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Post Info TOPIC: After Delay, NJ High School Lets Transgender Student Use Boys Restroom


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After Delay, NJ High School Lets Transgender Student Use Boys Restroom
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After Delay, NJ High School Lets Transgender Student Use Boys Restroom

Rubin Smyers, 16, spent months pressuring his New Jersey high school for equal access under state and federal law.

Rubin Smyers

After three months of negotiations, a public high school in New Jersey will allow a transgender student to use the boys restroom starting this month, school officials told BuzzFeed News.

But given state and federal laws that grant transgender students access to facilities in public schools that reflect their gender identity, 16-year-old Rubin Smyers, his family, and LGBT advocates wonder why they had to fight this battle at all.

“I wasn’t as excited as I expected to be,” Smyers told BuzzFreed News about the decision, which he heard from his principal on Dec. 9. “They were telling me that I had permission to do something I already had permission to do.”

Nancy Weber-Loeffert, the assistant superintendent at Ocean County Vocational Technical School, said school officials told Smyers to use single-stall unisex restroom because they did not want to be “violating the civil rights” of other people who “may be offended” by Smyers using the boys restroom.

But the civil rights law appears to support Smyers’ position — particularly in light of guidance issued earlier this year by the Department of Education stating that anti-transgender discrimination is banned under Title IX, the federal law that bans sex-based discrimination in public education. Under the guidance, transgender students should be able to use the restrooms and locker rooms that reflect their gender identity.

Weber-Loeffert is also the school’s compliance officer for Title IX. After Smyers raised complaints with the school, Weber-Loeffert went on, “We sought legal advice and we did research in regard to Title IX and civil rights law on what was the best solution to this problem.” She said that the school then agreed his civil rights granted him access to the boys room.

“We made a decision, based on what was happening across the country, that the student could use the bathroom they were identifying with their gender identity,” she explained.

Although the decision resolves Smyers’ complaint, the broader issue did not appear to be resolved.

When the Ocean County Vocational School Board of Education responded to Smyers’ complaint, it issued a policy that said “issues regarding transgender students will be resolved on a case-by-case basis.”

“I find that policy highly problematic,” Andrea Bowen, the executive director of Garden State Equality, told BuzzFeed News. In addition to federal rules, she said New Jersey law gives transgender students full access to public accommodations in public schools without negotiating those rights with school administrators — and certainly without negotiating rules on a case-by-case basis. “There should not have to be a meeting process and there should not have to be an appeal,” she said. Bowen said she likely will follow up with the district about the policy.

Ever since the school year began in September, officials at Ocean County Vocational Technical School have instructed Smyers to use a single-stall unisex restroom in a far corner of the sprawling school, which is housed in an airplane hangar. According to Weber-Loeffter, the school district never told Smyers he “absolutely cannot” use the boys room, but, rather, they they thought they resolved the issue by directing him to the unisex restroom.

But Smyers argued, “It is really isolating to be shoved in one corner of the school and be separated from other students like that.”

A junior in school’s performing arts academy, Smyers said he had used the boys room without complaints during the 2013-14 school year. (Weber-Loeffter also said she did not know of any student complaints about Smyers using the boys room.)

But just before summer break, Smyers explained, a school counselor told him that if he had to choose between restrooms, he should choose the girls rooms. “But the counselor said she would prefer I stayed out of those and just use unisex facilities,” he recalled. Smyers complied when the school year began in September, while raising the issue with his counselor repeatedly, he said. “As I got progressively more fed up with it, one day I figured I had to do something.”

Smyers launched a petition that argued it was “unethical” and “wrong” for the school to discriminate against a student’s restroom use based on gender identify. He was stunned when 2,000 people signed on in support. The other arrows in his quiver: Garden State Equality and his mother.

“My frustration as a parent, obviously, is that something as simple as my son being able to use the bathroom associated with his gender identity should have been a no-brainer,” said Jolene Smyers. “It was a courageous thing to come out and reveal his true persona.”

“He was relegated to this little stall,” she continued. “I felt they were undermining his self esteem and confidence. It was upsetting to him, and it was upsetting for us. I had been in school trying to reason with these people.” Mother and son had numerous exchanges with school officials, who deferred a decision for months.

When the district did reach a conclusion, “our joy was muted” because the school board said it would handle future complaints on a case-by-case basis, said Jolene Smyers.

“I am a hard pressed to believe there isn’t another kid who will come along with the same issue,” she added. “Why should they have to jump through these hoops when it’s already the law? It’s just wrong.”

Despite repeated emails, Weber-Loeffert did not comment on those concerns before this article was published. The US Department of Education said it could not respond in time for publication to questions about whether schools must publish explicit policies for transgender students.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/dominicholden/after-delay-nj-high-school-lets-transgender-student-use-boys#.ujvYJ8vrG

 



-- Edited by Lady Gaga Snerd on Sunday 21st of December 2014 10:13:48 AM

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I don't see why any male students would object to someone with a vagina using the male restroom.

