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Is Our Gov't too controlling in out Domestic Lives?
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So real life story here. 3YO leaves his house, no harm, father arrested,   WTF this situation could have happened to any of us! I get the father is not stellar but really? Arrest because a child leaves the house while parent is asleep?

Bail reduced for Londonderry man charged after son, 3, found wandering alone

By MELISSA PROULX

Union Leader Correspondent

 

 Londonderry police ask public's help identifying wandering 3-year-old

 

DERRY -- Bail was reduced Friday for a Londonderry man charged with endangering the welfare of his 3-year-old son.

 

Joseph Killgren, 35, who was arrested Thursday after his son was found wandering around without shoes Fieldstone Drive, initially faced $5,000 cash bail. During his arraignment Friday, a judge reduced bail to $1,500 cash or surety.

 

Police allege Killgren left his son unattended for several hours, according to court documents.

 

About 11:35 a.m. Thursday, police received a call that a young child was found on Fieldstone Drive. Officers found the child, brought him back to the station and began to search for his parents.

 

Police said they received a tip after putting the child’s picture out on social media and were able to contact Killgreen, who was arrested shortly after. He was held overnight in the Rockingham County jail.

 

The child was released to his mother and was not harmed, police said.

 

Killgren is out on bail on a separate drug-possession charge, which could be revoked.  He is expected to be released on bail in the Londonderry case.

 

Killgren sought the lower bail in order to focus on both cases, to continue working and to spend time with his son, according to court records.

 

“It’s going to be a lot harder for me to work on these cases and work on my relationship with my son, which is the most important relationship I have,” he said.

 

Killgren’s bail conditions did not include a no-contact order with his son.

 

Killgren pleaded not guilty to the misdemeanor charge Friday and is scheduled to return to Derry circuit court May 2.

 



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lilyofcourse


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It's ridiculous now.

Aaron was a little escape artist, good thing I had neighbors that had little escape artists as well.

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Charley Harper
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My parents have told many stories of how when I was a toddler, that I didn't see locked doors as a deterrent, I saw them as a challenge. I was always getting into places I wasn't supposed to be in, including "outside".

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Lawyerlady


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I was a sleep walker. My parents had to put special locks on the door.

This is just ridiculous.

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LawyerLady

 

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Lady Gaga Snerd


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"Police allege Killgren left his son unattended for several hours, according to court documents."

"Killgren is out on bail on a separate drug-possession charge,"


He left his 3 yr old unattended for several hours. That in itself is enough for neglect. ANd, the drug charge, quack, quack, quack.



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Lawyerlady


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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

"Police allege Killgren left his son unattended for several hours, according to court documents."

"Killgren is out on bail on a separate drug-possession charge,"


He left his 3 yr old unattended for several hours. That in itself is enough for neglect. ANd, the drug charge, quack, quack, quack.

 Sleeping is now "leaving a child unattended"?  Well, crap.  I leave mine unattended for about 7 hours every night.  Lock me up.  



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LawyerLady

 

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Yeah, the guy might not be a stellar father, but there was nothing else going on when arrested, he fell asleep.

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Lady Gaga Snerd


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Drug addicts fall asleep and dont hear their children waking up like sober people do.

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Lady Gaga Snerd


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  The judge reduced his bail btw too.



-- Edited by Lady Gaga Snerd on Saturday 1st of April 2017 09:37:19 AM

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lilyofcourse


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I wasn't a druggie, I worked 10-12 hours a night, guess my naps while the kids were watching afternoon cartoons was neglect.

My kid got out while I was giving another kid their bath.

Doors were locked.

He went out the window I didn't even know he could open.

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Lady Gaga Snerd


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lilyofcourse wrote:

I wasn't a druggie, I worked 10-12 hours a night, guess my naps while the kids were watching afternoon cartoons was neglect.

My kid got out while I was giving another kid their bath.

Doors were locked.

He went out the window I didn't even know he could open.

