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Post Info TOPIC: Condoing transgenderism is like agreeing with anorexics that they are fat.


On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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Condoning Transgenderism Is Like Agreeing with Anorexics That They Are Fat

By Joseph J. Horton | May 19, 2016 | 11:12 AM EDT
Members of the "M*A*S*H" cast gather around to bury Klinger's yellow dress in a foot-locker time capsule during taping of the show's final episode in January 1983. The 2 1/2-hour finale was the highest-rated television show in Nielsen Media Research history, and still hasn't been topped. From left, are cast members Loretta Swit, Mike Farrell, Jamie Farr, Harry Morgan, Alan Alda and William Christopher. (AP Photo/Red McLendon)

In M*A*S*H, one of America’s longest-running TV shows, the beloved character Max Klinger dressed as a woman. Klinger hoped to get a so-called “Section 8,” which is a mental-health discharge in the military. Everyone who watched the show when it ran in prime time understood that a man who thought he was a woman had a mental-health challenge. According to the script, not even Klinger himself really believed he was a woman. Today we are confronted with the challenge of how to respond to individuals who truly believe their mental experience of gender does not match their biology.

Thus teen girls are being told that they must share locker rooms with people who are biologically male. We are told that we need to be inclusive. But where is the concern for the privacy and comfort of those who do not want to change clothes next to people who are objectively a different gender?

A solution to the social aspect of this challenge would be for transgender individuals to use single-stall family restrooms and changing facilities. There are many people for whom these restrooms are helpful, including people with small children and individuals with special needs who require assistance from a family member. However, advocates for transgender people typically oppose this solution. They claim that this makes transgender individuals feel excluded and that inclusion requires people to use the restroom, locker room, or shower that is consistent with each person’s gender identification. We are told that people who are uncomfortable with this should stop discriminating.

Even if it made sense for the federal government to dictate bathroom usage, the decree issued recently by the Obama administration would have missed the mark. While making the claim of inclusiveness and compassion, it disregards privacy and safety concerns of many citizens and does nothing to acknowledge the real challenge that transgender individuals face.

The claim is that one’s mental experience determines the truth. If one feels like a woman, one must be a woman; physiology and genetics do not matter. But one’s mental experience does not determine truth. A noncontroversial example is the Muller-Lyer Illusion. When viewing the two lines, one appears to be clearly longer than the other, even though the length of both lines is exactly the same. The feeling that one line is longer than the other is experienced, but this is misleading. It is possible to have powerful and persistent feelings that are objectively false. Similarly, one’s gender identity does not determine the truth. Gender is biologically determined. Surgery and hormones may change external appearances, but the genetic reality remains.

In other mental-health contexts, we readily accept that people’s mental experiences may not reflect reality. People with anorexia believe they are fat despite being dangerously underweight. It would be cruel, not helpful, to agree with people who have anorexia that they are fat. People with depression often feel worthless. Yet we do not assure people with depression that they are in fact worthless. We help people with depression to recognize their worth.

People with gender identities that do not match their biology should be treated with compassion and respect. They too are people of value. They are experiencing genuine pain and confusion. In Sweden, where most citizens are open and accepting of the belief that gender is psychological rather than biological, a 30-year longitudinal study has been completed. Individuals who underwent sex reassignment had a much higher suicide rate and were more frequently admitted for inpatient psychiatric treatment than the general population. Transitioning to the gender with which they identified did not eliminate pain for these individuals, even in a tolerant culture. In the United States, Johns Hopkins University pioneered sex-change surgery, but discontinued it decades ago because it failed to resolve the inner struggles of those who made the transition. There are many people who have transitioned to presenting as another gender who have failed to find healing and regretted the transition (see www.sexchangeregret.com).

Americans loved the Max Klinger character. We would have loved him even if he really struggled with gender dysphoria. One way we can love real people who are transgender is to provide restroom and locker-room facilities that meet their privacy needs while respecting the privacy needs of others. But addressing privacy needs fails to address the mental-health challenge. Thus, also critical is promoting mental-health services and research to help those who do indeed suffer. Quality, evidence-based therapy should be available. Assuming that personal experience is always truth is inconsistent with promoting mental health and creates larger societal problems; claiming personal experience as truth does not provide healing for many with gender dysphoria.

