TOTALLY GEEKED!

ed11563 · Guru

Rising cost of EpiPens worries Long Island doctors, families

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

So this is an issue I have been complaining about for a few years now. I use a topical cream for a skin condition. There is no reason for it not to be OTC. It contains no dangerous drugs or such. It used to cost about $20 every couple of months. I now costs $200. Nothing has changed except for the amount that can be charged for rare drugs. My cream, and probably the epi pen are being used to offset the cost of other drugs. This is what government policy does; it skews prices. how can we deal with the high cost of drugs if we don't even know the true cost to consumers?

ed11563 · Guru

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
So this is an issue I have been complaining about for a few years now. I use a topical cream for a skin condition. There is no reason for it not to be OTC. It contains no dangerous drugs or such. It used to cost about $20 every couple of months. I now costs $200. Nothing has changed except for the amount that can be charged for rare drugs. My cream, and probably the epi pen are being used to offset the cost of other drugs. This is what government policy does; it skews prices. how can we deal with the high cost of drugs if we don't even know the true cost to consumers?

Manufacturing costs have little to do with retail pricing. The COST of making and selling these items hasn't changed.

The solution for the consumer is to switch to the generic, and get used to it.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

No.

The solution is for the government to get out of health care and make changes that will actually make it more affordable.

Caps on prices, ability to choose, shots instead of pills.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

It's the cap on prices that cause the price of cheaper drugs to be increased so those sales offset the loss on other drugs that cost more than the caps. now if you are talking about capping profit margin, that is a different story.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Caps on all of it!

Cap everything!

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

lilyofcourse wrote:
Caps on all of it!

Cap everything!

LOL, but then you talking about restricting capitalism. I am not in favor of that but I am in favor of some sort of policy that compels drug companies to have more "real" pricing. I really believe the R&D factor is the area to look at. Need to have the other areas of the world that buy the drugs pay prices that contribute toward the R&D expenses. I don't think they share in that cost.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Epi is dirt cheap. That is so ridiculous. Just get an amp of epi and syringe.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I need to use Muro 128 because i have dry eyes. It is literally just hypertonic saline. There is no actual medicine in it. The price for a tiny tiny tube of that is like $40. It is absurd.
And, i absolutely support free markets. But, the pharmacy market is not a free market. It is highly restricted.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Do you have any idea how impossible that would be to have at school?

What am I saying, you should know better than anyone.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Kids take insulin at school Lilly.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

It's the research that goes into the drugs that costs the money - not the manufacturing.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
It's the research that goes into the drugs that costs the money - not the manufacturing.

Epi has been around forever. They aren't doing clinical trials on it for asthma and allergy. There is very little expense in that particular drug.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Kids take insulin at school Lilly.

Yeah. And they need all kinds of paperwork just to get it into a nurse or other adults hands.

With zero tolerance policies, insulin and epipens are no different from pot or meth.

I mean, I have to fill out permission forms just so my kid can take a Tylenol.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Lawyerlady wrote:
It's the research that goes into the drugs that costs the money - not the manufacturing.

This is true.

My brother has been working on a drug for almost 3 years. It's a long process.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I know. It's crazy. Having to fight to have an inhaler is absurd. We need to stop making laws that only concern the idiots of the world that prevent normal people from going about their business.

FNW · Guru

I went on a fieldtrip with the kids when they were in kindergarten. One kid ate nuts and was having a reaction. The teachers stood around panicking, because even though they brought his medicine (pen) with them, they were not permitted to administer it. So they had to call 9-1-1. It was stupid. They had the pen. They have a permission slip for the nurse to give it. The kid knows how to use it. Give to him and let him shoot himself with it. Duh. But oh, no, it's better that he have a life threatening reaction and wait for the paramedics to come and stick him.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Yep.

It's beyond crazy.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

FNW wrote:
I went on a fieldtrip with the kids when they were in kindergarten. One kid ate nuts and was having a reaction. The teachers stood around panicking, because even though they brought his medicine (pen) with them, they were not permitted to administer it. So they had to call 9-1-1. It was stupid. They had the pen. They have a permission slip for the nurse to give it. The kid knows how to use it. Give to him and let him shoot himself with it. Duh. But oh, no, it's better that he have a life threatening reaction and wait for the paramedics to come and stick him.

I think that is due to a lack of education. People need to be educated. Teachers should absolutely be required to have some classes on first aid and emergency issues they may encounter like asthma, allergies, seizures and so forth.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
It's the research that goes into the drugs that costs the money - not the manufacturing.
Epi has been around forever. They aren't doing clinical trials on it for asthma and allergy. There is very little expense in that particular drug.

Oh, I know. But the profits from the Epi pen can fund research for other drugs.

I heard about this price increase b/c we were talking about needing to get one for DD12. She's allergic to ant bites, and every time she gets bit, the reaction gets worse. We would like to have one on hand, and someone told me it would be $500. I think that's crazy for a drug people buy because they MIGHT need it, and that often expires before it is ever used.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

FNW wrote:
I went on a fieldtrip with the kids when they were in kindergarten. One kid ate nuts and was having a reaction. The teachers stood around panicking, because even though they brought his medicine (pen) with them, they were not permitted to administer it. So they had to call 9-1-1. It was stupid. They had the pen. They have a permission slip for the nurse to give it. The kid knows how to use it. Give to him and let him shoot himself with it. Duh. But oh, no, it's better that he have a life threatening reaction and wait for the paramedics to come and stick him.

