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Students Blame Colleges for Worthless Education

Millennials sue their schools, claiming poor preparation for the job market

 

Go to college. Get a job. That’s how it’s supposed to work. However, millennials today are finding that going to college is not enough to provide them with the American dream. In economically uncertain times, with many fields morphing and changing, students are leaving college campuses with debt and entering an unpredictable world and job market. 

Anna Alaburda is the most recent ex-student to join a growing trend of taking her jobless hostility and turning it towards her own alma mater, the Thomas Jefferson School of Law in San Diego.

Alaburda claimed the school was responsible for selling her on false hopes of a bright legal career after graduation. After racking up around $170,000 in debt, and unable to find a full-time legal position after a decade, Alaburda filed suit in California claiming fraud because the school had inflated employment data about graduates.

Her suit was one of 15 in the last several years to go after colleges and their promoted employment placement rates. Alaburda’s was the first to go to trial, and she lost. Thomas Jefferson’s lawyer, Michael Sullivan, successfully argued in the case that the school held no responsibility for Alaburda’s situation and that she, like other disgruntled students, needed to take personal responsibility. It was also revealed Alaburda had actually been offered a job right out of school, but turned it down stating, in legal documents, that it “was less favorable than non-law-related jobs that were available.”

The yearly salary was $60,000.

“I’m not here to tell you a law degree is a guarantee of career success, is a guarantee of riches. It’s not. No degree is,” Sullivan told the jury that later threw out Alaburda’s lawsuit, which sought $125,000 from the school.

Most other lawsuits against various schools have been thrown out by judges or dropped. One suit, filed by nine former students of New York Law School, sought $225 million in damages. They, too, claimed the school had used fraudulent and misleading employment figures to sell them on an expensive education.

Justice Melvin L. Schweitzer of New York Supreme Court dismissed the lawsuit and said law students would need to be "wearing blinders" to not see that a "goodly number of law school graduates toil (perhaps part-time) in drudgery or have less than hugely successful careers."

Other judges in Illinois and Michigan seemed to agree, throwing out similar lawsuits concluding that students used personal judgment opting for expensive educations and betting on futures that were never guaranteed to be handed to them.

While it’s easy to snicker at yet another example of a generation unable to deal with a changing world and market or to take personal responsibility for their lives, it’s important not to shy away from the flip side of the story. In the age of "safe spaces," coddled campuses and astronomical tuitions rates, colleges might be playing a bigger role than many think in helping tonot prepare a generation for the real world.

Thomas Jefferson, the school Alaburda unsuccessfully sued, reported absurdly high employment numbers for graduates. In 2011, when legal hiring was down, the school claimed over 90 percent of its graduates were working full-time. When Alaburda applied, she was seduced by the claim that over 80 percent of graduates were working full-time.

What she claims the school didn’t reveal was that many of these jobs were in the restaurant business or cleaning pools — nothing to do with legal careers. The American Bar Association has tried in recent years to get schools to be more transparent about their promoted employment rates, but that hasn’t stopped much; and it isn’t just law schools promoting such numbers. After all, the higher your employment placement rates are, the higher your tuition and enrollment numbers can be.

"The university I currently attend ... does boast about employment rates. From what I have seen, the claims they make are highly embellished," said a University of Southern Maine student, who added, "I do know quite a few graduates who have had trouble finding a job in their field. Many of the graduates I know end up working in the restaurant business, which has nothing to do with their degree."

Some for-profit schools have had to make big payouts as a result of investigations into fraudulent tactics to get higher tuition from students. The U.S. Department of Education threw a $30 million fine at Corinthian Colleges last year for using inflated employment placement rates to lure students to their campuses. The year before, Salter College was ordered to pay nearly $4 million dollars in repayments to students by Massachusetts Attorney General Martha Coakley due to similar tactics.

Colleges everywhere are already under fire for their growing political correctness and coddling of students from real-world issues and struggles (even Obama weighed in against schools in that area), and these payouts and lawsuits are yet another ding in their weakening armor. At the same time, many millennials are showing themselves to be allergic to personal responsibility.

The real world doesn’t care if you have a degree — it cares that you have an education and know what you’re doing. 

