TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

2 Yr Old Shoots Mom in Walmart

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

I saw this story yesterday.

WHY wasn't the gun locked?

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I am not against owning guns. And, we do have a couple of rifles. But, they are in locked storage. I would never want guns accessible with kids around. And, kids get into purses, that was just a bad plan. Either wear the gun on your body if have to carry one or keep a trigger lock on it or whatever. And, if he didn't shoot her, he could just as easily shot himself or a bystander. Then they would have to live with the guilt of that. And, the husband purchased this gun for his wife for Christmas.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

This IS a tragedy, but one that could have easily been avoided.

And I'm sorry, but:

“They are painting Veronica as irresponsible, and that is not the case,”

In this instance, she WAS irresponsible.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well, everyone has lapses in judgment flan. Hers just proved to be fatal. What he is saying that she wasn't an irresponsible person in life. This is a tragic mistake gone wrong. And, as I said , it could have gone wrong in so many ways from her child shooting himself, to shooting a bystander, etc. You can never relax around a gun. You cannot take a gun lightly. It can kill in a second.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Well, everyone has lapses in judgment flan. Hers just proved to be fatal. What he is saying that she wasn't an irresponsible person in life. This is a tragic mistake gone wrong. And, as I said , it could have gone wrong in so many ways from her child shooting himself, to shooting a bystander, etc. You can never relax around a gun. You cannot take a gun lightly. It can kill in a second.

Yes, I agree, BUT when dealing with a GUN...

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

I agree that was the wrong thing to do. But, I don't think the whole world has to beat up her character necessarily.

Fort Worth Mom · Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

How very sad. cry

huskerbb · Guru

Sad to say--but she WAS irresponsible. Letting a small child have access to a loaded handgun that easily is the definition of irresponsibility--and in this case, it had tragic consequences.

It would seem very unlikely that even if she had the gun on safe, it would have ended this way.

This is devastating, and while the FIL is upset it has become a talking point about gun rights vs. gun control--how can it not?

I am not in favor of very tight restrictions on gun control--but the question remains--if a supposedly "responsible" gun owner such as this has such an egregious lack of judgment, how in the world can the gun control lobby believe that the average joe schmoe can do better?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
Sad to say--but she WAS irresponsible. Letting a small child have access to a loaded handgun that easily is the definition of irresponsibility--and in this case, it had tragic consequences.

It would seem very unlikely that even if she had the gun on safe, it would have ended this way.

This is devastating, and while the FIL is upset it has become a talking point about gun rights vs. gun control--how can it not?

I am not in favor of very tight restrictions on gun control--but the question remains--if a supposedly "responsible" gun owner such as this has such an egregious lack of judgment, how in the world can the gun control lobby believe that the average joe schmoe can do better?

But they do make trigger locks, don't they?

flan (who will never own a gun...)

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Sad to say--but she WAS irresponsible. Letting a small child have access to a loaded handgun that easily is the definition of irresponsibility--and in this case, it had tragic consequences.

It would seem very unlikely that even if she had the gun on safe, it would have ended this way.

This is devastating, and while the FIL is upset it has become a talking point about gun rights vs. gun control--how can it not?

I am not in favor of very tight restrictions on gun control--but the question remains--if a supposedly "responsible" gun owner such as this has such an egregious lack of judgment, how in the world can the gun control lobby believe that the average joe schmoe can do better?
But they do make trigger locks, don't they?
flan (who will never own a gun...)

Sure--but I don't know that if I thought I needed to carry a gun in public that I'd put a trigger lock on, either. If you are truly confronted with a situation in which you need a gun for protection, taking the time to unlock the trigger lock would render the weapon useless.

She needed to:

A. make sure the gun was on safety which takes a fraction of a second to take off if needed, but would be HIGHLY unlikely for a two year old to be able to figure it out before mom could take it from him.

B. Keep control of her damn purse so the kid doesn't get the gun in the first place.

Yes, I know that MOST toddlers like to look through mom's purse--but most moms' purses don't have a gun in them. This mom KNEW she had a gun in there--and was careless--tragically so. Imagine how mom would feel if the kid had pulled the gun when they were checking out and shot the clerk or another customer.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Thanks for the explanation, husker.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I did not see in the article what type of gun it was. Not all hand guns have safeties on them.

