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Post Info TOPIC: New Orleans Confederate monuments removed


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New Orleans Confederate monuments removed
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New Orleans on Monday began removing four monuments dedicated to the era of the Confederacy and its aftermath, capping a prolonged battle about the future of the memorials, which critics deemed symbols of racism and intolerance and which supporters viewed as historically important.

Workers dismantled an obelisk, which was erected in 1891 to honor members of the Crescent City White League who in 1874 fought in the Reconstruction-era Battle of Liberty Place against the racially integrated New Orleans police and state militia, Mayor Mitch Landrieu said in a statement.

The monument, which was sometimes used as a rallying point by David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan, has stirred debate for decades. Local leaders unsuccessfully tried to remove it in 1981 and 1993.

The workers were dressed in flak jackets, helmets and scarves to conceal their identities because of concerns about their safety. Police officers watched from a nearby hotel.

Pieces of the 15,000-pound monument were put on a truck and hauled away.

Other monuments expected to be removed include a bronze statue of Gen. Robert E. Lee in a traffic circle, named Lee Circle, in the city’s central business district since 1884; an equestrian statue of P.G.T. Beauregard, a Confederate general; and a statue of Jefferson Davis, the president of the Confederacy.ory

Citing security risks and threats to contractors seeking to do the work, the city would not reveal details about the removal of the other statues. The four monuments will be stored in a city-owned facility “until they can be moved to a new location where they can be placed in proper context,” said Tyronne B. Walker, a city spokesman.

The monuments were erected decades after the Civil War ended by people who wanted to demonstrate that the South should feel no guilt in having fought the war, the mayor’s statement said.

“The removal of these statues sends a clear and unequivocal message to the people of New Orleans and the nation: New Orleans celebrates our diversity, inclusion and tolerance,” Mr. Landrieu said. “This is not about politics, blame or retaliation. This is not a naïve quest to solve all our problems at once. This is about showing the whole world that we as a city and as a people are able to acknowledge, understand, reconcile — and most importantly — choose a better future.”

The debate over Confederate symbols has taken center stage since nine people were killed at a black church in South Carolina in June 2015. South Carolina removed the Confederate battle flag, which flew at its State House for more than 50 years, and other Southern cities have considered taking down monuments.

Harcourt Fuller, an assistant professor of history at Georgia State University in Atlanta, and a scholar of national and regional symbolism, said in an email that supporters of the monuments see them as part of their “historical and cultural legacy that needs to be maintained and protected.

“We’re talking largely about these concrete symbols,” he added. “By themselves, they’re lifeless. They’re not living symbols. But we as citizens project our own historical values onto them.”

The Liberty Place monument, which was 35 to 40 feet tall, commemorated a violent uprising by white Democrats against the racial integration of the city’s police force and the Republicans who governed Louisiana. The White League won the battle and forcibly removed the governor, but federal troops arrived three days later to return the governor to power.Photo

The battle remained an important symbol to those who resisted Reconstruction, the period of transforming Confederate states after the Civil War. From 1932 until 1993, the monument bore a plaque that said, in part, that the “national election of November 1876 recognized white supremacy in the South and gave us our state,” the city statement said.

In 1993, the City Council voted to remove the obelisk, but instead the plaque was covered with a new one that read: “In honor of those Americans on both sides who died in the Battle of Liberty Place” and called it “a conflict of the past that should teach us lessons for the future.”

It was once prominently perched in a main shopping era, but was relegated to a spot at the end of the French Quarter when it was removed for street work in 1989.

After moving the statues into storage, New Orleans will seek a museum or other site to house them. The city said it raised more than $600,000 in private funding to relocate the statues.

The opposition to the monuments’ removal — expressed in op-ed articles, social media posts and shouting at public meetings — was vigorous. A group opposing their removal said it had collected 31,000 signatures for a petition.

Demonstrators gathered for a candlelight vigil on Monday as workers removed the Liberty Place monument.

Robert Bonner, 63, who said he was a Civil War re-enactor, protested the monument’s removal. “I think it’s a terrible thing,” he told The A.P. “When you start removing the history of the city, you start losing money. You start losing where you came from and where you’ve been.”

The removal happened on Confederate Memorial Day, which is formally observed by Alabama and Mississippi to commemorate those who died in the Civil War.

In December 2015, the City Council voted 6 to 1 to take the statues down. In January 2016, a federal judge dismissed an attempt by preservation groups and a chapter of the Sons of Confederate Veterans to stop their removal.

An organization dedicated to preserving monuments in New Orleans, the Monumental Task Committee, opposed removing the statues.

In a statement on Monday, Pierre McGraw, the group’s president, said the removal process had been “flawed since the beginning” and that the use of unidentified money reeks of “atrocious government.”

