TOTALLY GEEKED!

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

RE: And so Religious freedom is no longer...

chillepeppa · Regular

From what I understand from the article, the issue the city has is the lawsuit from the church regarding the city's rejection of the church's petition on grounds that the church disregarded policies and procedures when obtaining the signatures for the petition. They are thus subpoenaed for the communications(which does include sermons that includes certain keywords pertaining to this case) from the churches to to their members that could identify the procedures the church followed and identify whether the church's petition is valid or not.

It is not about the hallowed content of their sermons at all.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

chillepeppa wrote:
From what I understand from the article, the issue the city has is the lawsuit from the church regarding the city's rejection of the church's petition on grounds that the church disregarded policies and procedures when obtaining the signatures for the petition. They are thus subpoenaed for the communications(which does include sermons that includes certain keywords pertaining to this case) from the churches to to their members that could identify the procedures the church followed and identify whether the church's petition is valid or not.

It is not about the hallowed content of their sermons at all.

Which is why the subpoena for them is so very, very wrong.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

A petition requires signatures. To determine if a petition is valid - simply contact the people on the petition, determine their residence and ask if they signed it.

Blankie · Guru

chillepeppa wrote:
From what I understand from the article, the issue the city has is the lawsuit from the church regarding the city's rejection of the church's petition on grounds that the church disregarded policies and procedures when obtaining the signatures for the petition. They are thus subpoenaed for the communications(which does include sermons that includes certain keywords pertaining to this case) from the churches to to their members that could identify the procedures the church followed and identify whether the church's petition is valid or not.

It is not about the hallowed content of their sermons at all.

Hi Chille! Nice to see you.

chillepeppa · Regular

Lawyerlady wrote:
chillepeppa wrote:
From what I understand from the article, the issue the city has is the lawsuit from the church regarding the city's rejection of the church's petition on grounds that the church disregarded policies and procedures when obtaining the signatures for the petition. They are thus subpoenaed for the communications(which does include sermons that includes certain keywords pertaining to this case) from the churches to to their members that could identify the procedures the church followed and identify whether the church's petition is valid or not.

It is not about the hallowed content of their sermons at all.
Which is why the subpoena for them is so very, very wrong.

If anything relating to the case happened during service, the sermons might be relevant to the case. As noted in the article, the city will have to do some serious convincing to be able to include the sermons. The subpoena seemed pretty specific on the content they are looking for. If a sermon did not fall within those parameters, then it's obviously not relevant.

The church has already sued the city because the city rejected the petition on specific grounds. As far as I could see, it is because the petition was audited, and then disqualified because of not adhering to city charter requirements - namely, whether signature gatherers were Houston residents and whether they signed the petition pages. Seems the issue was that quite a few of the signatures were not by residents of Houston, as per the city's T&C on this petition. The city is just trying to prove that the church was well aware of this stipulation.

chillepeppa · Regular

Blankie wrote:
chillepeppa wrote:
From what I understand from the article, the issue the city has is the lawsuit from the church regarding the city's rejection of the church's petition on grounds that the church disregarded policies and procedures when obtaining the signatures for the petition. They are thus subpoenaed for the communications(which does include sermons that includes certain keywords pertaining to this case) from the churches to to their members that could identify the procedures the church followed and identify whether the church's petition is valid or not.

It is not about the hallowed content of their sermons at all.
Hi Chille! Nice to see you.

Hi Blankie!! biggrin

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Love your avatar, chille!

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Pretty specific what it was looking for. You got it. Looking for anything the isn't pro gay agenda.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Exactly.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Is it wrong for a Pastor to say:

Homosexuality is a sin.

Gay marriage is abomination to God?

Sinful behavior puts you in danger of Hell.

Are Pastors no longer allowed to espouse their beliefs if that is what they believe?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Is it wrong for a Pastor to say:

Homosexuality is a sin.

Gay marriage is abomination to God?

Sinful behavior puts you in danger of Hell.

Are Pastors no longer allowed to espouse their beliefs if that is what they believe?

