TOTALLY GEEKED!

Cheerios4606 · Guru

Do his beliefs inhibit his ability to serve in public office?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

If they deny him a job based upon his religious beliefs - that is a violation of the Constitution and his religious freedom.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

People's beliefs are their beliefs. If they run for public office and are eligible citizens to run for office and they win, then their beliefs are their beliefs. If that is the case, then we shouldn't allow atheists to do anything since this is one nation UNDER GOD.

WYSIWYG · Guru

Whether a person's beliefs disqualify them from a job depends on two consecutive things:

#1 Does he or she have to make decisions that affect people that have different beliefs?

And if yes then:
#2 Can he or she do the job independently of their beliefs, separating their beliefs from the actual job itself?

Just as I wouldn't want a Muslim enforcing Sharia law on me, a non-Muslim; I don't think it's right for a Christian to force Christian law or doctrine on a non-Christian.

That's the great part of separation of Church and State. I can't be forced to go against my religious beliefs because someone of a different faith is in government with power over my life. No one can be forced to. It has to apply to all, or it can't apply to any.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

When it comes to an elected position - you can vote based on whatever criteria you want, including religion, but both our Constitution and our anti-discrimination laws say you can't base employee decisions on religion - period. Just like gender, race, etc.

FNW · Guru

I wonder if this man were a Muslim would he be facing the same scrutiny from Bernie?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

This is absurd. If you are eligible to run for office and you run and win, then you are then allowed to "vote your conscience" when you are in govt. FYI Bernie, Christians invented our Govt.

Tignanello · My dog name is, Sasha!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
People's beliefs are their beliefs. If they run for public office and are eligible citizens to run for office and they win, then their beliefs are their beliefs. If that is the case, then we shouldn't allow atheists to do anything since this is one nation UNDER GOD.

psssst .... muslims worship the same God .....

chef · Guru

Tignanello wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
People's beliefs are their beliefs. If they run for public office and are eligible citizens to run for office and they win, then their beliefs are their beliefs. If that is the case, then we shouldn't allow atheists to do anything since this is one nation UNDER GOD.
psssst .... muslims worship the same God .....

No. They don't. God and Allah are not the same.

WYSIWYG · Guru

This is absurd. If you are eligible to run for office and you run and win, then you are then allowed to "vote your conscience" when you are in govt. FYI Bernie, Christians invented our Govt.
- Lady gaga Snerd

_______________________________________

You aren't allowed to vote your conscience if that vote goes against the Constitution's separation of Church and State.

Deists had the most to do with the creation of our Government. Had it been Christians I think there would have been at least one direct mention of God somewhere in the founding documents. As it is there aren't any mentions of God directly. And there's only one indirect mention of any god (lowercase "g"), "Nature's God", in the very first paragraph of The Declaration of Independence.

"
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
"

WYSIWYG · Guru

No. They don't. God and Allah are not the same.
- chef

___________________________________

They are different names for the same being. both are the God of Abraham. Christianity and Islam are both Abrahamic religions. Where they differ is that Christians believe that Christ is the risen Son of God, and Muslims believe Christ was just a man who believed himself to be a prophet, but is a false one, and they believe that Muhammad was the real Prophet of God, and was shown the true word.

I don't agree with Islam, obviously, but it's simply untrue to state that there are different Gods involved.

Even Pope Francis says Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

WYSIWYG · Guru

People's beliefs are their beliefs. If they run for public office and are eligible citizens to run for office and they win, then their beliefs are their beliefs. If that is the case, then we shouldn't allow atheists to do anything since this is one nation UNDER GOD.
- Lady Gaga Snerd

_______________________________________________

Are you aware that "Under God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in 1954 to help combat the ungodly communist threat to our nation? Before that Our country never pledged "one nation, under God, indivisible". It was simply "One nation, indivisible" before that.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Try the Declaration of Independence.

