TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

RE: Sorry. I Can't get all weepy about torturing terrorists.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
Maybe if we chop their heads off instead we can get hordes of young men to join our cause (sarcasm)? Fighting people who would do this isn't accomplished by being "nice". Evil needs to be eliminated before another 911 happens. It's only a matter of time if we aren't vigilant and harsh.
And that is an impossible task. Evil will always exist.
flan
So do we just let it run rampant? What about that teen girl that recently burned alive? 98% of her body was burned. The only thing that wasn't were the soles of her feet. Someone doused her with lighther fluid and set her on fire? I would have no problem whatsoever pulling the lever on the electric chair or firing a bullet into that perpetrators' heart.
Why would you think this was the act of a terrorist?
flan
I am referencing Evil.

So how could anyone have known some sicko was going to do this?

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

What is your point? I am talking about dealing with evil.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
What is your point? I am talking about dealing with evil.

Did you say that you wanted to wipe out evil? I was asking how.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
What is your point? I am talking about dealing with evil.
Did you say that you wanted to wipe out evil? I was asking how.
flan

And you have asked if we are supposed to just let it go and not fight against it?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

You wipe out evil doers.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
What is your point? I am talking about dealing with evil.
Did you say that you wanted to wipe out evil? I was asking how.
flan
And you have asked if we are supposed to just let it go and not fight against it?

Been asked, you mean?

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
You wipe out evil doers.

IF there was truly a way to accomplish that, don't you think it would have been done by now?

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
What is your point? I am talking about dealing with evil.
Did you say that you wanted to wipe out evil? I was asking how.
flan
And you have asked if we are supposed to just let it go and not fight against it?
Been asked, you mean?
flan

Yes. Been asked. By three different posters.

What do you think should be done? How would you handle it?

Should we leave it all alone? Do nothing and hope for the best?

Well Flan? Should we?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I'm leaving work in 10 minutes, Lily.

Then I'm going to drive home.

Then I'm going to talk to DH.

Then I'm going to have something to eat.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
I'm leaving work in 10 minutes, Lily.

Then I'm going to drive home.

Then I'm going to talk to DH.

Then I'm going to have something to eat.

flan

To translate.

You have nothing to offer.

Nothing to add.

No ideas.

And no. I am not surprised.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

Flan does have an opinion and it is a human one. I get it but know that the other side protected us well. But I hate the pain others went through as does Flan.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
You wipe out evil doers.
IF there was truly a way to accomplish that, don't you think it would have been done by now?
flan

Flan life is about striving. Striving for excellence. Striving to make the world better.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Flan never answers a direct question.

But she sure will shake her head and condescend.

No one has said that innocent people should ever be hurt.

But what has been said it that when the situation calls for drastic measures, those drastic measures need to be taken.

And I, for one, am glad that there are those who step up and do that for the greater good of our country.

I don't feel sorry for terrorists. I feel sorry for their victims.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
I'm leaving work in 10 minutes, Lily.

Then I'm going to drive home.

Then I'm going to talk to DH.

Then I'm going to have something to eat.

flan
To translate.
You have nothing to offer.
Nothing to add.
No ideas.
And no. I am not surprised.

TO TRANSLATE:

Stop hounding me. I have a life.

THE QUESTION IS RIDICULOUS, Lily. Are you happy now?

I didn't feel it deserved a serious answer.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Flan does have an opinion and it is a human one. I get it but know that the other side protected us well. But I hate the pain others went through as does Flan.

I'm the only "peacenik" posting on the thread. The others got disgusted and left.

It's not like an ON/OFF switch: Either we do nothing OR we resort to the worst methods of torture.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
Flan never answers a direct question.

But she sure will shake her head and condescend.

No one has said that innocent people should ever be hurt.

But what has been said it that when the situation calls for drastic measures, those drastic measures need to be taken.

And I, for one, am glad that there are those who step up and do that for the greater good of our country.

I don't feel sorry for terrorists. I feel sorry for their victims.

BS, Lily.

That's most of what you post about me.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
I'm leaving work in 10 minutes, Lily.

Then I'm going to drive home.

Then I'm going to talk to DH.