That's not what this lawsuit is about.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Yes it is.

chillepeppa · Regular

Lily, I can completely understand why the city is looking for this information. Things of this nature should be done right, or not at all. This is not about the church or their stance on LGBT issues, but city charter requirements that everyone who wants to submit a petition of this nature needs to adhere to. If the city bend the rules for the church now, how can they be expected to enforce it next time and not be met with another law suit?

chillepeppa · Regular

flan327 wrote:
Love your avatar, chille!

flan

Thanx Flan... smile

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

chillepeppa wrote:
Lily, I can completely understand why the city is looking for this information. Things of this nature should be done right, or not at all. This is not about the church or their stance on LGBT issues, but city charter requirements that everyone who wants to submit a petition of this nature needs to adhere to. If the city bend the rules for the church now, how can they be expected to enforce it next time and not be met with another law suit?

You keep telling yourself that.

I don't buy it.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
chillepeppa wrote:
Lily, I can completely understand why the city is looking for this information. Things of this nature should be done right, or not at all. This is not about the church or their stance on LGBT issues, but city charter requirements that everyone who wants to submit a petition of this nature needs to adhere to. If the city bend the rules for the church now, how can they be expected to enforce it next time and not be met with another law suit?
You keep telling yourself that.
I don't buy it.

Sorry the truth isn't dramatic enough for you.

flan

chillepeppa · Regular

lilyofcourse wrote:
chillepeppa wrote:
Lily, I can completely understand why the city is looking for this information. Things of this nature should be done right, or not at all. This is not about the church or their stance on LGBT issues, but city charter requirements that everyone who wants to submit a petition of this nature needs to adhere to. If the city bend the rules for the church now, how can they be expected to enforce it next time and not be met with another law suit?
You keep telling yourself that.
I don't buy it.

Did I miss something in the article?

VoiceOfReason · Guru

Well if you arent going to listen to a well thought out, reasonable and intelligent response, it's evident you would rather believe you're being persecuted.

Have fun with that.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

VoiceOfReason wrote:
Well if you arent going to listen to a well thought out, reasonable and intelligent response, it's evident you would rather believe you're being persecuted.

Have fun with that.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

There is very little point to even discuss. Because the new Modus Operandi for liberals is to simply deny or pretend that whatever we are seeing isn't happening. Kind of like pretending that Obama is just soooo unfortunate to not know a damn thing that is ever happening in HIS administration from Lois Lerner to Ben gazi.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Been discussing. Read the rest of the thread.

The truth is, the sermons are being subpoenaed and any looked through for anything derogatory towards the LGBT and transgender community.

This is being headed by the Mayor of the city.

The Mayor has said it is a personal fight for her.

The Mayor is using her power to get into the pulpit.

You want separation of church and state.

But in this case you have government stepping into the pulpit to censor what is being said.

That isn't separation. That is dictation.

I do not buy that this is a run of the mill innocent request.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Oh, of course it's innocent Lilly. YOu are just overreacting, blah, blah.

VoiceOfReason · Guru

Actually, not only do I know what's happening, I support it. Because it aligns with my beliefs. I'm not uninformed or unintelligent. There is no denial. But in this case? Yeah, this isnt persecution.

I like how things are developing. My interests are being represented.

Quite frankly, if every church and grifter pastor were prosecuted for fraud and tax evasion, I'd be abundantly happy. Perpetrating fraud on people in the name of religion is dispicable.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

VoiceOfReason wrote:
Actually, not only do I know what's happening, I support it. Because it aligns with my beliefs. I'm not uninformed or unintelligent. There is no denial. But in this case? Yeah, this isnt persecution.

I like how things are developing. My interests are being represented.

Quite frankly, if every church and grifter pastor were prosecuted for fraud and tax evasion, I'd be abundantly happy. Perpetrating fraud on people in the name of religion is dispicable.

Those are horrid accusations. But thanks for making your bigoted views clear.

VoiceOfReason · Guru

What is an accusation?

VoiceOfReason · Guru

Being anti church isnt being bigoted. Its an opinion.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

VoiceOfReason wrote:
What is an accusation?

