TOTALLY GEEKED!

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Acceptance vs Tolerance

FNW · Guru

I can tolerate some things I cannot accept.

Cheerios4606 · Guru

I have a hard time with another word that is tossed around a lot... "Respect". As in, 'I respect your opinion that abortion is ok, however I believe it is murder." If you have such a strong opinion about something, how is it you can 'respect' the other person's opposing opinion? Using the word "respect" seems like it simply doesn't fit the scenario sometimes.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Good point.

apple · Guru

Cheerios4606 wrote:
I have a hard time with another word that is tossed around a lot... "Respect". As in, 'I respect your opinion that abortion is ok, however I believe it is murder." If you have such a strong opinion about something, how is it you can 'respect' the other person's opposing opinion? Using the word "respect" seems like it simply doesn't fit the scenario sometimes.

I respect that you have the right to make choices over what happens to your own body.

That does not mean I respect the choices you make.

Simple really.

apple · Guru

Tolerance is a deal to maintain peace.

Acceptance is based on mutual respect. There is no misplaced sense of superiority when used genuinely.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

The Left view tolerance as acceptance. To be "tolerant" means you have to hip hooray and rubber stamp everyone's gay marriage, transgender potty habits or whatever.

Ohfour · Hooker

I tolerate my BIL. I do not accept the way he had chosen to live his life and tell him so.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Tolerance is, you can live how you want and i will live how i want and we won't beat each other up. However, I don't have to LIKE what you do nor do you have to LIKE what i do . YOu don't have to approve of me. You don't pay my bills so i couldn't care less who likes what i do or dont' do. On the other hand, if i don't pay your bills then your life isn't my business either, unless you are trying to force my kids to accept your lifestyle or wahtever.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

right
rīt/Submit
adjective
1.
morally good, justified, or acceptable.
"I hope we're doing the right thing"
synonyms: just, fair, proper, good, upright, righteous, virtuous, moral, ethical, honorable, honest; More
2.
true or correct as a fact.
"I'm not sure I know the right answer"
synonyms: correct, accurate, exact, precise; More

priv·i·lege
ˈpriv(ə)lij/Submit
noun
1.
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.
"education is a right, not a privilege"
synonyms: advantage, benefit; More
verbformal
1.
grant a privilege or privileges to.
"English inheritance law privileged the eldest son"

People want to confuse and use these two interchangeably as well.

WYSIWYG · Guru

I agree that there are many that don't understand those two words (tolerance and acceptance). Baking a cake for a celebration you disagree with is tolerance. Participating in the orgy where sinful activity will actually occur and include you in it's occurrence is acceptance.

Tolerance is given.

Acceptance is taken when something is given (like tolerance, maybe?) to you. That's probably why the root of the word "acceptance" is "accept".

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

WYSIWYG wrote:
I agree that there are many that don't understand those two words (tolerance and acceptance). Baking a cake for a celebration you disagree with is tolerance. Participating in the orgy where sinful activity will actually occur and include you in it's occurrence is acceptance.

Tolerance is given.

Acceptance is taken when something is given (like tolerance, maybe?) to you. That's probably why the root of the word "acceptance" is "accept".

There are definitions supplied.

You also need to look at the difference between Right and Privilege.

WYSIWYG · Guru

There are definitions supplied.

You also need to look at the difference between Right and Privilege.
- lilyofcourse

___________________________

Yes, there are definitions supplied. I agree with those definitions, and my statement does as well.

I did look at the difference between those other two. I didn't have any comment on them, as I believed they were a separate issue than the issue of the thread's OP.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
I agree that there are many that don't understand those two words (tolerance and acceptance). Baking a cake for a celebration you disagree with is tolerance. Participating in the orgy where sinful activity will actually occur and include you in it's occurrence is acceptance.

Tolerance is given.

Acceptance is taken when something is given (like tolerance, maybe?) to you. That's probably why the root of the word "acceptance" is "accept".

Baking a cake is not 'tolerance". I don't go over and bake a cake for a neighbor that I 'tolerate'. If I am just tolerating, i ignore them and go about my business and vice versa. I am not at their home delivering them a cake. Now, we can argue about offering niceties to others but that isn't what we are talking about.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
I agree that there are many that don't understand those two words (tolerance and acceptance). Baking a cake for a celebration you disagree with is tolerance. Participating in the orgy where sinful activity will actually occur and include you in it's occurrence is acceptance.

Tolerance is given.

Acceptance is taken when something is given (like tolerance, maybe?) to you. That's probably why the root of the word "acceptance" is "accept".
Baking a cake is not 'tolerance". I don't go over and bake a cake for a neighbor that I 'tolerate'. If I am just tolerating, i ignore them and go about my business and vice versa. I am not at their home delivering them a cake. Now, we can argue about offering niceties to others but that isn't what we are talking about.

