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Post Info TOPIC: High School Ends Tradition of Graduation Prayer After Student Invoked Jesus Christ Last Year


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High School Ends Tradition of Graduation Prayer After Student Invoked Jesus Christ Last Year
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High School Ends Tradition of Graduation Prayer After Student Invoked Jesus Christ Last Year

 
 
 

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A Pennsylvania public high school is ending its long tradition of offering a prayer or benediction during its graduation ceremony.

Last year, there was a complaint after a student invoked Jesus Christ while offering the prayer.

A controversy has ensued about the decision that Pottsgrove High School will not have an invocation or benediction at its graduation ceremony on June 15 – the first time in many years.

“To be honest, I’ve always thought that Pottsgrove was unique in still having prayer at public graduation ceremonies and that not many other schools in Montgomery County still do it,” said Superintendent Shellie Feola, reports The Mercury News. She added that she has always been concerned Pottsgrove was acting against case law pertaining to prayer and public schools, but decided to continue the tradition as long as no one complained.

“Last year’s was much more specifically religious than anything I had heard at Pottsgrove before,” Feola said about the student who invoked Jesus Christ. “I myself was kind of taken aback by the prayer. Apparently, it struck a chord with someone who was at the ceremony and it was reported to me that there was a complaint.”

The school district’s longstanding attorney Marc Davis reportedly told Feola that a 2000 court ruling in California made the tradition of a prayer at graduation illegal. Since the graduation ceremony is presented by the school district, Feola said the event is therefore officially sponsored by the government, which is prohibited from supporting a religious event.

“After we researched it, I informed the board in August that we could no longer allow the invocation and benediction,” she said. “There was some internal discussion on the board and that was the end of it, I thought. The board certainly had the ability to discuss it in public or to direct the administration to write a policy it could adopt, but that did not happen.”

Board members reportedly began a public discussion of the cancellation of the graduation prayer last Thursday when former school board president, and minister at Kingdom Life Church in Pottstown, Justin Valentine posted a link on the town’s Discussion GroupFacebook page to an article about an East Liverpool, Ohio student protest against the elimination of the traditional singing of “The Lord’s Prayer” at the high school graduation due to the threat of a lawsuit by the Freedom From Religion Foundation. The students protested the administration’s decision by standing together during graduation and reciting the prayer together.

 

 

Valentine’s post, however, was reportedly removed from the town’s Facebook page by current school board president Rick Rabinowitz. Subsequently, board members debated the issue.

“This is very disappointing to me too,” Bill Parker wrote, reports The Mercury News. “While the district, due to case law, can not direct that there be a prayer as part of the ceremony, we can also not violate freedom of speech.”

“People take their religions very seriously (proof of this is no more evident then this debate),” Rabinowitz said. “Parents and students of other religions do not come to graduation to attend a Christian religious service. They are there to celebrate the accomplishments of their students.”

“The harm is that they feel intimidated at speaking out against this practice and that they are not afforded the same opportunity,” he added. “The harm is that they are made uncomfortable or are even offended on one of the most special days of their lives. Free speech, as you know, has limits.”

“I guess we won’t know either since the ‘discussion’ was suppressed,” Valentine countered. “I have people in the same boat in favor but afraid to speak out. Staff and community members.”

“Those who I know support have more to lose seeing they have no recourse over the reigning point of view,” he continued. “Let’s use the real numbers thousands of students graduated with thousands in attendance. One complaint, real numbers no spin.”

“They may choose to do this, as was done at last year’s graduation by a student who went off script and praised Jesus during the benediction, but Pottsgrove is not a Christian school district,” Rabinowitz argued. “It is a public school district and our student body includes many religions besides Christianity.”

“Our country was founded as a Democratic Republic, but the founders were significantly concerned about the ‘tyranny of the majority,’” he continued. “That is why so many ‘checks and balances’ are built into the system. In this case, (again in my personal opinion), the rights of the minority supersede the majority, because there is no harm to the majority if there is no prayer, but there is harm to the minority if there is…”

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www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/06/01/high-school-ends-tradition-graduation-prayer-student-invoked-jesus-christ-last-year/

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the rights of the minority supersede the majority, because there is no harm to the majority if there is no prayer, but there is harm to the minority if there is.

Interesting thought that.

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That wouldn't fly around here. We have prayers before football games, we have a town prayer each month on the square. You would be hard pressed to find anywhere to go around here where you didn't hear a prayer. We even pray before gatherings here at work...

