Will the condo sell? Is there any equity? You could loan him money and have him deed you the condo, and then you sell it.
I'm generally against you using your retirement fund for anything other than its purpose. If you had the money outside that - maybe as a one time thing. But, I would not pull it out of a retirement fund.
__________________
LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
I have no problem with giving a few hundred here and there to help our kids get by. But you are talking about way more than a few hundred and you would be putting your retirement savings at risk. I don't think I would go that far in your circumstances.
I really don't believe in the "enabling" cRap when it comes to my kids. I do what I want and I don't ask for anyone's opinion.
__________________
I drink coffee so I don't kill you.
I quilt so I don't kill you.
Do you see a theme?
Faith isn't something that keeps bad things from happening. Faith is what helps us get through bad things when they do happen.
Big medical bills for themselves or a child. Their house burns down. They lose their job through no fault of their own (their company shuts down or downsizes).
Sure, I'd definitely consider helping in those and some other, limited, situations.
In this case, however, I'd say no. It would be a temporary fix and they'd be back in the same position in six months or a year, anyway. It would ruin your retirement because you would never get it back.
I've been where they are--maxed out credit cards, got upside down on a house when I was in my 20's. They can figure it out on their own.
__________________
I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
Taking money out of your retirement savings for anything other than retirement is a bad idea. Unless you plan on working for the rest of your life.
DS1-no. He dug his own hole and it sounds like he needs a lesson in spending.
DS2-they are trying, and once their house sells they will be fine. I might buy them some groceries or help out with some of their incidentals in the meantime.
That being said, if you help one, you need to help the other. So be prepared to pay double of anything you want to contribute to one.
Will the condo sell? Is there any equity? You could loan him money and have him deed you the condo, and then you sell it.
I'm generally against you using your retirement fund for anything other than its purpose. If you had the money outside that - maybe as a one time thing. But, I would not pull it out of a retirement fund.
Similar condos in similar nearby complexes are selling for about $100,000 to $105,000.
Buyers have to be approved by the Board. The Board will not approve any sales at less than $135,000 because, they say, that will lower everyone's property values.
So there are now about 12 empty units that can't be sold, out of about 70.
their options might include telling the bank to just take it for the remaining balance on the original mortgage, or giving a buyer the difference between the real selling price and the $135,000 minimum, but even if that's legal, it's very risky, and they don't have the money.
Telling the bank to take it would be like defaulting on the loan, and would hurt their credit.
__________________
The Principle of Least Interest: He who cares least about a relationship, controls it.
While I do not have offspring, I would like to offer up some suggestions. For DS1, I do not think he will benefit from your helping him out financially. It seems that he has not been managing his finances well for a long time. It may be advantageous to him to contact his local consumer credit counseling office and set up a program to reduce his debt. The other option would be to declare bankruptcy and seek financial counseling, then start all over. You may want to gift him with a gift card to a market he frequents so he is able to get some food. For DS2, may I also suggest a gift card to a market they frequent.
As I don't have offspring, I may not be privy to the attachment you and others may have to theirs, but I do not think bailing any of them out financially is the best gift. Life is full of difficult choices, and many times we make the wrong ones. But if we do, we have to make the effort to do right it, learn a valuable lesson, and continue on. If someone keeps bailing another out, it is enabling the behaviour.
I do not have family, so the attachment for me is nil. I would not expect them to assist me financially if I did have family. I would do what I could to get me to a better place.
I think gift cards to a market and/or a shop (where they can get their usual necessities) would be great for both of your sons. We all have to eat. We all need items for the household.
If you could do it with out tapping into your retirement fund,...maybe....They haven't asked so I don't think I'd interfere at this time. Would have a plan tho' in case your help is requested.
I like the old axiom "it isn't help unless it actually helps. "
Bailing him out isn't helping. It's just keeping him stuck in his old ways, which obviously aren't working.
Sometimes it takes pain for a person to grow. By giving him money, you're solving his problem, letting him avoid the pain, and keeping him from growing.
I'd do something that will help him to learn and grow.
Like perhaps offering some skills training about money management.
He needs to learn tools for handling money better. He'll never learn that if you keep giving him the money.
__________________
No matter how educated, talented, rich or cool you believe you are,
If you give them a large amount of money how soon will it be that they are wanting more? I used to have a lot of debt and if someone had bailed me out I would have probably done it again. I busted my butt and sacrificed a lot of fun stuff for a few years and got myself out. Now I am much smarter with my money.
I especially like what was said about not touching your retirement. That is to keep you and your DW safe and secure in your old age. It doesn't sound like your children will be in any shape to return the favor and help you out as you age, so hold onto that money.
Also, buying the kids a gift card for food and necessities is a great idea. It won't enable them much, it helps them in the short term, and it helps you feel like you are assisting them. When DH and I got married at 19, my parents would never give us money, but would occasionally take us to Sam's Club To buy us food or would pay our electric bill for the month. They never gave us cash.
