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Lady Gaga Snerd


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Appeals Court Upholds ‘Concealed Carry’ Restrictions
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Appeals Court Upholds ‘Concealed Carry’ Restrictions

Federal court in California says Americans have no guaranteed right to carry concealed guns in public

 
Colt's Manufacturing Co. handguns on display at the National Rifle Association’s annual meeting in Louisville, Ky. On Thursday, the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco upheld a California law requiring residents to show ‘good cause’ for carrying a concealed handgun.ENLARGE
Colt's Manufacturing Co. handguns on display at the National Rifle Association’s annual meeting in Louisville, Ky. On Thursday, the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco upheld a California law requiring residents to show ‘good cause’ for carrying a concealed handgun. PHOTO: LUKE SHARRETT/BLOOMBERG NEWS
By 
JOE PALAZZOLO
Updated June 9, 2016 2:22 p.m. ET
217 COMMENTS

Americans have no Second Amendment right to carry concealed guns in public, a federal appeals court in California ruled on Thursday in a significant blow to gun-rights activists and gun owners in a large swath of the Western U.S.

The San Francisco-based Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, in a 7-4 ruling, upheld a California law requiring residents to show “good cause” for carrying a concealed handgun.

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Under the California law, personal safety alone doesn't qualify as good cause, which is defined by county sheriffs. The plaintiffs, gun owners seeking licenses to carry their weapons concealed, said the policies in San Diego and Yolo counties where they live violated their Second Amendment rights.

“We hold that the Second Amendment does not preserve or protect a right of a member of the general public to carry concealed firearms in public,” wrote Judge William A. Fletcher, an appointee of President Bill Clinton, for the seven-judge majority.

Lawmakers are free to enact “any prohibition or restriction a state may choose” on the carrying of concealed guns, Judge Fletcher said.

A Second Amendment right to carry a firearm openly in public may exist, but the Supreme Court hasn't answered that question, Judge Fletcher wrote.

In dissent, Judge Consuelo M. Callahan, appointed to the bench by President George W. Bush, said the Second Amendment demands individuals be permitted to carry a weapon in self-defense under the Second Amendment, either openly or concealed.

With some exceptions, California law bans people from carrying guns openly, she wrote. She was joined in her dissent by three colleagues.

Taken together, the concealed-carry policies and the open-carry ban “obliterate the Second Amendment’s right to bear a firearm in some manner in public for self-defense,” she wrote.

The Ninth Circuit encompasses Alaska, Arizona, California, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Oregon and Washington. The ruling aligns the court with three other regional appeals courts that have upheld good-cause requirements: the Second, Third and Fourth circuits. The Chicago-based Seventh Circuit struck down an Illinois law similar to California’s in 2012.

Many gun-law experts, Second Amendment scholars and others expect the law on concealed-carry outside the home ultimately will be settled by the U.S. Supreme Court. The court has so far turned away several opportunities to take up the issue.

The ruling Thursday comes on the heels of a May 16 ruling by the Ninth Circuit recognizing that the Second Amendment protects the right to buy and sell firearms, as well as the right to keep and bear them.

Thursday’s ruling marked a reversal for the Ninth Circuit. In 2014, a three-judge panel of the court held that the Second Amendment “does require that the states permit some form of carry for self-defense outside the home.”

But the Ninth Circuit voted to rehear the case, with more judges participating, upon the request of California Attorney General Kamala Harris. That rehearing before 11 judges led to Thursday’s 7-4 ruling.

The plaintiffs in the case include Edward Peruta of San Diego County, who was denied a concealed-carry licenses in 2009 for failing to show good cause.

The county defines the term as “a set of circumstances that distinguish the applicant from the mainstream and causes him or her to be placed in harm’s way,” according to an affidavit filed by a county official in the case.

A lawyer for Mr. Peruta didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment. Ms. Harris said in an emailed statement that the ruling “ensures that local law enforcement leaders have the tools they need to protect public safety by determining who can carry loaded, concealed weapons in our communities.”

Yolo County has no definition of good cause but offers applicants examples of who may have it, such as a victim of documented threats of violence or a business owner who carries large sums of cash or valuables.

The Ninth Circuit majority traced concealed-carry licenses to 1299 England, when KingEdward I told his sheriffs to prohibit anyone from “going armed within the realm without the king’s special licence.” The court also cited restrictions on carrying concealed weapons that several American colonies adapted from English law centuries later. After the U.S. Civil War, at least five state constitutions explicitly stated that the right to carry concealed weapons could be prohibited by the legislature.