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I only ever see people pray in church.
I know a lot of people pray, they just don't make a public display of it.


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You never heard of a baccalaureate service in High School?

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I was in court a little while ago, testifying about a hit and run I witnessed.

When the bailiff came in, he said, "All rise, the honorable Judge Jane Doe presiding. God bless the county of XXXX, God bless the state of Tennessee, and God bless the United States of America. You may be seated."

I also was sworn in under the oath of "So help me God".

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

You never heard of a baccalaureate service in High School?


 no...confuse



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Hooker

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Also, most Graduations are held in churches. All 4 of my kids had their ceremony in a church. No where else is big enough...

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FNW


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We had a baccalaureate service, too. And our law school hooding ceremony took place in a church. Heck, they even had a non-denominational chapel on campus where my friends got married (they met in school).

I see people praying all the time in public. In restaurants before meals, in the park on benches, at cemeteries.

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Most of the high schools here have very large gymnasiums with stages. Graduation ceremony would be there or if the gym was not big enough, there are many, many public recreation facilities and halls that can accommodate.

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FNW wrote:

We had a baccalaureate service, too. And our law school hooding ceremony took place in a church. Heck, they even had a non-denominational chapel on campus where my friends got married (they met in school).

I see people praying all the time in public. In restaurants before meals, in the park on benches, at cemeteries.


 Really? Thats not the case here. I do have plenty of religious friends who pray before meals,  in their own home.

 



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apple wrote:

the rights of the minority supersede the majority, because there is no harm to the majority if there is no prayer, but there is harm to the minority if there is.

Interesting thought that.


 What "harm"?



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Ohfour wrote:

Also, most Graduations are held in churches. All 4 of my kids had their ceremony in a church. No where else is big enough...


 No, not "most".  I've never seen one held in a church, not even for a religious school.



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huskerbb wrote:
Ohfour wrote:

Also, most Graduations are held in churches. All 4 of my kids had their ceremony in a church. No where else is big enough...


 No, not "most".  I've never seen one held in a church, not even for a religious school.


 I was going to say that but didn't want to upset anyone. lol



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huskerbb wrote:
Ohfour wrote:

Also, most Graduations are held in churches. All 4 of my kids had their ceremony in a church. No where else is big enough...


 No, not "most".  I've never seen one held in a church, not even for a religious school.


I meant around here.  I have no idea how Nebraska does it... 



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Most states apparently don't do it like they do where you live.

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Ours are all held at the local outdoor concert arena. Every HS in the county holds graduation there. Mine was held on my HS football field.

I have never noticed anyone in public praying. They might do it but I don't notice it.

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huskerbb wrote:

Most states apparently don't do it like they do where you live.


That's why my very first words on here were "That wouldn't fly around here."



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My graduation was held in the HS football field, but my high school baccalaureate was held in a Lutheran Church.

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Lexxy wrote:

Ours are all held at the local outdoor concert arena. Every HS in the county holds graduation there. Mine was held on my HS football field.

I have never noticed anyone in public praying. They might do it but I don't notice it.


Mine, (had I actually graduated), was held at The First Baptist Church of Nashville, TN!

(You have to say that with a Southern accent) 



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Ohfour wrote:
Lexxy wrote:

Ours are all held at the local outdoor concert arena. Every HS in the county holds graduation there. Mine was held on my HS football field.

I have never noticed anyone in public praying. They might do it but I don't notice it.


Mine, (had I actually graduated), was held at The First Baptist Church of Nashville, TN!

(You have to say that with a Southern accent) 


You either had a very small class or a very big church!   



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Lexxy wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Lexxy wrote:

Ours are all held at the local outdoor concert arena. Every HS in the county holds graduation there. Mine was held on my HS football field.

I have never noticed anyone in public praying. They might do it but I don't notice it.


Mine, (had I actually graduated), was held at The First Baptist Church of Nashville, TN!

(You have to say that with a Southern accent) 


You either had a very small class or a very big church!   


The view from the balcony!

 

 

Nashville-church-1.jpg

 

 



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Owl drink to that!

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How would saying a prayer "harm" anyone? Sticks and stones and all that...

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Beautiful church!

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They pray over everything here too. Public and private. We have a water festival every summer and on the last day a priest comes out and stands along the river and blesses every boat that passes by.

The blessing of the fleet.

k4b5h.So.9.jpeg



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apple wrote:

the rights of the minority supersede the majority, because there is no harm to the majority if there is no prayer, but there is harm to the minority if there is.