 

http://www.lifezette.com/popzette/students-blame-colleges-for-worthless-education/



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I wonder how all these lawsuits against colleges will affect the cost of tuition.

I suppose this is the result of the entitlement generation. When I graduated from law school, the legal profession tanked in California, so I knew finding a job that paid more than I was making as a law clerk would be difficult. Never occurred to me to sue the school. Instead, I used my degree to get a job in a different field and relocated to an area that provided more opportunity. But what does an old baby boomer know.

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Both my kids had no trouble finding jobs after they graduated college. They had take other jobs while they looked but they did it. My son sent his resume 4 times before he was hired.

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FNW wrote:

I wonder how all these lawsuits against colleges will affect the cost of tuition.

I suppose this is the result of the entitlement generation. When I graduated from law school, the legal profession tanked in California, so I knew finding a job that paid more than I was making as a law clerk would be difficult. Never occurred to me to sue the school. Instead, I used my degree to get a job in a different field and relocated to an area that provided more opportunity. But what does an old baby boomer know.


 And that is ingenuity, a lost characteristic on most of the younger generation.



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I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
FNW wrote:

I wonder how all these lawsuits against colleges will affect the cost of tuition.

I suppose this is the result of the entitlement generation. When I graduated from law school, the legal profession tanked in California, so I knew finding a job that paid more than I was making as a law clerk would be difficult. Never occurred to me to sue the school. Instead, I used my degree to get a job in a different field and relocated to an area that provided more opportunity. But what does an old baby boomer know.


 And that is ingenuity, a lost characteristic on most of the younger generation.

 

 

And why is that characteristic lost? Because the parents won't allow their Very Special Snowflakes to develop it!! Won't let them out of their sight to play, won't let them participate in any activity that is not totally structured and planned out, won't let them even have a teacher in school that wasn't hand picked by mom and dad ahead of time in case their VSS doesn't absolutely get along with the teacher in every way. He child had no opportunity to develop ingenuity yet we expect them to possess it somehow ! 

 



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Well, i do blame colleges for not staying current with the times. For offering a bunch of useless degrees and crap and convincing naive kids and parents that they are actually going to find someone who values that degree. They lie. They create a lot of hoops and stumbling blocks and turn degrees that could be 2 yrs into 4 or more.

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And I also blame it on employers. For requiring a higher certificate of education than necessary for certain jobs. For requiring X years of experience before hiring people.

When DH was last job hunting, employers wanted a BS in computers, 5 years experience for what should have been an entry level position. And they were paying $9/hour. For an IT Network specialist.

I am a FC Bookkeeper with 31 years experience (started for Mom's business at age 13). For a FT FC-Bkpr position that I am overqualified for, they are looking for someone with a BS in Accounting, minimum 3 years experience and willing to work for $10-11.00/hour. Max I saw was for $14/hr. I currently make $28/hr working part time and I don't have an accounting degree. Heck, until a few months ago, I did not have any college degree.

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jlbear71 wrote:

And I also blame it on employers. For requiring a higher certificate of education than necessary for certain jobs. For requiring X years of experience before hiring people.

When DH was last job hunting, employers wanted a BS in computers, 5 years experience for what should have been an entry level position. And they were paying $9/hour. For an IT Network specialist.

I am a FC Bookkeeper with 31 years experience (started for Mom's business at age 13). For a FT FC-Bkpr position that I am overqualified for, they are looking for someone with a BS in Accounting, minimum 3 years experience and willing to work for $10-11.00/hour. Max I saw was for $14/hr. I currently make $28/hr working part time and I don't have an accounting degree. Heck, until a few months ago, I did not have any college degree.


 I agree 100%. The local children's science museum near our home in Indiana was looking for a janitor. They advertised the position as "seeking a janitor". They wanted a college degree in engineering and were willing to pay $12/hr. Really?! That's hysterical. Who in the hell is going to apply for that?!



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Well, i do blame colleges for not staying current with the times. For offering a bunch of useless degrees and crap and convincing naive kids and parents that they are actually going to find someone who values that degree. They lie. They create a lot of hoops and stumbling blocks and turn degrees that could be 2 yrs into 4 or more.