You said every church is guilty of fraud and tax evasion.

However, it clears up that I no longer need to pay attention to anything you say about religion ever.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
What is an accusation?
You said every church is guilty of fraud and tax evasion.

However, it clears up that I no longer need to pay attention to anything you say about religion ever.

Oh, PLEASE. That is NOT what she said & you are intelligent enough to know that.

flan

VoiceOfReason · Guru

Shrug. I'm just shattered!

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
Actually, not only do I know what's happening, I support it. Because it aligns with my beliefs. I'm not uninformed or unintelligent. There is no denial. But in this case? Yeah, this isnt persecution.

I like how things are developing. My interests are being represented.

Quite frankly, if every church and grifter pastor were prosecuted for fraud and tax evasion, I'd be abundantly happy. Perpetrating fraud on people in the name of religion is dispicable.
Those are horrid accusations. But thanks for making your bigoted views clear.

Personal insults are allowed here? Good to know...

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
What is an accusation?
You said every church is guilty of fraud and tax evasion.

However, it clears up that I no longer need to pay attention to anything you say about religion ever.
Oh, PLEASE. That is NOT what she said & you are intelligent enough to know that.
flan

That is EXACTLY what she said.

"Quite frankly, if every church and grifter pastor were prosecuted for fraud and tax evasion, I'd be abundantly happy. Perpetrating fraud on people in the name of religion is dispicable."

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
Actually, not only do I know what's happening, I support it. Because it aligns with my beliefs. I'm not uninformed or unintelligent. There is no denial. But in this case? Yeah, this isnt persecution.

I like how things are developing. My interests are being represented.

Quite frankly, if every church and grifter pastor were prosecuted for fraud and tax evasion, I'd be abundantly happy. Perpetrating fraud on people in the name of religion is dispicable.
Those are horrid accusations. But thanks for making your bigoted views clear.
Personal insults are allowed here? Good to know...
flan

I quite sure you should know how the rules work by now. If not - try reading them again.

-- Edited by Lawyerlady on Thursday 16th of October 2014 08:14:56 AM

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
What is an accusation?
You said every church is guilty of fraud and tax evasion.

However, it clears up that I no longer need to pay attention to anything you say about religion ever.
Oh, PLEASE. That is NOT what she said & you are intelligent enough to know that.
flan
That is EXACTLY what she said.
"Quite frankly, if every church and grifter pastor were prosecuted for fraud and tax evasion, I'd be abundantly happy. Perpetrating fraud on people in the name of religion is dispicable."

EVERY CHURCH THAT WAS GUILTY does not equal EVERY CHURCH...

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
What is an accusation?
You said every church is guilty of fraud and tax evasion.

However, it clears up that I no longer need to pay attention to anything you say about religion ever.
Oh, PLEASE. That is NOT what she said & you are intelligent enough to know that.
flan
That is EXACTLY what she said.
"Quite frankly, if every church and grifter pastor were prosecuted for fraud and tax evasion, I'd be abundantly happy. Perpetrating fraud on people in the name of religion is dispicable."
EVERY CHURCH THAT WAS GUILTY does not equal EVERY CHURCH...
flan

Now, THAT is not what she said. You have reading comprehension issues.

VoiceOfReason · Guru

You know, I contemplated changing the wording but I thought no. No, I actually believe that churches do evade paying taxes and I believe they are perpetuating fraud. Every one of them? Maybe there are some that are sincere.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

VoiceOfReason wrote:
Being anti church isnt being bigoted. Its an opinion.

Wanting them persecuted because you don't agree with them certainly is.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
Being anti church isnt being bigoted. Its an opinion.
Wanting them persecuted because you don't agree with them certainly is.

Wanting them persecuted for TAX EVASION...

flan

VoiceOfReason · Guru

As is wanting homosexuals persecuted.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
Being anti church isnt being bigoted. Its an opinion.
Wanting them persecuted because you don't agree with them certainly is.
Wanting them persecuted for TAX EVASION...
flan

You keep arguing when she has already made her views clear. She thinks preaching is FRAUD, and because they are tax exempt it is tax evasion. It's bull.

