TOTALLY GEEKED!

Ohfour · Hooker

RE: Thousands Sign Petition To Cancel TLC's '19 Kids And Counting' Over Stars' Anti-LGBT Sentiments

Bonny22Pye · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
chef wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
What about intersex people? Which one do they use?
They use the male one if they have a penis, a female one if they have a vagina. It's not really a difficult concept...
Intersex people have both.
what if they have a vagina, no uterus and an enlarged clitoris.? Cause that's more likely for intersex. Do they use the restroom of what they identify with?
Vagina = girl.

Even if chromosomes say boy? It's not always so simple.... Rare, but it does happen.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Bonny22Pye wrote:
chef wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
What about intersex people? Which one do they use?
They use the male one if they have a penis, a female one if they have a vagina. It's not really a difficult concept...
Intersex people have both.
what if they have a vagina, no uterus and an enlarged clitoris.? Cause that's more likely for intersex. Do they use the restroom of what they identify with?

This is just too remote to even concern ourselves with, and I don't care what bathroom they use - if they are both, they have a legal choice to either.

chef · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
chef wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
What about intersex people? Which one do they use?
They use the male one if they have a penis, a female one if they have a vagina. It's not really a difficult concept...
Intersex people have both.
Oh and there are what, maybe a handful of people on the planet like that? So everyone has to make special considerations for them? NO.

The bolded: I never said otherwise.

I don't know how many people are intersex. I imagine for those who are, it's not an easy life to live.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Bonny22Pye wrote:
Even if a trans woman uses the women's restroom how would you know? Are people going to ask for a flash of vagina first?

See, it's not even that it really MATTERS that much. I don't really care. What I care about is a LAW that says men can use women's rest rooms and locker rooms and the doors that opens to protect perverts.

chef · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
chef wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
What about intersex people? Which one do they use?
They use the male one if they have a penis, a female one if they have a vagina. It's not really a difficult concept...
Intersex people have both.
what if they have a vagina, no uterus and an enlarged clitoris.? Cause that's more likely for intersex. Do they use the restroom of what they identify with?
This is just too remote to even concern ourselves with, and I don't care what bathroom they use - if they are both, they have a legal choice to either.

The bolded is how I feel. They have both parts so they should be able to use whichever bathroom they choose.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

Who cares about the bathroom. Go in lock the stall door and do what you need to do. So what if someone of the opposite sex hears you pee or God forbid fart!

Bonny22Pye · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Even if a trans woman uses the women's restroom how would you know? Are people going to ask for a flash of vagina first?
See, it's not even that it really MATTERS that much. I don't really care. What I care about is a LAW that says men can use women's rest rooms and locker rooms and the doors that opens to protect perverts.

are you ok with it if the trans person has a full sex change? what if they only gave top surgery? Why did I read this thread? Now my mind has gone down the rabbit hole of weird scenarios...

cadiver · Senior Member

Bonny22Pye wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Even if a trans woman uses the women's restroom how would you know? Are people going to ask for a flash of vagina first?
See, it's not even that it really MATTERS that much. I don't really care. What I care about is a LAW that says men can use women's rest rooms and locker rooms and the doors that opens to protect perverts.
are you ok with it if the trans person has a full sex change? what if they only gave top surgery? Why did I read this thread? Now my mind has gone down the rabbit hole of weird scenarios...

Go by genatilia. Not whats on top and not DNA.

Winnie the Pooh can use either.

-- Edited by cadiver on Friday 21st of November 2014 05:04:46 PM

cadiver · Senior Member

If anyone really cares it passed.

Southern_Belle · Nothing's Impossible

What passed?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

There was a family member of ours that was born with both male and female parts

This was way back and the family was asked to choose which gender to raise him. They chose male.

Years later he began having periods. But they continued to refer to him as male.

Once he was old enough to make decisions for himself and medical science had advanced enough, it was determined he actually female.

He had a sex change when he was about 50.

These days, with all the ability of testing this is not going to be the case. If a child is born with both parts then testing can be done before they even leave the hospital. So the parent can know how to raise the child.

This isn't 1930. This is 2014. There is no point in arguing about those who have both parts. Even they have a gender. And it is found in their DNA.

cadiver · Senior Member

Southern_Belle wrote:
What passed?

