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Post Info TOPIC: Are they nuts???? Manager charged with involuntary manslaughter after teen commits suicide


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Are they nuts???? Manager charged with involuntary manslaughter after teen commits suicide
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Coroner's jury leads to charge in teen's suicide

MARGARET STAFFORD,Associated Press Wed, Feb 1 4:02 PM PST 


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Yes, bullying is a problem. But throwing someone under the bus after YEARS of this kid being bullied by others is ridiculous. They certainly don't care about ruining this person's life with a ridiculous, unfounded charge. They didn't even give any examples of what this person allegedly did - while talking about the bullying that occurred at school for years.

And you know what - if your boss is bullying you, file a complaint or quit. You may have to go to school, but you don't have to work that job.

If we start blaming people for suicides b/c of WORDS, then we may as well lock up a helluva lot of teenagers right now.

Good grief - the world has gone insane.

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Nobody CAUSES another person to commit suicide. That choice is squarely on the individual. Is bullying a problem? Yes. But, instead of teaching our kids how to be RESILIENT we teach them to crumble, to be offended, to cry, to believe that their lives are over if something bad has happened to them.

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Lawyerlady wrote:

Yes, bullying is a problem. But throwing someone under the bus after YEARS of this kid being bullied by others is ridiculous. They certainly don't care about ruining this person's life with a ridiculous, unfounded charge. They didn't even give any examples of what this person allegedly did - while talking about the bullying that occurred at school for years.

And you know what - if your boss is bullying you, file a complaint or quit. You may have to go to school, but you don't have to work that job.

If we start blaming people for suicides b/c of WORDS, then we may as well lock up a helluva lot of teenagers right now.

Good grief - the world has gone insane.


 Yes, if the boss tells you to clean the floor and you don't want to then quit.  Is there anyone who hasn't worked with arseholes at some point in their lives?



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I hate bullies, as I am sure we all do. And this manager sounds like a roaring beyotch, but it is a stretch to charge her with involuntary manslaughter. no Unreal.



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So, the manager caused it but the years of bullying prior aren't responsible?

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I can't believe they are going to trial. The world has gone goofy.



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You never harass an employee.

But there were times I had to use my authority voice.

And times I had to stay on top of someone to get the job done right.

This is a witch hunt.

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lilyofcourse wrote:

You never harass an employee.

But there were times I had to use my authority voice.

And times I had to stay on top of someone to get the job done right.

This is a witch hunt.


 Oh hell, i have experienced harrassment many times.  So what? 



-- Edited by Lady Gaga Snerd on Friday 3rd of February 2017 02:41:19 PM

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if they find the manager guilty then it's not a big leap to find the franchise guilty(in a civil suit)and hope for a big payday

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So, the manager caused it but the years of bullying prior aren't responsible?   

Exactly!       



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I have put up with a lot of SCHIT in my life. However, i am grown ass woman so no biggie.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

You never harass an employee.

But there were times I had to use my authority voice.

And times I had to stay on top of someone to get the job done right.

This is a witch hunt.


 Oh hell, i have experienced harrassment many times.  So what? 



-- Edited by Lady Gaga Snerd on Friday 3rd of February 2017 02:41:19 PM


 Hmmm.  I wonder what it is you are doing to require bosses to stand over you all the time?



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I think that we need to take a realistic look at what bullying actually is. It's become some sort of buzzword for things that are perfectly normal. I had a kid the other day tell me that she was bullied at school because she walked into someone by accident and the person told her to watch where she was going.

Or the kid who is mean to other kids and then says they're bullied? Or the kid who gets stood up to for dumb stuff, or the kid who doesn't get picked for the team, whatever whatever whatever. Not bullying. The way the world works.

It's bullying if there is a power indifference or a mob mentality. If a 15 year old is beating up a 12 year old, than yes. Bullying. If the mean girl is rallying a group of girls to torment (over a long period of time, with a pattern) than yes. Bullying. If the mean girl starts a 'we hate whoever' club that makes someone feel bad for a day or so? Not bullying.

How in the world are these people going to make it in the world?! The anti-bullying thing drives me bonkers.

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one of the reasons bullying has become prevalent everywhere is that we are no longer raising MEN--we(as a country) are coddling, over-protecting, over-mothering, insulating, indoctrinating, etc. male children instead of raising them to be MEN
since the women's movement began (with steinheim and her ilk)the feminists(not all of them)have focused almost exclusively on training-out what are otherwise natural masculine traits--it has become, especially in the last 20 years or so, impermissible to be a MAN--to think and act for yourself, to honor and protect women and innocents, to honor your family and your country, to act when injustice occurs in your presence and on and on

you want bullying to stop? it never will but we can reduce it considerably if every bully (man or woman) knows that if they can't control themselves, if they hurt others intentionally and with malice, that there are enough young MEN around(as well as good grown MEN) that will stop them and that they just might get their bullying asses stomped in the process

we need to return to raising MEN

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I agree with burns.