Dr. Joseph J. Horton is professor of psychology at Grove City College and the Working Group Coordinator for Marriage and Family with The Center for Vision & Values. He is also a researcher on Positive Youth Development.

Editor’s Note: This piece was originally published by The Center for Vision & Values at Grove City College.



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Bring back section 8.

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"Transitioning to the gender with which they identified did not eliminate pain for these individuals, even in a tolerant culture"

Well that is interesting and certainly at odds with what is believed to be true here. I wonder if we have stats for this in North America?

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If you agree with and support an anorexics belief that they ARE fat, they might, quite possible die if they continue being anorexic.

If you support a trans-gendered persons belief that they are transgender, they won't die.

The comparisons are off and unrelated.

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On the contrary, apple. The rate of suicides in transgenders that actually get sex reassignment surgery increases dramatically.

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apple wrote:




If you agree with and support an anorexics belief that they ARE fat, they might, quite possible die if they continue being anorexic.

If you support a trans-gendered persons belief that they are transgender, they won't die.

The comparisons are off and unrelated.


 Not true. 

The Transgender person is 4 times more likely to commit suicide than their peer counterparts. 



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M.C. Lampe couldn't take any more bullying. Not one more homophobic taunt. Not one more classmate refusing to sit at a nearby desk or change clothes within view at gym. So the devastated 9th grader brought a knife to school and vowed: "If someone else says something, I'm done."

Someone did say something — and Lampe went to the high school bathroom and slit both wrists.

Suicide attempts are alarmingly common among transgender individuals such as Lampe; 41% try to kill themselves at some point in their lives, compared with 4.6% of the general public. The numbers come from a study by the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention and the Williams Institute, which analyzed results from the National Transgender Discrimination Survey. Researchers are preparing to launch another version of the online survey on Wednesday.

More than a dozen other surveys of transgender people worldwide since 2001 have found similarly high rates, and the problem has grown more visible since Caitlyn Jenner's coming out raised awareness about transgender health issues overall.

"The way we treat trans people, especially trans women, is terrible," says Lampe, now a 24-year-old graduate student at the University of Louisville who identifies as a genderqueer and transgender. "It's not surprising they don't feel they belong in the world."

That's borne out by the research, which shows those who are harassed, bullied, victimized, discriminated against or rejected by family and friends are more likely to attempt suicide. Some doctors and mental health experts say prevention begins with acceptance and kindness, especially by parents.

"The answer is love your kid as is," says pediatrician Michelle Forcier of Rhode Island, an expert on transgender children on the faculty of Brown University's medical school. "Your love and acceptance is the best medicine your kids can ever get.

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Blah blah blah...no, I'm not going to approve of my child's mental illness.


I don't accept my BIL being gay either.

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Ohfour wrote:

Blah blah blah...no, I'm not going to approve of my child's mental illness.


I don't accept my BIL being gay either.


 How's that working out for you?

flan



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apple wrote:




If you agree with and support an anorexics belief that they ARE fat, they might, quite possible die if they continue being anorexic.

If you support a trans-gendered persons belief that they are transgender, they won't die.

The comparisons are off and unrelated.


 You'll never convince anyone here. Blinders on? Check!

flan



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flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:

Blah blah blah...no, I'm not going to approve of my child's mental illness.


I don't accept my BIL being gay either.


 How's that working out for you?

flan


Totally fine! Always has... 



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Itty bitty's Grammy

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Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:

Blah blah blah...no, I'm not going to approve of my child's mental illness.


I don't accept my BIL being gay either.


 How's that working out for you?

flan


Totally fine! Always has... 


 And, I'm sure knowing you don't "accept" his being gay has mattered not one iota to him. You honestly don't understand how offensive that statement is...

flan



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Hooker

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flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:

Blah blah blah...no, I'm not going to approve of my child's mental illness.


I don't accept my BIL being gay either.


 How's that working out for you?

flan


Totally fine! Always has... 


 And, I'm sure knowing you don't "accept" his being gay has mattered not one iota to him. You honestly don't understand how offensive that statement is...

flan


Well, he still wants to visit a few times a year.  And we actually have a really great relationship.  When he's not being a dick.  He loves me to death.  We text almost daily... 



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flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:

Blah blah blah...no, I'm not going to approve of my child's mental illness.


I don't accept my BIL being gay either.


 How's that working out for you?

flan


Totally fine! Always has... 