Then I'm going to have something to eat.

flan
To translate.
You have nothing to offer.
Nothing to add.
No ideas.
And no. I am not surprised.
TO TRANSLATE:
Stop hounding me. I have a life.
THE QUESTION IS RIDICULOUS, Lily. Are you happy now?
I didn't feel it deserved a serious answer.
flan

No it is a valid question. All of them are valid. You just have no answer because you haven't thought that far ahead.

So? Get to thinking.

What should we do? Should we let evil be? Should we do nothing to fight it?

You don't want the necessary means to get information and you say that nothing will stop evil, so what are we supposed to do?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Flan never answers a direct question.

But she sure will shake her head and condescend.

No one has said that innocent people should ever be hurt.

But what has been said it that when the situation calls for drastic measures, those drastic measures need to be taken.

And I, for one, am glad that there are those who step up and do that for the greater good of our country.

I don't feel sorry for terrorists. I feel sorry for their victims.
BS, Lily.
That's most of what you post about me.
flan

NOT BS. Truth.

You very rarely actually post a real opinion of your own. You will generally just take the opportunity to take a dig at someone.

And you ignore questions or you make some silly comment about having a life or thinking for your self just to deflect.

You want sympathy for those who wish you dead. You want to stick your head in the sand and not do anything. "it isn't affecting me" "I don't bother evil and it doesn't bother me".

voiceofreason · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Flan never answers a direct question.

But she sure will shake her head and condescend.

No one has said that innocent people should ever be hurt.

But what has been said it that when the situation calls for drastic measures, those drastic measures need to be taken.

And I, for one, am glad that there are those who step up and do that for the greater good of our country.

I don't feel sorry for terrorists. I feel sorry for their victims.
BS, Lily.
That's most of what you post about me.
flan
NOT BS. Truth.
You very rarely actually post a real opinion of your own. You will generally just take the opportunity to take a dig at someone.
And you ignore questions or you make some silly comment about having a life or thinking for your self just to deflect.
You want sympathy for those who wish you dead. You want to stick your head in the sand and not do anything. "it isn't affecting me" "I don't bother evil and it doesn't bother me".

Lily, I honestly think this is an unfair and untrue assessment. Regardless, you two have differing opinions and even if flan posted a thesis on the reasons torture is wrong, you wouldn't agree. Let's reach out and agree to disagree.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

voiceofreason wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Flan never answers a direct question.

But she sure will shake her head and condescend.

No one has said that innocent people should ever be hurt.

But what has been said it that when the situation calls for drastic measures, those drastic measures need to be taken.

And I, for one, am glad that there are those who step up and do that for the greater good of our country.

I don't feel sorry for terrorists. I feel sorry for their victims.
BS, Lily.
That's most of what you post about me.
flan
NOT BS. Truth.
You very rarely actually post a real opinion of your own. You will generally just take the opportunity to take a dig at someone.
And you ignore questions or you make some silly comment about having a life or thinking for your self just to deflect.
You want sympathy for those who wish you dead. You want to stick your head in the sand and not do anything. "it isn't affecting me" "I don't bother evil and it doesn't bother me".

Lily, I honestly think this is an unfair and untrue assessment. Regardless, you two have differing opinions and even if flan posted a thesis on the reasons torture is wrong, you wouldn't agree. Let's reach out and agree to disagree.

VoR, I have ALREADY answered the question, but Lily can't even acknowledge that.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

flan327 wrote:
I know what to do_sometimes wrote:
Flan does have an opinion and it is a human one. I get it but know that the other side protected us well. But I hate the pain others went through as does Flan.
I'm the only "peacenik" posting on the thread. The others got disgusted and left.
It's not like an ON/OFF switch: Either we do nothing OR we resort to the worst methods of torture.
flan

LILY:

HERE IS MY ANSWER.

Sorry if you don't like it...Wait a minute, I'm not sorry at all.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

The worst methods of torture? Like skinning people alive or cutting their heads of with a little knife? Was that in the report?

Tinydancer · Guru

The methods of torture used were mild compared to what these animals do to their victims. Your answer of do nothing or resort to the worst methods of torture is not really an answer it's a question...lol. Yore saying we should do something in between. What would that be? Ground them for a week, take away their tv's, maim and mutilate, jail them for life? I would seriously like to know what you think is an appropriate way to extract information from them.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Tinydancer wrote:
The methods of torture used were mild compared to what these animals do to their victims. Your answer of do nothing or resort to the worst methods of torture is not really an answer it's a question...lol. Yore saying we should do something in between. What would that be? Ground them for a week, take away their tv's, maim and mutilate, jail them for life? I would seriously like to know what you think is an appropriate way to extract information from them.