But lets think about this.

You push your cart into the parking lot to load your loot into the car. Your child is in the cart and somebody comes up and tries to pull your cart away. You have one hand on the cart pulling with all your might to keep your child there and you are reaching into your bag with the other to get your gun.

But it is zippered in, and it has a trigger lock on it, and the key to the trigger lock in in another part of your bag, and the gun in unloaded.

Soooo. You think that guy trying to get your stuff is going to stand there when you call time out?

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Another thing. At two, I don't remember going through anyone's purse. I don't remember my kids getting into my purse.

May have I just don't remember it.

The good news is, this 2 year old will never remember this. Of course the older kids will but he wont. And if his family handle it right he wont have to wear this the rest of his life.

Maybe mom should have done better at keeping it out of her kid's reach. But it happened. It was a tragic accident.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
I did not see in the article what type of gun it was. Not all hand guns have safeties on them.

But lets think about this.

You push your cart into the parking lot to load your loot into the car. Your child is in the cart and somebody comes up and tries to pull your cart away. You have one hand on the cart pulling with all your might to keep your child there and you are reaching into your bag with the other to get your gun.

But it is zippered in, and it has a trigger lock on it, and the key to the trigger lock in in another part of your bag, and the gun in unloaded.

Soooo. You think that guy trying to get your stuff is going to stand there when you call time out?

Hmmm. Very few do not. A revolver might not--but the "safety" on that would be that the hammer needs to be pulled back which a toddler would be unlikely to be able to do.

If it doesn't have a safety, then she should have had an empty chamber so that at least the first time the trigger was pulled, it wouldn't fire.

Bottom line, though, she didn't do a good enough job keeping control of the gun so a toddler couldn't get it.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I have lived in all sorts of neighborhoods in my lifetime, in several states. I have lived "in the hood" and in ritzy suburbia and everywhere in between. I have worked jobs where I left the building with cash deposits and walked to my car and then to the bank. I have never, ever, felt the need to leave my home armed. The article says she never left home unarmed. I just cannot relate to this. I have never needed a gun, never been in a situation that a gun would have made better. I just don't understand needing to leave the house armed and feeling so strongly about needing to be armed that I needed a special purse to carry my gun in. I just can't relate to this thinking at all.

I am sorry for this family's loss. But I every toddler left to their own devices will root through mom's purse. This was irresponsible. Likely, she thought so highly of this "special purse" that she let her guard down.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
Another thing. At two, I don't remember going through anyone's purse. I don't remember my kids getting into my purse.

May have I just don't remember it.

The good news is, this 2 year old will never remember this. Of course the older kids will but he wont. And if his family handle it right he wont have to wear this the rest of his life.

Maybe mom should have done better at keeping it out of her kid's reach. But it happened. It was a tragic accident.

Lily, he WILL find out that he killed his mother.

flan

huskerbb · Guru

Whether you "felt the need" to be armed or not has nothing to do with anything.

But yeah, she was irresponsible no matter what her grieving FIL says.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Mellow Momma wrote:
I have lived in all sorts of neighborhoods in my lifetime, in several states. I have lived "in the hood" and in ritzy suburbia and everywhere in between. I have worked jobs where I left the building with cash deposits and walked to my car and then to the bank. I have never, ever, felt the need to leave my home armed. The article says she never left home unarmed. I just cannot relate to this. I have never needed a gun, never been in a situation that a gun would have made better. I just don't understand needing to leave the house armed and feeling so strongly about needing to be armed that I needed a special purse to carry my gun in. I just can't relate to this thinking at all.

I am sorry for this family's loss. But I every toddler left to their own devices will root through mom's purse. This was irresponsible. Likely, she thought so highly of this "special purse" that she let her guard down.

Exactly this!

DS2 wears a gun 24/7...but he usually keeps the door to his house unlocked.

Go figure.

flan

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Another thing. At two, I don't remember going through anyone's purse. I don't remember my kids getting into my purse.

