TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

RE: Foreskin: Keep or Cut?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
If people want to do it then fine. My point is to clearly understand WHY you are doing it and not be swayed by overblown "medical' statistics.
For some people, the medical statistics are part of the reason they do it. It's important for people to weigh ALL the pros and cons, so why you would advocate ignoring the MEDICAL aspects is completely beyond me and says this is an emotional argument for you and not a logical one.

Hardly. I would say Lopping off the foreskin of every newborn male over some remote fear of penile cancer or urological problem is truly the EMOTIONAL decision here.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

The Academy of American Pediatricians says the medical benefits outweigh the risks. You are the one with an emotional attachment to a piece of skin.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

OH, ok, lol. The AAP has a vested FINANCIAL interest to continue the practice as well, but whatever.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
OH, ok, lol. The AAP has a vested FINANCIAL interest to continue the practice as well, but whatever.

I highly doubt that little add-on fee is what moves an entire association to weigh in on such a controversial matter. But keep telling yourself that to support YOUR views over that of physicians.

voiceofreason · Guru

I would NEVER make that decision. My hypothetical son can make that decision for himself.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

voiceofreason wrote:
I would NEVER make that decision. My hypothetical son can make that decision for himself.

Which, if he decides he wants it, has greater risk and pain involved the older he gets.

voiceofreason · Guru

So what? I don't agree with how other cultures think it's ok to mess with the bodies of little girls, I'm not ok with how our culture is ok with messing with the bodies of little boys.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

voiceofreason wrote:
So what? I don't agree with how other cultures think it's ok to mess with the bodies of little girls, I'm not ok with how our culture is ok with messing with the bodies of little boys.

I think the reasoning is important. Their are sound medical reasons to circumcise boys - there are not such reasons for the butchering they do to little girls - that is simply to keep them subservient.

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

Actually, uncut is slightly more fun to play with because you can play the turtle game. . . which the guys don't seem to appreciate for some odd reason. . . .

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
Actually, uncut is slightly more fun to play with because you can play the turtle game. . . which the guys don't seem to appreciate for some odd reason. . . .

I just snorted.

Bad Dona!

flan

Dona Worry Be Happy · Vette's SS!!

"Iiiiiiiiit's a turtle turtle turtle! Say hello! Goodbye! Hello! Goodbye! Hel--hey! Why are you putting your pants back on already??"

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I hate to even join in here. I always wonder about the stats in the US. No other industrialized nation in the world routinely does this and not a single one of them has the issues the US seems to claim to have. I did extensive research on this issue for nursing school. There are a few reasons for and and a few reasons against. But as of yet there is no clear cut overwhelming evidence FOR circumcision. It's a personal choice. I don't care who does it or for what reason. I really don't. But the main reason we, in the US, do it is so that our sons can "look like their dad". Imagine if one generation stopped doing this? We'd have no reason to keep doing it.

I know someone is going to follow me and say there is TONS of evidence for this. No. There is evidence on both sides. But there is not tons of evidence for either one. It's a personal decision. Believe it or not many many many other countries do not do this and do not suffer the problems Americans perceive will come of not circumcising.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
"Iiiiiiiiit's a turtle turtle turtle! Say hello! Goodbye! Hello! Goodbye! Hel--hey! Why are you putting your pants back on already??"

Don't make me tell you what DH does...

flan

huskerbb · Guru

voiceofreason wrote:
So what? I don't agree with how other cultures think it's ok to mess with the bodies of little girls, I'm not ok with how our culture is ok with messing with the bodies of little boys.

Not remotely the same thing--and comparisons to that effect are simply ignorant beyond belief.

WYSIWYG · Guru

"So what? I don't agree with how other cultures think it's ok to mess with the bodies of little girls, I'm not ok with how our culture is ok with messing with the bodies of little boys." - voiceofreason

Wow. That's not even a remotely valid comparison.

huskerbb · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
"So what? I don't agree with how other cultures think it's ok to mess with the bodies of little girls, I'm not ok with how our culture is ok with messing with the bodies of little boys." - voiceofreason

Wow. That's not even a remotely valid comparison.

Holy sh!t, we agree on something.

