TOTALLY GEEKED!

I can't stand her either. But c'mon! Really? Ugh. They are just mortified of the behavior. Want to sweep it under the rug.

I also think the ban is ridiculous. The Japanese during WWII were absolutely brutal. And that's the truth. I know my family in England (who lived through that war) would give Germans the benefit over Japanese any day.

Well, the US wasn't exactly "innocent" during WWII either... I guess no one cares to remember the forced imprisonment of Japanese AMERICANS during the war years....

Mellow Momma wrote:

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JPT wrote:

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Well, the US wasn't exactly "innocent" during WWII either... I guess no one cares to remember the forced imprisonment of Japanese AMERICANS during the war years....

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 We did inter them. We did NOT treat them the way the Japanese treated the POW's. 

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 No, we just confiscated their property and assets, and held them for no other reason than they happened to be of Japanese ancestry.  And they were CIVILIANS.

Like they are still denying the comfort women, they (the Japanese) say they women were willing to become sex slaves. They were victims.

JPT wrote:

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Mellow Momma wrote:

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JPT wrote:

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Well, the US wasn't exactly "innocent" during WWII either... I guess no one cares to remember the forced imprisonment of Japanese AMERICANS during the war years....

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 We did inter them. We did NOT treat them the way the Japanese treated the POW's. 

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 No, we just confiscated their property and assets, and held them for no other reason than they happened to be of Japanese ancestry.  And they were CIVILIANS.

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Actually, we didn't confiscate the property and assets of citizens.  What we did was nearly as bad - but the government didn't steal their stuff - other Americans did.  The government just made it easy.  After the war, they could return the the real estate they owned, but all their personal possessions were looted.  Japanese aliens, however, had their bank accounts frozen and assets siezed.  These were Japanese born people b/c at that time, no one born in Japan could become a U.S. citizen.

It is most definately a black mark on our history.  But we didn't experiment on them, we didn't torture them, and we didn't kill them.  So, saying we were just as bad as the Japanese is ridiculous.  And no, the Japanese didn't do similar b/c there were no foriegn born Japanese citizens.

I don't excuse what the US did to citizens of Japanese decent, but these comments are being taken out of context, That was something that happened 70 years ago and in that time it was the only means we had to protect ourselves from the possibility of sleeper cells. Clearly today we are different and have other means. That is proven by the fact that every last Muslim was not arrested after 9/11. Let's keep our eyes on the ball peeps.

You can't change what you don't acknowledge so it's too bad they want to rewrite history.

flan327 wrote:

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Lawyerlady wrote:

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And you know when I first learned of the horrible American Japanese camps? In school. Because they taught it, they didn't deny it.

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 They didn't teach it in school, when I went.

flan

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 I learned it in school too.

I remember it being part of our study on WWII.

It wasn't very in-depth because there was so much more to cover. But I remember the lecture on it.

Tinydancer wrote:

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Looking back now I'm sure we all see the problems with what we did but at THAT particular time in history we did the best we could. Why are we always so willing to see the worst. We also saved the world at that time. Without America how do you think WWII would have gone?

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 I actually don't have a problem with what happened.  Given the time and what was going on in the world I get it.  I just dislike when history books aren't honest about it.  Even a simple paragraph going over some of the not nice things would go a long way.

I don't remember how I learned about Japanese internment camps, definitely not in an educational facility. I think I read a few books several years ago. Maybe natgeo or discovery had shows about it on?

JPT wrote:

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Well, the US wasn't exactly "innocent" during WWII either... I guess no one cares to remember the forced imprisonment of Japanese AMERICANS during the war years....

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That's NOT REMOTELY comparable.  Yes, that's a black eye on American history--but the conditions they were interred under did not in any way resemble the conditions of the Japanese POW camps, or the behavior of the Japanese soldiers towards those they captured.

 

They SKINNED ALIVE some they captured.

Others they made to dig their own grave--and then they BURIED them alive.

They didn't have enough to eat or enough medicine to stave off malaria and other diseases.

 

To compare the two in any way, shape, or form shows complete ignorance of history. 

 

 

JPT wrote:

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Mellow Momma wrote:

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JPT wrote:

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Well, the US wasn't exactly "innocent" during WWII either... I guess no one cares to remember the forced imprisonment of Japanese AMERICANS during the war years....

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 We did inter them. We did NOT treat them the way the Japanese treated the POW's. 

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 No, we just confiscated their property and assets, and held them for no other reason than they happened to be of Japanese ancestry.  And they were CIVILIANS.

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Let's see--comparing the taking of property to KILLING and TORTURING.

 

Yup, still ignorant.  

Well for pete's sakes.

I'm not saying that the Japanese internment camps were not a black mark on American history--but to set that up as somehow the moral equivalent to Japanese POW (and civilian prison camps, for that matter) is, just, wow. There are hardly words to describe that--sick, maybe, twisted.

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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Well for pete's sakes.

