TOTALLY GEEKED!

chef · Guru

RE: Thousands Sign Petition To Cancel TLC's '19 Kids And Counting' Over Stars' Anti-LGBT Sentiments

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

chef wrote:
It's not fear mongering. It's a very real possibility that a child predator could take advantage of this law. Even ONE child predator (regardless of whether anyone here knows him/her personally or not) is too much to take the risk.

Riiiiiiiight. And child predators are already so great at following laws.

This whole argument is insane. "We can't allow trans people to use the restroom that matches their gender!! It will damage the children!!! WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!??!"

It's possible that you might get hit by a bus tomorrow. Better stay inside. It's possible that a person with bacterial pneumonia will cough on Lil' dude, better put him in a bubble. Better yet, we should make laws forbidding buses! And mandatory quarentine for ALL sick people! Hey, they are all "very real possibilities", and if such a law saves JUST ONE CHILD, it will totally be worth it.

Your whole post proves my point. You have bought into her fear, and now are working to spread it.

Disgusting.

chef · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
chef wrote:
It's not fear mongering. It's a very real possibility that a child predator could take advantage of this law. Even ONE child predator (regardless of whether anyone here knows him/her personally or not) is too much to take the risk.
Riiiiiiiight. And child predators are already so great at following laws.
This whole argument is insane. "We can't allow trans people to use the restroom that matches their gender!! It will damage the children!!! WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!??!"
It's possible that you might get hit by a bus tomorrow. Better stay inside. It's possible that a person with bacterial pneumonia will cough on Lil' dude, better put him in a bubble. Better yet, we should make laws forbidding buses! And mandatory quarentine for ALL sick people! Hey, they are all "very real possibilities", and if such a law saves JUST ONE CHILD, it will totally be worth it.

Your whole post proves my point. You have bought into her fear, and now are working to spread it.
Disgusting.

Actually, no. I think for myself. She is not spreading fear. You just don't like what she said. This isn't the first time I have seen the text of her robocall. I have agreed with what she said since I first saw it, long before the current firestorm regarding it.

As to the bolded - That isn't the argument. That is what the homosexual community and their supporters have read into it. Once again, they have managed to find offense where there is none. It's sad and damaging to their cause that they have to create a reason to be offended.

As to the red - That is exactly the point. They're not great at following laws. And now they don't have to be. They are now legally allowed to be in the opposite sex bathroom because of this law.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
I was all about how stupid this was. . . until I got to the part where they basically claim that all trans woman are predators.
What the ****? No. Not okay. It is flat out lie, and one intended to breed distrust and hate. And supporting a 'therapy' that increases the risk of depression and suicide in an already at-risk group? Nope.
They have a right to their opinion, and their viewers have a right to sign a petition to take them off the air
Except that is not what she said. Here is the transcript of her call.

Hello, this is Michelle Duggar. I’m calling to inform you of some shocking news that would affect the safety of Northwest Arkansas women and children. The Fayetteville City Council is voting on an ordinance this Tuesday night that would allow men – yes I said men – to use womens and girls restrooms, locker rooms, showers, sleeping areas and other areas that are designated for females only. I don’t believe the citizens of Fayetteville would want males with past child predator convictions that claim they are female to have a legal right to enter private areas that are reserved for women and girls. I doubt that Fayetteville parents would stand for a law that would endanger their daughters or allow them to be traumatized by a man joining them in their private space. We should never place the preference of an adult over the safety and innocence of a child. Parents, who do you want undressing next to your daughter at the public swimming pool’s private changing area? I still believe that we are a society that puts women and children first. Women, young ladies and little girls deserve to use the restroom or any other facility in peace and safety. Will you speak up for protecting women and children? Call 575-8330 and tell the Fayetteville City Council members and Mayor Jordan to vote ‘no’ on ordinance 119. The number again is 575-8330. For more information please go to www.freefayetteville.org. Paid for by freefayetteville.org.

And if you think that law does not give sexual predators the perfect opportunity to do just this....