Ohfour · Hooker

WYSIWYG wrote:
No. They don't. God and Allah are not the same.
- chef

___________________________________

They are different names for the same being. both are the God of Abraham. Christianity and Islam are both Abrahamic religions. Where they differ is that Christians believe that Christ is the risen Son of God, and Muslims believe Christ was just a man who believed himself to be a prophet, but is a false one, and they believe that Muhammad was the real Prophet of God, and was shown the true word.

I don't agree with Islam, obviously, but it's simply untrue to state that there are different Gods involved.

Even Pope Francis says Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

I don't give a rats a$$ what the Pope says. He's a man. Just a man. Period. And he's wrong.

Cheerios4606 · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
No. They don't. God and Allah are not the same.
- chef

___________________________________

They are different names for the same being. both are the God of Abraham. Christianity and Islam are both Abrahamic religions. Where they differ is that Christians believe that Christ is the risen Son of God, and Muslims believe Christ was just a man who believed himself to be a prophet, but is a false one, and they believe that Muhammad was the real Prophet of God, and was shown the true word.

I don't agree with Islam, obviously, but it's simply untrue to state that there are different Gods involved.

Even Pope Francis says Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

NO THEY ARE NOT THE SAME GOD DONT EVEN GO THERE OTHERWISE I WILL BURN UP THIS FORUM WITH A LITNY OF REFERENCES OF HOW THEY ARE FECKING NOT THE SAME GOD.

Lindley · Guru

Cheerios4606 wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
No. They don't. God and Allah are not the same.
- chef

___________________________________

They are different names for the same being. both are the God of Abraham. Christianity and Islam are both Abrahamic religions. Where they differ is that Christians believe that Christ is the risen Son of God, and Muslims believe Christ was just a man who believed himself to be a prophet, but is a false one, and they believe that Muhammad was the real Prophet of God, and was shown the true word.

I don't agree with Islam, obviously, but it's simply untrue to state that there are different Gods involved.

Even Pope Francis says Christians and Muslims worship the same God.
NO THEY ARE NOT THE SAME GOD DONT EVEN GO THERE OTHERWISE I WILL BURN UP THIS FORUM WITH A LITNY OF REFERENCES OF HOW THEY ARE FECKING NOT THE SAME GOD.

I agree Cheerio, I believe they worship a moon God.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

There is only one true God.

WYSIWYG · Guru

NO THEY ARE NOT THE SAME GOD DONT EVEN GO THERE OTHERWISE I WILL BURN UP THIS FORUM WITH A LITNY OF REFERENCES OF HOW THEY ARE FECKING NOT THE SAME GOD.
- Cheerios4606

__________________________________________

If it burns up some excess energy that you need to get rid of, fire away. Christianity and Islam are both Abrahamic religions. Meaning that they follow the God of Abraham. Jesus and Mohammad may have given different messages, but they both espoused that they were speaking for the same God.

Of course those of us who are Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and believe in His message and believe the message of Mohammad to be false, just as those that are Muslim believe the message of Jesus to be false and the message of Mohammad to be true.

To say though that they are different gods however is ludicrous. That would be tantamount to saying that Abraham had two gods whom he believed in, and Christians and Muslims each picked from them.

A little research on the subject might be helpful. I suggest the following - www.patheos.com/blogs/formerlyfundie/yes-christians-and-muslims-worship-the-same-god-but-heres-what-that-means-doesnt/

The article makes one very good point. "Allah" is just a word for God in Arabic. It's no different than "Dios" in Spanish. Arabic speaking Christians also pray to "Allah". Do we say Spanish speakers aren't praying to Christian God when they "Orar por la intercesión de Dios para ayudar a sanar a alguien" (English translation: "pray for the intercession of God to help heal someone")?

Lindley · Guru

God has referee to himself by many names, El Shaddah, Emmanuel, Jehovah....... There were many more but never Allah .

Cheerios4606 · Guru

Just because the descendants come from the same father does not mean they worship the same God. Isaac and his descendants always worshiped the God of Abraham however Hagar wasnt even an israelite, she was an egyptian. She didn't worship the God of Abraham. So it is no surprize to say her descendants have been worshiping a god other than the God of Abraham.