 And, I'm sure knowing you don't "accept" his being gay has mattered not one iota to him. You honestly don't understand how offensive that statement is...

flan


Not everyone is weak and a victim and pout and cry when they get their widdle feelings hurt.  Some people have a life... 



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flan327 wrote:
apple wrote:




If you agree with and support an anorexics belief that they ARE fat, they might, quite possible die if they continue being anorexic.

If you support a trans-gendered persons belief that they are transgender, they won't die.

The comparisons are off and unrelated.


 You'll never convince anyone here. Blinders on? Check!

flan


 Oh I know. :) 

 



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apple wrote:

M.C. Lampe couldn't take any more bullying. Not one more homophobic taunt. Not one more classmate refusing to sit at a nearby desk or change clothes within view at gym. So the devastated 9th grader brought a knife to school and vowed: "If someone else says something, I'm done."

Someone did say something — and Lampe went to the high school bathroom and slit both wrists.

Suicide attempts are alarmingly common among transgender individuals such as Lampe; 41% try to kill themselves at some point in their lives, compared with 4.6% of the general public. The numbers come from a study by the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention and the Williams Institute, which analyzed results from the National Transgender Discrimination Survey. Researchers are preparing to launch another version of the online survey on Wednesday.

More than a dozen other surveys of transgender people worldwide since 2001 have found similarly high rates, and the problem has grown more visible since Caitlyn Jenner's coming out raised awareness about transgender health issues overall.

"The way we treat trans people, especially trans women, is terrible," says Lampe, now a 24-year-old graduate student at the University of Louisville who identifies as a genderqueer and transgender. "It's not surprising they don't feel they belong in the world."

That's borne out by the research, which shows those who are harassed, bullied, victimized, discriminated against or rejected by family and friends are more likely to attempt suicide. Some doctors and mental health experts say prevention begins with acceptance and kindness, especially by parents.

"The answer is love your kid as is," says pediatrician Michelle Forcier of Rhode Island, an expert on transgender children on the faculty of Brown University's medical school. "Your love and acceptance is the best medicine your kids can ever get.


 He should have been receiving help for his mental illness and then maybe he wouldn't have killed himself.

You CANNOT control the world - you can only control yourself.  And you can't blame the world for your own actions. 



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Itty bitty's Grammy

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Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:

Blah blah blah...no, I'm not going to approve of my child's mental illness.


I don't accept my BIL being gay either.


 How's that working out for you?

flan


Totally fine! Always has... 


 And, I'm sure knowing you don't "accept" his being gay has mattered not one iota to him. You honestly don't understand how offensive that statement is...

flan


Not everyone is weak and a victim and pout and cry when they get their widdle feelings hurt.  Some people have a life... 


 So, the fact that he is a HOMOSEXUAL & you DENY the truth = "widdle feelings hurt."

Wow.

flan



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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:

Blah blah blah...no, I'm not going to approve of my child's mental illness.


I don't accept my BIL being gay either.


 How's that working out for you?

flan


Totally fine! Always has... 


 And, I'm sure knowing you don't "accept" his being gay has mattered not one iota to him. You honestly don't understand how offensive that statement is...

flan


Not everyone is weak and a victim and pout and cry when they get their widdle feelings hurt.  Some people have a life... 


 So, the fact that he is a HOMOSEXUAL & you DENY the truth = "widdle feelings hurt."

Wow.

flan


 flan, you play the victim enough for yourself, please don't bother to do it for people you don't even know.



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flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:

Blah blah blah...no, I'm not going to approve of my child's mental illness.


I don't accept my BIL being gay either.


 How's that working out for you?

flan


Totally fine! Always has... 


 And, I'm sure knowing you don't "accept" his being gay has mattered not one iota to him. You honestly don't understand how offensive that statement is...

flan


Not everyone is weak and a victim and pout and cry when they get their widdle feelings hurt.  Some people have a life... 


 So, the fact that he is a HOMOSEXUAL & you DENY the truth = "widdle feelings hurt."

Wow.

flan


You sure do like to play the victim for other people. Why don't you worry about yourself?  You really should get some help... 



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Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:

Blah blah blah...no, I'm not going to approve of my child's mental illness.


I don't accept my BIL being gay either.


 How's that working out for you?

flan


Totally fine! Always has... 


