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Post Info TOPIC: It’s Sexist To Tell a Woman She Looks ‘Tired’ At Work — And Here’s Why


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It’s Sexist To Tell a Woman She Looks ‘Tired’ At Work — And Here’s Why
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 It’s Sexist To Tell a Woman She Looks ‘Tired’ At Work — And Here’s Why

 
 
 

“Are you alright Radhika? You look quite tired. Are you ill? Late night?”

These are the responses I tend to elicit when I walk into the office wearing no make-up. On the occasions when I do decide to stick on a bit of powder and mascara, the reaction is quite different.

“You look nice today. Did you have a relaxing weekend? It really shows.” People have even remarked (in surprise): “You look quite pretty.”

Welcome to the politics of wearing make-up (or not) in the workplace.

Chances are if a woman has a totally bare face, she’ll be told by both male and female colleagues that she looks exhausted, hungover or ill. Tired and pale. It doesn’t matter if she’s actually healthier and happier than she’s ever been; people are so used to seeing made-up women at work that an au naturale face seems anything but natural.

Foundation, mascara, blusher, lipstick – these are the things that apparently make us seem ‘well groomed’. Shockingly, a senior female consultant told me recently that some of the positive feedback she’d received in her annual review was to do with make-up. She was praised for coming across as “smart” and “well-presented” – comments her bosses would never think to direct towards male employees.

The problem is that employers now expect women to wear make-up in order to seem ‘smart’ and ‘professional’.

For some it’s even compulsory. This week, actress Nicola Thorp raised awareness of one such sexist dress code at temping firm Portico.

When the 27-year-old was sent to a temporary receptionist job, at City firm PwC, she was told she had to wear high heels and make-up. She was even given a colour chart of the various nail varnish shades that were considered ‘acceptable’ in the office. When she turned up to her job in flat shoes, she was sent home unpaid – and believes if she’d turned up with no make-up on, the same would have happened.

Read more at the Daily Telegraph’s Women Section

 



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Oh good Lord.

The things people get upset over.

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Well, I'd be pissed off if I was sent home for wearing flats instead of heels and failing to wear enough make-up. And if that's only a female thing, that is actually sexual harassment.

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Every job has a dress code.



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lilyofcourse wrote:

Every job has a dress code.


 C'mon, Lily, you know that's different.  Don't play dumb.



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Not playing anything. (Don't get cheeky)

I guess I've never had to deal with it so I don't think about it the same.



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lilyofcourse wrote:

Not playing anything. (Don't get cheeky)

I guess I've never had to deal with it so I don't think about it the same.


 Women who get picked on about their personal appearance and such when they are making appropriate choices have won sexual harassment suits.  Firing someone because their heels are not high enough is the perfect example of sexism in the workplace.

 

Some stuff is ridiculous and needs to be called out.  Yes, there are a lot of stupid sexual harassment claims, but we can't just dismiss things that are actual sexism just because it wouldn't personally bother you.



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Don't women in the military have to have dress heels with their dress blues or whatever they are called?

Most office jobs, the women are supposed to wear pumps at least.

To me, sexual harassment is about bad touching and that kind of thing.

Not requiring a certain shoe or make up.



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She was told there was a dress code of sorts:

"When the 27-year-old was sent to a temporary receptionist job, at City firm PwC, she was told she had to wear high heels and make-up. She was even given a colour chart of the various nail varnish shades that were considered ‘acceptable’ in the office. When she turned up to her job in flat shoes, she was sent home unpaid – and believes if she’d turned up with no make-up on, the same would have happened."

 


So she violated it and was sent home.  Makes sense to me.

Doesn't anyone remember such things as dress codes?  I do.  Dresses required pantyhose.  Pants required coordinating blazer.  Undergarments required.  No tattoos, no piercings other than the ear lobes.    Companies had images and their employees were required to uphold that image.

Talk about entitlement.  Sheesh.

As for makeup, most women look better with it, if applied correctly.  I know I look like hell without it, and would expect someone to notice if I went without.  

Fortunately dress codes have loosened up, allowing me to wear pants without blazers (although I do quite often) and dresses without hose. 

I guess I'm vain.  I can't imagine showing up to work without my face and hair done, dressed appropriately.   I can't imagine showing up in a dress without having shaved and lotioned up my legs first.  I'm not sure neon nail polish would be considered appropriate for my profession.  Or jeans with holes in them, unless it was company picnic day.  Even then, I save my distressed denim for weekends.  