My God came to earth and died on a cross for me. The god of Islam insists you die for him. Just TRY to tell a muslim their god came to earth to die for them and you will probably be stoned to death. The God of Abraham is represented in three part harmony. The god of islam is a singular thing.

(copy paste from website)

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/jesus-muhammad.aspx

Comparing Islam and Christianity

Muhammad...

Jesus...

Stoned women for adultery.
(Muslim 4206)

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
(John 8:7)

"I have been commanded to fight
against people till they testify that there
is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad
is the messenger of Allah"
(Muslim 1:33)

"He who lives by the sword
will die by the sword."
(Matthew 26:52)

Permitted stealing from unbelievers.
(Bukhari 44:668, Ibn Ishaq 764)

"Thou shalt not steal."
(Matthew 19:18)

Permitted lying.
(Sahih Muslim 6303, Bukhari 49:857)

"Thou shalt not bear false witness."
(Matthew 19:18)

Owned and traded slaves.
(Sahih Muslim 3901)

Neither owned nor traded slaves.

Beheaded 800 Jewish men and boys.
(Abu Dawud 4390)

Beheaded no one.

Murdered those who insulted him.
(Bukhari 56:369, 4:241)

Preached forgiveness.
(Matthew 18:21-22, 5:38)

"If then anyone transgresses
the prohibition against you,
Transgress ye likewise against him"
(Quran 2:194)

"If someone strikes you on the right
cheek, turn to him the other also."
(Matthew 5:39)

Jihad in the way of Allah elevates one's position in Paradise by a hundred fold.
(Muslim 4645)

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for
they will be called Sons of God"
(Matthew 5:9)

Married 13 wives and kept sex slaves.
(Bukhari 5:268, Quran 33:50)

Was celibate.

Slept with a 9-year-old child.
(Sahih Muslim 3309, Bukhari 58:236)

Did not have sex with children.

Ordered the murder of women.
(Ibn Ishaq 819, 995)

Never harmed a woman.

"O you who believe! Fight those of the
unbelievers who are near to you
and let them find in you hardness."
(Quran 9:123)

"Blessed are the meek, for
they shall inherit the earth."
(Matthew 5:5)

Ordered 65 military campaigns
and raids in his last 10 years.
(Ibn Ishaq )

Ordered no military campaigns, nor
offered any approval of war or violence.

Killed captives taken in battle.
(Ibn Ishaq 451)

Never took captives.
Never killed anyone.

Encouraged his men to rape enslaved women.
(Abu Dawood 2150, Quran 4:24)

Never encouraged rape.
Never enslaved women.

Demanded captured slaves and
a fifth of all other loot taken in war.
(Quran 8:41)

"The Son of Man came not
to be served, but to serve."
(Matthew 20:28)

Was never tortured, but tortured others.
(Muslim 4131, Ibn Ishaq 436, 595, 734, 764)

Suffered torture, but never tortured anyone.

"And fight them until there is no more persecution and religion is only for Allah"
(Quran 8:39)

"Love your enemies and pray
for those who persecute you"
(Matthew 5:44)

Blessed the brutal murder of a half-blind man
(al-Tabari 1440)

Healed a blind man
(Mark 8:28)

Ordered a slave to build the very pulpit
from which he preached Islam.
(Bukhari 47:743)

Washed his disciples feet.
(John 13:5)

What are the Greatest Commandments?
"Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause"
(Muslim 1:149)

What are the Greatest Commandments?
"Love God and love thy neighbor as thyself."
(Matthew 22:34-40)

Demanded the protection of armed bodyguards, even in a house of worship
(Quran 4:102)

Chastised anyone attempting
to defend him with force.
(John 18:10-12)

Died fat and wealthy from what was
taken from others in war or
demanded from others in tribute.

Demanded nothing for himself.
Died without possessions.

Advocated crucifying others.
(Quran 5:33, Muslim 16:4131)

Was crucified himself.