Interesting thought that.


 And ass backwards.



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Southern_Belle wrote:

They pray over everything here too. Public and private. We have a water festival every summer and on the last day a priest comes out and stands along the river and blesses every boat that passes by.

The blessing of the fleet.

k4b5h.So.9.jpeg


 Ahhh... you just reminded me. 

I was walking the dog last week and I cut through the church parking lot (Catholic church), the priest was blessing a mini van.

I've never seen that before. LOL  I wonder what it costs and if they have a drive through?



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apple wrote:
Southern_Belle wrote:

They pray over everything here too. Public and private. We have a water festival every summer and on the last day a priest comes out and stands along the river and blesses every boat that passes by.

The blessing of the fleet.

k4b5h.So.9.jpeg


 Ahhh... you just reminded me. 

I was walking the dog last week and I cut through the church parking lot (Catholic church), the priest was blessing a mini van.

I've never seen that before. LOL  I wonder what it costs and if they have a drive through?


 I think priests work for tips, lol. Funny thing is, this is a heavily Baptist town. I think using a priest is just more symbolic that a Baptist minister.



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No one has yet explained how anyone is "harmed" by having others pray in their presence.

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FNW wrote:

My graduation was held in the HS football field, but my high school baccalaureate was held in a Lutheran Church.


 Baccalaureate is held in each church for the church's graduating seniors only. Unless it's a private school and then they do what they want. Also, public school graduations are held at the school's football stadium. There are 2 schools where that doesn't work due to the size of the school and they have grad at the local symphony auditorium/theater. In Indiana they had it at the local amphitheater. I have never, ever, heard of a grad AT a church. 



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huskerbb wrote:

No one has yet explained how anyone is "harmed" by having others pray in their presence.


 Unless they are under demonic influence, it shouldn't be harmful in any way what so ever.



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Since the prayer was lead by a student, doesn't that meet the criteria of not being state sanctioned?

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My younger son graduated from High School tonight. And, it was concluded with a prayer, in a public school.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

My younger son graduated from High School tonight. And, it was concluded with a prayer, in a public school.


 That's the way ours are, too. 



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Since the prayer was lead by a student, doesn't that meet the criteria of not being state sanctioned?
- lilyofcourse

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I believe it would depend on whether it was a scheduled prayer. Student led outside of the actual times of the ceremony would probably get a pass by the ACLU. Scheduled prayer as part of the ceremony likely is what caused the issue.

Since I wouldn't want a Muslim prayer leading a graduation, I'm on the side of "keep religion and government separate" on this one. If they must schedule prayer into the ceremony, it should be something like "2 minutes of silence to allow those that wish to pray in silence to do so". That way everyone can pray if they want to, or not if they don't. And it doesn't push religious prayers that may be incompatible with other people's faith upon people that worship other faiths.

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Which is why we need to keep the Muslims OUT.

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We need to keep the terrorist extremists out. Kids need to go to school though, even Muslim kids.

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They can go to school--but they need to adapt to our culture, not the other way around.



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They can go to school--but they need to adapt to our culture, not the other way around.
- huskerbb

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Do you mean "our culture" that allows freedom of religion and the separation of Church and State? That "culture"?

If so, I am in full agreement with you on that.

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They don't believe in those things--which is why we should keep them out.

A reporter recently asked 27 random Muslims in the U.S.--not extremists or terrorists--if they would rather live under the U.S. Constitution, or Sharia Law. EVERY ONE of them said Sharia Law.

By terror or ballot box, their goal is the same.

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huskerbb wrote:

They don't believe in those things--which is why we should keep them out.

A reporter recently asked 27 random Muslims in the U.S.--not extremists or terrorists--if they would rather live under the U.S. Constitution, or Sharia Law. EVERY ONE of them said Sharia Law.

By terror or ballot box, their goal is the same.


 That is nothing more than anecdotal. I can find 27 Muslims that would choose the Constitution just as easily. 



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Mellow Momma wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

They don't believe in those things--which is why we should keep them out.

A reporter recently asked 27 random Muslims in the U.S.--not extremists or terrorists--if they would rather live under the U.S. Constitution, or Sharia Law. EVERY ONE of them said Sharia Law.

By terror or ballot box, their goal is the same.


 That is nothing more than anecdotal. I can find 27 Muslims that would choose the Constitution just as easily. 