__________________
Out of all the lies I have told, "just kidding" is my favorite !
Do not touch a retirement account or emergency fund account to help them out. The are younger and can recover from dumb financial decisions, you are at an age where you cannot recover.
the son that keeps getting into debt, let him sink. He needs to now so he learns. Better for his future. The other other one with the condo? How much could that mortgage be? Sounds like a car payment. Can he keep it and rent it out? That would be a good investment for him. He should also get on the condo board. They are being stupid. Property values are lower now, maybe the will go up, maybe not. But in the mean time they are bankrupting people.
__________________
Sometimes you're the windshield, and sometimes you're the bug.
Will the condo sell? Is there any equity? You could loan him money and have him deed you the condo, and then you sell it.
I'm generally against you using your retirement fund for anything other than its purpose. If you had the money outside that - maybe as a one time thing. But, I would not pull it out of a retirement fund.
Similar condos in similar nearby complexes are selling for about $100,000 to $105,000.
Buyers have to be approved by the Board. The Board will not approve any sales at less than $135,000 because, they say, that will lower everyone's property values.
So there are now about 12 empty units that can't be sold, out of about 70.
their options might include telling the bank to just take it for the remaining balance on the original mortgage, or giving a buyer the difference between the real selling price and the $135,000 minimum, but even if that's legal, it's very risky, and they don't have the money.
Telling the bank to take it would be like defaulting on the loan, and would hurt their credit.
That is not legal unless they are paying cash. Sounds like it is time for someone to take action against the board. They are restricting alienation.
__________________
LawyerLady
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Do NOT subsidize someone who simply wants to live beyond their means. If he bought a home or car he cant afford then he should sell it. If he has money to eat out , buy stuff , travel then No he doesn't need your money.
He's been paying about $350 a month for two self-storage lockers, for over 10 years. They're full of stuff of little or no resale value ...
a little furniture, mostly original computer software in the original boxes, that he thinks will be salable to computer geeks down the road.
He's paying $50 a month of a train station parking garage spot, that makes it more convenient when he takes the train to his job ... but he 's had a different job for over a year and has taken the train twice in that time, to go into Manhattan for events.
IMHO, these are a big waste of money.
__________________
The Principle of Least Interest: He who cares least about a relationship, controls it.
I just gave my niece who is 48 some money. SHe's made some bad choices and karma sometimes stinks. But I saw the crashed car. I know she will be the person who is hands on for my sick sister. Was it a gift, yes. Was it a bribe, yes. Did it come out of my retirement, no.
Do I know have second thoughts.....oh yes.
__________________
Minds are like parachutes, they work best when open
He's been paying about $350 a month for two self-storage lockers, for over 10 years. They're full of stuff of little or no resale value ...
a little furniture, mostly original computer software in the original boxes, that he thinks will be salable to computer geeks down the road.
He's paying $50 a month of a train station parking garage spot, that makes it more convenient when he takes the train to his job ... but he 's had a different job for over a year and has taken the train twice in that time, to go into Manhattan for events.
IMHO, these are a big waste of money.
If I am not mistaken, and forgive me if this is overstepping, but your DS has learned this hoarding behavior from his mother. I would consider giving him a set amount per month (something you can afford) if he agreed to see a therapist. When you bankrupt yourself in order to protect your stuff...that's when your stuff owns you.
He other DS with the condo issue, I would give him moral support and advice - what LL mentioned about the condo board, etc - maybe help him canvass the condos to drum up support for his issue. But I wouldn't give him money unless you wanted to match what you gave the other DS and buy a gift card for groceries, gas, or such.
__________________
Out of all the lies I have told, "just kidding" is my favorite !
He's been paying about $350 a month for two self-storage lockers, for over 10 years. They're full of stuff of little or no resale value ...
a little furniture, mostly original computer software in the original boxes, that he thinks will be salable to computer geeks down the road.
He's paying $50 a month of a train station parking garage spot, that makes it more convenient when he takes the train to his job ... but he 's had a different job for over a year and has taken the train twice in that time, to go into Manhattan for events.
IMHO, these are a big waste of money.
If I am not mistaken, and forgive me if this is overstepping, but your DS has learned this hoarding behavior from his mother. I would consider giving him a set amount per month (something you can afford) if he agreed to see a therapist. When you bankrupt yourself in order to protect your stuff...that's when your stuff owns you.
He other DS with the condo issue, I would give him moral support and advice - what LL mentioned about the condo board, etc - maybe help him canvass the condos to drum up support for his issue. But I wouldn't give him money unless you wanted to match what you gave the other DS and buy a gift card for groceries, gas, or such.
Good advice, thanks.
__________________
The Principle of Least Interest: He who cares least about a relationship, controls it.
He's been paying about $350 a month for two self-storage lockers, for over 10 years. They're full of stuff of little or no resale value ...
a little furniture, mostly original computer software in the original boxes, that he thinks will be salable to computer geeks down the road.