 I disagree with this. What may be important and worthwhile to one family may not be to another. Also, many graduate degrees that are completely useful (like law) have undergrad degrees that might not seem so useful. We need people to restore precious works of art when they get old or damaged. Art majors do that. We need lawyers -- you can major in almost anything and go to law school. My cousin majored in English and then became a lawyer. We decry the state of the mental health situation in this country. The hospitals and treatment centers are understaffed. Who staffs drug treatment centers and mental hospitals? Psychology majors, social work majors...

It isn't the fault of the school. I don't count on a third party to tell me what my career or my values should be. That's up to the individual. You want to major in underwater basket weaving ? Go ahead! Someone will hire you to do something. Just don't complain that it isn't a job that makes 6 figures. 



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The problem is unrealistic expectations. Just because you have a college degree doesn't mean you still don't have to start at the bottom. These recent grads think they deserve to have a top paying perfect job right out of the gate. That's not how it works.

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Lawyerlady wrote:

The problem is unrealistic expectations. Just because you have a college degree doesn't mean you still don't have to start at the bottom. These recent grads think they deserve to have a top paying perfect job right out of the gate. That's not how it works.


   I agree  with that.  However, there is no real job description for some of these degrees.  So, how can you even start at entry level if there really isn't a career for that degree in the first place?



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When I was attending school part-time in the evenings, I had an employer, an attorney, tell me degrees were important not because of what you learn, but because it shows you can finish something you started.

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The SCHOOLS paint a rosy picture of BALONEY to prospective students and parents. It is NO different than some financial advisor promising you 20% returns which they are not allowed to do. Neither should schools act like you are going to have some 6 figure career if you major in some obscure degree. What schools should do instead is keep date on the graduates and see where they wind up in 5 yrs. Then, they can show the data and say, 'out of these 100 students, 3 of them are employed as Archeologists and the other 97 work in retail" or something like that.

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FNW wrote:

When I was attending school part-time in the evenings, I had an employer, an attorney, tell me degrees were important not because of what you learn, but because it shows you can finish something you started.


 Yes, which used to be the logic applied to High School.  And, we have cheapened the value of a college degree by trying to send everyone to college.



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

The problem is unrealistic expectations. Just because you have a college degree doesn't mean you still don't have to start at the bottom. These recent grads think they deserve to have a top paying perfect job right out of the gate. That's not how it works.


   I agree  with that.  However, there is no real job description for some of these degrees.  So, how can you even start at entry level if there really isn't a career for that degree in the first place?


 Well, not every job requires a specific degree. 



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Some jobs can utilize people of varying degrees. People in ad agencies have degrees in art, psychology, marketing, English, etc.



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Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

The problem is unrealistic expectations. Just because you have a college degree doesn't mean you still don't have to start at the bottom. These recent grads think they deserve to have a top paying perfect job right out of the gate. That's not how it works.


   I agree  with that.  However, there is no real job description for some of these degrees.  So, how can you even start at entry level if there really isn't a career for that degree in the first place?


 Well, not every job requires a specific degree. 


 Yes, which in reality means, they don't need any degree at all, but because so many people have useless degrees, it is easier to thin out the applicants but tossing that in there as a requirement.



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To anyone stupid enough to hold a college or university at fault because you have a worthless degree:

If you sign up for classes that will result in a worthless degree, and if you pay for those classes that will result in that worthless degree, why is it the college's fault? Did they force you to get a worthless degree, or did you choose to do so of your own accord?

As with any other business, colleges will offer classes that students are willing to pay for.

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WYSIWYG wrote:

To anyone stupid enough to hold a college or university at fault because you have a worthless degree:

If you sign up for classes that will result in a worthless degree, and if you pay for those classes that will result in that worthless degree, why is it the college's fault? Did they force you to get a worthless degree, or did you choose to do so of your own accord?

As with any other business, colleges will offer classes that students are willing to pay for.


 Because colleges LIE.  Professors LIE.  They try to push kids into more obscure majors to fill slots.  That's why.  And, High Schools do a poor job guiding kids.  And, parents themselves often aren't doing enough legwork either.  It is a lot of failure across the board.