May have I just don't remember it.

The good news is, this 2 year old will never remember this. Of course the older kids will but he wont. And if his family handle it right he wont have to wear this the rest of his life.

Maybe mom should have done better at keeping it out of her kid's reach. But it happened. It was a tragic accident.

Lily, he WILL find out that he killed his mother.
flan

Yeah, when he finds out, it will affect him for the rest of his life--how can it not?

Sure, it's some better that he will have no memory of it, but it will still affect him.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

huskerbb wrote:
Whether you "felt the need" to be armed or not has nothing to do with anything.

But yeah, she was irresponsible no matter what her grieving FIL says.

I am just trying to understand why a woman felt the need to never ever leave the house without a gun. I just don't get it. Trying to empathize with the woman, but I just can't because I don't understand why the almost fanatical need to be armed was so important to her.

Once while trying to find a dress for a special occasion, I was in a fitting room with DD. She took every tampon and pad out of my purse and unwrapped them all, sticking the pads to the wall. I think it took it about 45 seconds. Lol Kids LOVE mom's purse, it's like a forbidden treasure trove for them. Everything they need comes out of mom's purse...pacifiers, candy, tissues, all in mom's purse. It's natural for them to go digging in there.

huskerbb · Guru

But your experience is not hers. Maybe she or someone close to her was a victim of a mugging or a rape. Maybe there have been a lot of bad incidents in her neighborhood. Maybe her mom got carjacked.

LOTS of people carry guns for LOTS of reasons. Some do it just because they can.

The reasons are largely irrelevant.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

I hope that reason is a comfort to her family.

huskerbb · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
I hope that reason is a comfort to her family.

??? Why would it be? That makes ZERO sense.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Another thing. At two, I don't remember going through anyone's purse. I don't remember my kids getting into my purse.

May have I just don't remember it.

The good news is, this 2 year old will never remember this. Of course the older kids will but he wont. And if his family handle it right he wont have to wear this the rest of his life.

Maybe mom should have done better at keeping it out of her kid's reach. But it happened. It was a tragic accident.

Lily, he WILL find out that he killed his mother.
flan

You have no understanding of the difference between memory and knowledge.

You know you were born, you don't remember it.

Same thing here.

And if his family doesn't remind him of it every time something happens he wont have to wear it.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

I am not going to make this mom or her child villains here.

This is exactly what a tragic accident looks like.

The only reason a person needs to carry a gun is because they want to. It is a protected right under the constitution.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
I am not going to make this mom or her child villains here.

This is exactly what a tragic accident looks like.

The only reason a person needs to carry a gun is because they want to. It is a protected right under the constitution.

No. That cannot be the answer. This was preventable. What if this had been your child that had been killed while working as a cashier at Wal-Mart instead of the gun owner?

This is absolutely the fault of the gun owner in this case. They failed to adequately make provisions to prevent this tragedy.

Despite the FIL's protestations to the contrary, incidents such as these give the gun rights movement a black eye.

No, we cannot prevent all accidents with deadly weapons--but to shrug our shoulders and simply say "it happens" cannot be the answer. I hope that people learn from this.

Fort Worth Mom · Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

huskerbb wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
I am not going to make this mom or her child villains here.

This is exactly what a tragic accident looks like.

The only reason a person needs to carry a gun is because they want to. It is a protected right under the constitution.

No. That cannot be the answer. This was preventable. What if this had been your child that had been killed while working as a cashier at Wal-Mart instead of the gun owner?

This is absolutely the fault of the gun owner in this case. They failed to adequately make provisions to prevent this tragedy.

Despite the FIL's protestations to the contrary, incidents such as these give the gun rights movement a black eye.

No, we cannot prevent all accidents with deadly weapons--but to shrug our shoulders and simply say "it happens" cannot be the answer. I hope that people learn from this.

This is true. I hope people learn from this, too.

So very sad. And so very preventable. cry

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Another thing. At two, I don't remember going through anyone's purse. I don't remember my kids getting into my purse.

May have I just don't remember it.

The good news is, this 2 year old will never remember this. Of course the older kids will but he wont. And if his family handle it right he wont have to wear this the rest of his life.