If you CHOOSE to open a bakery, then...wait for it...you bake cakes. If an obese person comes in and buys 2 dozen cupcakes, do you refuse to sell them? If a pedophile buys cookies to give to unsuspecting children...

You get my point. It's been made here time & time again. You cannot pick and choose the sins that you condone and those you don't.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Sooo..... you want to deprive the business owner of a basic constitutional RIGHT in order to indulge a PRIVILEGE.

Awesome!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Flan gets to decide for everyone else what does or doesnt' violate their religious conscience.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
I agree that there are many that don't understand those two words (tolerance and acceptance). Baking a cake for a celebration you disagree with is tolerance. Participating in the orgy where sinful activity will actually occur and include you in it's occurrence is acceptance.

Tolerance is given.

Acceptance is taken when something is given (like tolerance, maybe?) to you. That's probably why the root of the word "acceptance" is "accept".
Baking a cake is not 'tolerance". I don't go over and bake a cake for a neighbor that I 'tolerate'. If I am just tolerating, i ignore them and go about my business and vice versa. I am not at their home delivering them a cake. Now, we can argue about offering niceties to others but that isn't what we are talking about.
If you CHOOSE to open a bakery, then...wait for it...you bake cakes. If an obese person comes in and buys 2 dozen cupcakes, do you refuse to sell them? If a pedophile buys cookies to give to unsuspecting children...
You get my point. It's been made here time & time again. You cannot pick and choose the sins that you condone and those you don't.
flan

LMAO! The irony is delicious!

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
Sooo..... you want to deprive the business owner of a basic constitutional RIGHT in order to indulge a PRIVILEGE.

Awesome!

I want a business owner to run his or her business. Period.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

They are running their business. And, if they want to lose a sale, that is their choice, not yours.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Sooo..... you want to deprive the business owner of a basic constitutional RIGHT in order to indulge a PRIVILEGE.

Awesome!
I want a business owner to run his or her business. Period.
flan

And if they run it out of business because of there policies and practices, that is on them.

Should I go to a Muslim owned store and demand a pound of bacon for a church pot luck? And I'm gonna go in wearing as little as possible, while menstruating, and be as bossy as possible.

Should they be forced to sell it to me?

-- Edited by lilyofcourse on Wednesday 11th of May 2016 09:11:48 AM

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Sooo..... you want to deprive the business owner of a basic constitutional RIGHT in order to indulge a PRIVILEGE.

Awesome!
I want a business owner to run his or her business. Period.
flan
And if they run it out of business because of there policies and practices, that is on them.
Should I go to a Muslim owned store and demand a pound of bacon?

That's not remotely the same.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
I agree that there are many that don't understand those two words (tolerance and acceptance). Baking a cake for a celebration you disagree with is tolerance. Participating in the orgy where sinful activity will actually occur and include you in it's occurrence is acceptance.

Tolerance is given.

Acceptance is taken when something is given (like tolerance, maybe?) to you. That's probably why the root of the word "acceptance" is "accept".
Baking a cake is not 'tolerance". I don't go over and bake a cake for a neighbor that I 'tolerate'. If I am just tolerating, i ignore them and go about my business and vice versa. I am not at their home delivering them a cake. Now, we can argue about offering niceties to others but that isn't what we are talking about.
If you CHOOSE to open a bakery, then...wait for it...you bake cakes. If an obese person comes in and buys 2 dozen cupcakes, do you refuse to sell them? If a pedophile buys cookies to give to unsuspecting children...
You get my point. It's been made here time & time again. You cannot pick and choose the sins that you condone and those you don't.
flan
LMAO! The irony is delicious!

As delicious as wedding cake? evileye

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Sooo..... you want to deprive the business owner of a basic constitutional RIGHT in order to indulge a PRIVILEGE.

Awesome!
I want a business owner to run his or her business. Period.
flan
And if they run it out of business because of there policies and practices, that is on them.
Should I go to a Muslim owned store and demand a pound of bacon?
That's not remotely the same.
flan

Why?

Isn't handling bacon against their religion?

How is that different from forcing a Christian to bake a cake for a gay wedding?

apple · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Sooo..... you want to deprive the business owner of a basic constitutional RIGHT in order to indulge a PRIVILEGE.

Awesome!
I want a business owner to run his or her business. Period.
flan
And if they run it out of business because of there policies and practices, that is on them.
Should I go to a Muslim owned store and demand a pound of bacon?
That's not remotely the same.
flan
Why?
Isn't handling bacon against their religion?
How is that different from forcing a Christian to bake a cake for a gay wedding?

The difference being it is not the item that is for sale that is the issue.