According to his followers:
Had others give their lives for him.
(Sahih Muslim 4413)

According to his followers:
Gave his life for others.
(John 18:11 and elsewhere)

Cheerios4606 · Guru

Differences Between
Early Muslims and Christians

Muhammad's
Companions...

Jesus's
Disciples...

Lived as warriors.

Lived like harmless hippies.

Slew and persecuted religious minorities.

(In the early days of Islam you
could be killed for not being Muslim)

Were slain and persecuted
as a religious minority.

(In the early days of Christianity you
could be killed for being Christian)

Emphasis on Jihad (the way of Muhammad)

"He who fights that Allah's word should
be superior fights in Allah's cause"
(Bukhari 53:355)

Emphasis on Evangelism (the way of Jesus)

"Go ye into all the world and preach
the gospel to every creature"
(Matthew 15:16)

Attacked and conquered the populations in
parts of 28 modern countries in just the first
three decades following Muhammad's death.

Did not resort to violence of any sort,
despite tremendous persecution.

Declared holy war on the people of five
major world religions in just the first
100 years following Muhammad's death.

Went centuries without declaring 'holy war'.

Plundered and lived off the wealth of others.

Gave away their possessions to those in need.
(Acts 2:44-45)

Captured and enslaved non-Muslim people.

Considered themselves to be slaves of others.

Waged war to keep members from leaving
the religion. Put apostates to death.

No record of aggression toward apostates.

Muhammad's own family members quickly
fell into armed warfare against each other.

Jesus' disciples never resorted to violence
against one another (or anyone else).

First 240 Years:
11 of the first 32 caliphs were
murdered by fellow Muslims.

First 240 Years:
14 of the first 25 popes were martyred by
pagans (none by fellow Christians).

Caliphs were polygamous and maintained harems of hundreds of captured sex slaves.

Popes were expected to be celibate.

Islamic mosques sustained by taxes forced from subjugated non-Muslims (the jizya).

Christian churches sustained
by voluntary tithes from Christians.

Differences Between
Islamic Teaching and Christianity

The Quran

The Bible

External sources (the Hadith and Sira) necessary for translating the Quran

Historical context contained
within the text of the Bible

Must know Arabic in order to "fully understand" the Quran (according to Muslim apologists)

Universal. Can be translated into other languages without excessive commentary.

Chronological progression of the
Quran is from peace to violence.

Chronological progression of the
Bible is from violence to peace.

The words 'torture' and 'punishment' appear six times more often in the Quran than in the New Testament.

The word 'love' appears five times more often in the New Testament than than in the Quran,

Contains not a single original moral value.

The 'Sermon on the Mount' and others.

Suffering is an excuse for violent revenge
and establishment of Islam by force

"And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
(Quran 2:191)

Suffering builds character

"We also rejoice in our sufferings,
because we know that suffering
produces perseverance; perseverance,
character; and character, hope"
(Romans 5:4)

Emphasis on this World

"And Allah has made you heirs to their land
and their dwellings and their property"
(Quran 33:27)

Emphasis on the Next

"Mine is not a kingdom of this world"
(John 18:36, see also Luke 14:33)

Kill, convert or subjugate Christians and Jews.
(Quran 9:29)

Share one's faith with gentleness and respect.
(1 Peter 3:15)

Martyrs as Killers

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain"
(Quran 9:111)

Martyrs as Martyrs

"As it is written, For thy sake we are
killed all the day long; we are
counted as sheep for the slaughter"
(Romans 8:36)

Killing Apostates

"They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"
(Quran 4:89, also Bukhari 52:260, 83:37...)