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burns07 wrote:


one of the reasons bullying has become prevalent everywhere is that we are no longer raising MEN--we(as a country) are coddling, over-protecting, over-mothering, insulating, indoctrinating, etc. male children instead of raising them to be MEN
since the women's movement began (with steinheim and her ilk)the feminists(not all of them)have focused almost exclusively on training-out what are otherwise natural masculine traits--it has become, especially in the last 20 years or so, impermissible to be a MAN--to think and act for yourself, to honor and protect women and innocents, to honor your family and your country, to act when injustice occurs in your presence and on and on

you want bullying to stop? it never will but we can reduce it considerably if every bully (man or woman) knows that if they can't control themselves, if they hurt others intentionally and with malice, that there are enough young MEN around(as well as good grown MEN) that will stop them and that they just might get their bullying asses stomped in the process

we need to return to raising MEN


 I was a single MOTHER and raised TWO MEN.

flan



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burns07 wrote:


one of the reasons bullying has become prevalent everywhere is that we are no longer raising MEN--we(as a country) are coddling, over-protecting, over-mothering, insulating, indoctrinating, etc. male children instead of raising them to be MEN
since the women's movement began (with steinheim and her ilk)the feminists(not all of them)have focused almost exclusively on training-out what are otherwise natural masculine traits--it has become, especially in the last 20 years or so, impermissible to be a MAN--to think and act for yourself, to honor and protect women and innocents, to honor your family and your country, to act when injustice occurs in your presence and on and on

you want bullying to stop? it never will but we can reduce it considerably if every bully (man or woman) knows that if they can't control themselves, if they hurt others intentionally and with malice, that there are enough young MEN around(as well as good grown MEN) that will stop them and that they just might get their bullying asses stomped in the process

we need to return to raising MEN


 TRUTH!

It hasn't always been easy, but these two young men of mine are awesome.

 



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Tignanello wrote:

I think that we need to take a realistic look at what bullying actually is. It's become some sort of buzzword for things that are perfectly normal. I had a kid the other day tell me that she was bullied at school because she walked into someone by accident and the person told her to watch where she was going.

Or the kid who is mean to other kids and then says they're bullied? Or the kid who gets stood up to for dumb stuff, or the kid who doesn't get picked for the team, whatever whatever whatever. Not bullying. The way the world works.

It's bullying if there is a power indifference or a mob mentality. If a 15 year old is beating up a 12 year old, than yes. Bullying. If the mean girl is rallying a group of girls to torment (over a long period of time, with a pattern) than yes. Bullying. If the mean girl starts a 'we hate whoever' club that makes someone feel bad for a day or so? Not bullying.

How in the world are these people going to make it in the world?! The anti-bullying thing drives me bonkers.


 I agree. Just because someone doesn't like you or someone is mean, that is NOT bullying. 

I think it's not just men who are not being raised, it's all children. Everyone has to win, why is it not ok to fail? Kids are totally over scheduled, when do they learn how to be alone? In my (childless) opinion, parents today are not teaching their children internal validation. Kids rely way too much on what other people think, so when you get someone who's not so nice, those words have way more of an impact than they should. 



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Hooray for burns! Well said.


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Tignanello wrote:

I think that we need to take a realistic look at what bullying actually is. It's become some sort of buzzword for things that are perfectly normal. I had a kid the other day tell me that she was bullied at school because she walked into someone by accident and the person told her to watch where she was going.

Or the kid who is mean to other kids and then says they're bullied? Or the kid who gets stood up to for dumb stuff, or the kid who doesn't get picked for the team, whatever whatever whatever. Not bullying. The way the world works.

It's bullying if there is a power indifference or a mob mentality. If a 15 year old is beating up a 12 year old, than yes. Bullying. If the mean girl is rallying a group of girls to torment (over a long period of time, with a pattern) than yes. Bullying. If the mean girl starts a 'we hate whoever' club that makes someone feel bad for a day or so? Not bullying.

How in the world are these people going to make it in the world?! The anti-bullying thing drives me bonkers.


 So True Tig.  The word has become the end all to call any action that we don't like, someone offends someone and you call them a bully. That P nonsense must stop.



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flan327 wrote:
burns07 wrote:


one of the reasons bullying has become prevalent everywhere is that we are no longer raising MEN--we(as a country) are coddling, over-protecting, over-mothering, insulating, indoctrinating, etc. male children instead of raising them to be MEN
since the women's movement began (with steinheim and her ilk)the feminists(not all of them)have focused almost exclusively on training-out what are otherwise natural masculine traits--it has become, especially in the last 20 years or so, impermissible to be a MAN--to think and act for yourself, to honor and protect women and innocents, to honor your family and your country, to act when injustice occurs in your presence and on and on

you want bullying to stop? it never will but we can reduce it considerably if every bully (man or woman) knows that if they can't control themselves, if they hurt others intentionally and with malice, that there are enough young MEN around(as well as good grown MEN) that will stop them and that they just might get their bullying asses stomped in the process

we need to return to raising MEN


 I was a single MOTHER and raised TWO MEN.

flan


 Yes, but like I did, your raised your sons in the era of not coddling. Today it is different.  Why is that? because the liberal left was allowing the Past Gov't to raise their kids. Well that is over now for at least 4 years. Maybe our kids will grow a spine.