You just keep ignoring words. Maybe you need glasses again.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

VoiceOfReason wrote:
As is wanting homosexuals persecuted.

Nobody wants homosexuals persecuted.

Homosexuals are NOT the ones being sued and subpoenaed BY THE GOVERNMENT.

You conveniently keep forgetting that.

-- Edited by Lawyerlady on Thursday 16th of October 2014 08:23:14 AM

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
Being anti church isnt being bigoted. Its an opinion.
Wanting them persecuted because you don't agree with them certainly is.
Wanting them persecuted for TAX EVASION...
flan
You keep arguing when she has already made her views clear. She thinks preaching is FRAUD, and because they are tax exempt it is tax evasion. It's bull.
You just keep ignoring words. Maybe you need glasses again.

Yes, ma'am...

flan

VoiceOfReason · Guru

Ok. So, your opinion is that my opinion is bull. Shrug.

It in no way makes me bigoted. However, if you want to call me that, I'm happy to give it all the consideration it deserves.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

VoiceOfReason wrote:
Ok. So, your opinion is that my opinion is bull. Shrug.

It in no way makes me bigoted. However, if you want to call me that, I'm happy to give it all the consideration it deserves.

Pretty much.

flan

VoiceOfReason · Guru

flan327 wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
Ok. So, your opinion is that my opinion is bull. Shrug.

It in no way makes me bigoted. However, if you want to call me that, I'm happy to give it all the consideration it deserves.
Pretty much.
flan

She acts like she's never met me before. This isnt the first, second or even third time I've voiced my opinion about organized religion. And, it won't be the last.

Bigoted? Pfft.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

VoiceOfReason wrote:
flan327 wrote:
VoiceOfReason wrote:
Ok. So, your opinion is that my opinion is bull. Shrug.

It in no way makes me bigoted. However, if you want to call me that, I'm happy to give it all the consideration it deserves.
Pretty much.
flan
She acts like she's never met me before. This isnt the first, second or even third time I've voiced my opinion about organized religion. And, it won't be the last.
Bigoted? Pfft.

You need to wear a sandwich board proclaiming that you're a bigot & walk the streets, just so everyone will know!

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

If churches pay taxes then they become much more relavant in saying what happens in the law.

And since you are SO adamant about separation of church and state, you should understand that a churches tax exemption is a good thing.

Also, You are bigoted. Judge yourself by the same weight you judge others.

What the city of Houston is doing, what the mayor is doing, is an overreach of the constitution.

I hope it goes to the Supreme Court.

I also hope people in this mayor's city see how she is trampling on their rights and vote her out. Or seek her resignation.

This is bigger than just the churches. This is an eroding of your rights as well. Your rights to speak your opinion. Your opinion may jive with this right now. But what about when it doesn't and you no longer have the freedom to speak that opinion?

This is an attack on Freedom of Speech as well.

VoiceOfReason · Guru

blog.congregationalsecurityinc.com/tag/embezzlement/

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

VoiceOfReason wrote:
blog.congregationalsecurityinc.com/tag/embezzlement/

Those are examples of PEOPLE stealing from the church. It's about as relevant as me posting articles of homosexuals who molest children.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
If churches pay taxes then they become much more relavant in saying what happens in the law.

And since you are SO adamant about separation of church and state, you should understand that a churches tax exemption is a good thing.

Also, You are bigoted. Judge yourself by the same weight you judge others.

What the city of Houston is doing, what the mayor is doing, is an overreach of the constitution.

I hope it goes to the Supreme Court.

I also hope people in this mayor's city see how she is trampling on their rights and vote her out. Or seek her resignation.

This is bigger than just the churches. This is an eroding of your rights as well. Your rights to speak your opinion. Your opinion may jive with this right now. But what about when it doesn't and you no longer have the freedom to speak that opinion?

This is an attack on Freedom of Speech as well.

Wow! The insults just keep coming...

flan