 What is your point?  Yeah, kids get out.  For normal parents, that happens.  I had to put hook and eye locks at the top of the doors.  And, yes, we shouldn't fine parents for that  But are you going to pretend that there aren't negligent parents?  So, if the parents are home drunk and passed out and the kid escapes is that the SAME thing as a working parent who fell asleep?  No.



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lilyofcourse


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My point is, this instance, there is NOTHING saying the dad was passed out because of substance abuse.

So, it is EXACTLY like any working parent.


And drug charges doesn't mean he uses.



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Lady Gaga Snerd


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Just because the article doesn't SAY doesnt' mean you know all the circumstances. But yeah he's had an arrest for drug possession. Usually, drug addicts have been using drugs for a long time before they even get caught. But I guess you think that those two things are the same.
But, sorry, i have seen stories where i absolutely believe the charges were wrong. This story doesnt' rise to that level.

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lilyofcourse


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I'm not going to argue with you.

This is a case of government having no business being involved.



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Lady Gaga Snerd


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We have laws about child neglect and abuse. Not sure what the problem is with that.

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flan327


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The child could have been killed.

flan

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Lady Gaga Snerd


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I agree. But, we don't arrest people for what COULD have happened necessarily.

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flan327


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Quoting you:

We have laws about child neglect and abuse. Not sure what the problem is with that.

flan

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Yes. That's what i said. That was neglectful, i agree. But, we dont' charge for what "could" have happened. We charge for what did happen. Which was neglect.

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burns07


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lord, if this kind of nonsense was going on when we were kids half the parents in the city would have been in jail

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Had he been found with drugs, the article would have said so. Newspapers love to print the dirt on people.

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My kids never "escaped," so this is a bit foreign to me.

flan

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My kids never have either but I knew a few who did.

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Lawyerlady


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One drug possession charge does not an addict make. And if he had been using or had drugs around - he would have been charged with that, also. And he was not. So the assumption that this is drug related is based on absolutely nothing.

It is not neglect to sleep. Everyone requires sleep.

Unless you think we should start locking our kids up in cages when we go to bed. Of course, that would be horrible, and how would they get out in an emergency?

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And the drug possession charge could have been pot, which many of you consider a perfectly harmless recreational drug for adults.

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lilyofcourse


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Lawyerlady wrote:

One drug possession charge does not an addict make. And if he had been using or had drugs around - he would have been charged with that, also. And he was not. So the assumption that this is drug related is based on absolutely nothing.

It is not neglect to sleep. Everyone requires sleep.

Unless you think we should start locking our kids up in cages when we go to bed. Of course, that would be horrible, and how would they get out in an emergency?

 Maybe not when we sleep, but it would have been nice to get 5 minutes in the bathroom without an audience. biggrinbiggrinbiggrin



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A 3 yr old wandering around alone needs be investigated. Not sure what is so controlling or terrible about that. I have made many comments about Police and govt overreach in many cases. This one doesn't jump out at me as something to be outraged about.

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Lawyerlady


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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

A 3 yr old wandering around alone needs be investigated. Not sure what is so controlling or terrible about that. I have made many comments about Police and govt overreach in many cases. This one doesn't jump out at me as something to be outraged about.

 Read your posts.  You said he was guilty of neglect with no prevarication whatsoever.  You are the one that assumed an absolute.  It wasn't just investigated - he was arrested.  For sleeping.  



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LawyerLady

 

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He wasn't arrested for sleeping. He was arrested for his 3 yr old child wandering the streets alone.

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lilyofcourse


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He should not have been arrested.

Maybe a visit from CPS, but not arrested.

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He wasn't arrested for sleeping. He was arrested for his 3 yr old child wandering the streets alone.
- Lady Gaga Snerd

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- because the child got out while he was sleeping. Adults sleep every now and then. Is that a crime now if you have a toddler?

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flan327


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From the OP:

Police allege Killgren left his son unattended for several hours, according to court documents.

flan

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flan327 wrote:

From the OP:

Police allege Killgren left his son unattended for several hours, according to court documents.

flan

 How many hours do you sleep a night?