 And, I'm sure knowing you don't "accept" his being gay has mattered not one iota to him. You honestly don't understand how offensive that statement is...

flan


Not everyone is weak and a victim and pout and cry when they get their widdle feelings hurt.  Some people have a life... 


 So, the fact that he is a HOMOSEXUAL & you DENY the truth = "widdle feelings hurt."

Wow.

flan


 flan, you play the victim enough for yourself, please don't bother to do it for people you don't even know.


Right?  It's not enough that SHE's a victim, she has to defend people she doesn't even KNOW!  I would hate to live my life like that, in perpetual angst.   



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Right.
One of my gay friends actually is against gay marriage go figure. And he doesn't feel victimized!

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While I heartily disagree with the whole sharing bathrooms thing, I'm not sure I'm on board with transgenderism being a mental illness. I mean, think about it, people are born with stuff wrong with their bodies all the time, no arms, extra limbs, etc. And if they have the means they get those defects corrected.
So it's possible that some people are truly born with their physical gender not matching up to what their brain is telling them. I think it probably legitimately happens WAY less than it's portrayed, but I think it could be the case sometimes.






-- Edited by VetteGirl on Friday 20th of May 2016 01:48:59 PM

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Itty bitty's Grammy

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Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:

Blah blah blah...no, I'm not going to approve of my child's mental illness.


I don't accept my BIL being gay either.


 How's that working out for you?

flan


Totally fine! Always has... 


 And, I'm sure knowing you don't "accept" his being gay has mattered not one iota to him. You honestly don't understand how offensive that statement is...

flan


Not everyone is weak and a victim and pout and cry when they get their widdle feelings hurt.  Some people have a life... 


 So, the fact that he is a HOMOSEXUAL & you DENY the truth = "widdle feelings hurt."

Wow.

flan


You sure do like to play the victim for other people. Why don't you worry about yourself?  You really should get some help... 


 Who mentioned "victim" first in this thread?

Oh, THAT'S right...

flan



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I think I relayed this here, but it's worth mentioning again.
The gays and transgendered do not want equal rights, they want special rights.

My parent company offered same sex health insurance. One the law was passed that they could marry, my company gave them 90 days to get married or the partner would be removed from the insurance rolls.

Oh, LORD!!!!! They went NUTS! How DARE anyone tell them that they have to get married. They shouldn't be FORCED to get married to get insurance. Yet, that's what has happened to straight people for decades. They didn't want equal, the wanted special treatment. And it came back to bite them in the arse...

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Hooker

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flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:

Blah blah blah...no, I'm not going to approve of my child's mental illness.


I don't accept my BIL being gay either.


 How's that working out for you?

flan


Totally fine! Always has... 


 And, I'm sure knowing you don't "accept" his being gay has mattered not one iota to him. You honestly don't understand how offensive that statement is...

flan


Not everyone is weak and a victim and pout and cry when they get their widdle feelings hurt.  Some people have a life... 


 So, the fact that he is a HOMOSEXUAL & you DENY the truth = "widdle feelings hurt."

Wow.

flan


You sure do like to play the victim for other people. Why don't you worry about yourself?  You really should get some help... 


 Who mentioned "victim" first in this thread?

Oh, THAT'S right...

flan


And I will mention it every time I see fit.  Until you realize that it's not appealing.   



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VetteGirl wrote:

While I heartily disagree with the whole sharing bathrooms thing, I'm not sure I'm on board with transgenderism being a mental illness. I mean, think about it, people are born with stuff wrong with their bodies all the time, no arms, extra limbs, etc. And if they have the means they get those defects corrected.
So it's possible that some people are truly born with their physical gender not matching up to what their brain is telling them. I think it probably legitimately happens WAY less than it's portrayed, but I think it could be the case sometimes.






-- Edited by VetteGirl on Friday 20th of May 2016 01:48:59 PM


 If there's a medical reason for it, like the wrong chromosomes or actual birth defect - that should be apparent to a doctor.  

It's like any other mental illness, I would think.  First, determine if there is a medical cause and treat it if possible, if not, they seek help from a mental health professional.

And even if it IS physical rather than mental, therapy to deal with the issue would still be a good idea since the rate of suicide is so high with transgenders.