The issue is selling the item to some, and not others. Discrimination.

weltschmerz · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Sooo..... you want to deprive the business owner of a basic constitutional RIGHT in order to indulge a PRIVILEGE.

Awesome!
I want a business owner to run his or her business. Period.
flan
And if they run it out of business because of there policies and practices, that is on them.
Should I go to a Muslim owned store and demand a pound of bacon?
That's not remotely the same.
flan
Why?
Isn't handling bacon against their religion?
How is that different from forcing a Christian to bake a cake for a gay wedding?

It's completely different. They don't carry bacon and don't sell bacon to ANYONE.

Bakers, however, are in the business of baking cakes.

weltschmerz · Guru

It's not like a Muslim will sell bacon to everyone BUT YOU.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

apple wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Sooo..... you want to deprive the business owner of a basic constitutional RIGHT in order to indulge a PRIVILEGE.

Awesome!
I want a business owner to run his or her business. Period.
flan
And if they run it out of business because of there policies and practices, that is on them.
Should I go to a Muslim owned store and demand a pound of bacon?
That's not remotely the same.
flan
Why?
Isn't handling bacon against their religion?
How is that different from forcing a Christian to bake a cake for a gay wedding?

The difference being it is not the item that is for sale that is the issue.
The issue is selling the item to some, and not others. Discrimination.

No. The issue is respecting another's religious beliefs.

Ohfour · Hooker

I will bring this up again...because no one seems to be able to answer.

Should a black owned restaurant be forced to cater a KKK rally?

apple · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
apple wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Sooo..... you want to deprive the business owner of a basic constitutional RIGHT in order to indulge a PRIVILEGE.

Awesome!
I want a business owner to run his or her business. Period.
flan
And if they run it out of business because of there policies and practices, that is on them.
Should I go to a Muslim owned store and demand a pound of bacon?
That's not remotely the same.
flan
Why?
Isn't handling bacon against their religion?
How is that different from forcing a Christian to bake a cake for a gay wedding?

The difference being it is not the item that is for sale that is the issue.
The issue is selling the item to some, and not others. Discrimination.
No. The issue is respecting another's religious beliefs.

No, the issue is being in the business of selling an item and then not selling it to certain people. This my dear, is the definition of discrimination.

Ohfour · Hooker

apple wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
apple wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Sooo..... you want to deprive the business owner of a basic constitutional RIGHT in order to indulge a PRIVILEGE.

Awesome!
I want a business owner to run his or her business. Period.
flan
And if they run it out of business because of there policies and practices, that is on them.
Should I go to a Muslim owned store and demand a pound of bacon?
That's not remotely the same.
flan
Why?
Isn't handling bacon against their religion?
How is that different from forcing a Christian to bake a cake for a gay wedding?

The difference being it is not the item that is for sale that is the issue.
The issue is selling the item to some, and not others. Discrimination.
No. The issue is respecting another's religious beliefs.
No, the issue is being in the business of selling an item and then not selling it to certain people. This my dear, is the definition of discrimination.

Like black people being able to deny service to the KKK?

FNW · Guru

I've seen a Muslim or two go to a deli and get all bent out of shape when they see pork being sold, making demands that pork be handled differently just for them, then getting outraged when the deli person cannot guarantee their ham or utensils never touched the same counter where chicken, beef, or lamb was prepared.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Why can't private business do business the way they want?

Let's try this another way.

When did being gay become a protected class?

Ohfour · Hooker

lilyofcourse wrote:
Why can't private business do business the way they want?

Let's try this another way.

When did being gay become a protected class?

It's not...

Mary Zombie · Guru

A private business should be able to deny service for any reason. As someone else said any consequences are on them.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

weltschmerz wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Sooo..... you want to deprive the business owner of a basic constitutional RIGHT in order to indulge a PRIVILEGE.

Awesome!
I want a business owner to run his or her business. Period.
flan
And if they run it out of business because of there policies and practices, that is on them.
Should I go to a Muslim owned store and demand a pound of bacon?
That's not remotely the same.
flan
Why?
Isn't handling bacon against their religion?
How is that different from forcing a Christian to bake a cake for a gay wedding?

It's completely different. They don't carry bacon and don't sell bacon to ANYONE.
Bakers, however, are in the business of baking cakes.

Really? Who knew what bakers did! Thanks so much!

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

How about this kind of tolerance? Don't make people bake cakes for weddings that are against their religious beliefs.

apple · Guru

FNW wrote:
I've seen a Muslim or two go to a deli and get all bent out of shape when they see pork being sold, making demands that pork be handled differently just for them, then getting outraged when the deli person cannot guarantee their ham or utensils never touched the same counter where chicken, beef, or lamb was prepared.

I have seen people Some Jewish and some who have allergies, ask for special handling procedures. Its not a problem, at least not where I shop.

apple · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
How about this kind of tolerance? Don't make people bake cakes for weddings that are against their religious beliefs.

