work.

flan
So did those people in San Bernadino.
Yes, that's one exception.
flan
No, it's not. The bombings and killings that have been going on are done by Muslims. Pretend all you want. That's like saying we should never have gone to war with Germany or Japan cuz it isn't "all Germans or ALL the Japanese", whatever. We are figthing a Conquest Ideology. And, if you are part of that, then you are part of the problem.

I was referring to a local level in my post.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

WYSIWYG wrote:
Cheerios, That's an interesting set of graphic panels. There are a few errors or misdirections on Christian side of it though.

1. I agree that Jesus didn't own slaves, but he didn't say anything against the practice either, and while he didn't say anything for it, he did say that he was not here to take away the old laws, so they would basically remain in force except where he specifically said otherwise (like when he proclaimed all foods "clean", he took away the prohibition against "unclean" food).

2. Christian churches sustained by voluntary tithes from Christians: That's a somewhat modern thing though, isn't it? Back in ancient times, The church was one of the "Taxing Authorities". You supported the church or you were punished by the church.

3. Hell for bad deeds and the failure to do what is right: According to most Christian denominations, Hell is also for those the do not believe (whether they have done good or not, just like Islam), not just for bad deeds or failure to do right.

4. Religious freedom: That depends on how you define "freedom". There are a lot of those of us that are Christians that would like nothing better than to have Christian based rules and laws. Not all of us, maybe not even a majority, but a lot.

5. Technology & Medicine: There are some denominations of Christians that eschew both of these, a large portion of Anti-Vaxers among them.

I have no argument against what they say about Islam though, I haven't even read the Qur'an, much less studied it, as I have the Bible. I believe them to be fairly accurate (and of evil intent).

1. First, we have to look at the teachings of Jesus. Jesus never said owning a slave was bad or wrong. But what he did say was how to treat them and that they are not lower than the masters and even the masters were under and belonged to a higher master.

It says in the scriptures that the servant is above the master. That the master should be just with his servants.

The Bible also uses the analogy of servant and master when talking about the body of Christ and their following of God.

We ARE to SERVE God.

2. No. Tithing is not "modern". Jesus addressed the issue himself. He said "don't neglect tithing". Tithing is about being obedient as much as anything. It doesn't matter if your 10% is in actual money or in service or donating to churches food bank. It's about giving at least 10% of your earned resources to the running of the church. Remember the woman who gave out of need vs. the men who gave out of excess? We are to give out of our need to serve God.

3. That's right. "Depart from me, I never knew you" is not about never being introduced. It is about not excepting Jesus as your Savior. We are born in sin and of sin. Once we become of the understanding of what it means to not be saved, we are accountable for our sin. And sin can not and will not enter the presence of God. So yes. If your name is not in the Lambs Book of Life, you will go to Hell.

4. 99% of our laws ARE Christian based. The 10 commandments are the basis of our laws and rules.

5. There is no where in the Bible that says we can not seek medical treatment or use modern technology. What it does say about medicine, about everything, is to "first, seek ye the Kingdom of God", which means pray first. Trust God will guide you to the right doctors, treatment decisions. Everything.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Islam is a FALSE religion. Period.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Islam is a FALSE religion. Period.

Everything BUT Christianity is a false religion to you.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Islam is a FALSE religion. Period.
Everything BUT Christianity is a false religion to you.
flan

Well, of course.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Islam is a FALSE religion. Period.
Everything BUT Christianity is a false religion to you.
flan
Well, of course.

And believers of other religions feel the same. THEIRS is the only true way.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Except they are wrong.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Except they are wrong.

They think YOU are wrong. See how that works? evileye

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

But they are.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Except they are wrong.
They think YOU are wrong. See how that works?
flan

No, it actually doesn't work that way. You can sincerely believe that gravity doesn't apply for you and jump off a tall building. Truth is truth. Your believing or unbelieving doesn't change what is true. God is the God of ALL.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Except they are wrong.
They think YOU are wrong. See how that works?
flan

But we can't both be right. And comparing the two - which God would you prefer to worship?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Except they are wrong.
They think YOU are wrong. See how that works?
flan
But we can't both be right. And comparing the two - which God would you prefer to worship?

Neither, and that is my honest answer.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Except they are wrong.
They think YOU are wrong. See how that works?
flan
No, it actually doesn't work that way. You can sincerely believe that gravity doesn't apply for you and jump off a tall building. Truth is truth. Your believing or unbelieving doesn't change what is true. God is the God of ALL.

And how many times have we told you (general you): GRAVITY can be proven.

flan

huskerbb · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
I don't think there's different Gods. The Christian God and the Islamic God are one in the same. Both religions follow the God of Abraham (That's why it's called included in the list of the "Abrahamic religions"). The difference to me is the men that wrote of him.

When the men in Nicaea put the Bible together, they did so with their biases and beliefs in what what good and right.

When Mohamed wrote the Qur'an, he did so with his biases and beliefs in what was good and right.

It's just my opinion, but neither capture the true essence of God. With it's message of mostly love, I believe the Bible to be closer to God's intent for us than the Qur'an, but they are still both books written and influenced by men.