I would have had to grab the pen and give it to him. Stupidity hurts.

FNW · Guru

It was in the teacher's bag so I couldn't grab it without tackling her. But yeah, I would have done it, too. Fortunately his reaction wasn't that severe, but still. There is a reason he carries one.

I've noticed that the costs to consumer are going up since implementation of the Affordable Health Care Act. Prescriptions are being placed in different "tiers".

Ilumine · Regular

FNW wrote:
It was in the teacher's bag so I couldn't grab it without tackling her. But yeah, I would have done it, too. Fortunately his reaction wasn't that severe, but still. There is a reason he carries one.

I've noticed that the costs to consumer are going up since implementation of the Affordable Health Care Act. Prescriptions are being placed in different "tiers".

Way back in the day, I was on the DoD Pharmacy & Therapeutics Committee (I was one of the Military Association Representatives). Pharma Tiers are not new. Tiering a drug can actually be a cost savings program for both the company and the patients if done correctly.

Ilumine · Regular

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Kids take insulin at school Lilly.

For the most part, an anaphylactic reaction can take as little as 3 minutes to 30 minutes. Diabetic Comas (either from low or high blood sugar levels) take much longer and will have a number of symptoms. ANDPLUSALSO if a child is taking insulin at school, then he/she should also be testing his/her sugar levels regularly. A child who accidentally touches a peanut smeared handrail doesn't have the time to test.

Momala · Great cook-happy wife-superb fisherman

And the EpiPen has a shelf life of ONE year! That's $600 a year, enough to put me in bankruptcy!
I keep my new pens in my purse & the pick-up; I stash the "expired" pens in the boat and the tractor.
The literature says as long as the visible solution is not cloudy, it should still be usable.

I fault Mylan (the purchasing company of EpiPen) for the increase in price. The old company sold it for
under $100 - why can't Mylan? Don't shove the cost of R&D onto one product.

Ilumine · Regular

Momala wrote:

And the EpiPen has a shelf life of ONE year! That's $600 a year, enough to put me in bankruptcy!
I keep my new pens in my purse & the pick-up; I stash the "expired" pens in the boat and the tractor.
The literature says as long as the visible solution is not cloudy, it should still be usable.

I fault Mylan (the purchasing company of EpiPen) for the increase in price. The old company sold it for
under $100 - why can't Mylan? Don't shove the cost of R&D onto one product.

Given the fact that the President of Mylan just gave herself a ginormous raise....

aergia · Regular

so, explain to me.....why isnt there a generic equivalent?

FNW · Guru

Maybe the patent hasn't expired yet?

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I have about 8 epi pens laying around that I got completely free. Every time my asthma doctor writes a script he gives me a coupon to cover the copay. I have never paid for any of them.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Drugs have been in tiers long before the ACA. The insurance I had 15 years ago had all the drugs in tiers.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Mellow Momma wrote:
Drugs have been in tiers long before the ACA. The insurance I had 15 years ago had all the drugs in tiers.

So did I, 15 years ago that is. But never had a topical cream cost me $200.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Momala wrote:

And the EpiPen has a shelf life of ONE year! That's $600 a year, enough to put me in bankruptcy!
I keep my new pens in my purse & the pick-up; I stash the "expired" pens in the boat and the tractor.
The literature says as long as the visible solution is not cloudy, it should still be usable.

I fault Mylan (the purchasing company of EpiPen) for the increase in price. The old company sold it for
under $100 - why can't Mylan? Don't shove the cost of R&D onto one product.

I wouldn't be tossing them out at year one and a day. At least if they are a back up just in case.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Drugs have been in tiers long before the ACA. The insurance I had 15 years ago had all the drugs in tiers.
So did I, 15 years ago that is. But never had a topical cream cost me $200.

Really?! I sure did. I also had Zovirax - which is for herpes but I took it for chicken pox - cost me over $175 for a one week supply WITH insurance in 1995. So this is nothing new. It was a tier 3 drug at the time. DD's acne cream was $150 with insurance.

Vette · Owl drink to that!

I wish I understood the mysteries of how the pharmacies work. One of my medications is Abilify, which until recently had no generic option. It costs $1200 a month without insurance, luckily my coverage covered most of that and I pay just over $100 a month out of pocket. But then I was given a discount card which allowed me to get it for $25 a month which was awesome.

My doctor kept saying, oh, the generic will be out soon and then it will be way cheaper. So finally about a year ago or something the generic version came out, so I went in and first they said I couldn't use the card anymore because of the generic, AND it's now MORE expensive then before. Now I'm paying closer to $200 a month! I asked why and they gave me some long explanation about how since the generic is so new it's not cheap yet or something like that.