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Now, one of our local colleges offers things like forensic science and wildlife technology. Of course CSI is fun, but there isn't a huge need for that. And, wildlife technology, yes we need a handful of park rangers here and there but are there really any other jobs for that? Maybe a zoo.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:

To anyone stupid enough to hold a college or university at fault because you have a worthless degree:

If you sign up for classes that will result in a worthless degree, and if you pay for those classes that will result in that worthless degree, why is it the college's fault? Did they force you to get a worthless degree, or did you choose to do so of your own accord?

As with any other business, colleges will offer classes that students are willing to pay for.


 Because colleges LIE.  Professors LIE.  They try to push kids into more obscure majors to fill slots.  That's why.  And, High Schools do a poor job guiding kids.  And, parents themselves often aren't doing enough legwork either.  It is a lot of failure across the board.


 Yeah- I actually agree with WYSIWYG on this one.  Personal responsibility people, it's a thing.  If you don't realize there is not a big market for philosophy majors, maybe you were too stupid to be in college in the first place.

 

 



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Now, one of our local colleges offers things like forensic science and wildlife technology. Of course CSI is fun, but there isn't a huge need for that. And, wildlife technology, yes we need a handful of park rangers here and there but are there really any other jobs for that? Maybe a zoo.


 Seriously?  LOL - that's actually a useful degree.  We will always need law enforcement support.



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:

To anyone stupid enough to hold a college or university at fault because you have a worthless degree:

If you sign up for classes that will result in a worthless degree, and if you pay for those classes that will result in that worthless degree, why is it the college's fault? Did they force you to get a worthless degree, or did you choose to do so of your own accord?

As with any other business, colleges will offer classes that students are willing to pay for.


 Because colleges LIE.  Professors LIE.  They try to push kids into more obscure majors to fill slots.  That's why.  And, High Schools do a poor job guiding kids.  And, parents themselves often aren't doing enough legwork either.  It is a lot of failure across the board.


 I actually see way less of the over sell and way more of colleges trying to "weed people out" -- which is good!! They should try and weed out people who are not cut out for the work. But if you say you are interested in a major, don't be surprised if they tell you how great that major is! It's their job. It's the student's job to determine if a degree in that major will be valuable for them or not. For some people it is, and for some it is not. It isn't the school's job to determine that for you. 



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Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Now, one of our local colleges offers things like forensic science and wildlife technology. Of course CSI is fun, but there isn't a huge need for that. And, wildlife technology, yes we need a handful of park rangers here and there but are there really any other jobs for that? Maybe a zoo.


 Seriously?  LOL - that's actually a useful degree.  We will always need law enforcement support.


   Somewhat.  They grossly oversell it and overstate the market for it.



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Mellow Momma wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:

To anyone stupid enough to hold a college or university at fault because you have a worthless degree:

If you sign up for classes that will result in a worthless degree, and if you pay for those classes that will result in that worthless degree, why is it the college's fault? Did they force you to get a worthless degree, or did you choose to do so of your own accord?

As with any other business, colleges will offer classes that students are willing to pay for.


 Because colleges LIE.  Professors LIE.  They try to push kids into more obscure majors to fill slots.  That's why.  And, High Schools do a poor job guiding kids.  And, parents themselves often aren't doing enough legwork either.  It is a lot of failure across the board.


 I actually see way less of the over sell and way more of colleges trying to "weed people out" -- which is good!! They should try and weed out people who are not cut out for the work. But if you say you are interested in a major, don't be surprised if they tell you how great that major is! It's their job. It's the student's job to determine if a degree in that major will be valuable for them or not. For some people it is, and for some it is not. It isn't the school's job to determine that for you. 


   OR, they could weed out a lot of students BEFORE they take their money for 1 or 2 years.  When i was in my program, there was clearly a guy that everyone knew couldn't cut it.  He shouldn't have even been accepted.  Well, he flunked out.  So, they wasted his time, the professor's time and took his money for nothing.