But I would expect girls to object to someone with a penis using the female restroom.

 

Does this mean I'm prejudiced or unreasonable?



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I bet once she got in that guy's bathroom she still had to sit down to pee. Why? Cause she is a girl.

This stuff is just stupid.

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It is stupid. If you have a penis, you are on the boys team and you can use the boys restroom no matter what you want to call yourself. And, vice versa. Sheesh.



-- Edited by Lady Gaga Snerd on Sunday 21st of December 2014 03:29:36 PM

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Vette's SS!!

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Well, if he is legally recognized as a boy, then yeah, boys bathroom it is. Not a big deal.

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Deciding to call yourself a "boy" doesn't make you a boy.

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Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

Well, if he is legally recognized as a boy, then yeah, boys bathroom it is. Not a big deal.


 Not to some of us, who realize that sexual identity is just not THAT simple.

But carry on...

flan



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Legal flan. Legal. There is a reason we have laws.

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You can slap a fake penis on it but it's still a girl.



-- Edited by Southern_Belle on Sunday 21st of December 2014 04:39:02 PM

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flan327 wrote:
Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:

Well, if he is legally recognized as a boy, then yeah, boys bathroom it is. Not a big deal.


 Not to some of us, who realize that sexual identity is just not THAT simple.

But carry on...

flan


And a lot of kids go through a puppy phase. Guess it should be ok for them to pee on the fire hydrant.  

 



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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Legal flan. Legal. There is a reason we have laws.


 Like the stupid laws on the other thread?

flan



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And calling yourself a male when you are a female is somehow less idiotic?

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I have no idea how a transgender person feels, so I don't presume to know. I do, however, respect their right to choose.

flan

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How they feel is how they feel. Doesn't mean they get to redefine the world to suit them.

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But of course THEIR feelings are more important than the discomfort if others? Uh huh.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Legal flan. Legal. There is a reason we have laws.


 I don't know all the details, but yeah, you have to legally change your gender. It's like changing your nMe, only more so .



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Exactly. Just because I call myself the Queen of England doesn't mean everyone has to acquiesce to that.

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Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Exactly. Just because I call myself the Queen of England doesn't mean everyone has to acquiesce to that.


 Oh what a lovely idea! I wish to be a princess! Everyone must bow and scrape so my feelings won't be hurt. And I want my own bathroom.



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Southern_Belle wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:

Exactly. Just because I call myself the Queen of England doesn't mean everyone has to acquiesce to that.


 Oh what a lovely idea! I wish to be a princess! Everyone must bow and scrape so my feelings won't be hurt. And I want my own bathroom.


 Ok Princess SB.  *Curtsy*



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This is a bad idea. There is a reason we have separate bathrooms, and how you "feel" about your gender is not one of them.

I can just see stupid azzhats finding this person alone in the bathroom and trying to show "him" what it really means to be a girl.

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Lawyerlady wrote:

This is a bad idea. There is a reason we have separate bathrooms, and how you "feel" about your gender is not one of them.

I can just see stupid azzhats finding this person alone in the bathroom and trying to show "him" what it really means to be a girl.


I didn't want to be the one to say this. She said she's been using the boys' bathroom all through the last school year, and never had a problem. 



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I'm sorry, but if you have boy parts you don't belong in the girl's bathroom, and if you have girl parts, you don't belong in the boy's. That's not a gender identity issue, it's an issue of basic biology.

I support transgerder issues up to a point. I'd even support transgenders in an adult environment (like an office, the employee bathrooms, for example), because adults should be able to handle themselves like adults.

I can just hear it now. Little Jimmy gets home and tells his mommy how he's embarrassed because Robbie (born Roberta) saw him peeing at the urinal in the boy's room.

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WYSIWYG wrote:

I'm sorry, but if you have boy parts you don't belong in the girl's bathroom, and if you have girl parts, you don't belong in the boy's. That's not a gender identity issue, it's an issue of basic biology.

I support transgerder issues up to a point. I'd even support transgenders in an adult environment (like an office, the employee bathrooms, for example), because adults should be able to handle themselves like adults.

I can just hear it now. Little Jimmy gets home and tells his mommy how he's embarrassed because Robbie (born Roberta) saw him peeing at the urinal in the boy's room.


 But how big of an issue is that likely to be?  Maybe we have just had different upbringings, but the boys I've know have treated the world at large like a bathroom.  I have seen many boys and men pee. I am not scared for life, and neither are they.

Much ado about nothing.  Trans people have legal rights, let them use them without making a fuss.



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Dona Worry Be Happy wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:

I'm sorry, but if you have boy parts you don't belong in the girl's bathroom, and if you have girl parts, you don't belong in the boy's. That's not a gender identity issue, it's an issue of basic biology.