Look at the language she is using. It is designed to create fear. It is misleading. It is implying that there is a dangerous man lurking around every corner, just waiting for this law to pass so he has free reign to attack.

It is implying that simply seeing a man is traumatizing to a child.

So, maybe she is not calling all trans women predators. Okay, fine I stand corrected. She is saying that because men are dangerous, nasty creatures who victimize woman and children every chance they get we can't let a non-discrimination law pass because then a bunch of those same nasty men will start dressing as woman and lurk in bathrooms. Because that makes SO MUCH SENSE.

We had a thread just days ago where some of the people arguing that this law is dangerous were scoffing at teaching 'stranger danger' because they knew that the vast majority of all assault--but especially those against children--are committed by someone in the victims family, or a friend. Assaults by complete strangers are rare. How quickly people forget.

I have used co-ed bathrooms before. At college that is literally all there was. There was never an issue. Why? Because most men are perfectly normal human beings with self-control and morals.

Also, 'sleeping areas'? What 'sleeping areas'? I can't think of anywhere in my town that is a female-only sleeping area.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Yes, Dona, there are bad, horrible men out there that prey on children and women. And having a creep in the bathroom stalking little girls and women is something to be fearful of. Having a law that HELPS them do that is stupid, bizarre and ridiculous. And all in the name of PC-ness. Sorry, but the safety of ALL women is more important that the "comfort" of transgenders that can use a different bathroom.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
just Czech wrote:
Male predators will look for every advantage given to them.
This ordinance would give predators an advantage, period.
I would fight the ordinance with all my heart.
This is just so ridiculous.
HOw many sexual predators do you know? Like actually KNOW, not know of.
Okay, now, of that number, how many are likely to dress up as a woman and hang around in a women's bathroom/locker room waiting for an unaccompanied kid to waltz in when nobody else is around?
My answer is: five, and not one would 'take advantage' of this law.
See? The fear mongering is working.

You are naive. And you are clouded. And for some reason you think giving transgenders the new right to use a bathroom is more important than the safety of all women and children. It's absolutely mind-blowing.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Alright LL. You are convinced that an anti discrimination law or whatever will lead to an increase in assault s against women and children.
Go find a study that supports that. There are places with laws to protect trans people. Go find a study that shows an increase in sex crimes after those laws went into effect.
Otherwise, you are just making wild accusations, accusations that are not founded in science or common sense

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Alright LL. You are convinced that an anti discrimination law or whatever will lead to an increase in assault s against women and children.
Go find a study that supports that. There are places with laws to protect trans people. Go find a study that shows an increase in sex crimes after those laws went into effect.
Otherwise, you are just making wild accusations, accusations that are not founded in science or common sense

It's NOT an anti - discrimination law. It's a "special privileges" law. A special privilege for MEN who think in their heads they are women to use women's restrooms. Well, you know what - they use their MALE parts to urinate - do it in a male bathroom.

But the plain fact is that the law allows MEN to enter a female bathroom just by dressing up as women - and that creates opportunity for abuse. Deny it all you want, but there is no good reason to do it.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

And how on earth is one supposed to have studies - either way - based on laws that are not passed, yet?

This is about common sense and safety.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Did you read the link? It isn't about the bathrooms at all. That is the herring they are using to spread their misinformation.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

And there is not one place in the world with a similar law for trans people? That is sad.

Ohfour · Hooker

They see themselves as VSS. They don't want equal, they want special.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Did you read the link? It isn't about the bathrooms at all. That is the herring they are using to spread their misinformation.

What link? I know that people are re-characterizing what she said to make it about discrimination.

And you are assuming discrimination where there is none. I don't care what somone calls themselves - I care if they are male - that is, have a penis. I do not want a man in the women's bathroom, or worse, the locker room. Period. Even if he thinks he's a woman.

huskerbb · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
chef wrote:
It's not fear mongering. It's a very real possibility that a child predator could take advantage of this law. Even ONE child predator (regardless of whether anyone here knows him/her personally or not) is too much to take the risk.
Riiiiiiiight. And child predators are already so great at following laws.
This whole argument is insane. "We can't allow trans people to use the restroom that matches their gender!! It will damage the children!!! WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!?!??!"
It's possible that you might get hit by a bus tomorrow. Better stay inside. It's possible that a person with bacterial pneumonia will cough on Lil' dude, better put him in a bubble. Better yet, we should make laws forbidding buses! And mandatory quarentine for ALL sick people! Hey, they are all "very real possibilities", and if such a law saves JUST ONE CHILD, it will totally be worth it.

