TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Sorry. I Can't get all weepy about torturing terrorists.

Bonny22Pye · Guru

The problem with us waterboarding people is that if we do it we can't say **** when it happens to our people abroad. We shouldn't be torturing people.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

And complaining that releasing the report puts our people at risk is pure hypocrisy. What put our people at risk, was torturing prisoners.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Can you imagine what torturing people does to you?

I can't.

flan

Tinydancer · Guru

That's the problem with being America. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. We are one of the most generous nations on earth and yet we're seen as the bad guys. Everyone wants us to stay out of it (whatever it is) yet we're the first ones they look to when they need help. I'm really very proud that we can still inspire envy while offering hope.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I think that there are times when it is appropriate.

I tend to feel there are some things we, the general public, just shouldn't know about. This is one of them.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. I am thankful I don't have to make these calls. But I am thankful that there are those who can and do the things that need to be done to keep us free and safe.

voiceofreason · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
I think that there are times when it is appropriate.

I tend to feel there are some things we, the general public, just shouldn't know about. This is one of them.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. I am thankful I don't have to make these calls. But I am thankful that there are those who can and do the things that need to be done to keep us free and safe.

I kind of agree. I don't want to know about it. If I do know, it forces me to make choices I'm not well suited to make. And if we're ok inflicting it we need to be prepared for the consequences. I hate that even more. There's this eye for an eye bull**** that is unwise and unforgiving.

Tinydancer · Guru

voiceofreason wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I think that there are times when it is appropriate.

I tend to feel there are some things we, the general public, just shouldn't know about. This is one of them.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. I am thankful I don't have to make these calls. But I am thankful that there are those who can and do the things that need to be done to keep us free and safe.
I kind of agree. I don't want to know about it. If I do know, it forces me to make choices I'm not well suited to make. And if we're ok inflicting it we need to be prepared for the consequences. I hate that even more. There's this eye for an eye bull**** that is unwise and unforgiving.

I don't think you can be prepared for it. When the enemy is willing to behead you I think you do what you need to do to stop these people who don't think twice about killing me and mine.

Bonny22Pye · Guru

Has anyone actually read through the reports of what we did to people? It's so upsetting I had to stop reading it.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Bonny22Pye wrote:
Has anyone actually read through the reports of what we did to people? It's so upsetting I had to stop reading it.

No, I have no desire to read about torture.

But I'm glad someone did.

flan

voiceofreason · Guru

I can't read it. It would damage me. I can't just forget stuff like that which sucks, so I avoid reading about it.

This is a tidbit about me... I didn't watch any tv after 9/11. I watched 10 minutes from the time I found out to the second plane hitting. I turned it off immediately after and literally didn't see even one more minute of coverage until years later. I would have been immobilized with sadness.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

flan327 wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Has anyone actually read through the reports of what we did to people? It's so upsetting I had to stop reading it.
No, I have no desire to read about torture.
But I'm glad someone did.
flan

I know that the report said that these were not terrorists, they were people we thought MIGHT possibly be terrorists.

And, the report said that we got zero, that is absolutely NO information from the people we tortured.

It's despicable.

huskerbb · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
And complaining that releasing the report puts our people at risk is pure hypocrisy. What put our people at risk, was torturing prisoners.

That is a statement of pure BS.

Our people would be "at risk" REGARDLESS of whether we tortured anyone, or not. That's not even given as a reason for ISIS or whomever taking Western prisoners.

karl271 · Guru

Yes, have to agree with Husker yet again. The actions of the US have absolutely no effect on what happens to people captured by terrorists overseas. I doubt seriously that the terrorists are thinking: Oh, you waterboarded my friend so I have to waterboard you.... Nope...

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Partisan Senate HuffPo claptrap.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

I agree with Lily. There are just some things we never need to know.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Has anyone actually read through the reports of what we did to people? It's so upsetting I had to stop reading it.
No, I have no desire to read about torture.
But I'm glad someone did.
flan
I know that the report said that these were not terrorists, they were people we thought MIGHT possibly be terrorists.