So, in order to "answer" the question, I have to list methods of torture?

Sorry, not going to happen.

Call me whatever names you want, mock me...I'm used to it here.

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
The methods of torture used were mild compared to what these animals do to their victims. Your answer of do nothing or resort to the worst methods of torture is not really an answer it's a question...lol. Yore saying we should do something in between. What would that be? Ground them for a week, take away their tv's, maim and mutilate, jail them for life? I would seriously like to know what you think is an appropriate way to extract information from them.
So, in order to "answer" the question, I have to list methods of torture?
Sorry, not going to happen.
Call me whatever names you want, mock me...I'm used to it here.
flan

I'm not mocking. When I was a bleeding heart liberal, I felt the same way. But I have come to the conclusion that these people don't just want to hurt us. They want to wipe us out. And what we did to those prisoners PALES in comparison to sawing someone's head off with a dull rusty knife.

Tinydancer · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
The methods of torture used were mild compared to what these animals do to their victims. Your answer of do nothing or resort to the worst methods of torture is not really an answer it's a question...lol. Yore saying we should do something in between. What would that be? Ground them for a week, take away their tv's, maim and mutilate, jail them for life? I would seriously like to know what you think is an appropriate way to extract information from them.
So, in order to "answer" the question, I have to list methods of torture?
Sorry, not going to happen.
Call me whatever names you want, mock me...I'm used to it here.
flan

I haven't called you a single name and nowhere did I say you had to list tortures. I just asked you to list the things you would find acceptable in order to get information from these people. Trying to turn it around on me is not going to change the fact that you don't want them to torture these people but you have no solution that would be acceptable and affective.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

And my questions have to do with your statement that evil will always exist. I asked if that means we should just roll over and accept it or should we fight?

I haven't called you a name either.

You like to give non answers, deflect and just plain out refuse.

Again, I am not surprised.

Bonny22Pye · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
The methods of torture used were mild compared to what these animals do to their victims. Your answer of do nothing or resort to the worst methods of torture is not really an answer it's a question...lol. Yore saying we should do something in between. What would that be? Ground them for a week, take away their tv's, maim and mutilate, jail them for life? I would seriously like to know what you think is an appropriate way to extract information from them.
So, in order to "answer" the question, I have to list methods of torture?
Sorry, not going to happen.
Call me whatever names you want, mock me...I'm used to it here.
flan
I'm not mocking. When I was a bleeding heart liberal, I felt the same way. But I have come to the conclusion that these people don't just want to hurt us. They want to wipe us out. And what we did to those prisoners PALES in comparison to sawing someone's head off with a dull rusty knife.

I just don't understand the argument that it pales in comparison to what they do. We should be better than them. Not try to show them up on the torture scale.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Bonny22Pye wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
The methods of torture used were mild compared to what these animals do to their victims. Your answer of do nothing or resort to the worst methods of torture is not really an answer it's a question...lol. Yore saying we should do something in between. What would that be? Ground them for a week, take away their tv's, maim and mutilate, jail them for life? I would seriously like to know what you think is an appropriate way to extract information from them.
So, in order to "answer" the question, I have to list methods of torture?
Sorry, not going to happen.
Call me whatever names you want, mock me...I'm used to it here.
flan
I'm not mocking. When I was a bleeding heart liberal, I felt the same way. But I have come to the conclusion that these people don't just want to hurt us. They want to wipe us out. And what we did to those prisoners PALES in comparison to sawing someone's head off with a dull rusty knife.
I just don't understand the argument that it pales in comparison to what they do. We should be better than them. Not try to show them up on the torture scale.

Bonny, I TRULY appreciate your stepping back in.

flan

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Tinydancer wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Tinydancer wrote:
The methods of torture used were mild compared to what these animals do to their victims. Your answer of do nothing or resort to the worst methods of torture is not really an answer it's a question...lol. Yore saying we should do something in between. What would that be? Ground them for a week, take away their tv's, maim and mutilate, jail them for life? I would seriously like to know what you think is an appropriate way to extract information from them.
So, in order to "answer" the question, I have to list methods of torture?
Sorry, not going to happen.
Call me whatever names you want, mock me...I'm used to it here.
flan
I haven't called you a single name and nowhere did I say you had to list tortures. I just asked you to list the things you would find acceptable in order to get information from these people. Trying to turn it around on me is not going to change the fact that you don't want them to torture these people but you have no solution that would be acceptable and affective.