The Fayetteville ordinance that the Duggars robocalls where about.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Bonny22Pye wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Even if a trans woman uses the women's restroom how would you know? Are people going to ask for a flash of vagina first?
See, it's not even that it really MATTERS that much. I don't really care. What I care about is a LAW that says men can use women's rest rooms and locker rooms and the doors that opens to protect perverts.
are you ok with it if the trans person has a full sex change? what if they only gave top surgery? Why did I read this thread? Now my mind has gone down the rabbit hole of weird scenarios...

What's with all the "what ifs"? We're talking about EXCEPTIONS again. People wanting to make sweeping rules to accommodate a few exceptions is bizarre. But if they have a sex change - their gender is changed - so whatever bathroom that fits.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Southern_Belle wrote:
Who cares about the bathroom. Go in lock the stall door and do what you need to do. So what if someone of the opposite sex hears you pee or God forbid fart!

Because it's not just about bathrooms. It's about the locker room at the gym and in the school. It's about dormitory that are not co-ed.

huskerbb · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Even if a trans woman uses the women's restroom how would you know? Are people going to ask for a flash of vagina first?
See, it's not even that it really MATTERS that much. I don't really care. What I care about is a LAW that says men can use women's rest rooms and locker rooms and the doors that opens to protect perverts.
are you ok with it if the trans person has a full sex change? what if they only gave top surgery? Why did I read this thread? Now my mind has gone down the rabbit hole of weird scenarios...
What's with all the "what ifs"? We're talking about EXCEPTIONS again. People wanting to make sweeping rules to accommodate a few exceptions is bizarre. But if they have a sex change - their gender is changed - so whatever bathroom that fits.

No sh!t.

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Gender is DNA and PHYSICAL. End of discussion.

Society shouldn't have to order itself to accommodate those who are fvcked up in the head.

-- Edited by huskerbb on Friday 21st of November 2014 10:52:22 AM
Not END of discussion...not by a long shot.
You disagree with anything you can't understand.
flan

It's SIMPLE biology. You should have learned it by 5th grade or so.

huskerbb · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Times are changing, the terminology is changing. Sex is considered physical, gender mental.
People smarter than you say it is a real thing, and I don't care enough about it to go fund my own studies t try and prove them wrong.
You have l bought into this stupid idea that there will be a sudden spike in assaults and abuse or even creepy behavior if tra s people get protection under the law. Sad.
I used to shower in a coed bathroom. I kept my eyes and hands to myself, and the men did likewise.
And seriously, the idea of a sexual predator disguising himself as a woman and lurking in a bathroom is laughable. It is a figment of the imagination, and exactly the sort of image that stupid phone campaign is trying to evoke.
You are so caught up in this imaginary threat. I hope you don't loose sight of the real ones.

If those supposedly smart people are saying that women have a penis and men have a vagina--then they are NOT smart.

Even small children know the difference.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Let's really put this into perspective for those that think is silly to worry about sexual predators.

There are more registered sex offenders (747,000) in the United States than there are trans-genders in the population (about 700,000).

ed11563 · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Times are changing, the terminology is changing. Sex is considered physical, gender mental.
People smarter than you say it is a real thing, and I don't care enough about it to go fund my own studies t try and prove them wrong.
You have l bought into this stupid idea that there will be a sudden spike in assaults and abuse or even creepy behavior if tra s people get protection under the law. Sad.
I used to shower in a coed bathroom. I kept my eyes and hands to myself, and the men did likewise.
And seriously, the idea of a sexual predator disguising himself as a woman and lurking in a bathroom is laughable. It is a figment of the imagination, and exactly the sort of image that stupid phone campaign is trying to evoke.
You are so caught up in this imaginary threat. I hope you don't loose sight of the real ones.
If those supposedly smart people are saying that women have a penis and men have a vagina--then they are NOT smart.
Even small children know the difference.

Husker, thank you for deliberately misinterpreting. Dona said there probably won't be any spike in the number of attacks.

You said something about women having a penis and men having a vagina.