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I agree with everyone here, especially burns.

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I don't know it's even about raising men. I thinks it's more about raising kids to not run for help any time anyone looks at them sideways.

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I don't even think it's limited to the fact that society doesn't raise MEN any more. I think it's got a lot to so with society not raising ADULTS. We need to go back to parenting that includes severe and often painful consequences for misbehavior, as well as you only get a trophy if you actually win.

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I don't know that severe and painful is needed. Consequences and a severe reduction of special snowflake syndrome.

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I like watching Andy Griffith, always have.

Andy was a widowed father raising a child from birth.

He had the help of, first Rose, and then Aunt Bea.

As a kid watching, I remember thinking how cool Andy was as a dad.

Always even tempered, seemed to give enough guidance to help Opie make the right choices.

Consequences for things were handed out fairly and matter-of-factly, and I only remember 2 times Andy said he would spank Opie. 

He kept that option for truly great offenses.

But I also remember his teaching Opie how to be a man.

One episode was about Opie being bullied by an older kid.

The older kid would threaten Opie with a knuckle sandwich every morning if Opie didn't hand over his milk money.

When Andy found out what was going on, he didn't want to swoop in and fix it, he wanted Opie to learn to stand up for himself.

So, Andy told Opie a little story about having to stand up to his own bully.

It took a fist fight, but at the end of the day, the bully no longer picked on Andy.

Andy planted a seed and he let it take root without Opie feeling like he failed.

Andy gave Opie permission to defend himself.

And we watch Andy's struggle with letting his little boy grow up while waiting for Opie to come home.

When Opie does come through the door, he is dirty and bruised and grinning ear to ear.

He stood up for himself.

Andy didn't punish Opie, he embraced him, congratulates Opie and they celebrate.

Later, in another episode, years later, Opie comes up against another bully who leads Opie's friends into mischief. 

Opie refuses to be part of it and is basically ostracized from his group of friends.

When Opie is left being blamed for something he didn't do, and all his friends are facing punishment because of this one kid, Opie seeks him out, stands up to him and never throws a punch.

The other kid knew he couldn't push Opie around.

And Opie's friends thank him for standing up to the bully.

 

I watch the show now and think how different sit-come are now.

The kids are obnoxious, parents micro manage everything in the kids lives, and if the kid is being bullied the go to is "tell an adult".

Eventually, these kids are going to be the adult being told about a bully, and they will not have the skills to handle it.

No. Fighting is NOT the best or first answer.

But sometimes, you don't have to fight.

You just have to know defending yourself is ok and you have to be able to be the odd man out.

It isn't teaching your kid to hit or violence solves problems.

It's teaching them they are strong and they don't have to be part of the group.

The bully is the sad guy, the one to be pittied.

But the bully is not to be tolerated.

 



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Wow. That was long.



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That's because we are now more concerned about our kid's happiness than we are their character.

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Exactly.

In elementary schools here, they have character building activities.

Can you believe that?



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I don't even think it's limited to the fact that society doesn't raise MEN any more. I think it's got a lot to so with society not raising ADULTS. We need to go back to parenting that includes severe and often painful consequences for misbehavior, as well as you only get a trophy if you actually win.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

My post is slightly OT but the above reminded me of something I saw recently. We've all seen the bumper stickers that say my kid is an honor student at XXX school. We saw one the other day that said My kid shows great effort at XXX school. Seriously now parents are proud that their kid puts effort into their school work. My parents expected it & would have kicked my butt if I didn't.

And before anyone asks it is not a special needs school. Just a regular middle school grades 6-8.

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Not being resilient is also a character issue and a parenting issue. As a Parent, it is your job to teach your children to be strong and to learn how to deal with setbacks in life. To learn how to stand up for yourself, etc.

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I do think there is a need to recognize effort.

Real effort, of course.

Not everyone is going to be the best at everything, but there are those who work their butt off and fall short.

I remember working extremely hard trying to bring my algebra grade up.

Before school, after school, workshops, I drove my teacher nuts, but I was determined to pass that class.

I just couldn't get it.

I needed 1 point to pass.

My teacher gave me the 1 point based on my effort.

But the kid that never showed up and never tried still failed.

 



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Kids need to be taught how to cope with mean people in the world and disappointment. There will always be plenty of both in the world. Too much sheltering from life and real emotions is breeding cream puffs.

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I don't know that severe and painful is needed. Consequences and a severe reduction of special snowflake syndrome.
- Tignanello

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By "severe and painful" I didn't mean life threatening or permanently damaging. I mean something that they aren't likely to soon forget. Drop the 5 and 10 minute "time outs", and replace them with loss of ALL electronics for a year. Or if the infraction warrants a spanking, not just a couple of light swats to the butt, but enough that they won't sit comfortably for several hours.

When I misbehaved as a child I was punished in ways that made me strongly desire to not be punished for that again. And that programming led to patterns of behavior that developed into a routine way of behaving.

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