And, the report said that we got zero, that is absolutely NO information from the people we tortured.

It's despicable.

Not true.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Tinydancer wrote:
voiceofreason wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I think that there are times when it is appropriate.

I tend to feel there are some things we, the general public, just shouldn't know about. This is one of them.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. I am thankful I don't have to make these calls. But I am thankful that there are those who can and do the things that need to be done to keep us free and safe.
I kind of agree. I don't want to know about it. If I do know, it forces me to make choices I'm not well suited to make. And if we're ok inflicting it we need to be prepared for the consequences. I hate that even more. There's this eye for an eye bull**** that is unwise and unforgiving.
I don't think you can be prepared for it. When the enemy is willing to behead you I think you do what you need to do to stop these people who don't think twice about killing me and mine.

Exactly.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
And complaining that releasing the report puts our people at risk is pure hypocrisy. What put our people at risk, was torturing prisoners.

No. What puts our people at risk is extremist jihad thugs who think no others have a right to breathe oxygen.

ed11563 · Guru

"I tend to feel there are some things we, the general public, just shouldn't know about."

This really disturbs me. That's probably exactly what the German civilians were saying when the mass murders were going on in the Camps within sight and sound of their homes.

And when the Allies came in and forced them to go look, and to bury the dead, they could all say "I didn't know a thing about it."

karl271 · Guru

Good point, Ed..

wild_blue · Newbie

According to the report not all of them were terrorists. That's messed up.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

ed11563 wrote:
"I tend to feel there are some things we, the general public, just shouldn't know about."

This really disturbs me. That's probably exactly what the German civilians were saying when the mass murders were going on in the Camps within sight and sound of their homes.
And when the Allies came in and forced them to go look, and to bury the dead, they could all say "I didn't know a thing about it."

Thank you, ed.

I'm not sure I want to live in that kind of world.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

ed11563 wrote:
"I tend to feel there are some things we, the general public, just shouldn't know about."

This really disturbs me. That's probably exactly what the German civilians were saying when the mass murders were going on in the Camps within sight and sound of their homes.
And when the Allies came in and forced them to go look, and to bury the dead, they could all say "I didn't know a thing about it."

I can see why that would disturb you - it's a terrible thought. But, what if, to determine where the camps were in order to liberate them, they had to torture a Nazi? I just don't need to know that. The fact that it would lead to the release of the Jews would be enough.

Of course, if you are going to torture enemies, you need to be damn sure they are enemies. Geesh.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
"I tend to feel there are some things we, the general public, just shouldn't know about."

This really disturbs me. That's probably exactly what the German civilians were saying when the mass murders were going on in the Camps within sight and sound of their homes.
And when the Allies came in and forced them to go look, and to bury the dead, they could all say "I didn't know a thing about it."

Thank you, ed.
I'm not sure I want to live in that kind of world.
flan

Trust me, you do live in that kind of world. There is plenty the government doesn't tell us and never intends to.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I know, LL, believe me I do.

I just wish I didn't have to.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Ed you are talking about two totally different things.

The camps were crimes. They were meant to inflict as much pain and suffering for the simple of reason of inflicting pain and suffering.

To use torture to gain information is more of a surgical situation. It is one maybe two people and the sole object is to gain information for the greater good.

As soon as the person talks, it's usually over.

Bonny22Pye · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Ed you are talking about two totally different things.

The camps were crimes. They were meant to inflict as much pain and suffering for the simple of reason of inflicting pain and suffering.

To use torture to gain information is more of a surgical situation. It is one maybe two people and the sole object is to gain information for the greater good.

As soon as the person talks, it's usually over.

You should read the repot Lilly. It was taken way beyond information gathering.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Bonny22Pye wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Ed you are talking about two totally different things.

The camps were crimes. They were meant to inflict as much pain and suffering for the simple of reason of inflicting pain and suffering.

To use torture to gain information is more of a surgical situation. It is one maybe two people and the sole object is to gain information for the greater good.

