Hi, Carolyn: I could use some perspective here. My husband and I recently had a baby. After three months of maternity leave, I went back to work full time for about a month, but had to drop down to part time because I was exhausted with the kiddo not sleeping well.
Fast-forward through a layoff, finding a new job and starting back full time . . . I’m happy with my new job, but still struggling to keep the household running smoothly, getting dinner ready, cleaning etc. The problem is that when I ask for help with this stuff, I get the look: the one that says if I just quit my job I would have time to take care of all this. This has come up before, where things he says imply he considers my career a hobby, and I should quit when it gets inconvenient. What he says out loud is that I don’t have to work if I don’t want to.
It’s true, we’d be fine financially if I stayed home. But I like it;I feel fulfilled working. Problem is that I feel like I can’t ask for help around the house now because it’s admitting that I can’t hack the working-mother routine. How do I get him past the easy, “Just quit, dear,” solution?
Career or Baby?
Career or Baby?: Why on this Earth are you the one responsible for “keep[ing] the household running smoothly, getting dinner ready, cleaning etc.” when you both work full time, and why it is his option to “help”? [Excuse me while I walk this off.] He eats his share of the food, soils his share of the laundry, sheds his portion of hair and dust, is just as much of a parent to this baby as you are.
You don’t need perspective; you need 2016. In a pinch, 1987 would do.
Tell him you enjoy your job so quitting is not an answer; discussing a fair division of labor is. Unless he’d like to quit his job?
And, since you’re earning money beyond what your family needs for expenses, hire help. Housekeeper, laundry service, subscription meal service. It makes zero sense for people to quit paid careers they enjoy to free up time for easily outsourced chores.
But have that conversation about relative workloads regardless. Not who contributes more salary or benefits, but who works what hours doing what, at what physical and emotional cost. Example: The parent up half the night with a cranky baby (cost: tough hours, sleep deprivation, stress) is not the same parent who gets up with the baby, feeds everyone and does a load of laundry. You backstop each other. You note each other’s exhaustion, and you note each other’s worth. Apply accordingly to everything your joint lives require.
If he refuses, then apply marriage counseling, stat — especially if your wanting to treat your happiness as equal to his represents, to him, a political act.
There are obvious practical reasons, too, not to quit a career you value just because you can: He could get laid off. He could become disabled, or watch his profession get disrupted into obsolescence.
He could also leave you.
Very few people can afford to be cavalier about steady employment or their emotional well-being, and even if he’s one of them, he doesn’t automatically confer that luxury upon you. If some divorced parents haven’t assured you of this, then you probably just haven’t asked.
There are as many ways to be good parents to a child as there are good parents, including stay-at-home parenthood, which is the right thing for a lot of families (including, for a few years, my own). Traditional, gendered divisions of labor, too, are what end up working for many families.
But these are choices germane to quality of life on multiple levels for all involved, adults and kids. Therefore, couples who value each other as equals — in value, in needs, in entitlement to happiness — make these choices transparently and as one.
The most charitable reading of this situation that I have to offer is that both of you came to this marriage with fixed ideas of how things are supposed to be, and both of you think you’re now doing what the other wants and expects.
But with a reality that doesn’t fit neatly into those fixed ideas, you now have a choice: Keep your growing resentment to yourself as your marriage rots from the inside and your husband keeps unwittingly missing your point, or stand up and make your point.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
She needs to train her husband that he isn't' "helping" with his own house and child. You don't 'babysit" your own child. That the household and all the responsibilities of it are just as much his as hers. Work it out. Maybe he isn't a good cook, so have him do all the grocery shopping. Divide up the responsibilites.
I agree that he needs to step up and do his responsibility. However, they obviously had a different arrangement before and with the new responsibility of a baby, that adds a lot. They should most definitely hire a housekeeper to get the basics done for them since they can afford it, and then divvy up the rest of the responsibilities.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Well, depending on where you live, housekeepers aren't necessarily available. There is no housekeeping service around here. And, yes, you might find a cleaning lady on Craig's list but that is a total crap shoot. Some of them aren't very good
The only problem i have with that is that the aren't establishing that the household and it's care is also HIS job. I think they would be better off to work this out first and divvy up responsibilities in a way that works for them. For instance, i cook but DH does all of the grocery shopping, which saves me a tremendous amount of time. I think that working this out first would be better in the long run. Then, later on maybe hire a housekeeper.
It's hard to say not knowing the dynamics of both their jobs. Does he work longer hours? If his job is very demanding and he makes plenty of money, I can understand why he doesn't want to come home and mop floors. If he wasn't married - he would most likely have a housekeeper already.
Neither one wants the responsibility of taking care of the home. You can't MAKE someone suddenly start to care about cleaning toilets. They are just going to keep arguing. A housekeeper seems like the best solution.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
It's called being a grown up. Being an adult comes with responsibility.
So? Why does responsibility mean he has to do the laundry if he can afford to pay someone to do it? And since when do adults get to TELL other adults what to do.
If she has super-woman complex that everything has to be done and perfect, that's her issue. Don't want to do all the laundry? Don't. Eventually, he'll figure out how to get his shirts clean. But don't suddenly expect that you get to change the status quo and tell another adult what they HAVE TO DO.