I'm not saying that the Japanese internment camps were not a black mark on American history--but to set that up as somehow the moral equivalent to Japanese POW (and civilian prison camps, for that matter) is, just, wow. There are hardly words to describe that--sick, maybe, twisted.

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 Oh Husker I agree with you.  It's just that you swooped in after being absent and posted a bunch of stuff.

 

We can't compare today's societal attitudes to 70 years ago, that's for sure.

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 I totally agree about societal attitudes.  We should really talk about that more when discussing history.  History isn't just a bunch of facts in a single line.  It needs to be put into context.

Empyreal wrote:

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I had never been taught about this in school.

I was young when we drove through Brigham city Utah and I asked my mom "What are all of those weird buildings?" She told me that when we were at war with the Japanese many years ago, we didn't trust the Japanese living here in the united states so we made them live where we could watch and make sure they didn't try to carry out the war on American from inside the country.

This is a picture of them, you can see them as you head up the canyon.  I was 11 or so when I wondered about them.  Her answer made sense to me but it doesn't mean it isn't sad that they were treated that way.  I wasn't around then so I don't know if the fear was logical or not but it seems like they were mistreated without having any proof of bad intentions.  

 

Much later, my husband did a movie here in utah, very very close to the home I live in now.  We were able to spend many days talking to a lot of japanese people and get their insight on the whole thing.  We had lunch together every day for a couple of weeks.  They don't seem at all bitter about the past, but they seem to want to display that chapter of Japanese history here in America.  It was truly interesting and I learned a lot.  

I find it odd that there was a problem with the Angelina movie about the war history with the Japanese but maybe it was in true Hollywood fashion, over dramatized and barely accurate.  It could be seen as slanderous when it is only loosely based on anything that actually happened.  I think some pretty bad stuff happened on both sides.  I would hope that if movies are made about the war between the 2 countries, that there is great effort to make it as accurate as possible.  Don't make stuff up to tilt the views of people watching.  

 

If you get a chance, this is the movie shot right here in Utah.  My husband is one of the ball players and my whole family is in the stands of a baseball game dressed up in cool 40's style clothes.  I was too pregnant with my Daughter to be a part of it :)

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 As to the bolded--you are dead wrong. 

It is beyond ignorant to make a moral equivalency between the Empire of Japan and the United States.

 

I can't believe people actually believe that nonsense.  Try reading actual accounts of prisoners of war--from BOTH sides.  The treatment is not even comparable.

Beyond that, read about the treatment of the Chinese and, later, Filipino troops AND civilians by the Japanese soldiers.  They were BRUTAL and deliberately CRUEL, and it was sanctioned, and even encouraged, by their superiors.

 

 

huskerbb wrote:

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Empyreal wrote:

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I had never been taught about this in school.

I was young when we drove through Brigham city Utah and I asked my mom "What are all of those weird buildings?" She told me that when we were at war with the Japanese many years ago, we didn't trust the Japanese living here in the united states so we made them live where we could watch and make sure they didn't try to carry out the war on American from inside the country.

This is a picture of them, you can see them as you head up the canyon.  I was 11 or so when I wondered about them.  Her answer made sense to me but it doesn't mean it isn't sad that they were treated that way.  I wasn't around then so I don't know if the fear was logical or not but it seems like they were mistreated without having any proof of bad intentions.  

 

Much later, my husband did a movie here in utah, very very close to the home I live in now.  We were able to spend many days talking to a lot of japanese people and get their insight on the whole thing.  We had lunch together every day for a couple of weeks.  They don't seem at all bitter about the past, but they seem to want to display that chapter of Japanese history here in America.  It was truly interesting and I learned a lot.  

I find it odd that there was a problem with the Angelina movie about the war history with the Japanese but maybe it was in true Hollywood fashion, over dramatized and barely accurate.  It could be seen as slanderous when it is only loosely based on anything that actually happened.  I think some pretty bad stuff happened on both sides.  I would hope that if movies are made about the war between the 2 countries, that there is great effort to make it as accurate as possible.  Don't make stuff up to tilt the views of people watching.  

 

If you get a chance, this is the movie shot right here in Utah.  My husband is one of the ball players and my whole family is in the stands of a baseball game dressed up in cool 40's style clothes.  I was too pregnant with my Daughter to be a part of it :)

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 As to the bolded--you are dead wrong. 

It is beyond ignorant to make a moral equivalency between the Empire of Japan and the United States.

 

I can't believe people actually believe that nonsense.  Try reading actual accounts of prisoners of war--from BOTH sides.  The treatment is not even comparable.

Beyond that, read about the treatment of the Chinese and, later, Filipino troops AND civilians by the Japanese soldiers.  They were BRUTAL and deliberately CRUEL, and it was sanctioned, and even encouraged, by their superiors.

 

 

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 The fuk?

Okay.  

They weren't prisoners of war.  There was no proof that they were involved in any ill will towards the U.S.  They were citizens of the USA.  