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People should also realizing how damaging it can be to tell them it's perfectly fine and normal, when they don't feel perfectly fine and normal. Then, on top of the confusion of their gender, they feel guilt because they don't embrace it and consider it normal.



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Owl drink to that!

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Lawyerlady wrote:

People should also realizing how damaging it can be to tell them it's perfectly fine and normal, when they don't feel perfectly fine and normal. Then, on top of the confusion of their gender, they feel guilt because they don't embrace it and consider it normal.


 This is a good point and very true



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I was at a seminar a few years back about teen suicide.

We were told to never tell a depressed teen, to "buck up, this is the best time of your life".

When someone (especially a teen with effed up hormones (normal for teens)) hears that, they think their lives won't get any better.

Totally makes sense...

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Itty bitty's Grammy

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Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:

Blah blah blah...no, I'm not going to approve of my child's mental illness.


I don't accept my BIL being gay either.


 How's that working out for you?

flan


Totally fine! Always has... 


 And, I'm sure knowing you don't "accept" his being gay has mattered not one iota to him. You honestly don't understand how offensive that statement is...

flan


Not everyone is weak and a victim and pout and cry when they get their widdle feelings hurt.  Some people have a life... 


 So, the fact that he is a HOMOSEXUAL & you DENY the truth = "widdle feelings hurt."

Wow.

flan


You sure do like to play the victim for other people. Why don't you worry about yourself?  You really should get some help... 


 Who mentioned "victim" first in this thread?

Oh, THAT'S right...

flan


And I will mention it every time I see fit.  Until you realize that it's not appealing.   


 Oh, I do realize the value of what you say...I figured that out months ago.

flan



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Itty bitty's Grammy

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Ohfour wrote:

I was at a seminar a few years back about teen suicide.

We were told to never tell a depressed teen, to "buck up, this is the best time of your life".

When someone (especially a teen with effed up hormones (normal for teens)) hears that, they think their lives won't get any better.

Totally makes sense...


 Of course it makes sense. Why would anyone refuse to acknowledge another person's suicidal feelings?

flan



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Lawyerlady wrote:
apple wrote:

M.C. Lampe couldn't take any more bullying. Not one more homophobic taunt. Not one more classmate refusing to sit at a nearby desk or change clothes within view at gym. So the devastated 9th grader brought a knife to school and vowed: "If someone else says something, I'm done."

Someone did say something — and Lampe went to the high school bathroom and slit both wrists.

Suicide attempts are alarmingly common among transgender individuals such as Lampe; 41% try to kill themselves at some point in their lives, compared with 4.6% of the general public. The numbers come from a study by the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention and the Williams Institute, which analyzed results from the National Transgender Discrimination Survey. Researchers are preparing to launch another version of the online survey on Wednesday.

More than a dozen other surveys of transgender people worldwide since 2001 have found similarly high rates, and the problem has grown more visible since Caitlyn Jenner's coming out raised awareness about transgender health issues overall.

"The way we treat trans people, especially trans women, is terrible," says Lampe, now a 24-year-old graduate student at the University of Louisville who identifies as a genderqueer and transgender. "It's not surprising they don't feel they belong in the world."

That's borne out by the research, which shows those who are harassed, bullied, victimized, discriminated against or rejected by family and friends are more likely to attempt suicide. Some doctors and mental health experts say prevention begins with acceptance and kindness, especially by parents.

"The answer is love your kid as is," says pediatrician Michelle Forcier of Rhode Island, an expert on transgender children on the faculty of Brown University's medical school. "Your love and acceptance is the best medicine your kids can ever get.


 He should have been receiving help for his mental illness and then maybe he wouldn't have killed himself.

You CANNOT control the world - you can only control yourself.  And you can't blame the world for your own actions. 


 If as you say it is mental illness, it is not easily controllable. Do you think it is okay to discriminate based on "mental illness"?



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apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
apple wrote:

M.C. Lampe couldn't take any more bullying. Not one more homophobic taunt. Not one more classmate refusing to sit at a nearby desk or change clothes within view at gym. So the devastated 9th grader brought a knife to school and vowed: "If someone else says something, I'm done."

Someone did say something — and Lampe went to the high school bathroom and slit both wrists.

Suicide attempts are alarmingly common among transgender individuals such as Lampe; 41% try to kill themselves at some point in their lives, compared with 4.6% of the general public. The numbers come from a study by the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention and the Williams Institute, which analyzed results from the National Transgender Discrimination Survey. Researchers are preparing to launch another version of the online survey on Wednesday.