“The carrying of concealed weapons was consistently forbidden in England beginning in 1541; was consistently forbidden in the American colonies; and was consistently forbidden by the states,” Judge Fletcher wrote.

Thursday’s decision inspired dueling narratives from the country’s largest gun advocacy groups, both of which filed briefs in the case.

Chris W. Cox, executive director of the National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action, said the ruling revealed the Ninth Circuit to be out of touch with mainstream Americans and could endanger Californians in counties with “hostile” sheriffs, he said.

“This decision will leave good people defenseless,” he said.

Elizabeth Avore, legal director for Everytown for Gun Safety, called the ruling “a major victory for public safety” and praised the Ninth Circuit for moving in step with at least three other federal appeals courts.

“The decision is well within the legal mainstream,” she said.

Write to Joe Palazzolo at joe.palazzolo@wsj.com

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/appeals-court-upholds-concealed-carry-restrictions-1465483920



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apple


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Personally, as you may have guessed, I see no reason to conceal an carry.


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Ohfour


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apple wrote:

Personally, as you may have guessed, I see no reason to conceal an carry.

That's really not the issue.  They have an open carry ban, now a concealed carry ban.  So they have pretty much banned anyone from carrying...

 



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Lady Gaga Snerd


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apple wrote:

Personally, as you may have guessed, I see no reason to conceal an carry.

 OK?  Well I do.  I want to be protected when i am out and about as a woman.  I also want to be protected when i travel with my 14 yr daughter.  So, if you don't want to carry, then don't.  But, of course, you have no problem taking away our rights.  But, it's OK for Obama to protect HIS family with guns but not for us.  Uh huh.



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apple


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Ohfour wrote:
apple wrote:

Personally, as you may have guessed, I see no reason to conceal an carry.

That's really not the issue.  They have an open carry ban, now a concealed carry ban.  So they have pretty much banned anyone from carrying...

 

 Is that a problem? Do you need to carry a gun with you wherever you go?



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
apple wrote:

Personally, as you may have guessed, I see no reason to conceal an carry.

 OK?  Well I do.  I want to be protected when i am out and about as a woman.  I also want to be protected when i travel with my 14 yr daughter.  So, if you don't want to carry, then don't.  But, of course, you have no problem taking away our rights.  But, it's OK for Obama to protect HIS family with guns but not for us.  Uh huh.

 Do you carry a gun with you whenever you leave your house? For protection?



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Ohfour


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apple wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
apple wrote:

Personally, as you may have guessed, I see no reason to conceal an carry.

That's really not the issue.  They have an open carry ban, now a concealed carry ban.  So they have pretty much banned anyone from carrying...

 

 Is that a problem? Do you need to carry a gun with you wherever you go?

That really doesn't matter does it.  I have the right to do so.  This will never stand up with SCOTUS. 



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apple wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
apple wrote:

Personally, as you may have guessed, I see no reason to conceal an carry.

 OK?  Well I do.  I want to be protected when i am out and about as a woman.  I also want to be protected when i travel with my 14 yr daughter.  So, if you don't want to carry, then don't.  But, of course, you have no problem taking away our rights.  But, it's OK for Obama to protect HIS family with guns but not for us.  Uh huh.

 Do you carry a gun with you whenever you leave your house? For protection?

Absolutely.   



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Lady Gaga Snerd


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Guns are the great equalizer. They protect women. But, I guess the Left doesn't care about that as they turn a blind eye to Honor killing and all the horrors muslim women suffer and pretend there is a "war on women" because we won't pay for your birth control.

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apple


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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Guns are the great equalizer. They protect women. But, I guess the Left doesn't care about that as they turn a blind eye to Honor killing and all the horrors muslim women suffer and pretend there is a "war on women" because we won't pay for your birth control.

 So all women should carry guns?



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Lady Gaga Snerd


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apple wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
apple wrote:

Personally, as you may have guessed, I see no reason to conceal an carry.

 OK?  Well I do.  I want to be protected when i am out and about as a woman.  I also want to be protected when i travel with my 14 yr daughter.  So, if you don't want to carry, then don't.  But, of course, you have no problem taking away our rights.  But, it's OK for Obama to protect HIS family with guns but not for us.  Uh huh.