I support transgerder issues up to a point. I'd even support transgenders in an adult environment (like an office, the employee bathrooms, for example), because adults should be able to handle themselves like adults.

I can just hear it now. Little Jimmy gets home and tells his mommy how he's embarrassed because Robbie (born Roberta) saw him peeing at the urinal in the boy's room.


 But how big of an issue is that likely to be?  Maybe we have just had different upbringings, but the boys I've know have treated the world at large like a bathroom.  I have seen many boys and men pee. I am not scared for life, and neither are they.

Much ado about nothing.  Trans people have legal rights, let them use them without making a fuss.


 This is not about legal rights.  And what about everyone elses' rights to use the bathroom without a the opposite gender in there?  One does not trump the rest. 

 

It's a bathroom.  Go, use the one the matches your bits, and leave.  This school even had a UNISEX bathroom, which is the right compromise, btw - and it was not good enough.  That's stupid.



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If it's not a big deal then why can't a person with a penis use the boy's room and vice versa? Why is it OK to be vitally important to the Transgender and their comfort has to take precedence over someone else's? Everyone else is just supposed to shrug but they are not?

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Instead of boys or girls bathrooms we can have penis or vagins rooms. Geez.

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Lawyerlady wrote:

 

This school even had a UNISEX bathroom, which is the right compromise, btw - and it was not good enough. 


It is/was off in no-man's land, a VERY long walk from the classrooms. So one could question whether it was any kind of a solution at all. 

How would you like it if the only bathroom you could use at work was a 10 minute walk from your desk, each way? Not a good option. Not a reasonable accommodation.

 



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ed11563 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

 

This school even had a UNISEX bathroom, which is the right compromise, btw - and it was not good enough. 


It is/was off in no-man's land, a VERY long walk from the classrooms. So one could question whether it was any kind of a solution at all. 

How would you like it if the only bathroom you could use at work was a 10 minute walk from your desk, each way? Not a good option. Not a reasonable accommodation.

 


Oh BS.  I went to the largest school in TN. 3000 students.  They literally used the halls for car shows on the weekends.  The halls were that wide.

It took me about 2 minutes to walk from one end of the school to the other.  Even during class change. There is no high school in this country that is that long... 



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Much ado about nothing. Trans people have legal rights, let them use them without making a fuss.


Not everywhere...definitely not in my state...



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Let's put porta potties in the rooms next to everyones seat.

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Ohfour wrote:
ed11563 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:

 

This school even had a UNISEX bathroom, which is the right compromise, btw - and it was not good enough. 


It is/was off in no-man's land, a VERY long walk from the classrooms. So one could question whether it was any kind of a solution at all. 

How would you like it if the only bathroom you could use at work was a 10 minute walk from your desk, each way? Not a good option. Not a reasonable accommodation.

 


Oh BS.  I went to the largest school in TN. 3000 students.  They literally used the halls for car shows on the weekends.  The halls were that wide.

It took me about 2 minutes to walk from one end of the school to the other.  Even during class change. There is no high school in this country that is that long... 


They said the school is the size of an airplane hangar. 

Besides, girls take longer to pee than boys do.



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That's WAY smaller than my school....

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Which means what exactly? Does this kid have bladder issues or something?

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It can take the boys every second of the 6minutes between class to get from end of the school to the other. The halls are that crowded.

But there are bathrooms on every hall and sub hall and in the commons and both gyms. And then there are the locker rooms and teacher bathrooms.

So there really isn't a reason to not have access to a bathroom.

This wanting to use the opposite sexes bathroom has nothing to do with the person and more to do with proving some point.

Schools need to stop caving to these fringe groups and focus on important things.



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lilyofcourse wrote:

It can take the boys every second of the 6minutes between class to get from end of the school to the other. The halls are that crowded.

But there are bathrooms on every hall and sub hall and in the commons and both gyms. And then there are the locker rooms and teacher bathrooms.

So there really isn't a reason to not have access to a bathroom.

This wanting to use the opposite sexes bathroom has nothing to do with the person and more to do with proving some point.

Schools need to stop caving to these fringe groups and focus on important things.


 But from the OP it is federal and state law.



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Why does one person's supposed discomfort trump everyone else's? Why is their comfort somehow more important than other kids' discomfort?

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cadiver wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:

It can take the boys every second of the 6minutes between class to get from end of the school to the other. The halls are that crowded.

But there are bathrooms on every hall and sub hall and in the commons and both gyms. And then there are the locker rooms and teacher bathrooms.

So there really isn't a reason to not have access to a bathroom.

This wanting to use the opposite sexes bathroom has nothing to do with the person and more to do with proving some point.

Schools need to stop caving to these fringe groups and focus on important things.


 But from the OP it is federal and state law.


Law to provide a bathroom. It is a law to provide a bathroom for everyone in the school.

and they do that.

Doesn't also say this school has a unisex bathroom?

The requirements of the law have been fulfilled.

This is about agenda.  



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