I would happily give you a gold star for that switch.

huskerbb · Guru

ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Times are changing, the terminology is changing. Sex is considered physical, gender mental.
People smarter than you say it is a real thing, and I don't care enough about it to go fund my own studies t try and prove them wrong.
You have l bought into this stupid idea that there will be a sudden spike in assaults and abuse or even creepy behavior if tra s people get protection under the law. Sad.
I used to shower in a coed bathroom. I kept my eyes and hands to myself, and the men did likewise.
And seriously, the idea of a sexual predator disguising himself as a woman and lurking in a bathroom is laughable. It is a figment of the imagination, and exactly the sort of image that stupid phone campaign is trying to evoke.
You are so caught up in this imaginary threat. I hope you don't loose sight of the real ones.
If those supposedly smart people are saying that women have a penis and men have a vagina--then they are NOT smart.
Even small children know the difference.
Husker, thank you for deliberately misinterpreting. Dona said there probably won't be any spike in the number of attacks.
You said something about women having a penis and men having a vagina.
I would happily give you a gold star for that switch.

That's not all she said. Read the first line.

ed11563 · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Times are changing, the terminology is changing. Sex is considered physical, gender mental.

You are so caught up in this imaginary threat. I hope you don't loose sight of the real ones.
If those supposedly smart people are saying that women have a penis and men have a vagina--then they are NOT smart.
Even small children know the difference.
Husker, thank you for deliberately misinterpreting. Dona said there probably won't be any spike in the number of attacks.
You said something about women having a penis and men having a vagina.
I would happily give you a gold star for that switch.

That's not all she said. Read the first line.

I read it. Again.

I agree that any human with a penis belongs in the men's room, or in a single-user bathroom. I also have no problem when people with vaginas also choose to use a men's room.

But she's right, a lot of people are now redefining gender and gender rolls. Dona and many others define "sex" as determined by either penis or vagina; but "gender" is a more fluid concept now than it was when we were younger.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

And this is where the word stupid comes in.

"fluid concept"?

You are either a man or you are a woman.

Even AFTER a sex change. You have a specific gender assigned by your genetic make up. DNA can not and does not change because you change your genitals.

The whole argument that gender is a chosen idea is just plain stupid.

I don't know of another word to use.

You don't choose your gender. Just like you don't choose your species.

huskerbb · Guru

ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Times are changing, the terminology is changing. Sex is considered physical, gender mental.

You are so caught up in this imaginary threat. I hope you don't loose sight of the real ones.
If those supposedly smart people are saying that women have a penis and men have a vagina--then they are NOT smart.
Even small children know the difference.
Husker, thank you for deliberately misinterpreting. Dona said there probably won't be any spike in the number of attacks.
You said something about women having a penis and men having a vagina.
I would happily give you a gold star for that switch.

That's not all she said. Read the first line.
I read it. Again.
I agree that any human with a penis belongs in the men's room, or in a single-user bathroom. I also have no problem when people with vaginas also choose to use a men's room.
But she's right, a lot of people are now redefining gender and gender rolls. Dona and many others define "sex" as determined by either penis or vagina; but "gender" is a more fluid concept now than it was when we were younger.

And that's ridiculous and stupid.

ed11563 · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
But she's right, a lot of people are now redefining gender and gender rolls. Dona and many others define "sex" as determined by either penis or vagina; but "gender" is a more fluid concept now than it was when we were younger.

And that's ridiculous and stupid.

ridiculous and stupid.

and also true. Concepts and language evolve all the time.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
But she's right, a lot of people are now redefining gender and gender rolls. Dona and many others define "sex" as determined by either penis or vagina; but "gender" is a more fluid concept now than it was when we were younger.

And that's ridiculous and stupid.
ridiculous and stupid.
and also true. Concepts and language evolve all the time.

You are purposely trying to change something that doesn't change. It's like saying a mammal can suddenly decide to be a reptile. Just because it calls itself a reptile doesn't make it so.

burns07 · Guru

Concepts and language evolve all the time.
________________________________

well, for at least the last several hundred thousand years or so, we've still "evolved" with only two sexes / genders: male or female

huskerbb · Guru

ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
But she's right, a lot of people are now redefining gender and gender rolls. Dona and many others define "sex" as determined by either penis or vagina; but "gender" is a more fluid concept now than it was when we were younger.