WYSIWYG · Guru

"Holy sh!t, we agree on something." - huskerbb

If I recall correctly, it's not the first time that's happened, and based on the posting of yours I've seen here and before the demise of GT, while I was lurking and unable to join, It's not likely to be the last. ;)

ed11563 · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
"Iiiiiiiiit's a turtle turtle turtle! Say hello! Goodbye! Hello! Goodbye! Hel--hey! Why are you putting your pants back on already??"
Don't make me tell you what DH does...
flan

We're WAAAAITINGGG

burns07 · Guru

my father performed mine as well as my brother's--have no memory of the event--watched my father perform many of them and he never did " botch " one that i know of ( he was a surgeon )--having seen many of the procedures, and given that it is so simple to perform ( and safe for the child ), difficult to understand how any competent physician with even rudimentary surgical skills could " botch " one

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

The same way any other surgery has complications. Infection, bleeding, reaction to anesthesia, and so forth. There is NO procedure that is without risk.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The same way any other surgery has complications. Infection, bleeding, reaction to anesthesia, and so forth. There is NO procedure that is without risk.

Infection usually occurs when the parents don't care for it properly afterwards.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Yes. And?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

And it's easily preventable. It's not a deterance. The pros outwiegh the cons.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Settlement Disclosed

$22.8 million
"$22.8 million award in botched circumcision?" The Atlanta Constitution, March 12, 1991. ("Northside Hospital will pay $22.8 million to a boy severely injured in a circumcision accident at the hospital nearly six years ago ... The child had his penis severely burned in the mishap ... A second infant who underwent a circumcision at Northside on the same day also was severely injured. That child, known as Baby Doe, underwent a sex-change operation shortly after the accident, and consequently is now a female person, who has been rendered sterile and completely incapable of reproduction, ")

$3.85 million
"Surgery ends in coma; wife gets $3.85 million" Trenton, N.J. (UPI) "A $3.85 million out-of-court settlement was awarded to the wife of a man who has been in a coma since a circumcision operation four years ago." [Source? Date?]

$2.75 million
"Family gets $2.75 million in wrongful surgery suit" Lake Charles American Press, May 28, 1986. ("The family of a young boy whose penis had to be amputated after it was severely burned during a routine circumcision performed at ... W.O. Moss Regional Hospital on Feb. 2, 1984.")

$1.2 million
"Boy gets $1.2 million for circumcision error" Asbury Park Press, 11/30/95. (AP) "NEW YORK: An 8-year-old Russian immigrant whose penis was shortened and disfigured during circumcision has reached a $1.2 million settlement with several defendants, including a Lakewood rabbi who performed the operation ... The botched operation occurred when the boy underwent a Jewish ritual operation five years ago ... The boy's lawyers maintained that the rabbi who performed the ritual, known as a bris, amputated 80 percent of the head of his penis."

$850,000
"Circumcision Botched; He's Now She (Family Awarded $850,000" L.A. Times, 10/30/75.

$750,000
"Child awarded damages" Leader Post Regina, SK [Canada], November 1975. ("SEATTLE (AP) A three-year-old child who is undergoing sex change operations because he was badly burned during a routine circumcision has been awarded $750,000 ... a military doctor ... burned the baby's genital area so badly that physicians eventually advised changing the child's sex to female ... The greatest danger, doctors said, is of deep psychological trauma if the child learns she was born a male.")

$450,000
"Boy in coma most of his 6 years dies" The State, Columbia, South Carolina, 7/10/95. "A boy who was in a coma for more than six years while a legal battle raged around him has died ... Allen A. Ervin was born in July 1985 and had been on life support since December 1985, when his brain was damaged from oxygen deprivation during circumcision. He died at Spartanburg Regional Medical Center on Wednesday, three weeks before his 7th birthday ... The anesthesiologists who attended to Allen during the circumcision settled the case for $435,000 and agreed to lifetime payment of his medical bills."

$256,000
"$256,000 VERDICT ... Pediatric negligence in performing elective circumcision Amputation of portion of penis ... Surgical reattachment less than ..." Medical Malpractice by Specialty, 3/95.

$36,000
Medical Malpractice: Circumcision / Verdict: $36,400 "9/12/92: Plaintiff, a minor child, was having a circumcision performed by the Defendant. The Defendant cut off the tip of the young boy's penis resulting in disfigurement but without loss of function." Warren Communications Tri-Service, 5/8/95.