More than a dozen other surveys of transgender people worldwide since 2001 have found similarly high rates, and the problem has grown more visible since Caitlyn Jenner's coming out raised awareness about transgender health issues overall.

"The way we treat trans people, especially trans women, is terrible," says Lampe, now a 24-year-old graduate student at the University of Louisville who identifies as a genderqueer and transgender. "It's not surprising they don't feel they belong in the world."

That's borne out by the research, which shows those who are harassed, bullied, victimized, discriminated against or rejected by family and friends are more likely to attempt suicide. Some doctors and mental health experts say prevention begins with acceptance and kindness, especially by parents.

"The answer is love your kid as is," says pediatrician Michelle Forcier of Rhode Island, an expert on transgender children on the faculty of Brown University's medical school. "Your love and acceptance is the best medicine your kids can ever get.


 He should have been receiving help for his mental illness and then maybe he wouldn't have killed himself.

You CANNOT control the world - you can only control yourself.  And you can't blame the world for your own actions. 


 If as you say it is mental illness, it is not easily controllable. Do you think it is okay to discriminate based on "mental illness"?


Absolutely.  We do it every single day... 



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apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
apple wrote:

M.C. Lampe couldn't take any more bullying. Not one more homophobic taunt. Not one more classmate refusing to sit at a nearby desk or change clothes within view at gym. So the devastated 9th grader brought a knife to school and vowed: "If someone else says something, I'm done."

Someone did say something — and Lampe went to the high school bathroom and slit both wrists.

Suicide attempts are alarmingly common among transgender individuals such as Lampe; 41% try to kill themselves at some point in their lives, compared with 4.6% of the general public. The numbers come from a study by the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention and the Williams Institute, which analyzed results from the National Transgender Discrimination Survey. Researchers are preparing to launch another version of the online survey on Wednesday.

More than a dozen other surveys of transgender people worldwide since 2001 have found similarly high rates, and the problem has grown more visible since Caitlyn Jenner's coming out raised awareness about transgender health issues overall.

"The way we treat trans people, especially trans women, is terrible," says Lampe, now a 24-year-old graduate student at the University of Louisville who identifies as a genderqueer and transgender. "It's not surprising they don't feel they belong in the world."

That's borne out by the research, which shows those who are harassed, bullied, victimized, discriminated against or rejected by family and friends are more likely to attempt suicide. Some doctors and mental health experts say prevention begins with acceptance and kindness, especially by parents.

"The answer is love your kid as is," says pediatrician Michelle Forcier of Rhode Island, an expert on transgender children on the faculty of Brown University's medical school. "Your love and acceptance is the best medicine your kids can ever get.


 He should have been receiving help for his mental illness and then maybe he wouldn't have killed himself.

You CANNOT control the world - you can only control yourself.  And you can't blame the world for your own actions. 


 If as you say it is mental illness, it is not easily controllable. Do you think it is okay to discriminate based on "mental illness"?


 People with disabilities are entitled to reasonable accommodation.  It doesn't mean the world changes for them, it means the world makes accommodations for them where possible and it doesn't unreasonably infringe on the rights of others.  

 



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Lawyerlady wrote:
apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
apple wrote:

M.C. Lampe couldn't take any more bullying. Not one more homophobic taunt. Not one more classmate refusing to sit at a nearby desk or change clothes within view at gym. So the devastated 9th grader brought a knife to school and vowed: "If someone else says something, I'm done."

Someone did say something — and Lampe went to the high school bathroom and slit both wrists.

Suicide attempts are alarmingly common among transgender individuals such as Lampe; 41% try to kill themselves at some point in their lives, compared with 4.6% of the general public. The numbers come from a study by the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention and the Williams Institute, which analyzed results from the National Transgender Discrimination Survey. Researchers are preparing to launch another version of the online survey on Wednesday.

More than a dozen other surveys of transgender people worldwide since 2001 have found similarly high rates, and the problem has grown more visible since Caitlyn Jenner's coming out raised awareness about transgender health issues overall.

"The way we treat trans people, especially trans women, is terrible," says Lampe, now a 24-year-old graduate student at the University of Louisville who identifies as a genderqueer and transgender. "It's not surprising they don't feel they belong in the world."