People look for something to take offense to these days.



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lilyofcourse wrote:

Don't women in the military have to have dress heels with their dress blues or whatever they are called?

Most office jobs, the women are supposed to wear pumps at least.

To me, sexual harassment is about bad touching and that kind of thing.

Not requiring a certain shoe or make up.


 They have a uniform.  



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It is ridiculous to require high heels. They are not good for you, and they often hurt.

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2 1/2" is the perfect height, IMO. 3-3 1/2" can be okay, depending on the quality of the shoe.

Years ago flats tended to be pretty frumpy. Think:

Rebecca Penny Loafer

 

These days they have really cute ones out that elongate the legs better:

 

Preston Flat

 

But if the dress code requires heels, then she knew before taking the job was was expected.    As archaic as this code sounds, I would like to know their reasoning behind the heels requirement.

I would imagine strippers are required to wear some pretty high heels, no?



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But I bet they could kick them off. LOL.

And stripping itself is a sexist job.


My flats are adorable. Right now I'm wearing bright red ones with little silvers studs around the toe.

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I remember a lawsuit where a woman won a sexual harassment suit b/c the female boss was basically bullying her about her clothes.

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Lawyerlady wrote:

But I bet they could kick them off. LOL.

And stripping itself is a sexist job.


My flats are adorable. Right now I'm wearing bright red ones with little silvers studs around the toe.


 I'm wearing pink suede pointy toed lace-up flats, currently.  

I remember having a big-boned female supervisor years ago who used to point out my thin wrists.  She  definitely sexually harassed me, too, but this was back in the 1980's.   



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Hey - a note from the doctor saying one can't wear heels due to some condition would make it impossible to enforce.

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FNW wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

But I bet they could kick them off. LOL.

And stripping itself is a sexist job.


My flats are adorable. Right now I'm wearing bright red ones with little silvers studs around the toe.


 I'm wearing pink suede pointy toed lace-up flats, currently.  

I remember having a big-boned female supervisor years ago who used to point out my thin wrists.  She  definitely sexually harassed me, too, but this was back in the 1980's.   


 My favorite new flats are pink suede with a glittery toe.



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Oh, yes, ADA and special accommodations. Perhaps they would move her from the front desk to the file room. I'm sure that would go over big, too.

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Lawyerlady wrote:
FNW wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

But I bet they could kick them off. LOL.

And stripping itself is a sexist job.


My flats are adorable. Right now I'm wearing bright red ones with little silvers studs around the toe.


 I'm wearing pink suede pointy toed lace-up flats, currently.  

I remember having a big-boned female supervisor years ago who used to point out my thin wrists.  She  definitely sexually harassed me, too, but this was back in the 1980's.   


 My favorite new flats are pink suede with a glittery toe.


 Cute!  

I love the d'orsay flats, too.  Very flattering!



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Yes, slightly pointy toes are best.

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I want these -

5ff7c09e2f44309257b053d5b0abd6fa.jpg



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I actually can't wear a lot of shoes and heels are difficult. I have to wear a lift in my left shoe, so all shoes have to have a back, and I have difficulty keeping heels on my feet. If they are too high, the lift doesn't sit right, and the shoes flop off my heel.

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I'm also on the hunt for some cute coral flats and some cute purple ones.

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Lawyerlady wrote:

I'm also on the hunt for some cute coral flats and some cute purple ones.


 I love Sam & Libby flats, BUT they are from Target.

They are one of the few styles that I can wear without having to break them in. Today I am wearing a silver pair, with bows. I have a purple pair as well.

flan



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I totally missed the high-heel requirement.

And most receptionists are seated behind a desk (in my mind at least).

flan

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I injured my knee a few years ago & my heels are definitely lower than they used to be. I was always comfortable with 3 1/2" now I'm down to about 2".

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Get back to me when men are judged if they DON'T wear makeup and/or high heels.

flan

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Men are judged if they don't shave, smell, don't dress appropriately for the job, don't wear a t-shirt under their dress shirts, don't wear appropriate footwear, have comb overs, use fake tanning products, are overweight and sloppy, have limp handshakes, are too femine, etc. Men are judged, just differently.

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FNW wrote:

Men are judged if they don't shave, smell, don't dress appropriately for the job, don't wear a t-shirt under their dress shirts, don't wear appropriate footwear, have comb overs, use fake tanning products, are overweight and sloppy, have limp handshakes, are too femine, etc. Men are judged, just differently.


