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Post Info TOPIC: Sikh Student Allowed to Bring "Religious" Knife to Class
Lady Gaga Snerd


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Sikh Student Allowed to Bring "Religious" Knife to Class
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Eric Wilkinson, KING 5 News 8:28 a.m. PDT October 23, 2014
Kirpan, religious knife in Sikh faith

A Kirpan is a religious knife in the Sikh faith.(Photo: KING)

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AUBURN, Wash. -- Like all religions, the Sikh faith is steeped in tradition. One of the most revered is the carrying of a Kirpan, a sword or dagger, at all times.

"People will even wear it in the shower. It's kind of hard for others to understand," said Jaswinder Singh, spokesman for the Gurudwara Sikh Center of Seattle.

The concept of the Kirpan is taught to children at an early age. The dagger is considered an instrument of social justice.

"For the people who are formally initiated to the Kirpan, it's very near and dear," said Singh.

But is it appropriate to bring to school?

A few weeks ago at Auburn's Gildo Rey Elementary, a Sikh family approached the school telling them their little boy would be carrying a Kirpan every day.

That didn't sit well with some.

One school volunteer named Shelby, who asked her last name not be used, said respecting religion goes too far if it compromises student safety.

"There's no way I'd go back until the knife was gone," she said.

Shelby does not volunteer at Gildo Rey.

"They can't take that thing into the airport. TSA would be all over it. Why is a school any different?" she asked.

District administrators are citing state and federal guidelines that allow certain exceptions to Washington's "zero tolerance" for weapons policy.

They say there are plenty of Sikhs, both students and staff, who have carried Kirpans to school for years without incident.

In this case, the knife is to be kept under the child's clothes at all times.

"The knife can't come out. It can't be shown around. It needs to be underneath their clothing," said Auburn Assistant Superintendent of Schools Ryan Foster. "That allows them to express their religion without jeopardizing anyone's feeling of safety. If there are any problems, we will take it to the family, but we don't expect any."



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Vette


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Um no.

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Lady Gaga Snerd


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Uh huh. This is exactly what Husker and I would have predicted. And, Muslims or other Non Christian will not be forced to comply but Christians will be stripped of any ability to express themselves.

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Lady Gaga Snerd


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If I was on that school board, I would say too darn bad. Don't like it, then homeschool or go find a religious school where that is allowed.

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Lady Gaga Snerd


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"People will even wear it in the shower. It's kind of hard for others to understand," said Jaswinder Singh, spokesman for the Gurudwara Sikh Center of Seattle."

Um, I don't have to "understand it".

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Vette


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Kids can't even bring toy weapons to school and they are going to allow this? WTH?

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huskerbb


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VetteGirl wrote:

Kids can't even bring toy weapons to school and they are going to allow this? WTH?

That's my issue. 

 

This wouldn't bother me all that much--EXCEPT--the kids who bring a water pistol or rubber band gun to school would be treated like the second coming of Osama Bin Laden. 

 

No, they don't need those things for their religion--but the school wouldn't have to make a federal case out of a toy guy, either.   



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dagger1.jpg



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lilyofcourse


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I really want to see what the "it'll never happen here" crowd have to say about this.



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Lady Gaga Snerd


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They will stay off the thread, just ignore it, or say it isn't happening where they live so it doesn't count.

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flan327


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Or...they just MIGHT say that they disagree with the ruling.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

flan

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lilyofcourse


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But it still isn't happing here. Not in America.

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flan327


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lilyofcourse wrote:

But it still isn't happing here. Not in America.

 Wow!

So the article is a lie?

flan



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lilyofcourse


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flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

But it still isn't happing here. Not in America.

 Wow!

So the article is a lie?

flan

So it is happening here?  



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Vette


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The point is, that's a very sharp point on that knife.

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lilyofcourse


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How big is it?

I ask because there are exceptions for pocket knives. The whole thing, when opened, cant be more than a few inches.

If this is within those guidelines then I guess it passes.



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VetteGirl wrote:

The point is, that's a very sharp point on that knife.

 I see what you did there...

I am actually curious WHY it is such a vital part of their religion.

flan



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Uh huh. This is exactly what Husker and I would have predicted. And, Muslims or other Non Christian will not be forced to comply but Christians will be stripped of any ability to express themselves.

 yup, this is very true. And whoever is in charge needs to be fired or voted out or whatever.



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Lady Gaga Snerd


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lilyofcourse wrote:

How big is it?

I ask because there are exceptions for pocket knives. The whole thing, when opened, cant be more than a few inches.

If this is within those guidelines then I guess it passes.

 It certainly is not within our guidelines nor most schools..  



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ed11563


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The blade is bigger than a box cutter blade.

NO WAY. Not unless my kids (and your kids) can carry loaded Derringers. GUNS are an American Tradition.



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lilyofcourse


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So these things are 6-9 inches long.

Yeah. Not within the boundaries of a pocket knife.

No. Should not be allowed.

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lilyofcourse wrote:

So these things are 6-9 inches long.

Yeah. Not within the boundaries of a pocket knife.

No. Should not be allowed.

 Pocket knives aren't allowed either.? Or am I not understanding the comparison?



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I don't think pocket knives are allowed in our schools. We never let the kids have them in school anyway. No reason for them to have them at school.