So tolerance is a one way street?

It is not about the cake, the issue is the writing on the cake apparently.

If you are in the business of baking cakes and selling them, just do that.

No matter where you live, you cannot deny service to someone because of his or her race, color, religion, national origin or disability. In some states and cities, you also cannot discriminate against people because of their sexual orientation. If there is no state, federal or local law prohibiting discrimination in public accommodations against a particular group of people, then you can legally refuse to serve that group of people.

Perhaps the baker should move to another State, where his discrimination is allowed.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

We have conscientious objector status to opt out of the draft, war, etc. just because people don't believe in it. We provide special diets to people for religious purposes in prison. Why would you not allow exemptions for something that sincerely violates religious beliefs? You want to preach tolerance and acceptance without giving it.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I wonder if I could get a gay cake at my local bakery.

It isn't the cake.

If I knowingly provide the get away car for the bank robber, that isn't participating in the robbery, right?

-- Edited by lilyofcourse on Wednesday 11th of May 2016 02:20:01 PM

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I have told you that the baker of my wedding cake was gay, haven't I? And my hairdresser was his boyfriend?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Tolerance to them Lilly means YOU must bend over to their beliefs. But to offer the same to you, No.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Is a gay cake happier than a straight cake?

Ohfour · Hooker

apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
How about this kind of tolerance? Don't make people bake cakes for weddings that are against their religious beliefs.
So tolerance is a one way street?

It is not about the cake, the issue is the writing on the cake apparently.
If you are in the business of baking cakes and selling them, just do that.

No matter where you live, you cannot deny service to someone because of his or her race, color, religion, national origin or disability. In some states and cities, you also cannot discriminate against people because of their sexual orientation. If there is no state, federal or local law prohibiting discrimination in public accommodations against a particular group of people, then you can legally refuse to serve that group of people.

Perhaps the baker should move to another State, where his discrimination is allowed.

Hey Apple...

So you think a black baker should bake a cake for a KKK rally?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

They will say Yes as a hypothetical. Until it actually happens.

FNW · Guru

apple wrote:
FNW wrote:
I've seen a Muslim or two go to a deli and get all bent out of shape when they see pork being sold, making demands that pork be handled differently just for them, then getting outraged when the deli person cannot guarantee their ham or utensils never touched the same counter where chicken, beef, or lamb was prepared.
I have seen people Some Jewish and some who have allergies, ask for special handling procedures. Its not a problem, at least not where I shop.

We have a high concentration of muslims in this area, more so in the past 8 years. Some get quite belligerent when the clerk cannot make the guarantee. And don't get me started on their demand for halal meats.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
How about this kind of tolerance? Don't make people bake cakes for weddings that are against their religious beliefs.
So tolerance is a one way street?

It is not about the cake, the issue is the writing on the cake apparently.
If you are in the business of baking cakes and selling them, just do that.

No matter where you live, you cannot deny service to someone because of his or her race, color, religion, national origin or disability. In some states and cities, you also cannot discriminate against people because of their sexual orientation. If there is no state, federal or local law prohibiting discrimination in public accommodations against a particular group of people, then you can legally refuse to serve that group of people.

Perhaps the baker should move to another State, where his discrimination is allowed.

I'd be more than happy to bake them a birthday cake, graduation cake, or cake just for fun.

But gay marriage is a sin, and I won't take part in the celebration of that.

Just like a conscientious objector doesn't get drafted because they don't believe in war.

apple · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
We have conscientious objector status to opt out of the draft, war, etc. just because people don't believe in it. We provide special diets to people for religious purposes in prison. Why would you not allow exemptions for something that sincerely violates religious beliefs? You want to preach tolerance and acceptance without giving it.

IMO there is plenty of tolerance for religion (tax breaks too) in your country.

Also, I very much disagree with allowing businesses to discriminate, especially using religion as a tool to do so. Think about it, that would mean ALL religions and that could put many people in the position of being discriminated against for the simplest of reasons, like the fact that they are women or not wearing certain items or wearing certain items etc.....

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
We have conscientious objector status to opt out of the draft, war, etc. just because people don't believe in it. We provide special diets to people for religious purposes in prison. Why would you not allow exemptions for something that sincerely violates religious beliefs? You want to preach tolerance and acceptance without giving it.
IMO there is plenty of tolerance for religion (tax breaks too) in your country.
Also, I very much disagree with allowing businesses to discriminate, especially using religion as a tool to do so. Think about it, that would mean ALL religions and that could put many people in the position of being discriminated against for the simplest of reasons, like the fact that they are women or not wearing certain items or wearing certain items etc.....

Freedom of Religion is protected in this country as a fundamental right. People like to ignore that.