That's borne out by the research, which shows those who are harassed, bullied, victimized, discriminated against or rejected by family and friends are more likely to attempt suicide. Some doctors and mental health experts say prevention begins with acceptance and kindness, especially by parents.

"The answer is love your kid as is," says pediatrician Michelle Forcier of Rhode Island, an expert on transgender children on the faculty of Brown University's medical school. "Your love and acceptance is the best medicine your kids can ever get.


 He should have been receiving help for his mental illness and then maybe he wouldn't have killed himself.

You CANNOT control the world - you can only control yourself.  And you can't blame the world for your own actions. 


 If as you say it is mental illness, it is not easily controllable. Do you think it is okay to discriminate based on "mental illness"?


 People with disabilities are entitled to reasonable accommodation.  It doesn't mean the world changes for them, it means the world makes accommodations for them where possible and it doesn't unreasonably infringe on the rights of others.  

 


 Accommodations can't help but have an effect on the status quo, and I'm fine with that.



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Are there support groups for the parents and families of transgender people?



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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
apple wrote:

M.C. Lampe couldn't take any more bullying. Not one more homophobic taunt. Not one more classmate refusing to sit at a nearby desk or change clothes within view at gym. So the devastated 9th grader brought a knife to school and vowed: "If someone else says something, I'm done."

Someone did say something — and Lampe went to the high school bathroom and slit both wrists.

Suicide attempts are alarmingly common among transgender individuals such as Lampe; 41% try to kill themselves at some point in their lives, compared with 4.6% of the general public. The numbers come from a study by the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention and the Williams Institute, which analyzed results from the National Transgender Discrimination Survey. Researchers are preparing to launch another version of the online survey on Wednesday.

More than a dozen other surveys of transgender people worldwide since 2001 have found similarly high rates, and the problem has grown more visible since Caitlyn Jenner's coming out raised awareness about transgender health issues overall.

"The way we treat trans people, especially trans women, is terrible," says Lampe, now a 24-year-old graduate student at the University of Louisville who identifies as a genderqueer and transgender. "It's not surprising they don't feel they belong in the world."

That's borne out by the research, which shows those who are harassed, bullied, victimized, discriminated against or rejected by family and friends are more likely to attempt suicide. Some doctors and mental health experts say prevention begins with acceptance and kindness, especially by parents.

"The answer is love your kid as is," says pediatrician Michelle Forcier of Rhode Island, an expert on transgender children on the faculty of Brown University's medical school. "Your love and acceptance is the best medicine your kids can ever get.


 He should have been receiving help for his mental illness and then maybe he wouldn't have killed himself.

You CANNOT control the world - you can only control yourself.  And you can't blame the world for your own actions. 


 If as you say it is mental illness, it is not easily controllable. Do you think it is okay to discriminate based on "mental illness"?


 People with disabilities are entitled to reasonable accommodation.  It doesn't mean the world changes for them, it means the world makes accommodations for them where possible and it doesn't unreasonably infringe on the rights of others.  

 


 Accommodations can't help but have an effect on the status quo, and I'm fine with that.


 An accommodation would be a separate unisex bathroom, rather than requiring entrance to the general bathrooms.  You are ok with that?



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I think I relayed this here, but it's worth mentioning again.
The gays and transgendered do not want equal rights, they want special rights.

My parent company offered same sex health insurance. One the law was passed that they could marry, my company gave them 90 days to get married or the partner would be removed from the insurance rolls.

Oh, LORD!!!!! They went NUTS! How DARE anyone tell them that they have to get married. They shouldn't be FORCED to get married to get insurance. Yet, that's what has happened to straight people for decades. They didn't want equal, the wanted special treatment. And it came back to bite them in the arse...
- Ohfour

_________________________________

That was definitely a case (or cases) of people wanting "special rights". However, most gay people that wanted legal marriage are fine with that type of situation as your company put forth ("it's legal to marry now, so get married or dropped from spousal benefits").

Also relevant: Just because some ruin things doesn't mean everyone is bad. Jails are full of Christian criminals, that doesn't mean all of us that are Christians are bad, does it?

On the subject of the OP, I disagree with the comparison to anorexia, and I agree with VetteGirl. We treat people who are born with missing parts by adding the parts when possible, we treat people born with extra parts by removing the extra parts when possible. Transitioning from one sex to the other is much more analogous to that.