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flan327


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Here's a brief explanation:

The kirpan (/kɪərˈpɑːn/; Punjabi: ਕਿਰਪਾਨ kirpān) is a ceremonial sword or dagger carried by baptised Sikhs.[1] It is a religious commandment given by Guru Gobind Singh in 1699 in which all baptised Sikhs must wear five articles of faith at all times, the kirpan being one of five articles.

flan

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I really think allowing this is going down a dangerous path. Not for Christians but in general. If you allow these people to carry a knife what if a Muslim decides they have to carry bomb equipment for their jihad? Or any other religion bringing anything dangerous. It's not so much about stripping Christians of their rights but about the safety of the students.

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lilyofcourse


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Yes. Pocket knives, within a certain size when completely open, are allowed. In our schools. Always have been. I carried one myself. Everyone I know had one. my kids each have one.

There is no comparison. I was saying if these knives were the same size as the pocket knives then I guess it would be no different.

But they are not. So there is the difference.



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lilyofcourse


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Nobody Just Nobody wrote:

I really think allowing this is going down a dangerous path. Not for Christians but in general. If you allow these people to carry a knife what if a Muslim decides they have to carry bomb equipment for their jihad? Or any other religion bringing anything dangerous. It's not so much about stripping Christians of their rights but about the safety of the students.

I think it is dangerous because it is a large knife and could be used to hurt someone.  



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Pocket knives are NOT allowed in schools here.

flan

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flan327 wrote:

Pocket knives are NOT allowed in schools here.

flan

I don't think they're allowed here either flan.  I don't know for sure.  My kids never tested the policy out.



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lilyofcourse


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Well they ARE here.

I was just trying to say that if one was allowed at a certain length then the other, if the same length, should be too. But it isn't the same length. So it doesn't matter.

Forget about the pocket knives.

It doesn't matter now.



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If toys aren't allowed how would pocket knives be allowed?

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VetteGirl wrote:

If toys aren't allowed how would pocket knives be allowed?

 Beats me...

flan



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or any dirk, bowie knife, switchblade knife, ballistic knife, any other knife having a blade of three or more inches, straight-edge razor, spring stick, metal knucks, blackjack, or any flailing instrument consisting of two or more rigid parts connected in such a manner as to allow them to swing freely, which may be known as a nun chahka, nun chuck, nunchaku, shuriken, or fighting chain, or any disc, of whatever configuration, having at least two points or pointed blades which is designed to be thrown or propelled and which may be known as a throwing star or oriental dart, or any weapon of like kind, and any stun gun or taser as defined in O.C.G.A. §16-11-106.

That is from our student hand book.

A small pocket knife is acceptable.



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lilyofcourse


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Because they are utilitarian.

We used them in shop and science and even home ec.

They still use them for things through out the day.



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As a parent there are just things I wouldn't allow my kids to take to school. A pocket knife would be one of them. I am not judging what others do or what other schools do. I am sending my kids to school to learn. If they need a pocket knife for whatever reason there are bigger issues that I, as a parent, need to address. IMO, my kids don't NEED a knife at school. I wouldn't send a toy gun with them either. Not even a squirt gun unless it was specified for a certain event. For example, water day on field day. I know our school has a very strict dress code and won't hesitate to call the parents to come get the kids if it is broken. They also can't even carry a Tylenol on them. That is a actionable offense. They will get expelled just for having Tylenol. The junior high and high school have police on campus all day. The high school has a drug dog. Unfortunately, we live in a wealthy school district and the result of that is kids with excessive disposable income to do with however they please. Drugs are a popular choice. Now this is MY school district. I can't speak for anyone elses. I can't imagine ours would allow pocket knives with as strict as they are.

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lilyofcourse


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I guess it is the normal thing done around here.

I don't even think anything about a truck with a gun rack in the window and riffle in it on school property. Why? Cause it is just the normal thing around here.



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lilyofcourse wrote:

I guess it is the normal thing done around here.

I don't even think anything about a truck with a gun rack in the window and riffle in it on school property. Why? Cause it is just the normal thing around here.

 If there was a rifle in the gun rack - that kid would be expelled from school and sent to a juvenile detention center and not allowed back into a public school. They would have to go to an alternative school. 



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lilyofcourse


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See the difference? Different areas, different norms.


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We live in rural PA. Pocket knives and guns are rhe norm. But you cannot bring even a small knife to school.

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flan327


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GUNS DO NOT BELONG IN SCHOOLS.

PERIOD.

flan

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lilyofcourse


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Guns belong in schools. I have no problem with licensed, authorized carriers having them in schools.

And I have no problem with things in the students cars either.



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lilyofcourse wrote:

Guns belong in schools. I have no problem with licensed, authorized carriers having them in schools.

And I have no problem with things in the students cars either.

 I certainly hope you are in the minority.

It's a SCHOOL, not a shooting range...no

flan



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I certainly hope I am in the majority.



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lilyofcourse wrote:

I certainly hope I am in the majority.

 You are not.

flan



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I do not want teens carrying guns in schools. I don't care where they live or how well they handle them. They do not need them in school. I have no problem with specified people carrying guns in school. For example, we have police officers in our schools. They are actual police officers. Not security guards. I haven't noticed if they carry guns or not. I would have no problem with a police officer carrying a gun in a school.

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I want security to have guns to protect my kid. I don't want kids to have guns at school though.

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Lady Gaga Snerd


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I would support armed security at the school. Trained officers. But no one else should have a gun except highly trained police or security.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

I would support armed security at the school. Trained officers. But no one else should have a gun except highly trained police or security.

   I agree.



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flan327


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Lily,

Why in the world do KIDS need guns in school?

flan

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Nope. Students do not need weapons in school, ceremonial or otherwise.

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