Your whole post proves my point. You have bought into her fear, and now are working to spread it.
Disgusting.

Whatever "matches their gender" is fine--but that is PHYSICAL. If they have a d!ck, they use the men's room. If they have a snatch--the women's. A three year old can figure that out if need be.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lawyerlady wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Did you read the link? It isn't about the bathrooms at all. That is the herring they are using to spread their misinformation.
What link? I know that people are re-characterizing what she said to make it about discrimination.

And you are assuming discrimination where there is none. I don't care what somone calls themselves - I care if they are male - that is, have a penis. I do not want a man in the women's bathroom, or worse, the locker room. Period. Even if he thinks he's a woman.

ESPECIALLY if he thinks he's a woman! LOL!

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
And there is not one place in the world with a similar law for trans people? That is sad.

You are talking about 0.2% of the population. We do not need special laws that create the oppotunity for abuse for 700,000 people.

However, I do believe some states quietly passed laws that allow them to use bathrooms of their choice. And I think that's wrong.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

This allows for the locker rooms. I mean - no, there might not be an actual attack, but men can come in and watch other women undress, take a shower, etc. and without an attack, there's no way to track it for precious studies.

It's a creepy thought, and I DO NOT LIKE IT. And I feel I should have the right to go to the bathroom or use the locker room in peace without worrying about this. And my rights should not always have to be ignored for others. Where is MY right to use the WOMAN's bathroom without a man present? To send my daughter in to use the bathroom without worry?

And no, I'm not worried about the transgenders specifically, I'm more concerned about men who could pretend to be transgender. Although, I shouldn't have to answer questions if my child happens to see a penis on someone who looks like a woman.

-- Edited by Lawyerlady on Friday 21st of November 2014 10:46:31 AM

huskerbb · Guru

Gender is DNA and PHYSICAL. End of discussion.

Society shouldn't have to order itself to accommodate those who are fvcked up in the head.

-- Edited by huskerbb on Friday 21st of November 2014 10:52:22 AM

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

Eloquent as always Husker. I agree with both of your last two posts but probably would have stated it a little less bluntly.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lexxy wrote:
Eloquent as always Husker. I agree with both of your last two posts but probably would have stated it a little less bluntly.

Well, that last sentence was added since I first saw it. And I don't think it's going to influence people, correct or not.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Times are changing, the terminology is changing. Sex is considered physical, gender mental.
People smarter than you say it is a real thing, and I don't care enough about it to go fund my own studies t try and prove them wrong.
You have l bought into this stupid idea that there will be a sudden spike in assaults and abuse or even creepy behavior if tra s people get protection under the law. Sad.
I used to shower in a coed bathroom. I kept my eyes and hands to myself, and the men did likewise.
And seriously, the idea of a sexual predator disguising himself as a woman and lurking in a bathroom is laughable. It is a figment of the imagination, and exactly the sort of image that stupid phone campaign is trying to evoke.
You are so caught up in this imaginary threat. I hope you don't loose sight of the real ones.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

ONE little girl getting raped by a man pretending to be trans-gender is ONE to many.

Or will that be okay with you, Dona?