“People across Louisiana should be concerned over what will disappear next,” the statement added.

Professor Robin A. Lenhardt, a law professor at of the Center on Race, Law and Justice at Fordham Law School, said in an email that city officials should be concerned about where to go from here.

“Simply to remove the statutes without a plan for community engagement and discourse would be a mistake, a real missed opportunity,” she wrote.



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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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OK - I have mixed feelings about this. First, I think the Liberty Place statue should have gone long ago - it was a White Supremacist statue.

I'm sad about the Robert E. Lee statue. General Lee was a good man, fighting for what he believed in - the freedom of the States from a tyrannical over-reaching federal government. But, he is not being destroyed, he is being moved to a museum.

However, this was done by elected government leaders voting to do it - that's the democratic process. This has been in the courts for nearly two years - if it was such a rallying cry issue, they could have recalled the city counsel and had another overturn the vote.

Finally, history is ever evolving and there is only so much room for statues. A better, less inciteful way to do this would have been to replace each statute with a more relevant, modern hero statue - moving the older to the museum, and making a big deal about the new one. They could have done memorials to Katrina victims and/or heros, they could have done more modern leaders. Anything, really. This trying to erase history gets people pissed.

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This is just stupid.

And removing these monuments is not going to change the past.

Not to mention the monetary loss due to the loss of tourism related to the history.



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Itty bitty's Grammy

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I have mixed feelings as well.

flan

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Hooker

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Trying to erase history.

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Itty bitty's Grammy

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I don't see it that way...just no longer glamorizing white supremacists.

flan

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Give Me Grand's!

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The removal of General Lee bothers me. The others, not so much.

Doing the removal in the dead of night is telling though.

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Hooker

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flan327 wrote:

I don't see it that way...just no longer glamorizing white supremacists.

flan


How do you know that the Generals were white supremacists?   



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My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

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Wondering how soon everything involving the confederacy is considered racist.

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Itty bitty's Grammy

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Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:

I don't see it that way...just no longer glamorizing white supremacists.

flan


How do you know that the Generals were white supremacists?   


 Ask LL. She said the same thing.

flan



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just Czech wrote:

The removal of General Lee bothers me. The others, not so much.

Doing the removal in the dead of night is telling though.


 I'm guessing they thought it would be safer for the workers.

flan



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flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:

I don't see it that way...just no longer glamorizing white supremacists.

flan


How do you know that the Generals were white supremacists?   


 Ask LL. She said the same thing.

flan


No, she said that the obelisk was a symbol of white supremacy, not the other ones... 



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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:

I don't see it that way...just no longer glamorizing white supremacists.

flan


How do you know that the Generals were white supremacists?   


 Ask LL. She said the same thing.

flan


 No, I didn't.  I said the Liberty Place statue was about White Supremacists - not General Lee.



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Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:

I don't see it that way...just no longer glamorizing white supremacists.

flan


How do you know that the Generals were white supremacists?   


 Ask LL. She said the same thing.

flan


 No, I didn't.  I said the Liberty Place statue was about White Supremacists - not General Lee.


 Sorry. I reread your post.

flan



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On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

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Of course, if anyone believes that there were any white people in 1860 that were not White Supremacists, north or south, then you are sadly misinformed about history. The north may not have all believed in slavery, but they sure didn't believe blacks equal, either. I realize as the winner of the civil war, people like to pretend differently.

The Emancipation Proclamation freeing Confederate slaves did not extend to Union slaves (and yes, there were union slaves).



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Erasing history doesn't change history. It's all so idiotic.

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Lawyerlady wrote:

Of course, if anyone believes that there were any white people in 1860 that were not White Supremacists, north or south, then you are sadly misinformed about history. The north may not have all believed in slavery, but they sure didn't believe blacks equal, either. I realize as the winner of the civil war, people like to pretend differently.

The Emancipation Proclamation freeing Confederate slaves did not extend to Union slaves (and yes, there were union slaves).


 I've actually read a fair amount about the Civil War...so yes, I agree.

flan



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Erasing history doesn't change it for those of us who remember. Doing away with historical facts / figures will eventually give way to generations who have no clue how this country was built and by whom. It's yet another way of dumbing down Americans leading in a direction none of us would ever want to see the country go.

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Give Me Grand's!

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And you know what? I kind of blame MY generation, the baby boomers for the failures of today's generation.

We were the anti-establishment protesters. The generation that protested the Vietnam War. Woodstock.

We thought we were so enlightened. Yet, we failed to instill honor in the children WE raised.

WE failed to stop deep liberalism from getting a firm foot hold in our colleges.

WE failed our children and our children's children. They will be forced to live in a repressed society, full of fear, and full of gutless wonders.