 Do you carry a gun with you whenever you leave your house? For protection?

 No, not always.  But when i am traveling for work or with DD or going to be on more isolated roads, then yes, i bring my gun.



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apple


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Ohfour wrote:
apple wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
apple wrote:

Personally, as you may have guessed, I see no reason to conceal an carry.

 OK?  Well I do.  I want to be protected when i am out and about as a woman.  I also want to be protected when i travel with my 14 yr daughter.  So, if you don't want to carry, then don't.  But, of course, you have no problem taking away our rights.  But, it's OK for Obama to protect HIS family with guns but not for us.  Uh huh.

 Do you carry a gun with you whenever you leave your house? For protection?

Absolutely.   

 I find that shocking. Its just something I can't relate to, I do own guns and have my hunting license so I am not anti-gun at all. It just would never occur to me that I needed to carry a gun with me when I went shopping or out for a walk.

 



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apple wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Guns are the great equalizer. They protect women. But, I guess the Left doesn't care about that as they turn a blind eye to Honor killing and all the horrors muslim women suffer and pretend there is a "war on women" because we won't pay for your birth control.

 So all women should carry guns?

Pretty much every woman I know carries.  That's why the crime rate here is so low... 



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apple


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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
apple wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
apple wrote:

Personally, as you may have guessed, I see no reason to conceal an carry.

 OK?  Well I do.  I want to be protected when i am out and about as a woman.  I also want to be protected when i travel with my 14 yr daughter.  So, if you don't want to carry, then don't.  But, of course, you have no problem taking away our rights.  But, it's OK for Obama to protect HIS family with guns but not for us.  Uh huh.

 Do you carry a gun with you whenever you leave your house? For protection?

 No, not always.  But when i am traveling for work or with DD or going to be on more isolated roads, then yes, i bring my gun.

 Have you had training on how to use it?



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apple


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Ohfour wrote:
apple wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Guns are the great equalizer. They protect women. But, I guess the Left doesn't care about that as they turn a blind eye to Honor killing and all the horrors muslim women suffer and pretend there is a "war on women" because we won't pay for your birth control.

 So all women should carry guns?

Pretty much every woman I know carries.  That's why the crime rate here is so low... 

 Have any of your women friends ever shot anyone?



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Ohfour


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apple wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
apple wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
apple wrote:

Personally, as you may have guessed, I see no reason to conceal an carry.

 OK?  Well I do.  I want to be protected when i am out and about as a woman.  I also want to be protected when i travel with my 14 yr daughter.  So, if you don't want to carry, then don't.  But, of course, you have no problem taking away our rights.  But, it's OK for Obama to protect HIS family with guns but not for us.  Uh huh.

 Do you carry a gun with you whenever you leave your house? For protection?

Absolutely.   

 I find that shocking. Its just something I can't relate to, I do own guns and have my hunting license so I am not anti-gun at all. It just would never occur to me that I needed to carry a gun with me when I went shopping or out for a walk.

 

If you go to the grocery store here, you will see more people with guns than without. 



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Ohfour


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apple wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
apple wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Guns are the great equalizer. They protect women. But, I guess the Left doesn't care about that as they turn a blind eye to Honor killing and all the horrors muslim women suffer and pretend there is a "war on women" because we won't pay for your birth control.

 So all women should carry guns?

Pretty much every woman I know carries.  That's why the crime rate here is so low... 

 Have any of your women friends ever shot anyone?

Not that I'm aware of.  It's a deterrent.  And it works very very well... 



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Lawyerlady


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apple wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
apple wrote:

Personally, as you may have guessed, I see no reason to conceal an carry.

 OK?  Well I do.  I want to be protected when i am out and about as a woman.  I also want to be protected when i travel with my 14 yr daughter.  So, if you don't want to carry, then don't.  But, of course, you have no problem taking away our rights.  But, it's OK for Obama to protect HIS family with guns but not for us.  Uh huh.

 Do you carry a gun with you whenever you leave your house? For protection?

 My husband does.  And I will as soon as I get my butt down to the sheriff's office.



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apple


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For the record, I'm not judging, just curious as its all so foreign to me, this gun culture you have.



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Ohfour wrote:
apple wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
apple wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
apple wrote:

Personally, as you may have guessed, I see no reason to conceal an carry.