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Children getting raped by anyone is not okay. I am not sure where people are getting the idea that I am okay with child abuse. But this is not the threat. Your child is far more likely to be assaulted by her youth group leader or swim coach or chess club mentor than a man disguised as a woman in a bathroom.
You know full well that something like 90% of sexual assault is committed by someone known to the victim, but by all means freak out over an absurd hypothetical.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Times are changing, the terminology is changing. Sex is considered physical, gender mental.
People smarter than you say it is a real thing, and I don't care enough about it to go fund my own studies t try and prove them wrong.
You have l bought into this stupid idea that there will be a sudden spike in assaults and abuse or even creepy behavior if tra s people get protection under the law. Sad.
I used to shower in a coed bathroom. I kept my eyes and hands to myself, and the men did likewise.
And seriously, the idea of a sexual predator disguising himself as a woman and lurking in a bathroom is laughable. It is a figment of the imagination, and exactly the sort of image that stupid phone campaign is trying to evoke.
You are so caught up in this imaginary threat. I hope you don't loose sight of the real ones.

Being transgender is a mental illness. It is gender dysphoria. Even the leading phsychiatrist at Johns Hopkins says it is not healthy to ignore it as a mental illness and that those that actually go through with gender reassignment surgery are at EXCEEDINGLY higher risk for suicide.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Children getting raped by anyone is not okay. I am not sure where people are getting the idea that I am okay with child abuse. But this is not the threat. Your child is far more likely to be assaulted by her youth group leader or swim coach or chess club mentor than a man disguised as a woman in a bathroom.
You know full well that something like 90% of sexual assault is committed by someone known to the victim, but by all means freak out over an absurd hypothetical.

The transgender people are NOT the threat. The predators that will pretend to be transgender to get easier access WILL be. To ignore that is just not realistic. Predators will use any means available to get easier access - so this should NOT be available.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Children getting raped by anyone is not okay. I am not sure where people are getting the idea that I am okay with child abuse. But this is not the threat. Your child is far more likely to be assaulted by her youth group leader or swim coach or chess club mentor than a man disguised as a woman in a bathroom.
You know full well that something like 90% of sexual assault is committed by someone known to the victim, but by all means freak out over an absurd hypothetical.
The transgender people are NOT the threat. The predators that will pretend to be transgender to get easier access WILL be. To ignore that is just not realistic. Predators will use any means available to get easier access - so this should NOT be available.

Apparently, the needs of the trans-gender's is more important then one child getting raped by a man pretending to be trans-gender.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

I don't see as much threat as some of you do. I just don't want to share the public restroom with some guy who thinks he's a girl or whatever is going on in his head. Sorry to be unPC but it is just weird to me.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Sleeping areas, like shelters, dorms and such.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lexxy wrote:
I don't see as much threat as some of you do. I just don't want to share the public restroom with some guy who thinks he's a girl or whatever is going on in his head. Sorry to be unPC but it is just weird to me.

yep...

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Yeah - this is not one of those "How does this possibly affect you?" issues. Not all transgenders are homosexual or heterosexual, etc., so yeah, the guy who claims to be a woman could be watching me shower, and I shouldn't have to worry about that. I shouldn't have to be VIOLATED like that to make somebody "comfortable".

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
Gender is DNA and PHYSICAL. End of discussion.

Society shouldn't have to order itself to accommodate those who are fvcked up in the head.

-- Edited by huskerbb on Friday 21st of November 2014 10:52:22 AM

Not END of discussion...not by a long shot.

You disagree with anything you can't understand.

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Gender is DNA and PHYSICAL. End of discussion.

Society shouldn't have to order itself to accommodate those who are fvcked up in the head.

-- Edited by huskerbb on Friday 21st of November 2014 10:52:22 AM
Not END of discussion...not by a long shot.
You disagree with anything you can't understand.
flan

Yes it is. Whether you are male or female is hard coded into your DNA. You can claim to be a woman all you want, but if someone finds a body part and test it, it will determine whether you are or were male or female. Period.

ed11563 · Guru

I don't mind sharing the Men's room.

One day at a theater, the line for Ladies had at least 40 people, while the men's room had no waiting.

Then suddenly, the men's room became coed.

just Czech · Give Me Grand's!

ed11563 wrote:
I don't mind sharing the Men's room.
One day at a theater, the line for Ladies had at least 40 people, while the men's room had no waiting.
Then suddenly, the men's room became coed.

And that's fine as long as no males were in that bathroom at the same time as a woman.