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:

To anyone stupid enough to hold a college or university at fault because you have a worthless degree:

If you sign up for classes that will result in a worthless degree, and if you pay for those classes that will result in that worthless degree, why is it the college's fault? Did they force you to get a worthless degree, or did you choose to do so of your own accord?

As with any other business, colleges will offer classes that students are willing to pay for.


 Because colleges LIE.  Professors LIE.  They try to push kids into more obscure majors to fill slots.  That's why.  And, High Schools do a poor job guiding kids.  And, parents themselves often aren't doing enough legwork either.  It is a lot of failure across the board.


 I actually see way less of the over sell and way more of colleges trying to "weed people out" -- which is good!! They should try and weed out people who are not cut out for the work. But if you say you are interested in a major, don't be surprised if they tell you how great that major is! It's their job. It's the student's job to determine if a degree in that major will be valuable for them or not. For some people it is, and for some it is not. It isn't the school's job to determine that for you. 


   OR, they could weed out a lot of students BEFORE they take their money for 1 or 2 years.  When i was in my program, there was clearly a guy that everyone knew couldn't cut it.  He shouldn't have even been accepted.  Well, he flunked out.  So, they wasted his time, the professor's time and took his money for nothing.


 He met the requirements to get in.  School admittance officers are not sitting in classes or going to the bars with your worthless classmates.  And believe it or not - some of those worthless students DO grow up after the first year or two and manage to graduate and get a job.

College students are adults.  It is not the school's job to molly coddle and babysit them.  And you know who should have known best that he was a crap student?  HIM.  And his parents. 



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He was an idiot. He had NO Chance. They just willingly took his money for nothing.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

He was an idiot. He had NO Chance. They just willingly took his money for nothing.


 So, the school had a crystal ball and knew the kid would not mature, or attempt to better himself?



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

He was an idiot. He had NO Chance. They just willingly took his money for nothing.


 And you know all of his previous test scores and course work and potential? I know people with genius level IQ's who flunked out. How would the school know who should be "allowed" to take courses? And I know some veritable idiots (one scored a 12 on her ACT, that's what you get for showing up) who passed with flying colors. People need to take advantage of their chances in life.



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My son has genius level IQ. He has 20/10 vision. The Air Force was ALL over him. Until they found out that he couldn't bend his foot. At all. They dismissed him immediately.

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Well, Bernie wants free free free college. For what exactly? The politicians keep making these ridiculous trade policies which have deindustrialized our nation. So, get a college degree to do WHAT? He is barking up the wrong tree as Dems tend to do.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Well, Bernie wants free free free college. For what exactly? The politicians keep making these ridiculous trade policies which have deindustrialized our nation. So, get a college degree to do WHAT? He is barking up the wrong tree as Dems tend to do.


 Alright - let's understand something.  Free college is stupid.  You know why?  Because this country has the 14th amendment which is that the government must treat everyone equally.  You know what is more stupid than parents and kids paying for an education some idiot is going to thrown down the drain - making the taxpayers do it.  Because free college for one means free college for all, regardless of intelligence, drive, or ability.  Talk about wasting money.  But why wouldn't young adults spend 4-5 years scraping by in college if it's free?

The concept of free college doesn't work.



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Yeah go party for 4 years. Why not? Liberal policies never work. They don't understand human nature at all. They don't seem to understand the concepts of earning something and keeping what you earned and not allowing someone else who didn't to help themselves to what you have earned. They don't understand that those who didn't earn something, then do not place the same value on something that someone who worked for it.

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Free college would just be extending high school 4 years at great expense. A college degree would be nothing more than a glorified high school diploma.

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Lawyerlady wrote:

Free college would just be extending high school 4 years at great expense. A college degree would be nothing more than a glorified high school diploma.


   Well, that's kind of the point.  The more hapless and helpless you are and coddled, the more you need government.



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Now, one of our local colleges offers things like forensic science and wildlife technology. Of course CSI is fun, but there isn't a huge need for that. And, wildlife technology, yes we need a handful of park rangers here and there but are there really any other jobs for that? Maybe a zoo.


You think you can only be a park ranger with a degree in wildlife technology? 

They're in demand here. And not as park rangers.