Letting God Judge Apostates

"For we know Him that has said,
'Vengeance belongs unto me, I will
recompense,' says the Lord. And again,
'The Lord shall judge his people'"
(Hebrews 10:25-30)

Punishment

"Let not compassion move you
from carrying out God's law..."
(Quran 24:2)

Mercy

"Love is patient. Love is kind...
It keeps no record of wrongs"
(1 Corinthians 13:4-5)

Charity and Non-Believers

Mercy toward fellow Muslims - ruthlessness toward unbelievers. Muslims are warned not to befriend those outside the faith. They must even ensure that their charity tithe (zakat)
stays within their own identity group.
(Quran 48:29, 3:28, Sharia)

Charity and Non-Believers

Christians are specifically told that even
those who hate them are entitled to
kindness and charity. They should be loved
and cared for as surely as any fellow believer.
(Mark 10:25-37)

The Qur'an explicitly instructs men to
beat disobedient wives - as a last resort.
(Quran 4:34, Sahih Muslim 2127)

"Husbands, love your wives and
do not be harsh with them."
(No permission to beat women)
(Colossians 3:19)

Explicitly allows Muslim men to rape their female slaves, even those already married.
(Quran 4:24, 70:29-30, 23:5-6...)

Tells masters and slaves to serve
each other as if serving God.
(Ephesians 6:7-9)

Muhammad is the messenger
of Allah. And those who are with him
are ruthless to the unbelievers"
(Quran 48:29)

"Do good to them that hate you"
(Luke 6:27)

Allah wills unbelievers to stray and be lost
(Quran 16:93)

God wants all people saved
(1 Timothy 2:4)

Warns Against Questioning Faith.
(Quran 5:101-102)

Welcomes Intellectual Challenge.
(1 Peter 3:15)

Violence as Virtue

"Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye
dislike it. But it is possible that ye
dislike a thing which is good for you, and
that ye love a thing which is bad for you.
But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
(Quran 2:216)

Violence as Sin

"Do not take revenge, my friends, but
leave room for God's wrath, for it is written:
'It is mine to avenge; I will repay,' says the Lord. On the contrary: 'If your enemy
is hungry, feed him... '"
(Romans 12:19-20)

Hell for unbelief.
Good deeds count for naught
(Quran 18:102-107)

Hell for bad deeds and the
failure to do what is right
(Romans 2:6-8, Matthew 16:27, Matthew 25:41-45)

Judging

"Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them..."
(Quran 9:73)

Judge Not

"For when you pass judgment on another person, you condemn yourself..."
(Romans 2:1)

Taking wealth from others

"Allah promiseth you much
booty that ye will capture..."
(Quran 48:20)

Working for and giving wealth to others

"The thief must no longer steal but must
work hard and do what is good with his
own hands, so that he might have
something to give to the needy."
(Ephesians 4:28)

Calls down Allah's curse on Christians
and those of other religions.
(Quran 9:30)

Calls down God's blessing on
those who curse Christians.
(Matthew 5:44)

Arrogance & Privilege

"Ye are the best of peoples,
evolved for mankind"
(Quran 3:110)

Humility & Servitude

"If anyone wants to be first, he must make himself last of all and servant of all."
(Mark 9:35)

"O you who believe! do not take My
enemy and your enemy for friends:
Would you offer them love while they deny what has come to you of the truth?
(Quran 60:1)

"Love your enemies..."
(Luke 6:27)

Differences Between the Islamic
and Christian-Based Worlds

Muslim Legacy

Christian Legacy

Countries that Muslims want to escape from.

Countries that Muslims want to escape to.

Madrassahs that indoctrinate Muslim
children with bigotry and terror.

Mission schools that teach reading and
writing to Christians and Muslims alike.

Suicide bombings for Allah

No suicide bombings for Jesus

International terror organizations.

International charities.

No formal charities for non-Muslims.

Leading provider of disaster relief to Muslims.

Murder of aid workers.

Supply of aid workers.

Christians in jail for apostasy or blasphemy.

Religious freedom.

Modern-day slavery in the name of Islam.

Abolition in the name of Christianity.

Muslim clerics who engage
in or condone terrorism.

Christian clerics murdered each year by
terror groups rife with Muslim clerics.

Daily religious violence against Hindus.

None.

Daily religious violence against Jews.