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She has never slept and her children never escaped so everyone else is obviously lacking her parenting skills.

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We had gates at the top of the stairs so the boys couldn't fall if they got up in the middle of the night. I haven't had a nap since they were born, because I am a very heavy sleeper and anything could happen during that time and I would have no clue. We also have an alarm we keep on at night, with motion detectors turned on so if someone goes downstairs, it will activate. And a chime goes off when doors, etc., are opened, even if the alarm is not activated. Even so, I know where the boys are at any given point (when they are home).

There are a few "free range" children in our neighborhood who pop in from time to time. Their mothers have told us if it's not okay for them to play, to just send them home. There is a part of me that envies their ability to free themselves from worry about their children walking the streets. And there is a part of me that judges them for it as well. (I used to see them swinging from trees at the bus stop, unattended by an adult, at age 2 and 3, waiting for an older sibling to come home from school).

All that being said, I understand that "sleep happens", and situations such as escaping can and does happen. Sometimes it's born from neglect, sometimes it just happens by accident. In this situation, the drug charges jumped out at me as well. I'm not sure he should be incarcerated over it, however, absent further information. The article said the child was returned to his mother, so apparently the parents are no longer together. I would think the family courts would be better suited to determine the welfare of the child, based on an investigation into the matter.

While I do believe in laws to protect minor children, I think they have become a little too invasive.

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lilyofcourse wrote:

He should not have been arrested.

Maybe a visit from CPS, but not arrested.

 Yes, this. My guess is there is more to it than just the neglect.   Violation of visitation order, probation violation, etc.



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Lady Gaga Snerd


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I don't have a problem with police investigating why a 3 yr old is out alone.

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lilyofcourse


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I don't feel it is about not worrying, but more about letting a child be more independent.

I let mine go in and out as they pleased, they could be anywhere in the yard of our house, or our connecting neighbors yards. All the kids played all over.

But they were not allowed to go inside a house without my knowing.

I never let mine go alone across the road to go hiking because it's either a 4 mile or 10 mile hike, and there are animals in the woods.

But I worried then and I worry now about them.

That never goes away.



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Investigated, yes. Arrested is a bit much. Maybe they both laid down for a nap and the kid got up.

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lilyofcourse


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Like I said, my 3 year old climbed out a window while I was giving his brother a bath in the middle of the day.

The neighbor just happen to see him and brought him home.

I didn't even know he was out of the house.

Guess I was neglectful with all the doors locked and hooked, and being just outside of eyesight.



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The free range kids aren't allowed to go into houses either.

I let the boys walk to friends' houses in the 'hood, I just want to know when they are going and give them a time for them to return. But that didn't start until they were around 5.

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lilyofcourse


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Yeah, that I get.

Funny.

Remember being a kid and leaving out after breakfast on your bike? You had 4 hours till lunch.

Then out you went again after lunch, you had another 4-5 hours till dinner.

And then back out til dark.

No phones or anything.

Those were the days.



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I was only allowed to ride my bike around the block. Outside of that, was a very busy street with no bike lanes. But in reality, I wasn't interested in riding my bike where there was traffic. I'm still that way. Give me a bike path where no cars are allowed and I'll do it. But I was allowed to walk if I had a friend with me. We walked all over town. I still can't believe how far I walked. But we had sidewalks everywhere.

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lilyofcourse


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We didn't have blocks.

I grew up on a busy main state road.

But we had miles of wooded areas to play.

Now, there was the school that backed up to our property on one side.

We played all over that thing.

But mostly in the woods.

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flan327


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Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:

From the OP:

Police allege Killgren left his son unattended for several hours, according to court documents.

flan

 How many hours do you sleep a night?

 This was 11:35 a.m.

flan



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Maybe he works 2nd or 3rd shift?

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flan327


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Maybe he doesn't work at all...

flan

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Or he works 80 hours a week. Speculate all you want...lol

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Woods are fun to play in. Great places to built forts.

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lilyofcourse


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Yep.


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