 OK?  Well I do.  I want to be protected when i am out and about as a woman.  I also want to be protected when i travel with my 14 yr daughter.  So, if you don't want to carry, then don't.  But, of course, you have no problem taking away our rights.  But, it's OK for Obama to protect HIS family with guns but not for us.  Uh huh.

 Do you carry a gun with you whenever you leave your house? For protection?

Absolutely.   

 I find that shocking. Its just something I can't relate to, I do own guns and have my hunting license so I am not anti-gun at all. It just would never occur to me that I needed to carry a gun with me when I went shopping or out for a walk.

 

If you go to the grocery store here, you will see more people with guns than without. 

 I've never seen anyone out with a gun here. So you can imagine how odd it is for me to envision that.



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Lady Gaga Snerd


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How do you know they don't have a gun? Just because you don't see it doesn't mean they don't have one.

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Lexxy


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I don't think Oh4's home town is representative of most of the country. I've never noticed anyone carrying a gun at the grocery store or any other store. My dad took a gun with him at all times but it was usually in the car not on his person. He did have a carry permit. My ex had a carry permit but rarely carried.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

How do you know they don't have a gun? Just because you don't see it doesn't mean they don't have one.

Handguns are illegal for the most part, I don't know of anyone who even owns a handgun. Many people own rifles or shotguns for hunting.

 



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Lexxy wrote:

I don't think Oh4's home town is representative of most of the country. I've never noticed anyone carrying a gun at the grocery store or any other store. My dad took a gun with him at all times but it was usually in the car not on his person. He did have a carry permit. My ex had a carry permit but rarely carried.

 Oh okay, well for a minute I was thinking it was the wild west there! lol



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apple wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
apple wrote:

Personally, as you may have guessed, I see no reason to conceal an carry.

That's really not the issue.  They have an open carry ban, now a concealed carry ban.  So they have pretty much banned anyone from carrying...

 

 Is that a problem? Do you need to carry a gun with you wherever you go?

 What good is it sitting locked up at home if you are attacked getting out of your car at the mall?



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Lexxy wrote:

I don't think Oh4's home town is representative of most of the country. I've never noticed anyone carrying a gun at the grocery store or any other store. My dad took a gun with him at all times but it was usually in the car not on his person. He did have a carry permit. My ex had a carry permit but rarely carried.

 That's the concealed part.  I think you'd be surprised at how many people are carrying guns.  



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apple


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Lawyerlady wrote:
apple wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
apple wrote:

Personally, as you may have guessed, I see no reason to conceal an carry.

That's really not the issue.  They have an open carry ban, now a concealed carry ban.  So they have pretty much banned anyone from carrying...

 

 Is that a problem? Do you need to carry a gun with you wherever you go?

 What good is it sitting locked up at home if you are attacked getting out of your car at the mall?

 I've never been attacked at the mall or anywhere and I don't know anyone that has been, I am not afraid of being attacked. 

Obviously I do take safety measures like not walking down dark paths in the park at midnight but other than that I have no reason to be afraid.

Its never crossed my mind that I would or should have a gun with me at all times, its a disturbing thought to be honest. Not judging, just saying its a different culture.

 



-- Edited by apple on Thursday 9th of June 2016 03:51:28 PM

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Lawyerlady wrote:
Lexxy wrote:

I don't think Oh4's home town is representative of most of the country. I've never noticed anyone carrying a gun at the grocery store or any other store. My dad took a gun with him at all times but it was usually in the car not on his person. He did have a carry permit. My ex had a carry permit but rarely carried.

 That's the concealed part.  I think you'd be surprised at how many people are carrying guns.  

 Not here though, no way. 



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apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lexxy wrote:

I don't think Oh4's home town is representative of most of the country. I've never noticed anyone carrying a gun at the grocery store or any other store. My dad took a gun with him at all times but it was usually in the car not on his person. He did have a carry permit. My ex had a carry permit but rarely carried.

 That's the concealed part.  I think you'd be surprised at how many people are carrying guns.  

 Not here though, no way. 

 Well, I don't live in Canada - so not my circus.



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apple


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Lawyerlady wrote:
apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lexxy wrote:

I don't think Oh4's home town is representative of most of the country. I've never noticed anyone carrying a gun at the grocery store or any other store. My dad took a gun with him at all times but it was usually in the car not on his person. He did have a carry permit. My ex had a carry permit but rarely carried.