Yes, not all of us failed, but most of us did fail to pass on honor.

Liberalism wants to rewrite history, and right now, we (conservatives) can't stop them.

History is doomed to repeat itself, right here, on our own soil.

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just Czech wrote:

And you know what? I kind of blame MY generation, the baby boomers for the failures of today's generation.

We were the anti-establishment protesters. The generation that protested the Vietnam War. Woodstock.

We thought we were so enlightened. Yet, we failed to instill honor in the children WE raised.

WE failed to stop deep liberalism from getting a firm foot hold in our colleges.

WE failed our children and our children's children. They will be forced to live in a repressed society, full of fear, and full of gutless wonders.

Yes, not all of us failed, but most of us did fail to pass on honor.

Liberalism wants to rewrite history, and right now, we (conservatives) can't stop them.

History is doomed to repeat itself, right here, on our own soil.


 Umm I was past the hippy generation growing up, and I made HUGE mistakes but because of those mistakes I worked hard and drove my son to work hard and he did.  He is in no way part of this crap millennial generation and neither is his GF. I am a bit less hard on DD, simply because I have more money, but I am harder on her than her firends' parents are on her. One day she will thank me.



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Of course, if anyone believes that there were any white people in 1860 that were not White Supremacists, north or south, then you are sadly misinformed about history.
____________________________________________________________________________________________

simply not the case--and am very well-informed about the history of the war--have numerous ancestors who fought in the war and then managed to survive " reconstruction "



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Give Me Grand's!

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I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
just Czech wrote:

And you know what? I kind of blame MY generation, the baby boomers for the failures of today's generation.

We were the anti-establishment protesters. The generation that protested the Vietnam War. Woodstock.

We thought we were so enlightened. Yet, we failed to instill honor in the children WE raised.

WE failed to stop deep liberalism from getting a firm foot hold in our colleges.

WE failed our children and our children's children. They will be forced to live in a repressed society, full of fear, and full of gutless wonders.

Yes, not all of us failed, but most of us did fail to pass on honor.

Liberalism wants to rewrite history, and right now, we (conservatives) can't stop them.

History is doomed to repeat itself, right here, on our own soil.


 Umm I was past the hippy generation growing up, and I made HUGE mistakes but because of those mistakes I worked hard and drove my son to work hard and he did.  He is in no way part of this crap millennial generation and neither is his GF. I am a bit less hard on DD, simply because I have more money, but I am harder on her than her firends' parents are on her. One day she will thank me.


 You have done an awesome job of raising your children to be responsible contributing members of society. My kids are not a part of the crazy left either.

My comment was meant as a generalization. But, a lot of these college kids (the deep left ones) have parents born and raised in the 50's, 60's and early 70's.

The university here in Nebraska is also rift with deep liberalism within the teaching departments. THESE people are our age or younger, influencing this crazy mindset within the youth.

Gosh, even kids with conservative leanings, within the colleges, are being denied free speech.

Granted, as parents, we are all going to make mistakes, but the kids usually survive intact and thrive regardless of how stupid I may have been. smile

I always told my kids I was going to make sure they supported a psychologist anyway. wink



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Frozen Sucks!

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And where in this conversation is the FACT the BLACK tribes in Africa raided other black tribes raping and pillaging their villages and selling the people to others all over the world? I learned history how it actually happened, not the blame game on the US.

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Give Me Grand's!

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I know what to do_sometimes wrote:

And where in this conversation is the FACT the BLACK tribes in Africa raided other black tribes raping and pillaging their villages and selling the people to others all over the world? I learned history how it actually happened, not the blame game on the US.


 Exactly.

Muslims are still engaged in owning/selling slaves. The muslim countries are rift with slavery. Today!



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Destruction/removal of the art/statues of a particular age or rule have always undergone destruction by the new ruling class. Greeks destroyed the temples and statues of Rome and Rome destroyed the temples and statues of Greece. At one point, some rulers went around pulling the penises off of statues because they weren't virtuous enough. The Nazis stole art. They destroyed libraries.

The library at Vesuvius was destroyed and burned. This has been happening throughout the ages. It will continue to happen as the values and preferences of the ruling class change. At some point it will all end up in a museum with people talking about how this and that came to be.

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I take no issue with the removal of the Liberty Place monument, as Lawyerlady said, that was a monument to White Supremacy.

Anyone that knows the true history of the Civil War though, they know that General Lee was a good man, (also as mentioned by Lawyerlady) who's actions were nothing but the honorable fight in defense of his state against an oppressive an unconstitutionally acting Federal government.

The same for General P.G.T. Beauregard and Confederate President Jefferson Davis.

It saddens me how many people accept the desecration of the facts of the Civil War and that future generations will never know the truth.

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