Regarding transgenders in the bathrooms, I don't think I can condone transgenders in the bathroom that doesn't go along with their physically observable sex (once they have had the surgery and look like the gender they feel like, it will be a different story, obviously). If we ever move to unisex restrooms and locker rooms, then it will automatically become a moot point.

And I don't think "God made a mistake" when it comes to transgenders any more than I think "God is punishing them" when a couple's child is born with some horrible birth defect or disease. I think God knows our souls and our souls are what He cares about. Our bodies are transitory, and therefore not something He worries about in His grand plan.

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On the subject of the OP, I disagree with the comparison to anorexia, and I agree with VetteGirl. We treat people who are born with missing parts by adding the parts when possible, we treat people born with extra parts by removing the extra parts when possible. Transitioning from one sex to the other is much more analogous to that.

flan



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flan327 wrote:

On the subject of the OP, I disagree with the comparison to anorexia, and I agree with VetteGirl. We treat people who are born with missing parts by adding the parts when possible, we treat people born with extra parts by removing the extra parts when possible. Transitioning from one sex to the other is much more analogous to that.

flan


 Not at all flan.  All the surgery in the world on a male does not make you a female.  Yeah, you can attach some breast implants and lop off the man bits, but that does not make him a woman.  Bruce/Cait is not a woman simply because he dresses as a female and has breast implants.  He can pretend that is reality but it isn't.

But, let's assume there is something askew here.  Why do you accept that the Body is wrong and the brain is right?  Has it occurred to you that maybe it is the other way around?  Maybe the body is fine and the brain has issues?

  Or, instead, maybe those 2 things need to find a way to coexist.  OK, you don't "feel" male, in your male body.  But, who is to say what you should feel like?  So maybe you need to find a way to accept your reality versus a lot of pie in the sky promises from rich plastic surgeons who are doing nothing to change you from the inside?  Why not find a way to coexist with yourself without whacking and lopping and injecting?



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And let's face it.

If a man lives as a woman for 20 years, he still isn't going to know what it is to be a woman.

Same with a woman wanting to be a man.

Because you just are not the opposite sex/gender.

And it's insane to think they ever could.



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It is insanity. We think we can just wish a new reality. That somehow by wishing it and wanting it, that it makes it so. That is a very childish and immature approach to life. Sorry, that is not reality. You can paint it, alter it, cut it, add, subtract. You are not a woman if you are a biological male. You can pretend. You can tell yourself that. You can even use the force of law to force others to go along with your delusion, but you simply aren't.
It's the same thing with gay marriage. YOu can pretend. You can get a piece of paper to declare it. But, that is not a marriage in the eyes of God. Pretend all you want. It's your life so i guess you can. And, i guess you can force others to play along but pretending that a dog is a cat doesn't make it so.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

It is insanity. We think we can just wish a new reality. That somehow by wishing it and wanting it, that it makes it so. That is a very childish and immature approach to life. Sorry, that is not reality. You can paint it, alter it, cut it, add, subtract. You are not a woman if you are a biological male. You can pretend. You can tell yourself that. You can even use the force of law to force others to go along with your delusion, but you simply aren't.
It's the same thing with gay marriage. YOu can pretend. You can get a piece of paper to declare it. But, that is not a marriage in the eyes of God. Pretend all you want. It's your life so i guess you can. And, i guess you can force others to play along but pretending that a dog is a cat doesn't make it so.


 Except for the fact that we now know much more about brain development and how gender is determined.

And we can each find research to support our opinions.

flan



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But, you won't acknowledge any other research that doesn't support YOUR version now do you? Your version that the body is wrong and not the brain.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

But, you won't acknowledge any other research that doesn't support YOUR version now do you? Your version that the body is wrong and not the brain.


 Tit for tat...LOL

flan



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I wasn't sure I could say "TIT."

But I can!!!!!!!

flan

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Tits for Tim!

Boobs for Bob!

Breast for Brent!

Racks for Randy!


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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Tits for Tim!

Boobs for Bob!

Breast for Brent!

Racks for Randy!


 Hooters for husker!

evileye

flan



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cannot understand why sane people would patronize/pander to those who are mentally ill



-- Edited by burns07 on Saturday 21st of May 2016 12:51:27 PM

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