 That's the concealed part.  I think you'd be surprised at how many people are carrying guns.  

 Not here though, no way. 

 Well, I don't live in Canada - so not my circus.

 I know where you live.



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When my Canadian friend was visiting us at the lake, we went to a street fair in the little town where we have our place.

One of the booths was business that offered carry permit classes. She freaked out. She was absolutely in shock. I told her that probably 75% of the people were carrying and I pointed out some "bulges" that were concealed handguns. I though she was going to have a panic attack right there...

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apple


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Ohfour wrote:

When my Canadian friend was visiting us at the lake, we went to a street fair in the little town where we have our place.

One of the booths was business that offered carry permit classes. She freaked out. She was absolutely in shock. I told her that probably 75% of the people were carrying and I pointed out some "bulges" that were concealed handguns. I though she was going to have a panic attack right there...

 I can totally relate. lol



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apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lexxy wrote:

I don't think Oh4's home town is representative of most of the country. I've never noticed anyone carrying a gun at the grocery store or any other store. My dad took a gun with him at all times but it was usually in the car not on his person. He did have a carry permit. My ex had a carry permit but rarely carried.

 That's the concealed part.  I think you'd be surprised at how many people are carrying guns.  

 Not here though, no way. 

 Well, I don't live in Canada - so not my circus.

 I know where you live.

 Nor do I want to. 

 

My receptionist has a gun.  She sits at the front desk - we are surrounded by banks, most of which have been robbed at one time or another.  Someone could easily run in here to hide or take hostages.  



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Lawyerlady wrote:
apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lexxy wrote:

I don't think Oh4's home town is representative of most of the country. I've never noticed anyone carrying a gun at the grocery store or any other store. My dad took a gun with him at all times but it was usually in the car not on his person. He did have a carry permit. My ex had a carry permit but rarely carried.

 That's the concealed part.  I think you'd be surprised at how many people are carrying guns.  

 Not here though, no way. 

 Well, I don't live in Canada - so not my circus.

 I know where you live.

 Nor do I want to. 

 

My receptionist has a gun.  She sits at the front desk - we are surrounded by banks, most of which have been robbed at one time or another.  Someone could easily run in here to hide or take hostages.  

 Nor would you want to live in Canada? Well thats okay, its your choice. I would not have a problem with living in America, I really love the Pacific Northwest. The gun culture is something that admittedly, I would have a problem getting used to.

 



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No, I wouldn't want to live in Canada. The people are nice (most of them), but I moved south to get away from Michigan winters - I certainly don't want to experience Canadian ones. I also don't want to live in a country that limits free speech and a law abiding citizen's right to carry a gun to protect themselves.

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Lawyerlady wrote:

No, I wouldn't want to live in Canada. The people are nice (most of them), but I moved south to get away from Michigan winters - I certainly don't want to experience Canadian ones. I also don't want to live in a country that limits free speech and a law abiding citizen's right to carry a gun to protect themselves.

Not that I want you to move to Canada, but the winters here, where I live are quite temperate and often without snow.

I have never had a problem with limitations to my speech, or the lack of guns and gun deaths... as a direct result of the lack of guns.

I really don't want to get in a pissing match with you about whose country is better.  Lets both just be proud and consider ourselves lucky to live where we do with the freedoms we have.

 



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apple wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

No, I wouldn't want to live in Canada. The people are nice (most of them), but I moved south to get away from Michigan winters - I certainly don't want to experience Canadian ones. I also don't want to live in a country that limits free speech and a law abiding citizen's right to carry a gun to protect themselves.

Not that I want you to move to Canada, but the winters here, where I live are quite temperate and often without snow.

I have never had a problem with limitations to my speech, or the lack of guns and gun deaths... as a direct result of the lack of guns.

I really don't want to get in a pissing match with you about whose country is better.  Lets both just be proud and consider ourselves lucky to live where we do with the freedoms we have.

 

 Sounds reasonable.  



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lilyofcourse


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Gun culture?

That's not what it is.

It's more just the way it is.

It's normal to have guns, carry them and use them.

Just part of life like washing your hair or making dinner. It's common place.

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flan327


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lilyofcourse wrote:

Gun culture?

That's not what it is.

It's more just the way it is.

It's normal to have guns, carry them and use them.

Just part of life like washing your hair or making dinner. It's common place.

 It absolutely IS. Americans love their guns, to a degree that I will never understand.