I apologize. You did not call me a name.

There are degrees of interrogation methods.

And, AGAIN, I am concerned about the toll it takes on those Americans who may be called upon to torture other human beings...evil or not...

flan

Bonny22Pye · Guru

Here is a good little snippet from an article that I think explains my POV pretty well:

Apologists say that these methods were used to put the detainees into a state of “learned helplessness,” in which the detainee would depend totally on his captor and give up all information. Those of us who have actually conducted interviews know that this isn’t the way things work.

To get good, accurate information, you want the subject to be as cognizant as possible. You want him to be able to remember all the details and to be able to tell you them.

A person will say anything to try to stop the pain, and torture impairs the suspect’s ability to remember the details that may be essential to your investigation. Professionals don’t need to use torture and never have.

On top of that, torture is illegal, both here in the U.S. and internationally. The United States has even prosecuted people for the methods that the CIA used after 9/11. We are a nation of laws, and the conduct detailed in the Senate report is against the law.

This was taken from this opinion article on Fox News. www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/12/09/why-cia-interrogations-report-matters-torture-doesnt-work-and-americans-need-to/

Ohfour · Hooker

Blah blah blah...not buying it...

Bonny22Pye · Guru

If our soldiers were labeled enemy combatants in another country and tortured would you be ok with that country behaving the way we are? The reason we have these international laws is to make sure all soldiers are treated some what fairly. Or at least we try to put some standards in place.

Ohfour · Hooker

Bonny22Pye wrote:
If our soldiers were labeled enemy combatants in another country and tortured would you be ok with that country behaving the way we are? The reason we have these international laws is to make sure all soldiers are treated some what fairly. Or at least we try to put some standards in place.

Since they ARE being tortured and killed I see no reason not to torture to get info to get them out.

Bonny22Pye · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
If our soldiers were labeled enemy combatants in another country and tortured would you be ok with that country behaving the way we are? The reason we have these international laws is to make sure all soldiers are treated some what fairly. Or at least we try to put some standards in place.

Since they ARE being tortured and killed I see no reason not to torture to get info to get them out.

Wouldn't you want those countries to be brought up on war crime charges?

Ohfour · Hooker

Bonny22Pye wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
If our soldiers were labeled enemy combatants in another country and tortured would you be ok with that country behaving the way we are? The reason we have these international laws is to make sure all soldiers are treated some what fairly. Or at least we try to put some standards in place.

Since they ARE being tortured and killed I see no reason not to torture to get info to get them out.
Wouldn't you want those countries to be brought up on war crime charges?

No, I would like to see those countries wiped off the map. I'm dead serious. They started this mess, we need to finish it...

Bonny22Pye · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
If our soldiers were labeled enemy combatants in another country and tortured would you be ok with that country behaving the way we are? The reason we have these international laws is to make sure all soldiers are treated some what fairly. Or at least we try to put some standards in place.

Since they ARE being tortured and killed I see no reason not to torture to get info to get them out.
Wouldn't you want those countries to be brought up on war crime charges?
No, I would like to see those countries wiped off the map. I'm dead serious. They started this mess, we need to finish it...

What about the innocent kids?

Ohfour · Hooker

Bonny22Pye wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
If our soldiers were labeled enemy combatants in another country and tortured would you be ok with that country behaving the way we are? The reason we have these international laws is to make sure all soldiers are treated some what fairly. Or at least we try to put some standards in place.

Since they ARE being tortured and killed I see no reason not to torture to get info to get them out.
Wouldn't you want those countries to be brought up on war crime charges?
No, I would like to see those countries wiped off the map. I'm dead serious. They started this mess, we need to finish it...
What about the innocent kids?

DON'T CARE.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

Bonny22Pye wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
If our soldiers were labeled enemy combatants in another country and tortured would you be ok with that country behaving the way we are? The reason we have these international laws is to make sure all soldiers are treated some what fairly. Or at least we try to put some standards in place.

Since they ARE being tortured and killed I see no reason not to torture to get info to get them out.
Wouldn't you want those countries to be brought up on war crime charges?
No, I would like to see those countries wiped off the map. I'm dead serious. They started this mess, we need to finish it...
What about the innocent kids?