 Ties.  A lot of them have to wear ties.



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Yes, ties. And the kind of ties. Too thin? Too wide? Crazy pattern? Bow ties? Wearing novelty ties?

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FNW wrote:

Yes, ties. And the kind of ties. Too thin? Too wide? Crazy pattern? Bow ties? Wearing novelty ties?


 I'm not aware of them being painful or bad for their health, though.  I'm not aware of a dress code item for men that is universally frowned upon by doctors.  

 

Heels are not good for you, physically, so they should not be a required dress code item.



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Lawyerlady wrote:
FNW wrote:

Yes, ties. And the kind of ties. Too thin? Too wide? Crazy pattern? Bow ties? Wearing novelty ties?


 I'm not aware of them being painful or bad for their health, though.  I'm not aware of a dress code item for men that is universally frowned upon by doctors.  

 

Heels are not good for you, physically, so they should not be a required dress code item.


 Exactly.

Most local libraries dropped the necktie part of the dress code about 20 years ago.

flan



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FNW wrote:

Men are judged if they don't shave, smell, don't dress appropriately for the job, don't wear a t-shirt under their dress shirts, don't wear appropriate footwear, have comb overs, use fake tanning products, are overweight and sloppy, have limp handshakes, are too femine, etc. Men are judged, just differently.


 But many of those things apply to women as well.

flan



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I remember a line from ""Grease" that always stuck in my head. "Beauty is pain."

Women have always done a lot of things to improve their appearance. A lot that isn't good for them. Think breast implants, botox, rib removal, etc. Even the corset is making a comeback. I wonder if people, and by people I mean employers, would be as concerned about enhancing appearance if women in general, didn't make it such an issue of it themselves.

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It is what it is. Companies are judged by the way their front-line employees present themselves to clients. In certain businesses, that could include make-up and heels for women. It's just the way it is. You can't seriously expect to be regarded as equal in the workplace and get equal pay if you don't bring in and/keep the customers.

Whether it is "fair" or not is irrelevant. Work in a different industry that doesn't have such expectations.

Nothing will ever be perfectly fair, anyway. In only a few companies do men get paternity leave, and it isn't a legal requirement.



-- Edited by huskerbb on Monday 16th of May 2016 01:21:28 PM

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FNW wrote:

I remember a line from ""Grease" that always stuck in my head. "Beauty is pain."

Women have always done a lot of things to improve their appearance. A lot that isn't good for them. Think breast implants, botox, rib removal, etc. Even the corset is making a comeback. I wonder if people, and by people I mean employers, would be as concerned about enhancing appearance if women in general, didn't make it such an issue of it themselves.


 But I feel that most women take their cues from the media...as far as what the "ideal" woman should look like.

Can you imagine what would be said about Marilyn Monroe's body today?

I wouldn't do any of the things you mentioned, but that's obviously not true for all women.

flan



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I don't know, flan, a lot of people think Kim K. has a great body, (especially, Kim K. herself) but I think it looks horribly fat and out of proportion.

I would not do those things either. Maybe a tummy tuck to tighten up after having had kids if I were younger, but not at this point.

And I agree with husker. It is what it is.

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When I worked in retail, I guess I had about 10 pairs of these in different colors.

shoes_ib24359.jpg

Wore them all day long. 

The right shoe is comfortable. 

 

But I get not being able to wear certain shoes. I can't wear anything now but slip on athletic shoes and some flip flops.

I hate it.



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My very chic British hairdresser had foot surgery last year and had to wear a boot for while. And now she can't wear heals and hates it. But she has managed to wear stylish footwear and make do.

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lilyofcourse wrote:

When I worked in retail, I guess I had about 10 pairs of these in different colors.

shoes_ib24359.jpg

Wore them all day long. 

The right shoe is comfortable. 

 

But I get not being able to wear certain shoes. I can't wear anything now but slip on athletic shoes and some flip flops.

I hate it.


 I don't consider those high heels. Those are pumps.



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FNW wrote:

My very chic British hairdresser had foot surgery last year and had to wear a boot for while. And now she can't wear heals and hates it. But she has managed to wear stylish footwear and make do.


I think it goes with the job.  My hairdresser had carple tunnel surgery & back last October she had foot surgery & had to wear a boot & go through PT.  She left the salon & now works from her basement.  She wears running shoes at home now.   