BS. Christians worship the Trinity. Islam has no such concept.

Tinydancer · Guru

WYSIWYG I'm not sure why you call yourself a Christian when you don't even believe the Bible is Gods word. It must be so nice to pick and choose which parts you're going to follow. Talk about creating your own religion.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Except they are wrong.
They think YOU are wrong. See how that works?
flan
No, it actually doesn't work that way. You can sincerely believe that gravity doesn't apply for you and jump off a tall building. Truth is truth. Your believing or unbelieving doesn't change what is true. God is the God of ALL.
And how many times have we told you (general you): GRAVITY can be proven.
flan

So can God. You just don't accept the proof. Just like those people don't accept the proof of gravity. Denial doesn't mean it isn't true.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Except they are wrong.
They think YOU are wrong. See how that works?
flan
But we can't both be right. And comparing the two - which God would you prefer to worship?
Neither, and that is my honest answer.
flan

That's really sad.

WYSIWYG · Guru

Islam is "mostly love"? Honor killing your wife and children? Killing and bombing airports, planes, suicide bombers who are your own children? Uh huh? Islam is a viscious and horrible religion. It is a religion of Destruction. The cultures that live under Islam have done very little in the advancement of mankind. The Jewish culture has resulted in more Nobel prize winners for medicine and science far surpassing Muslim cultures which do NOTHING to but destroy what is good. They do not engage in good but in evil. They simply seek to destroy what is good. If some of you wish to pretend otherwise, then I guess you may to our peril.
- Lady Gaga Snerd

_____________________________________

Did you miss the period after "God" intentionally or by accident? Here's what I wrote again, see if you can find the period after the word "God" (I'll change it to [PERIOD] so it stands out better).

"
It's just my opinion, but neither capture the true essence of God[PERIOD] With it's message of mostly love, I believe the Bible to be closer to God's intent for us than the Qur'an, but they are still both books written and influenced by men.
"

I was expressing that the Bible is closer to God's message. I guess you missed that point in your rush to judgement.

WYSIWYG · Guru

1. First, we have to look at the teachings of Jesus. Jesus never said owning a slave was bad or wrong. But what he did say was how to treat them and that they are not lower than the masters and even the masters were under and belonged to a higher master.

It says in the scriptures that the servant is above the master. That the master should be just with his servants.

The Bible also uses the analogy of servant and master when talking about the body of Christ and their following of God.

We ARE to SERVE God.

2. No. Tithing is not "modern". Jesus addressed the issue himself. He said "don't neglect tithing". Tithing is about being obedient as much as anything. It doesn't matter if your 10% is in actual money or in service or donating to churches food bank. It's about giving at least 10% of your earned resources to the running of the church. Remember the woman who gave out of need vs. the men who gave out of excess? We are to give out of our need to serve God.

3. That's right. "Depart from me, I never knew you" is not about never being introduced. It is about not excepting Jesus as your Savior. We are born in sin and of sin. Once we become of the understanding of what it means to not be saved, we are accountable for our sin. And sin can not and will not enter the presence of God. So yes. If your name is not in the Lambs Book of Life, you will go to Hell.

4. 99% of our laws ARE Christian based. The 10 commandments are the basis of our laws and rules.

5. There is no where in the Bible that says we can not seek medical treatment or use modern technology. What it does say about medicine, about everything, is to "first, seek ye the Kingdom of God", which means pray first. Trust God will guide you to the right doctors, treatment decisions. Everything.
- lilyofcourse

_________________________________________

Look at the header of the panels that each of those points I mentioned comes from.

1 Fell under "Comparing Islam and Christianity" and was comparing Mohamed to Jesus, and it was trying to show that Jesus was anti-slave, when that's patently unprovable based on scripture, as well as likely untrue.

2 Was under "Differences Between Early Muslims and Christians". I wasn't saying anything about what Jesus said. It was about his disciples but the "early Christians" aren't limited to just his disciples. I extrapolated that to the early church, when the religion itself was growing and belief in the Roman gods was waning. Back then the Church was a power unto itself.

3 We apparently agree on. The posted entry there is absolutely wrong.

4 Was under "Differences Between the Islamic and Christian-Based Worlds". Many Christians would like nothing better than for our laws to follow Christian beliefs exclusively. A good example is the support of D.O.M.A. by most Christians (some such as myself didn't support it as long as it was only legal marriage and churches weren't required to officiate). That's not "religious freedom" which was the point that was posted.

5 Was also under "Differences Between the Islamic and Christian-Based Worlds" and you have to admit that there are those Christians that refuse medical treatment, preferring to "leave it all up to God's will". Whereas most of us believe that God gave us the ability to train doctors to help. It's still a stretch to post "Technology & Medicine" as if every Christian everywhere does support them.

WYSIWYG · Guru

WYSIWYG I'm not sure why you call yourself a Christian when you don't even believe the Bible is Gods word. It must be so nice to pick and choose which parts you're going to follow. Talk about creating your own religion.
- Tinydancer

___________________________________

I believe that Bible is the best job men could do to write down God's Love and Desires for Us, but that they mixed in their own human beliefs and ideas of the times. The Bible was written by men and men are imperfect.