As soon as the person talks, it's usually over.
You should read the repot Lilly. It was taken way beyond information gathering.

And, frankly, where else could a person torture others and not go to jail?

flan

Bonny22Pye · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Ed you are talking about two totally different things.

The camps were crimes. They were meant to inflict as much pain and suffering for the simple of reason of inflicting pain and suffering.

To use torture to gain information is more of a surgical situation. It is one maybe two people and the sole object is to gain information for the greater good.

As soon as the person talks, it's usually over.
You should read the repot Lilly. It was taken way beyond information gathering.
And, frankly, where else could a person torture others and not go to jail?
flan

In the report it talks about not telling supervisors because of how extreme it was. Even our own former POWs have said torture doesn't make people give up credible info. It just makes them talk so it stops.

Bonny22Pye · Guru

Omg...Flan and I are on the same page!

Ohfour · Hooker

I read the report. And it doesn't bother me. AT ALL.

FNW · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
I think that there are times when it is appropriate.

I tend to feel there are some things we, the general public, just shouldn't know about. This is one of them.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. I am thankful I don't have to make these calls. But I am thankful that there are those who can and do the things that need to be done to keep us free and safe.

This.

voiceofreason · Guru

Some people are simply broken. Disturbing.

voiceofreason · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
I read the report. And it doesn't bother me. AT ALL.

I don't believe this for one second.

voiceofreason · Guru

Bonny22Pye wrote:
Omg...Flan and I are on the same page!

This makes me happy!

FNW · Guru

voiceofreason wrote:
I can't read it. It would damage me. I can't just forget stuff like that which sucks, so I avoid reading about it.

This is a tidbit about me... I didn't watch any tv after 9/11. I watched 10 minutes from the time I found out to the second plane hitting. I turned it off immediately after and literally didn't see even one more minute of coverage until years later. I would have been immobilized with sadness.

Eventually I turned the TV off and started cleaning. When I'm stressed, I clean. I had a view of the pentagon cloud of smoke from my office window that day. I managed to get out and home before the traffic jams started occurring. It was a very scary time.

Ohfour · Hooker

voiceofreason wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I read the report. And it doesn't bother me. AT ALL.
I don't believe this for one second.

Really? Well it doesn't. I don't give ONE CARE what happens to those people. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever...

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

voiceofreason wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Omg...Flan and I are on the same page!
This makes me happy!

Me too.

flan

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

huskerbb wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
And complaining that releasing the report puts our people at risk is pure hypocrisy. What put our people at risk, was torturing prisoners.
That is a statement of pure BS.
Our people would be "at risk" REGARDLESS of whether we tortured anyone, or not. That's not even given as a reason for ISIS or whomever taking Western prisoners.

Well, in 2004, an American prisoner was beheaded by extremists who gave the reason as "revenge for the U.S. torturing prisoners".

Also, military and intelligence analysts are saying that Isis will be using this as its #1 recruiting tool for years to come and that right now, our troops and embassies are at a greater risk because this info came out.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Has anyone actually read through the reports of what we did to people? It's so upsetting I had to stop reading it.
No, I have no desire to read about torture.
But I'm glad someone did.
flan
I know that the report said that these were not terrorists, they were people we thought MIGHT possibly be terrorists.

And, the report said that we got zero, that is absolutely NO information from the people we tortured.

It's despicable.
Not true.

Well, it was not responsible for finding OBL. It did not lead to any credible information that the U.S. was able to use. That is what the Senate Committee concluded as well.

Scooby · Newbie

Ohfour wrote:
voiceofreason wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
I read the report. And it doesn't bother me. AT ALL.
I don't believe this for one second.
Really? Well it doesn't. I don't give ONE CARE what happens to those people. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever...

Yeah, me either. I think of those poor people in the towers who had a choice of jumping or burning to death and I remember those bodies falling...THOSE people I have sympathy for.

I agree with others. There are things we don't need to know.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

You are still comparing an act to incite fear on the masses to an act to extract information on one.