And that's ridiculous and stupid.
ridiculous and stupid.
and also true. Concepts and language evolve all the time.

Concepts and language may change--but that's not what this is.

This is DNA and biology--which may change--but so far, a Y chromosome and a penis=male. That has NOT changed.

WYSIWYG · Guru

I think the show should be cancelled, but not because of this.

I've thought the show should be cancelled from the first day I heard of it. To be perfectly honest, I don't think there's a single show on TLC that's worth the airtime anymore.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
But she's right, a lot of people are now redefining gender and gender rolls. Dona and many others define "sex" as determined by either penis or vagina; but "gender" is a more fluid concept now than it was when we were younger.

And that's ridiculous and stupid.
ridiculous and stupid.
and also true. Concepts and language evolve all the time.

Concepts and language may change--but that's not what this is.

This is DNA and biology--which may change--but so far, a Y chromosome and a penis=male. That has NOT changed.

You are halfway there.

Yes, male and female are biological, and cannot be changed. We agree on that. All good.

Gender is mental, and does not always match a person's sex.

In you and I, our gender and our sex match.

But for some people, it does not.

And LL, thank you for confirming that A) The chances you will bump into a trans person in a locker room are EXTREMELY low and B) even assuming that every single registered sex offender dressed as a woman and waited in bathrooms and locker rooms to prey on unsuspecting women, there isn't nearly as many as we have been led to believe.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Lawyerlady wrote:
Let's really put this into perspective for those that think is silly to worry about sexual predators.

There are more registered sex offenders (747,000) in the United States than there are trans-genders in the population (about 700,000).

This does not support your argument. It actually made me laugh.

I do worry about sexual predators. Every d@nm day.

But I do not worry about them dressing as women and waiting in bathrooms and locker rooms because that is stupid, and I have ACTUAL threats to worry about, I don't need to make stupid cr@p up.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

WYSIWYG wrote:
I think the show should be cancelled, but not because of this.

I've thought the show should be cancelled from the first day I heard of it. To be perfectly honest, I don't think there's a single show on TLC that's worth the airtime anymore.

Bite your tongue! "Say Yes to the Dress" rocks!

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Southern_Belle wrote:
Who cares about the bathroom. Go in lock the stall door and do what you need to do. So what if someone of the opposite sex hears you pee or God forbid fart!

Thank you!

I've used a men's bathroom before...single room with a lock on the door (usually at a gas station).

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Let's really put this into perspective for those that think is silly to worry about sexual predators.

There are more registered sex offenders (747,000) in the United States than there are trans-genders in the population (about 700,000).
This does not support your argument. It actually made me laugh.

I do worry about sexual predators. Every d@nm day.
But I do not worry about them dressing as women and waiting in bathrooms and locker rooms because that is stupid, and I have ACTUAL threats to worry about, I don't need to make stupid cr@p up.

You worry about what you think is important, like a stupid damn law for such a miniscule part of the population it's not even relevant, and I'll worry about keeping my young daughters safe. Because NOTHING that worries me about sexual predators and them is stupid. What is stupid is naively thinking this can't happen.

Most children abducted by strangers are young girls abducted by men.

huskerbb · Guru

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
But she's right, a lot of people are now redefining gender and gender rolls. Dona and many others define "sex" as determined by either penis or vagina; but "gender" is a more fluid concept now than it was when we were younger.

And that's ridiculous and stupid.
ridiculous and stupid.
and also true. Concepts and language evolve all the time.

Concepts and language may change--but that's not what this is.

This is DNA and biology--which may change--but so far, a Y chromosome and a penis=male. That has NOT changed.
You are halfway there.
Yes, male and female are biological, and cannot be changed. We agree on that. All good.
Gender is mental, and does not always match a person's sex.
In you and I, our gender and our sex match.
But for some people, it does not.
And LL, thank you for confirming that A) The chances you will bump into a trans person in a locker room are EXTREMELY low and B) even assuming that every single registered sex offender dressed as a woman and waited in bathrooms and locker rooms to prey on unsuspecting women, there isn't nearly as many as we have been led to believe.

I don't give a rat's ass if it "matches" or not. They are fvcked in the head. Penis=male, use the men's room. Vagina=female, use the women's room. Any 6 year old can understand that.