It may be "normal" for many of you, but NOT my family (with the exception of DS2) or any of my friends.

It's like you guys live in another universe.

flan



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flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

Gun culture?

That's not what it is.

It's more just the way it is.

It's normal to have guns, carry them and use them.

Just part of life like washing your hair or making dinner. It's common place.

 It absolutely IS. Americans love their guns, to a degree that I will never understand.

It may be "normal" for many of you, but NOT my family (with the exception of DS2) or any of my friends.

It's like you guys live in another universe.

flan

 You are the one that lives in an alternate universe.  Most people in this country own guns, and have grown up with them. Thank goodness your son became part of the normal population.  



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apple


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It is a matter of perspective.

And Lily, it is not an insult to say that American has a gun culture, its what the 2nd amendment is about.


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lilyofcourse


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I will never understand the fear some people have when it comes to guns.



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Ohfour


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Also, Flan, this country's building blocks were anchored on the right to own guns. To call that un American is to deny history. I would say that you are absolutely un American, wanting to restrict gun rights.

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Ohfour wrote:

Also, Flan, this country's building blocks were anchored on the right to own guns. To call that un American is to deny history. I would say that you are absolutely un American, wanting to restrict gun rights.

 I am well aware of what the Second Amendment says, as you know.

It is no longer 1791...and THIS no longer applies: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..."

flan

p.s. Have I told you lately that I could NOT care less about your opinion of me?



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flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:

Also, Flan, this country's building blocks were anchored on the right to own guns. To call that un American is to deny history. I would say that you are absolutely un American, wanting to restrict gun rights.

 I am well aware of what the Second Amendment says, as you know.

It is no longer 1791...and THIS no longer applies: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..."

flan

p.s. Have I told you lately that I could NOT care less about your opinion of me?

 Until the Constitution is amended,  this means that every law abiding citizen has a right to own a gun. You want to take away free speech too? How about unlawful search and seizure? You dont get to pick the parts of the Constitution you agree with. 

But that seems to be your MO. Deny the rights you dont agree with, while supporting the ones you do. 

Hypocrisy at its finest, but I would expect nothing less from you.



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Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:

Also, Flan, this country's building blocks were anchored on the right to own guns. To call that un American is to deny history. I would say that you are absolutely un American, wanting to restrict gun rights.

 I am well aware of what the Second Amendment says, as you know.

It is no longer 1791...and THIS no longer applies: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..."

flan

p.s. Have I told you lately that I could NOT care less about your opinion of me?

 Until the Constitution is amended,  this means that every law abiding citizen has a right to own a gun. You want to take away free speech too? How about unlawful search and seizure? You dont get to pick the parts of the Constitution you agree with. 

But that seems to be your MO. Deny the rights you dont agree with, while supporting the ones you do. 

Hypocrisy at its finest, but I would expect nothing less from you.

 Thank you for explaining the Constitution. I never could have figured that out all by myself.

What part of my "p.s." did you NOT understand?

flan



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apple


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lilyofcourse wrote:

I will never understand the fear some people have when it comes to guns.

 Fear is why people buy guns. I guess we are a fearless bunch. :)



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Ohfour


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flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:

Also, Flan, this country's building blocks were anchored on the right to own guns. To call that un American is to deny history. I would say that you are absolutely un American, wanting to restrict gun rights.

 I am well aware of what the Second Amendment says, as you know.

It is no longer 1791...and THIS no longer applies: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..."

flan

p.s. Have I told you lately that I could NOT care less about your opinion of me?

 Until the Constitution is amended,  this means that every law abiding citizen has a right to own a gun. You want to take away free speech too? How about unlawful search and seizure? You dont get to pick the parts of the Constitution you agree with. 

But that seems to be your MO. Deny the rights you dont agree with, while supporting the ones you do. 

Hypocrisy at its finest, but I would expect nothing less from you.

 Thank you for explaining the Constitution. I never could have figured that out all by myself.

What part of my "p.s." did you NOT understand?

flan

 You're the one saying it's outdated. And you're the one that doesnt think it's relevant today....



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apple wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

I will never understand the fear some people have when it comes to guns.

 Fear is why people buy guns. I guess we are a fearless bunch. :)

 Bingo!

flan



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Vette


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I buy guns because they are cool and fun to shoot. I don't buy them out of "fear". Protection is just another great reason to own one.

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