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Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Well, Bernie wants free free free college. For what exactly? The politicians keep making these ridiculous trade policies which have deindustrialized our nation. So, get a college degree to do WHAT? He is barking up the wrong tree as Dems tend to do.


 Alright - let's understand something.  Free college is stupid.  You know why?  Because this country has the 14th amendment which is that the government must treat everyone equally.  You know what is more stupid than parents and kids paying for an education some idiot is going to thrown down the drain - making the taxpayers do it.  Because free college for one means free college for all, regardless of intelligence, drive, or ability.  Talk about wasting money.  But why wouldn't young adults spend 4-5 years scraping by in college if it's free?

The concept of free college doesn't work.


We have free community college (2 year) in TN.  It's shocking how much it really helps.  I would say most get their associates, some go on to a 4 year college.  But if they don't get the grades, they don't get the money... 



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Ohfour wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Well, Bernie wants free free free college. For what exactly? The politicians keep making these ridiculous trade policies which have deindustrialized our nation. So, get a college degree to do WHAT? He is barking up the wrong tree as Dems tend to do.


 Alright - let's understand something.  Free college is stupid.  You know why?  Because this country has the 14th amendment which is that the government must treat everyone equally.  You know what is more stupid than parents and kids paying for an education some idiot is going to thrown down the drain - making the taxpayers do it.  Because free college for one means free college for all, regardless of intelligence, drive, or ability.  Talk about wasting money.  But why wouldn't young adults spend 4-5 years scraping by in college if it's free?

The concept of free college doesn't work.


We have free community college (2 year) in TN.  It's shocking how much it really helps.  I would say most get their associates, some go on to a 4 year college.  But if they don't get the grades, they don't get the money... 


 That is a must.



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Perhaps the solution would be to test upon entry and then place people in the college classes they are more suited to.

Or do a lottery.

At high school graduation the child takes their diploma and draws out their job.

Some will go to college, some will go to tech school and some will go to work.

Fact is, we can't have millions of college educated jobless people.



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lilyofcourse wrote:

Perhaps the solution would be to test upon entry and then place people in the college classes they are more suited to.

Or do a lottery.

At high school graduation the child takes their diploma and draws out their job.

Some will go to college, some will go to tech school and some will go to work.

Fact is, we can't have millions of college educated jobless people.


 You know all those countries we are trying to catch up to in terms of math and science, engineering, etc.?  They do this at the end of middle school and send them to appropriate high schools.  So the ones good at math and science get an education worthy of their intelligence, and those not academically inclined go to a trade high school.  They treat all the kids the same until this point, and then divide them by strength. 



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DEAR AMY: I guess I would be a bad parent because I have the same concern as “Desperate Parent,” the Spanish major’s parent who wanted their daughter to stick with a practical major. Most of the people I knew at the U of W did know what they wanted to do, and looked for a degree in a real major — one designed to be the bedrock of a career. Those who did not know were in programs like English or poly-sci or Spanish, where they marked time while they tried to figure out what to do with their lives. When those latter students graduate, they are not going to find many employment doors open, and they will be repaying loans from low salaries and living at home. There is a real penalty for not seizing life.

Mike

DEAR MIKE: Thank you.

Amy Dickinson, English major, Georgetown University.



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When I was in college, "in loco parentis" was a normal university attitude ...

the college was acting as and for the parents who were located elsewhere.

This included things like,

curfews for Freshmen women, no opposite sex visitors in the dorms,

and everyone had "an advisor" to help guide them (us) toward getting a degree.

 

I have no idea whether anyone was steered away from "worthless" degrees.

 



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

The SCHOOLS paint a rosy picture of BALONEY to prospective students and parents. It is NO different than some financial advisor promising you 20% returns which they are not allowed to do. Neither should schools act like you are going to have some 6 figure career if you major in some obscure degree. What schools should do instead is keep date on the graduates and see where they wind up in 5 yrs. Then, they can show the data and say, 'out of these 100 students, 3 of them are employed as Archeologists and the other 97 work in retail" or something like that.


 LLLOOOOLLLL!!!!  I'm crying!!!!

By the way, I agree with you.

 



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