None.

Daily religious violence against Buddhists.

None.

Daily religious violence against Muslims.

None.

Ritual slitting of animals' throats

Ending of animal sacrifice

Religion

Technology & Medicine

Censorship

Freedom of speech

Intolerance for criticism of Islam.

Tolerance for religious dissent.

Restricting other religions from preaching faith.

Allowing all religions the
same right to evangelize.

Conversions allowed to Islam only.

Freedom of conscience.

Converts to Christianity beheaded.

No dead converts to Islam.

Most famous Muslim: Osama bin Laden.

Most famous Christian: The Pope.

Whether true or not, everything that secular critics say they don't like about Christianity, from women's issues to slavery, is not only a tangible part of Islam, but usually magnified.

While the Catholic church is castigated for not allowing female priests, the fundamentalists of Islam force women into burqas and blow up schools that educate girls. Even activists known for championing women's rights in the Muslim world rationalize keeping captured women as sex slaves, since it is explicitly permitted in the Quran.

While Christians usually object to extra-marital sex, only Islamic purists plant consenting adults in the ground and stone them to death. And, if a gay couple doesn't get a wedding cake from a Baptist baker, this hardly compares to being thrown off a high building.

Theocracy (in the form of Sharia) really is the the explicit goal of Islamic teaching, whereas Christianity leaves room for the separation of religion and government (Mark 12:17, John 18:36). Terrorism reallyis an expression of devotion to Allah and not just criminal activity or warfare by disinterested parties with a nominal religious identification (ie. "born a Catholic").

If threatening people with eternal damnation is considered distasteful, then Christianity has far less to be ashamed of than Islam, which not only alludes to the terrible fate awaiting unbelievers in nearly every other chapter of the Quran, but includes vivid descriptions of torture at the hands of a psychopathic god.

The two religions contrast sharply even in their positive aspects. The morality of the Quran is amateurish and frustratingly obscure for those trying to compare it with what is contained in the Bible. Most of Islam's holiest book is devoted toward distinguishing and heaping abuse on unbelievers. There are no verses that promote universal love and brotherhood. The few verses that are sometimes held up as examples of tolerance and peace generally require separation from textual and historical context.

The difference between Christianity and Islam starts at the top: Muslims are told that their prophet Muhammad - a slave-owner, sexual glutton, thief and killer - is the most "beautiful pattern of conduct" and "example" for mankind to follow (Quran 33:21), as well as the "exalted standard of character" (Quran 68:4).

Christians are told to emulate Jesus - a pacifist and servant - and "walk, even as he walked" (1 John 2:6). Unlike Muhammad, who ordered military assaults against Christians, for example, Jesus told his followers not to resort to violence and to pray for one's enemies.

These two men could hardly have been more different in how they lived or in what they taught others. Why should we not expect starkly contrasting legacies - from the conduct of their closest companions to the livability of modern-day countries influenced by the predominance of one founder's teachings over the other?

As Wafa Sultan (who describes herself as a Muslim who does not adhere to Islam) puts it: "The problem with Christians is they aren't as good as Jesus. But thank God most Muslims are better than Muhammad."

Cheerios4606 · Guru

Furthermore, Muslims claim that Allah has no son.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Well, to be specific - those are the differences in the followers of each religion, and the teachings for each religion.

Cheerios4606 · Guru

1. Do you believe in the “God of Israel”? Those who cannot answer this question in the affirmative do not believe in the same God that believing Jews and the majority of believing Christians do. As for Muslims, they should have no problem answering in the affirmative. But in our time, at least, many wouldn’t. The God of Israel is, among other things, the God introduced to the world by the Jews and their Bible: the God who created the world, revealed Himself to the Jews, and made His moral will known through the Ten Commandments and the Hebrew Prophets.

Read more at: www.nationalreview.com/article/434221/jews-christians-muslims-do-they-believe-same-god

Cheerios4606 · Guru

How anyone can say muslims and christians worship the same God sets my blood boiling. There is nothing about the two that are compatible let alone resembling continuity.