I don't know, I'm not versed in this area, all I know is I feel like my doctor got my hopes all up for this stupid generic medication and now I wished it wasn't around.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Mellow Momma wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
Drugs have been in tiers long before the ACA. The insurance I had 15 years ago had all the drugs in tiers.
So did I, 15 years ago that is. But never had a topical cream cost me $200.
Really?! I sure did. I also had Zovirax - which is for herpes but I took it for chicken pox - cost me over $175 for a one week supply WITH insurance in 1995. So this is nothing new. It was a tier 3 drug at the time. DD's acne cream was $150 with insurance.

Really. In fact for a long time it never went through my insurance since the full price was less than my co pay.

Ohfour · Hooker

You can get the generic at Wal-Mart for $150 for 2 pens. People don't want the generic. They need to get over it...

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

The manufacturer is issuing $300 coupns

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I always get a coupon from my doctor and have never paid.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I just read that Merck invented the EpiPen and sold it at the price we all remember being affordable. Then they sold the rights to another company. This new company made "improvements" to it and jacked up the price to pay for the improvements. That's why it's so much more expensive now. One of the improvements they developed was making the needle invisible. Because of the ways they claimed to make it better, they justified the price increase.

FNW · Guru

time.com/money/4466052/epipen-prices-cut-mylan-gouging/

Mylan blames Obamacare.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

FNW wrote:
time.com/money/4466052/epipen-prices-cut-mylan-gouging/

Mylan blames Obamacare.

Yes they do. But the article says that the increases began long before the ACA took effect and also notes that the profit margin on the drug is HUGE.

Ohfour · Hooker

Just frickin get the generic brand. I don't understand all this outrage...

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
FNW wrote:
time.com/money/4466052/epipen-prices-cut-mylan-gouging/

Mylan blames Obamacare.
Yes they do. But the article says that the increases began long before the ACA took effect and also notes that the profit margin on the drug is HUGE.

In this instance - Obamacare is not to blame for the increased price.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Is there a generic?

Ohfour · Hooker

lilyofcourse wrote:
Is there a generic?

Yep. There are several. This is just one...

http://vitals.lifehacker.com/adrenaclick-is-a-cheaper-alternative-to-the-epipen-1785655358?utm_campaign=socialflow_lifehacker_facebook&utm_source=lifehacker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Mylan donated $250K to the Clinton Foundation. The CEO's father is a dem senator from Virginia. Take it for what it's worth.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

From 2007 to 2015 the CEO's salary rose 671 percent. THAT is the issue. Also, a true generic does not exist. Any generic that exists is an alternative drug which isn't the same thing. The patent on the drug in the EpiPen is still good and currently the profits from this one drug make up 40% of the company's revenues. Maybe they should think about developing something else instead of propping up their entire business based on one product.

Our senator is a democrat and is one of the drivers of this investigation. So the company's democratic ties aren't preventing any scrutiny.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Ohfour wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Is there a generic?

Yep. There are several. This is just one...

http://vitals.lifehacker.com/adrenaclick-is-a-cheaper-alternative-to-the-epipen-1785655358?utm_campaign=socialflow_lifehacker_facebook&utm_source=lifehacker_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow

Ok.

Thankfully, I've never had to think about it.

Ohfour · Hooker

Mellow Momma wrote:
From 2007 to 2015 the CEO's salary rose 671 percent. THAT is the issue. Also, a true generic does not exist. Any generic that exists is an alternative drug which isn't the same thing. The patent on the drug in the EpiPen is still good and currently the profits from this one drug make up 40% of the company's revenues. Maybe they should think about developing something else instead of propping up their entire business based on one product.

Our senator is a democrat and is one of the drivers of this investigation. So the company's democratic ties aren't preventing any scrutiny.

Hmmm...Well, A friend if mine that is a doctor says that he prescribes the generic. I'm gonna take his word for it...

Ohfour · Hooker

Newser) – Not since Martin Shkreli has there been such outrage over the spiking costs of a life-saving device or drug. Mylan, the maker of the EpiPen, has bumped up costs by almost 500% over the past few years, and because the drugmaker enjoys a near-monopoly on the epinephrine-delivering device—the AP notes the EpiPen patent doesn't expire until 2025—many people who rely on it to combat severe allergic reactions have been forced to pay the full hefty cost (around $600 for a two-pack) to stay safe. Unless they purchase what's the only commercially available option on the market so far, per the Washington Post: the Adrenaclick, a generic version of the EpiPen that Consumer Reports says it found at Walmart and Sam's Club for a relatively reasonable $140 and change, with a coupon. Like the EpiPen, this device releases epinephrine, and in the same exact dosages.

But there's a problem: Most people—including teachers and nurses—know how to work EpiPens, and the technology on the Adrenaclick is different, which could lead to people using them incorrectly or moving too slowly during an emergency situation, potentially leading to injuries. In fact, an American College of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology study found that people prescribed epinephrine who don't use it for at least three months risk losing their injection skills and need retraining. Another cheaper option: homemade delivery systems made from syringes that people fill with epinephrine themselves. But that could prove even more risky than the generic device, experts say, per Consumer Reports: While the Adrenaclick at least houses the same dosages of the drug, people filling their own syringes could put in too little or too much, adding another complication on top of the training issues.