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Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

When I worked in retail, I guess I had about 10 pairs of these in different colors.

shoes_ib24359.jpg

Wore them all day long. 

The right shoe is comfortable. 

 

But I get not being able to wear certain shoes. I can't wear anything now but slip on athletic shoes and some flip flops.

I hate it.


 I don't consider those high heels. Those are pumps.


 You don't consider pumps high heels?  When they mentioned requiring high heels in an office setting, pumps came to my mind.  

 



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FNW wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

When I worked in retail, I guess I had about 10 pairs of these in different colors.

shoes_ib24359.jpg

Wore them all day long. 

The right shoe is comfortable. 

 

But I get not being able to wear certain shoes. I can't wear anything now but slip on athletic shoes and some flip flops.

I hate it.


 I don't consider those high heels. Those are pumps.


 You don't consider pumps high heels?  When they mentioned requiring high heels in an office setting, pumps came to my mind.  

 


 No. Unless it's 3 inches or above, I don't consider it high heels.



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Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

When I worked in retail, I guess I had about 10 pairs of these in different colors.

shoes_ib24359.jpg

Wore them all day long. 

The right shoe is comfortable. 

 

But I get not being able to wear certain shoes. I can't wear anything now but slip on athletic shoes and some flip flops.

I hate it.


 I don't consider those high heels. Those are pumps.


 Exactly, those are office and work dress shoes.

 



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My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

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FNW wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

When I worked in retail, I guess I had about 10 pairs of these in different colors.

shoes_ib24359.jpg

Wore them all day long. 

The right shoe is comfortable. 

 

But I get not being able to wear certain shoes. I can't wear anything now but slip on athletic shoes and some flip flops.

I hate it.


 I don't consider those high heels. Those are pumps.


 You don't consider pumps high heels?  When they mentioned requiring high heels in an office setting, pumps came to my mind.  

 


 Me, too.



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I never took of my Nike's today! Ha!

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FNW wrote:

I don't know, flan, a lot of people think Kim K. has a great body, (especially, Kim K. herself) but I think it looks horribly fat and out of proportion.

I would not do those things either. Maybe a tummy tuck to tighten up after having had kids if I were younger, but not at this point.

And I agree with husker. It is what it is.


 Most people see that as well.

Cosmetic surgery is a multi-billion dollar industry, and the VAST majority of patients are women.

flan



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According to high-fashion shoe websites like Jimmy Choo and Gucci, a "low heel" is considered less than 2.5 inches (6.4 centimeters), while heels between 2.5 and 3.5 inches (6.4 and 8.9 cm) are considered "mid heels", and anything over that is considered a "high heel". The apparel industry would appear to take a simpler view: the term "high heels" covers heels ranging from 2 to 5 inches (5.1 to 12.7 cm) or more. Extremely high-heeled shoes, such as those exceeding 6 inches (15 cm), strictly speaking, are no longer considered apparel but rather something akin to "jewelry for the feet". They are worn for display or the enjoyment of the wearer.

flan

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flan327 wrote:

According to high-fashion shoe websites like Jimmy Choo and Gucci, a "low heel" is considered less than 2.5 inches (6.4 centimeters), while heels between 2.5 and 3.5 inches (6.4 and 8.9 cm) are considered "mid heels", and anything over that is considered a "high heel". The apparel industry would appear to take a simpler view: the term "high heels" covers heels ranging from 2 to 5 inches (5.1 to 12.7 cm) or more. Extremely high-heeled shoes, such as those exceeding 6 inches (15 cm), strictly speaking, are no longer considered apparel but rather something akin to "jewelry for the feet". They are worn for display or the enjoyment of the wearer.

flan


I'm in very good company.



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Itty bitty's Grammy

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Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:

According to high-fashion shoe websites like Jimmy Choo and Gucci, a "low heel" is considered less than 2.5 inches (6.4 centimeters), while heels between 2.5 and 3.5 inches (6.4 and 8.9 cm) are considered "mid heels", and anything over that is considered a "high heel". The apparel industry would appear to take a simpler view: the term "high heels" covers heels ranging from 2 to 5 inches (5.1 to 12.7 cm) or more. Extremely high-heeled shoes, such as those exceeding 6 inches (15 cm), strictly speaking, are no longer considered apparel but rather something akin to "jewelry for the feet". They are worn for display or the enjoyment of the wearer.

flan


I'm in very good company.


 True that!

evileye

flan



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