Cheerios4606 · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Well, to be specific - those are the differences in the followers of each religion, and the teachings for each religion.

Garbage in garbage out. If you worship and fastidiously follow a garbage god, you are going to get garbage behavior. If you worship and fastidiously follow the God of Abraham, well you are going to get something much different.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Cheerios4606 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Well, to be specific - those are the differences in the followers of each religion, and the teachings for each religion.
Garbage in garbage out. If you worship and fastidiously follow a garbage god, you are going to get garbage behavior. If you worship and fastidiously follow the God of Abraham, well you are going to get something much different.

You are speaking of the religion and how people follow it, not the God.

As an analogy, Trump is President. There are a whole lot of different reactions in this country to that fact, there are different acts, beliefs, etc. How those people act, and what they do and say does not change the fact that there is one President of this country.

There is only one true God.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

There are some pretty terrible Christians out there, too, and they worship God. But they don't do it in accordance with God's teachings.

Cheerios4606 · Guru

So you believe they are the same god?

Edit: Let me know if you run into a muslim that believes their God is also the God of Israel.

-- Edited by Cheerios4606 on Wednesday 14th of June 2017 05:03:06 PM

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Cheerios4606 wrote:
So you believe they are the same god?

Edit: Let me know if you run into a muslim that believes their God is also the God of Israel.

-- Edited by Cheerios4606 on Wednesday 14th of June 2017 05:03:06 PM

I believe there is only ONE God. I have no idea who they are worshiping. But if they are worshiping the God of creation, that's our God. They don't worship him properly, and Mohammed bastardized what religion is supposed to be. Mormans worship our God, Jehovah's witnesses worship our God. They have just allowed man to add to the scripture so much as to pervert it.

And also - what a Muslim does or does not believe has no bearing on what I believe. The Jews worship our God of Creation - they have just not accepted Christ as the son of God and our savior. They do not believe in the Holy Trinity - does they mean they don't worship the same God?

Who is anyone to say it is not the same God based upon the actions of fallen man? If we judged God by the actions of his followers, that would be a problem, because I've yet to meet a perfect person of any religion.

I guess to say it simply - the actions of man do not change the fact of ONE God.

-- Edited by Lawyerlady on Wednesday 14th of June 2017 07:27:22 PM

WYSIWYG · Guru

Edit: Let me know if you run into a muslim that believes their God is also the God of Israel.
- Cheerios4606

______________________________________________

Every Muslim believes that their God is the God of Abraham. Just as every Christian believes that their God is the God of Abraham, just as every Jew believes their God is the God of Abraham.

So you are asking the wrong question. Ask them if they follow the God of Abraham.

Cheerios4606 · Guru

The God I worship is personified in three. Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Their god is not.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Cheerios4606 wrote:
The God I worship is personified in three. Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Their god is not.

Neither is the Jewish God, but you aren't going to seriously try to say that is not the God of the Old Testament they worship, are you?

Cheerios4606 · Guru

I leave judgement to that to God seeing how he said the Jews are his people.

So now that I am sufficiently convinced you think the muslim God and the Christian God is the same, how about you offer some counter reasons as to why we all worship the same God rather than pick my beliefs apart? Something other than the fact that the descendants share some dna mkay?

Cheerios4606 · Guru

You know what, nevermind. My opinion of you has seriously taken a hit and I really dont think I want to go further.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

What is wrong with you? Pick your beliefs apart? You are the one screaming that you are the only one that is right. I'm trying to have a civil discussion. I'm not picking your beliefs apart - you are the one belittling the beliefs of others. And you completely ignored the point about Jews and Christians worshiping the same God b/c you can't reconcile that with your argument even though you KNOW it's true. The Jews are God's chosen people, and they do not believe in Christ as the savior, so they do not believe in your version of God.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

The question is simple. Do you believe there is only one true God? Because if you do, they you must understand that Muslims are worshiping the same God.