My main question would be is he handling half of the baby responsibilities? Because that's the new factor that requires change on both their parts. She doesn't even address that.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Being an adult means you take care of your own business - you don't expect your partner to do it all for you. A household is a team and he needs to realize that in a team, everyone pitches in. That means more than just bringing home a paycheck. It means getting your hands dirty. If they can afford help, then he can certainly call and arrange it. His arms aren't broken. Is he doing ANY chores at all? I mean if he wants to eat dinner the least he can do is help make it or clean up after she makes it. Pick one. He doesn't get to pout and be a whiny jerk about it by telling her she should give up her career so he doesn't have to wash dishes. There is a middle ground.
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Out of all the lies I have told, "just kidding" is my favorite !
It's called being a grown up. Being an adult comes with responsibility.
So? Why does responsibility mean he has to do the laundry if he can afford to pay someone to do it? And since when do adults get to TELL other adults what to do.
If she has super-woman complex that everything has to be done and perfect, that's her issue. Don't want to do all the laundry? Don't. Eventually, he'll figure out how to get his shirts clean. But don't suddenly expect that you get to change the status quo and tell another adult what they HAVE TO DO.
My main question would be is he handling half of the baby responsibilities? Because that's the new factor that requires change on both their parts. She doesn't even address that.
Because he needs to understand that his own home and family come with responsibilities. Paying a housekeeper is fine and maybe they have such a high income they can pay forever. But there is a heck of a lot that housekeepers dont do and there are still chores that need done from bathing the kids and on and on. I think she would be much better served to work this out upfront and have him understand the need to do his share. Now, there is nothing wrong whatsoever with hiring out help. But, life changes. She could lose her job, he could lose his job and on and on and they suddenly they can't afford a housekeeper and she has established her marriage as the one doing all the chores.
As for the status quo, it did change. They had a child. Things need to change now. If you only expect the status quo in marriage, then i think you are making a mistake to get married. Marriage is constantly negotiated and reworked for the good of the family.
Well, she leaves out a lot of information in that letter, like if they discussed working vs. staying home before the baby came, and what her job is. And when people do that, I tend to think there is a reason. She also says that -
The problem is that when I ask for help with this stuff, I get the look: the one that says if I just quit my job I would have time to take care of all this. This has come up before, where things he says imply he considers my career a hobby, and I should quit when it gets inconvenient. What he says out loud is that I don’t have to work if I don’t want to.
She isn't talking to him about it. She's assuming things.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
It's called being a grown up. Being an adult comes with responsibility.
So? Why does responsibility mean he has to do the laundry if he can afford to pay someone to do it? And since when do adults get to TELL other adults what to do.
If she has super-woman complex that everything has to be done and perfect, that's her issue. Don't want to do all the laundry? Don't. Eventually, he'll figure out how to get his shirts clean. But don't suddenly expect that you get to change the status quo and tell another adult what they HAVE TO DO.
My main question would be is he handling half of the baby responsibilities? Because that's the new factor that requires change on both their parts. She doesn't even address that.
Because he needs to understand that his own home and family come with responsibilities. Paying a housekeeper is fine and maybe they have such a high income they can pay forever. But there is a heck of a lot that housekeepers dont do and there are still chores that need done from bathing the kids and on and on. I think she would be much better served to work this out upfront and have him understand the need to do his share. Now, there is nothing wrong whatsoever with hiring out help. But, life changes. She could lose her job, he could lose his job and on and on and they suddenly they can't afford a housekeeper and she has established her marriage as the one doing all the chores.
As for the status quo, it did change. They had a child. Things need to change now. If you only expect the status quo in marriage, then i think you are making a mistake to get married. Marriage is constantly negotiated and reworked for the good of the family.
Well, what was happening before the baby came? Was she working full time and doing it all then? Did she never discuss this at all?
And talking about this stuff BEFORE making all the changes is usually a good idea.
-- Edited by Lawyerlady on Monday 15th of August 2016 02:32:43 PM
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Who knows why? Maybe she was busy with her career or other things or thought that he would pick up the slack if and when they had kids. It really doesn't matter. Now they have a child and it is time for him to pitch in.
And we don't know that he isn't. She really doesn't say what he refuses to do or what he doesn't do. She hasn't even talked to him about it - she admits that.
What I see is a husband who hasn't said boo to his wife when she decided to go part time or find a new full time job, except that she can "quit if she wants to".
Sounds like a terribly unreasonable guy.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
And we don't know that he isn't. She really doesn't say what he refuses to do or what he doesn't do. She hasn't even talked to him about it - she admits that.
What I see is a husband who hasn't said boo to his wife when she decided to go part time or find a new full time job, except that she can "quit if she wants to".
Sounds like a terribly unreasonable guy.
That was my take when I read it. I'll take him if she doesn't want him. If he told me I didn't have to work I'm good with that!
A partner doesn't watch you struggle and say "you can quit the thing you like" as a way of helping. A true partner rolls up his sleeves and gets dirty and actually, you know, HELPS!
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Out of all the lies I have told, "just kidding" is my favorite !
You will notice he doesn't suggest she order in meals or send out the clothes to be laundered or to sit down while HE helps out for a change. His go to is for her to quit her job. The job isn't what is frustrating her. It's his lack of help that's frustrating her. And his inability to see that is disturbing.
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Out of all the lies I have told, "just kidding" is my favorite !
You will notice he doesn't suggest she order in meals or send out the clothes to be laundered or to sit down while HE helps out for a change. His go to is for her to quit her job. The job isn't what is frustrating her. It's his lack of help that's frustrating her. And his inability to see that is disturbing.
Ummm, where? That letter is full of assumptions and the basic failure to even talk to him about anything.
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LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Same place these women come from that put up with it.
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A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