Settlement Undisclosed

$10 million lawsuit

Alaska Law Firm Settles Lawsuit With Family of Brain-Damaged Boy
"Betrayed by Doctors and Lawyers in Alaska, Sweets Find Justice Through Seattle Malpractice Attorney"

Outcome Unknown

"Man blames hospital for penis amputation" Martinez, CA. "A man whose penis was amputated is seeking $800,000 ... for the loss of his penis and the amputation's effect on his marriage." Sunday Advocate, Baton Rouge, LA, 4/15/95.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

People can do what they want but don't be blind to the risks versus benefits. You are putting your infant boy through surgery, why? Because pulling back the foreskin is too difficult to clean?

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Where are all the stories of the perfectly fine and dandy circumcisms? You know, the other 99%.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I am not denying that. I am saying there is a risk. And, where are the other 99% of Uncircumcised men that never had any problems either? You seem to be ignoring them as well.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I am not denying that. I am saying there is a risk. And, where are the other 99% of Uncircumcised men that never had any problems either? You seem to be ignoring them as well.

I don't agree that's the same number. And you ignore the increased risks of transmitting disease to their partners.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I would feel worse if I did have it done and then there was a complication, versus not having it done and then there being some related issue.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I am not denying that. I am saying there is a risk. And, where are the other 99% of Uncircumcised men that never had any problems either? You seem to be ignoring them as well.
I don't agree that's the same number. And you ignore the increased risks of transmitting disease to their partners.

Which is a very small risk that the rest of the world also manages just fine. Funny how Europe can function.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
I am not denying that. I am saying there is a risk. And, where are the other 99% of Uncircumcised men that never had any problems either? You seem to be ignoring them as well.
I don't agree that's the same number. And you ignore the increased risks of transmitting disease to their partners.
Which is a very small risk that the rest of the world also manages just fine. Funny how Europe can function.

Their rates of STDs are higher than the U.S., so that argument doesn't really work.

chef · Guru

It's amazing how babies can cause such controversy. Circumcise or not? Breastfeed or not? C-section or vaginal? Epidural or natural? etc. Side A will always think Side B is wrong. Truth is, neither side is right or wrong. If the "wrong" choice was so detrimental, half the population would be dead.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

chef wrote:
It's amazing how babies can cause such controversy. Circumcise or not? Breastfeed or not? C-section or vaginal? Epidural or natural? etc. Side A will always think Side B is wrong. Truth is, neither side is right or wrong. If the "wrong" choice was so detrimental, half the population would be dead.

Don't forget ear piercing!

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

Honeys_Mom wrote:
Am I the only one who winces every time I see the name of this thread? And I'm not even a man...

No, it makes me wince too.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

chef wrote:
It's amazing how babies can cause such controversy. Circumcise or not? Breastfeed or not? C-section or vaginal? Epidural or natural? etc. Side A will always think Side B is wrong. Truth is, neither side is right or wrong. If the "wrong" choice was so detrimental, half the population would be dead.

True dat!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

You have to admit. We are all passionate people who will argue anything to the nth degree! Lol

ed11563 · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
chef wrote:
It's amazing how babies can cause such controversy. Circumcise or not? Breastfeed or not? C-section or vaginal? Epidural or natural? etc. Side A will always think Side B is wrong. Truth is, neither side is right or wrong. If the "wrong" choice was so detrimental, half the population would be dead.
True dat!

About those "anti-vaccine" nuts ...

If they become more prominent or continue to increase in numbers, there could be pandemics of things like Polio, Mumps, Measles, Whooping Cough ...

and that could kill half the people.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

ed11563 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
chef wrote:
It's amazing how babies can cause such controversy. Circumcise or not? Breastfeed or not? C-section or vaginal? Epidural or natural? etc. Side A will always think Side B is wrong. Truth is, neither side is right or wrong. If the "wrong" choice was so detrimental, half the population would be dead.
True dat!
About those "anti-vaccine" nuts ...
If they become more prominent or continue to increase in numbers, there could be pandemics of things like Polio, Mumps, Measles, Whooping Cough ...
and that could kill half the people.

When my bff's granddaughter was born over the summer the hospital made my bff get another whooping cough vaccine before she could visit. They said the origninal she got when starting school back in the early 70s probably wasn't good any more. It made me wonder if I should update mine just to be sure. Then I didn't really think about it again until I saw your post.

chef · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
chef wrote:
It's amazing how babies can cause such controversy. Circumcise or not? Breastfeed or not? C-section or vaginal? Epidural or natural? etc. Side A will always think Side B is wrong. Truth is, neither side is right or wrong. If the "wrong" choice was so detrimental, half the population would be dead.
Don't forget ear piercing!