You are confusing differences in theology with the existence of multiple divine beings.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Larycia Hawkins, a professor at Wheaton College in Illinois, decided to wear a headscarf during the Advent season as a gesture of solidarity with Muslims. In doing so, Hawkins quoted Pope Francis, saying that Christians and Muslims "worship the same God."

But some evangelical Christians disagree — and Wheaton, a Christian school, responded by putting the political science professor on paid administrative leave. The college says it needs time to review whether her statement puts her at odds with the faith perspective required of those who work there.

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Larycia Hawkins, associate professor of political science at Wheaton College.

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The case also raises some big questions of theology.

Most mainstream Muslims would generally agree they worship the same God that Christians — or Jews — worship. Zeki Saritoprak, a professor of Islamic studies at John Carroll University in Cleveland, points out that in the Quran there's the Biblical story of Jacob asking his sons whom they'll worship after his death.

"Jacob's sons replied, 'We will worship the God of your fathers' — Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac. He is the God," Saritoprak says. "So this God that Jacob worshipped, this God that Abraham, Isaac worshipped, is the same God that Muslims worship today."

Christians, however, believe in a triune God: God the father, God the son (Jesus Christ) and the Holy Spirit. And many evangelicals will say that means Muslims and Jews do not worship the same god as Christians.

"The question basically comes down to whether one can reject Jesus Christ as the Son and truly know God the Father," says Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. "And it's Christ himself who answered that question, most classically in the Gospel of John, and he said that to reject the Son means that one does not know the Father."

But Christians themselves differ on this question. The Second Vatican Council, speaking to Catholics back in 1964, affirmed that Muslims "together with us adore the one, merciful God." And Amy Plantinga Pauw, a professor of Christian theology at Louisville Seminary, says Christians can have their own definition of God while still seeing commonality with Muslims and Jews.

"To say that we worship the same God is not the same as insisting that we have an agreed and shared understanding of God," Pauw says.

One theologian with knowledge of both Christian and Islamic doctrine is Hamza Yusuf, president of Zaytuna College in Berkeley, Calif., the first Muslim liberal arts college in the U.S. Born Mark Hanson, he was raised as a Christian and then converted to Islam. He quotes the Quran as saying that God is immeasurable, so to define God in some particular way is impossible.

"God is much greater than anything we can imagine," Yusuf says. "The Muslims have a statement in our theology: Whatever you imagine God to be, God is other than that."

At Louisville Seminary, which is affiliated with the Presbyterian Church, Pauw says she's preparing her students for Christian ministries that are likely to involve work with people of other faith traditions, and she says she'd like them to remember that no religious community can claim God's favor.

"No one is in a position of saying, 'Well, we know exactly how God works in the world, and my particular group has a monopoly on that,' " Pauw says.

She adds: "There are certainly Muslims who will say that. There are certainly Christians who will say that. But it's out of my own Christian conviction that I think we have to approach these issues with a kind of humility and kind of generosity toward others, because God's ways are not our ways."

In its statement about Professor Hawkins' view that Muslims and Christians worship the same God, Wheaton College emphasizes its rejection of religious prejudice and its commitment to treat and speak about neighbors with love and respect, as Jesus commanded people to do. But, the statement says, "our compassion must be infused with theological clarity."

WYSIWYG · Guru

Wherever you got that, Lawyerlady, it was very well put.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

To me, the answer is very simple.

There is only ONE God.

Everyone on the planet is a child of that ONE God whether they believe it or not, or whether they worship properly.

God loves all his children equally.

Mary Zombie · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
There are some pretty terrible Christians out there, too, and they worship God. But they don't do it in accordance with God's teachings.

I agree. Don't be angry at different names for the same God but reserve the anger for those that pervert their religion by even deeds. Christian's have been guilty of the same things Like the crusades? And I'm A Christian.

Nothing to get fired up and offended by IMO

-- Edited by Mary Zombie on Tuesday 20th of June 2017 09:35:19 AM

TOTALLY GEEKED!

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