I have used the men's room myself, in an emergency, but no men were present when I used it.

There is a huge difference between co-ed single use bathrooms and huge facilities full of women and men together.

cadiver · Senior Member

ed11563 wrote:
I don't mind sharing the Men's room.
One day at a theater, the line for Ladies had at least 40 people, while the men's room had no waiting.
Then suddenly, the men's room became coed.

Men should not have to share the bathroom with women. And what about the trauma to any boys that maybe in there at the urinal.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

I have used the men's room before. Sometimes it empty, sometimes it wasn't. I walked in, did my business, and walked back out. I didn't stare or snicker or make rude comments, and no one batted an eye.

cadiver · Senior Member

The proposal is eight pages so I will just post the purpose:

The purpose of this chapter is to protect and safeguard
the right and opportunity of all persons to be free from
discrimination based on real or perceived race,
ethnicity, national origin, age, gender, gender identity,
gender expression, familial status, marital status,
socioeconomic background, religion, sexual orientation,
disability and veteran status. This chapter’s purpose is
also to promote the public health and welfare of all
persons who live or work in the City of Fayetteville and
to ensure that all persons within the City have equal
access to employment, housing, and public
accommodations.

The argument is that a business will not be able to discriminate on the use of the restroom. Simple fix would be to put in an exclusion. I do not believe it makes much of a difference. I do not think pedophiles would really use it, half all already in the men's room with the boys. I also do not think we need worry about the few transgender that have a hang up using the restroom matching there physical attributes.

chef · Guru

https://www.change.org/p/america-and-tlc-stand-up-for-our-freedom-of-speech-and-support-the-duggars

For those who support the Duggars.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

If a place wants, they can easily have co-ed bathrooms and end the issue. But if they are designated women's restrooms, WOMEN - physical women, should be the ones using them. And a bigger issue is locker rooms, which everyone seems to be ignoring - how are you going to solve that one?

Bonny22Pye · Guru

I thought gender was a social construct which is different than biological sex. Or am I getting my definitions mixed up?

Tinydancer · Guru

chef wrote:
https://www.change.org/p/america-and-tlc-stand-up-for-our-freedom-of-speech-and-support-the-duggars

For those who support the Duggars.

I don't necessarily support the Duggars (I think they're a bit nuts) but I do support free speech.

chef · Guru

Bonny22Pye wrote:
I thought gender was a social construct which is different than biological sex. Or am I getting my definitions mixed up?

You're spot on.

Anthropologically, sex and gender are two different things and don't necessarily match up.

Bonny22Pye · Guru

Even if a trans woman uses the women's restroom how would you know? Are people going to ask for a flash of vagina first?

Bonny22Pye · Guru

What about intersex people? Which one do they use?

Ohfour · Hooker

Bonny22Pye wrote:
Even if a trans woman uses the women's restroom how would you know? Are people going to ask for a flash of vagina first?

Again, this isn't just about the restrooms. This is about locker rooms. A man should not be allowed in a women's locker room...

Ohfour · Hooker

Bonny22Pye wrote:
What about intersex people? Which one do they use?

They use the male one if they have a penis, a female one if they have a vagina. It's not really a difficult concept...

chef · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
What about intersex people? Which one do they use?
They use the male one if they have a penis, a female one if they have a vagina. It's not really a difficult concept...

Intersex people have both.

Ohfour · Hooker

chef wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
What about intersex people? Which one do they use?
They use the male one if they have a penis, a female one if they have a vagina. It's not really a difficult concept...
Intersex people have both.

Oh and there are what, maybe a handful of people on the planet like that? So everyone has to make special considerations for them? NO.

Bonny22Pye · Guru

chef wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
What about intersex people? Which one do they use?
They use the male one if they have a penis, a female one if they have a vagina. It's not really a difficult concept...
Intersex people have both.

what if they have a vagina, no uterus and an enlarged clitoris.? Cause that's more likely for intersex. Do they use the restroom of what they identify with?

Bonny22Pye · Guru

Personally I think people are too worried about what's in someone's pants, but I get where both sides is coming from.