That too!

chef · Guru

Lexxy wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
chef wrote:
It's amazing how babies can cause such controversy. Circumcise or not? Breastfeed or not? C-section or vaginal? Epidural or natural? etc. Side A will always think Side B is wrong. Truth is, neither side is right or wrong. If the "wrong" choice was so detrimental, half the population would be dead.
True dat!
About those "anti-vaccine" nuts ...
If they become more prominent or continue to increase in numbers, there could be pandemics of things like Polio, Mumps, Measles, Whooping Cough ...
and that could kill half the people.
When my bff's granddaughter was born over the summer the hospital made my bff get another whooping cough vaccine before she could visit. They said the origninal she got when starting school back in the early 70s probably wasn't good any more. It made me wonder if I should update mine just to be sure. Then I didn't really think about it again until I saw your post.

When I gave birth, I had to get another MMR vaccine. They wanted to do a tetanus vaccine too but never got around to it and I didn't remind them. I was told the last time I got a tetanus vaccine that it was good for 10 years, in which case I'm good till 2019.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

Wow & you are probably 15 or so years younger than we are. I may need to check into renewing my shots. When were having the discussion about it we checked our arms & the vaccine scar was gone on all of us.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

chef wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
chef wrote:
It's amazing how babies can cause such controversy. Circumcise or not? Breastfeed or not? C-section or vaginal? Epidural or natural? etc. Side A will always think Side B is wrong. Truth is, neither side is right or wrong. If the "wrong" choice was so detrimental, half the population would be dead.
Don't forget ear piercing!
That too!

Babies! No!!

huskerbb · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
People can do what they want but don't be blind to the risks versus benefits. You are putting your infant boy through surgery, why? Because pulling back the foreskin is too difficult to clean?

It's not "surgery". I've seen it done, twice, (and had it done once) and that's a ridiculous characterization.

It was FAR more traumatic the first time we went to cut their fingernails, or their hair.

-- Edited by huskerbb on Tuesday 9th of December 2014 08:16:12 PM

Tinydancer · Guru

I have to say it's something I know I'm glad my MIL and FIL decided to do. It's wrong I know but I'm not sure I'd be able to...I don't know...enjoy as much... It's kind of ugly already so it's like I can appreciate why we wear bras and high heels...lol

chef · Guru

Lexxy wrote:
Wow & you are probably 15 or so years younger than we are. I may need to check into renewing my shots. When were having the discussion about it we checked our arms & the vaccine scar was gone on all of us.

I'm 31, if that helps as a reference point :)

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Always remember when you get your tetanus shot or they will give you another one. That thing is painful! I'm glad I got my last one in 2010. That's easy to remember - I need one at the start of every decade.

chef · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
People can do what they want but don't be blind to the risks versus benefits. You are putting your infant boy through surgery, why? Because pulling back the foreskin is too difficult to clean?
It's not "surgery". I've seen it done, twice, (and had it done once) and that's a ridiculous characterization.

It was FAR more traumatic the first time we went to cut their fingernails, or their hair.

-- Edited by huskerbb on Tuesday 9th of December 2014 08:16:12 PM

No kidding! DS acts like he's dying when it's nail clipping time. When he was younger, it was easy to catch him asleep and quickly trim his nails. Now, not so much.

His hair is getting long so he might have to experience that "trauma" soon too.

chef · Guru

Lawyerlady wrote:
Always remember when you get your tetanus shot or they will give you another one. That thing is painful! I'm glad I got my last one in 2010. That's easy to remember - I need one at the start of every decade.

Which is why I didn't remind L&D about it wink

I know the exact date of my last tetanus. I got hospitalized on my Grandpa's birthday in 2009 and the hospital gave me a tetanus shot since I was due for one. le ouchie

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

huskerbb wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
People can do what they want but don't be blind to the risks versus benefits. You are putting your infant boy through surgery, why? Because pulling back the foreskin is too difficult to clean?
It's not "surgery". I've seen it done, twice, (and had it done once) and that's a ridiculous characterization.

It was FAR more traumatic the first time we went to cut their fingernails, or their hair.

-- Edited by huskerbb on Tuesday 9th of December 2014 08:16:12 PM

It isnt surgery? Well there are no words for such ignorance.