Then they aren't Muslims.  That totally goes against the tenets of their religion. 



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Mellow Momma wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

They don't believe in those things--which is why we should keep them out.

A reporter recently asked 27 random Muslims in the U.S.--not extremists or terrorists--if they would rather live under the U.S. Constitution, or Sharia Law. EVERY ONE of them said Sharia Law.

By terror or ballot box, their goal is the same.


 That is nothing more than anecdotal. I can find 27 Muslims that would choose the Constitution just as easily. 


 Same question for the Christians:

Bible or Constitution?

flan



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flan327 wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

They don't believe in those things--which is why we should keep them out.

A reporter recently asked 27 random Muslims in the U.S.--not extremists or terrorists--if they would rather live under the U.S. Constitution, or Sharia Law. EVERY ONE of them said Sharia Law.

By terror or ballot box, their goal is the same.


 That is nothing more than anecdotal. I can find 27 Muslims that would choose the Constitution just as easily. 


 Same question for the Christians:

Bible or Constitution?

flan


The Bible commands us to follow man's law.  There is nothing in the Constitution that is un-Biblical.  I can follow the Constitution 100% without doing one thing against my religion... 



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Schools CANNOT tell students not to pray. That is a government restriction on religion. Why is that so damn hard to understand?

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WYSIWYG wrote:

Since the prayer was lead by a student, doesn't that meet the criteria of not being state sanctioned?
- lilyofcourse

________________________________

I believe it would depend on whether it was a scheduled prayer. Student led outside of the actual times of the ceremony would probably get a pass by the ACLU. Scheduled prayer as part of the ceremony likely is what caused the issue.

Since I wouldn't want a Muslim prayer leading a graduation, I'm on the side of "keep religion and government separate" on this one. If they must schedule prayer into the ceremony, it should be something like "2 minutes of silence to allow those that wish to pray in silence to do so". That way everyone can pray if they want to, or not if they don't. And it doesn't push religious prayers that may be incompatible with other people's faith upon people that worship other faiths.


I agree with this.

While I wouldn't be harmed or otherwise bothered by a Christian prayer I would be really freaked out if it was a Muslim prayer to Allah.  Silence to pray however you wish or not is fair for everyone. 



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Lexxy wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:

Since the prayer was lead by a student, doesn't that meet the criteria of not being state sanctioned?
- lilyofcourse

________________________________

I believe it would depend on whether it was a scheduled prayer. Student led outside of the actual times of the ceremony would probably get a pass by the ACLU. Scheduled prayer as part of the ceremony likely is what caused the issue.

Since I wouldn't want a Muslim prayer leading a graduation, I'm on the side of "keep religion and government separate" on this one. If they must schedule prayer into the ceremony, it should be something like "2 minutes of silence to allow those that wish to pray in silence to do so". That way everyone can pray if they want to, or not if they don't. And it doesn't push religious prayers that may be incompatible with other people's faith upon people that worship other faiths.


I agree with this.

While I wouldn't be harmed or otherwise bothered by a Christian prayer I would be really freaked out if it was a Muslim prayer to Allah.  Silence to pray however you wish or not is fair for everyone. 


 Ditto.



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flan327 wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

They don't believe in those things--which is why we should keep them out.

A reporter recently asked 27 random Muslims in the U.S.--not extremists or terrorists--if they would rather live under the U.S. Constitution, or Sharia Law. EVERY ONE of them said Sharia Law.

By terror or ballot box, their goal is the same.


 That is nothing more than anecdotal. I can find 27 Muslims that would choose the Constitution just as easily. 


 Same question for the Christians:

Bible or Constitution?

flan


 No, it's not remotely the same.  Our laws are largely based on Christianity, and the Western ideals that spring from that. 

 



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Mellow Momma wrote:
huskerbb wrote:

They don't believe in those things--which is why we should keep them out.

A reporter recently asked 27 random Muslims in the U.S.--not extremists or terrorists--if they would rather live under the U.S. Constitution, or Sharia Law. EVERY ONE of them said Sharia Law.

By terror or ballot box, their goal is the same.


 That is nothing more than anecdotal. I can find 27 Muslims that would choose the Constitution just as easily. 


 That is pure BS.  Look what has happened in Westwrn nations where they have gotten to be a majority in some areas.  They are attacking people for not wearing proper clothing according to sharia law.  

People are blind and ignorant if they think our democracy, or any Western democracy, could survive a majority Muslim population.  



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