I also question the purpose behind releasing such information. Who released it? What was their purpose? What has been accomplished by releasing it?

I don't need to read these things. I am not in a need to know position. This is something that is beyond my experience and expertize. I have no place speaking out about this. I have no place second guessing what is being used to keep me and my family as safe as possible.

Yes. I feel bad about collateral damage in times of war. But I feel nothing for the ones who are causing original problem that causes war.

That would be like feeling sorry for Hitler. I don't. I do feel sorry for the millions he ordered killed and encamped. See the difference?

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Hitler wasn't tortured. He committed suicide. See the difference?

Ohfour · Hooker

Mellow Momma wrote:
Hitler wasn't tortured. He committed suicide. See the difference?

Point?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

You still don't get it.

You are feeling sorry for people who would like to see you dead. Understand that? Should I feel sorry for someone who wants to see me dead when they are tortured to find out how this may happen?

I don't. And I wont.

Should we feel sorry for those who want us dead? No. I don't.

FNW · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
You still don't get it.

You are feeling sorry for people who would like to see you dead. Understand that? Should I feel sorry for someone who wants to see me dead when they are tortured to find out how this may happen?

I don't. And I wont.

Should we feel sorry for those who want us dead? No. I don't.

This.

Bonny22Pye · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
You still don't get it.

You are feeling sorry for people who would like to see you dead. Understand that? Should I feel sorry for someone who wants to see me dead when they are tortured to find out how this may happen?

I don't. And I wont.

Should we feel sorry for those who want us dead? No. I don't.

We should treat all people the way we want to be treated. By treating prisoners of war so savagely (and I mean the stuff that went beyond enhanced techniques and into really twisted ****ed up torture) we are showing the world and ourselves that we have become terrorists as well.

I know that I probably won't convince anybody to rethink their positions, but I really just can't fathom how anybody can think some of the things we did to people was ok.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Bonny22Pye wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
You still don't get it.

You are feeling sorry for people who would like to see you dead. Understand that? Should I feel sorry for someone who wants to see me dead when they are tortured to find out how this may happen?

I don't. And I wont.

Should we feel sorry for those who want us dead? No. I don't.

We should treat all people the way we want to be treated. By treating prisoners of war so savagely (and I mean the stuff that went beyond enhanced techniques and into really twisted ****ed up torture) we are showing the world and ourselves that we have become terrorists as well.
I know that I probably won't convince anybody to rethink their positions, but I really just can't fathom how anybody can think some of the things we did to people was ok.

Thank you!

Also, I think we do bear some responsibility to NOT take "an eye for an eye". That is exactly what the terrorists do and we think it's wrong when they do it. You should not allow your enemies to force you to stoop to their level. And that's exactly what we did...except we amped it up about 100 notches. Bombing civilians would be equal to the twin towers. Kidnapping an individual who may or may not be a terrorist and committing forced anal feeding is disgusting.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Mellow Momma wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
You still don't get it.

You are feeling sorry for people who would like to see you dead. Understand that? Should I feel sorry for someone who wants to see me dead when they are tortured to find out how this may happen?

I don't. And I wont.

Should we feel sorry for those who want us dead? No. I don't.

We should treat all people the way we want to be treated. By treating prisoners of war so savagely (and I mean the stuff that went beyond enhanced techniques and into really twisted ****ed up torture) we are showing the world and ourselves that we have become terrorists as well.
I know that I probably won't convince anybody to rethink their positions, but I really just can't fathom how anybody can think some of the things we did to people was ok.

Thank you!

Also, I think we do bear some responsibility to NOT take "an eye for an eye". That is exactly what the terrorists do and we think it's wrong when they do it. You should not allow your enemies to force you to stoop to their level. And that's exactly what we did...except we amped it up about 100 notches. Bombing civilians would be equal to the twin towers. Kidnapping an individual who may or may not be a terrorist and committing forced anal feeding is disgusting.

Add me to the list.

I think it strips a person of their humanity.

How can you commit these atrocities & go home & play with your kids?

flan