Sadly they are innocent now but by the time they are adults they will continue what their fathers & grandfathers started.

Ohfour · Hooker

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2871508/Four-young-Christians-brutally-beheaded-ISIS-Iraq-refusing-convert-Islam-says-Vicar-Baghdad-Canon-Andrew-White.html

Bonny22Pye · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
If our soldiers were labeled enemy combatants in another country and tortured would you be ok with that country behaving the way we are? The reason we have these international laws is to make sure all soldiers are treated some what fairly. Or at least we try to put some standards in place.

Since they ARE being tortured and killed I see no reason not to torture to get info to get them out.
Wouldn't you want those countries to be brought up on war crime charges?
No, I would like to see those countries wiped off the map. I'm dead serious. They started this mess, we need to finish it...
What about the innocent kids?
DON'T CARE.

WOW. I just don't think we can find any common ground.

Ohfour · Hooker

They do not care about our kids, I just can't bring myself to care about theirs. Especially since they are trained from a very young age. Have you seen the pictures of the 5 and 6 year old kids carrying around heads of Christians? Laughing and smiling the whole time? They are not innocent.

ed11563 · Guru

Lexxy wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
Bonny22Pye wrote:
If our soldiers were labeled enemy combatants in another country and tortured would you be ok with that country behaving the way we are? The reason we have these international laws is to make sure all soldiers are treated some what fairly. Or at least we try to put some standards in place.

Civilized people in civilized countries want to comply. But when the enemy murders civilians at will, it's pointless to try to be "better" than they are.
Since they ARE being tortured and killed I see no reason not to torture to get info to get them out.
The reason to NOT torture to get information is, it doesn't work.
Wouldn't you want those countries to be brought up on war crime charges?
No one there would care. It would be completely pointless.
No, I would like to see those countries wiped off the map. I'm dead serious. They started this mess, we need to finish it...
I agree completely.
What about the innocent kids?
Sadly they are innocent now but by the time they are adults they will continue what their fathers & grandfathers started.
Absolutely right, proven time and time again. When you're trying to cut out a cancer, you always wind up cutting out some healthy tissue with the tumors.

Why not just Nuke them and be done with it?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Ohfour wrote:
They do not care about our kids, I just can't bring myself to care about theirs. Especially since they are trained from a very young age. Have you seen the pictures of the 5 and 6 year old kids carrying around heads of Christians? Laughing and smiling the whole time? They are not innocent.

None of this is THEIR fault.

flan

Ohfour · Hooker

flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
They do not care about our kids, I just can't bring myself to care about theirs. Especially since they are trained from a very young age. Have you seen the pictures of the 5 and 6 year old kids carrying around heads of Christians? Laughing and smiling the whole time? They are not innocent.
None of this is THEIR fault.
flan

So we let them grow up to be more brutal than their fathers? No way.

ed11563 · Guru

Ohfour wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Ohfour wrote:
They do not care about our kids, I just can't bring myself to care about theirs. Especially since they are trained from a very young age. Have you seen the pictures of the 5 and 6 year old kids carrying around heads of Christians? Laughing and smiling the whole time? They are not innocent.
None of this is THEIR fault.
flan
So we let them grow up to be more brutal than their fathers? No way.

that's exactly what we've been doing for 60 years. Look where it's gotten us.

Bonny22Pye · Guru

You guys are talking about Genocide. I just can't wrap my head or my heart around it.

Ohfour · Hooker

Bonny22Pye wrote:
You guys are talking about Genocide. I just can't wrap my head or my heart around it.

So, if they kidnapped your son and you KNEW he was going to be beheaded BRUTALLY, you wouldn't condone torture to find out where is was so he could be saved...

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Bonny22Pye wrote:
If our soldiers were labeled enemy combatants in another country and tortured would you be ok with that country behaving the way we are? The reason we have these international laws is to make sure all soldiers are treated some what fairly. Or at least we try to put some standards in place.

It isn't our solders being detained and tortured and beheaded. It is our journalists, mission workers and other CIVILIANS over there TRYING TO HELP THEIR OWN PEOPLE.

That is what seems to be forgotten here.

They are doing this to people like you go to church with who are on mission trips or over there reporting the fighting or others there voluntarily.