He's paying $50 a month of a train station parking garage spot, that makes it more convenient when he takes the train to his job ... but he 's had a different job for over a year and has taken the train twice in that time, to go into Manhattan for events.
IMHO, these are a big waste of money.
If I am not mistaken, and forgive me if this is overstepping, but your DS has learned this hoarding behavior from his mother. I would consider giving him a set amount per month (something you can afford) if he agreed to see a therapist. When you bankrupt yourself in order to protect your stuff...that's when your stuff owns you.
He other DS with the condo issue, I would give him moral support and advice - what LL mentioned about the condo board, etc - maybe help him canvass the condos to drum up support for his issue. But I wouldn't give him money unless you wanted to match what you gave the other DS and buy a gift card for groceries, gas, or such.
I'd be more inclined to give money to the one who has been more responsible but is in a temporary fix rather than the one who has made it a way of life.
__________________
I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right.
Well, I could agree with you--but then we'd both be wrong.
First time: I had a good job, I bought a house I could easily afford. I used my savings for a down payment and getting settled in. Then 8 months later I lost my job. It took me about 6 months to find another full-time job. That whole time, I was working a part-time retail job. That job paid enough that I could cover my mortgage payment, but that was it. The rest went on credit cards. When I did finally get my new full-time job, I was making $3/hr less then I had been. I could cover all my bills, but nothing else. Seriously, I didn't even have a line for groceries in my budget - certainly nothing for paying down debt. My parents gave me the money to pay off those credit cards.
Second time: when I had to unexpectedly move. My parents covered the costs of selling my house and moving.
I currently have a small amount of debt that I could pay, but choose to build my emergency fund first. I have a good paying job that allows me to live comfortably and pad my savings significantly. A few more months and I will be debt free (with the exception of student loans)
I do however, realize I am the exception not the rule.
My dad disowned all of his kids recently, so he's obviously no help if we need it. My mom has the biggest heart in the world but no means to help if we need it. So if any of us needed help we'd have to ask each other or figure it out on our own.
__________________
Was it a bad day?
Or was it a bad five minutes that you milked all day?
My parents helped my sister after her divorce. She had moved home for a period of time. I always knew that I could move home and that my parents would always help me to every extent possible. However, I was always very responsible and hard worker so there really was never an occasion when I needed their help after college. They did pay for most of my college though. I had a student loan but I wasn't in debt up to my eyeballs like some of these young people today.
I will help my children to extent that they help themselves. I might consider bailing them out once or twice. But, the key for me is are they truly working to help themselves or have they just decided they are entitled to a lazy entitled lifestyle? That is the real key for me. Because as adults they are no longer entitled to MY money. If they want something, earn it. And, if they do stupid stuff like buying a home or car or stuff they can't afford, then they can suffer the consequences of doing so because that is the only way some people learn. It isn't the end of the world if you have to sell your home, your car, or anything else. I lived quite nicely with a roommate and lawn chairs and crates as furniture. You have to pay your dues.
And, people who buy so many things on credit blow my mind. Like furniture. If you seriously cannot pay cash for that sofa then go buy one at Big Lots or go to an auction and buy used furniture. The idea of what people "need" is what gets them into trouble.
Furniture and things like that are often bought on time.
It's the ones buying pizza and paying daily things with a credit card.
Credit has interest. That $10 pizza and cost $20 in no time.
__________________
A flock of flirting flamingos is pure, passionate, pink pandemonium-a frenetic flamingle-mangle-a discordant discotheque of delirious dancing, flamboyant feathers, and flamingo lingo.
And, people who buy so many things on credit blow my mind. Like furniture.
I pay everything I can with my Costco American Express card. They gave me back about $600 last year.
BUT I pay off the balance twice a month, so there are never any interest or other charges.
That's not what I am talking about. I use my credit card all the time. I pay it off in FULL every month and have done so since I was 20. I am talking about buying furniture on credit or anything else for that matter and paying over time. ANd, yeah, some things you can get 0% or low interest. But, in my experience ,people doing that often have a lot of other debt.
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote: I am talking about buying furniture on credit or anything else for that matter and paying over time. ANd, yeah, some things you can get 0% or low interest. But, in my experience ,people doing that often have a lot of other debt.
A lot of those zero or low interest plans come with nasty surprises.
For example, if the buyer is a minute late or a penny short on every payment, the interest rate can go to 28%, back to day #1.
There have been furniture stores with those deals that had a clause in the contract saying that if some made a payment EARLY it voided the interest deal, and "charges" would apply that were (are) completely outrageous.
For someone who's under water, the "zero interest for balance transfers" for a limited time, with a new credit card, can be good, but again, ONLY if they pay it off before the end of the free period.
__________________
The Principle of Least Interest: He who cares least about a relationship, controls it.