 

I didn't equate anything.  I just said bad things happened on both sides, not giving a percentage to either amount of "badness".  There are accounts of rape and other things that were endured while the Japanese lost their status as fellow citizens here in the US.  That's pretty bad.  It is also bad that some Americans were tortured and killed in Japan.  Some pretty bad things happened on both sides!  See that?!?!  That's all I said.  

You are a nut.  

Empyreal wrote:

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huskerbb wrote:

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Empyreal wrote:

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I had never been taught about this in school.

I was young when we drove through Brigham city Utah and I asked my mom "What are all of those weird buildings?" She told me that when we were at war with the Japanese many years ago, we didn't trust the Japanese living here in the united states so we made them live where we could watch and make sure they didn't try to carry out the war on American from inside the country.

This is a picture of them, you can see them as you head up the canyon.  I was 11 or so when I wondered about them.  Her answer made sense to me but it doesn't mean it isn't sad that they were treated that way.  I wasn't around then so I don't know if the fear was logical or not but it seems like they were mistreated without having any proof of bad intentions.  

 

Much later, my husband did a movie here in utah, very very close to the home I live in now.  We were able to spend many days talking to a lot of japanese people and get their insight on the whole thing.  We had lunch together every day for a couple of weeks.  They don't seem at all bitter about the past, but they seem to want to display that chapter of Japanese history here in America.  It was truly interesting and I learned a lot.  

I find it odd that there was a problem with the Angelina movie about the war history with the Japanese but maybe it was in true Hollywood fashion, over dramatized and barely accurate.  It could be seen as slanderous when it is only loosely based on anything that actually happened.  I think some pretty bad stuff happened on both sides.  I would hope that if movies are made about the war between the 2 countries, that there is great effort to make it as accurate as possible.  Don't make stuff up to tilt the views of people watching.  

 

If you get a chance, this is the movie shot right here in Utah.  My husband is one of the ball players and my whole family is in the stands of a baseball game dressed up in cool 40's style clothes.  I was too pregnant with my Daughter to be a part of it :)

---

 As to the bolded--you are dead wrong. 

It is beyond ignorant to make a moral equivalency between the Empire of Japan and the United States.

 

I can't believe people actually believe that nonsense.  Try reading actual accounts of prisoners of war--from BOTH sides.  The treatment is not even comparable.

Beyond that, read about the treatment of the Chinese and, later, Filipino troops AND civilians by the Japanese soldiers.  They were BRUTAL and deliberately CRUEL, and it was sanctioned, and even encouraged, by their superiors.

 

 

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 The fuk?

Okay.  

They weren't prisoners of war.  There was no proof that they were involved in any ill will towards the U.S.  They were citizens of the USA.  

 

I didn't equate anything.  I just said bad things happened on both sides, not giving a percentage to either amount of "badness".  There are accounts of rape and other things that were endured while the Japanese lost their status as fellow citizens here in the US.  That's pretty bad.  It is also bad that some Americans were tortured and killed in Japan.  Some pretty bad things happened on both sides!  See that?!?!  That's all I said.  

You are a nut.  

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Pure ignorance.  You are setting up a moral equivalency. 

You DIRECTLY COMPARE losing status as a citizen to people getting TORTURED and KILLED. 

To say that "pretty bad things happened on both sides" just displays your complete lack of knowledge on the subject. 

 

 

Where did I directly compare anything?

Empyreal wrote:

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Where did I directly compare anything?

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You put them in the same sentence.  That is a prime way that things are compared in the English language.

 

 

Empyreal wrote:

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Can you show me where?

Let me guess. " I think some pretty bad stuff happened on both sides."

That isn't directly comparing the evil things they did to our soldiers to the internment of Japanese Americans. It's just saying that there was bad stuff happening on both sides.

No rating on the bad of either side was given.

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You put them in the same body of thought.  That is how things are compared.   

I love Japan NOW. The people, the culture, they are wonderful.

But the Japan of WWII? We could have wiped them completely off the planet and I still wouldn't think we were wrong. They enjoyed torturing and laughed at killing. They were pure evil.

I hesitate to stick my oar in here.
Lots of horrid things were performed by the Japanese Military in WWII and most of them are still unknown to the Japanese population living in Japan. That part of the War has been pretty well erased from any history books over here (if it was ever included.) My wife continues to be amazed at things that turn up on the international news (BBC CNN, etc) about things that happened in WWII. Never heard of most of them.

Don't think you can compare those acts to the internment of the Japanese in the US. Blame it on hysteria, Yellow Peril (wonder how many of you have heard of that?) or some other reason. Were they treated well, not exactly. The barracks were pretty primitive, they did lose everything, etc. but it does not match a prison camp or wholesale slaughter (think of the Philippines).

Can't happen again. Oh... I think the nationalistic spirit rising here could easily lead to a mind set similar to WWII, not that the country would declare war or invade anyone. As far as the Japanese being so polite and nice to all you - the reason is usually given that it is just easier. Smile and go along; anyway you visitors will leave soon, anyway.

I see that although I hesitated, I really stuck my oar in.