Maybe mom should have done better at keeping it out of her kid's reach. But it happened. It was a tragic accident.

Lily, he WILL find out that he killed his mother.
flan
You have no understanding of the difference between memory and knowledge.
You know you were born, you don't remember it.
Same thing here.
And if his family doesn't remind him of it every time something happens he wont have to wear it.

Wow!

I don't even know where to start...

HE KILLED HIS MOTHER.

No one will need to "remind" him of that fact.

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
flan327 wrote:
lilyofcourse wrote:
Another thing. At two, I don't remember going through anyone's purse. I don't remember my kids getting into my purse.

May have I just don't remember it.

The good news is, this 2 year old will never remember this. Of course the older kids will but he wont. And if his family handle it right he wont have to wear this the rest of his life.

Maybe mom should have done better at keeping it out of her kid's reach. But it happened. It was a tragic accident.

Lily, he WILL find out that he killed his mother.
flan
You have no understanding of the difference between memory and knowledge.
You know you were born, you don't remember it.
Same thing here.
And if his family doesn't remind him of it every time something happens he wont have to wear it.

Wow!
I don't even know where to start...
HE KILLED HIS MOTHER.
No one will need to "remind" him of that fact.
flan

You really cant understand can you?

"hey is Bobby coming?"

"you mean Bobby the one who killed his mom?"

"Do you know Bobby?"

"Bobby, the mother killer?"

"Bobby, you have been trouble since the day you were born, just ask your mom"

OK. Do you understand what I mean about wearing it?

Like someone bringing up ANY past and attaching it to a person.

There is a difference between knowing something and remembering it. And there is a difference between having a past and wearing your past.

If you don't understand the difference, then you really never will.

huskerbb · Guru

If you don't think people are going to do that--you are daft. They absolutely will. Not everyone--but a LOT of people.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
If you don't think people are going to do that--you are daft. They absolutely will. Not everyone--but a LOT of people.

Thanks for trying, husker.

How many times does a toddler kill an adult?

The story will NEVER die (pun intended).

flan

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Well this kids name has not been released.

His family could move and no one in the new town would have to know it was him.

No I am not daft. But I do know that a 2 year old can be protected from this.

And if anyone thinks he cant be, then they are daft themselves.

But Ya'll go ahead and criminalize the wrong people.

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Well this kids name has not been released.

His family could move and no one in the new town would have to know it was him.

No I am not daft. But I do know that a 2 year old can be protected from this.

And if anyone thinks he cant be, then they are daft themselves.

But Ya'll go ahead and criminalize the wrong people.

It's not about "criminalizing" anyone--that's simply a stupid comment.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Lilly. He is going to know that his mom died in this manner. Hiding truth from people servea no purpose. He isn't to blame. But that doesn't mean he won't have some difficulty adjusting in the future.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Dad is going to go thru his own trial. He bought her the gun . That would be hard to live with too.

huskerbb · Guru

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Lilly. He is going to know that his mom died in this manner. Hiding truth from people servea no purpose. He isn't to blame. But that doesn't mean he won't have some difficulty adjusting in the future.

Yup.

In truth, he can't really be "protected" from this. At some point he will WANT to know how his mom died. Even if his family leaves town and lies to him his entire life, he'll be able to find out on the internet at some point when he's old enough.

I doubt if they will move, either.

tlc · Regular

Lily, this kid will have emotional scars for the rest of his life because he was there and most likely saw what happened. So he may not exactly remember, but there will be emotional scars. He will know he did it. Hopefully, his family will get him the psychological help he will need as he grows up.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Well lying to him his entire life is one of the worst ways to handle it. It is what it is.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

who is talking about lying?

I am saying there is no need in constant reminders or making it a constant in his life.

Like someone constantly throwing my past in my face or in anyone else's face. He doesn't have to wear it like a coat.

Tell me what any of you remember from when you were two?

He will know what he did. But he wont remember it and that is a good thing.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Nobody says " throw it in his face every day".

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

No he won't remember what happened. But he will be acutely aware all of his life that his mom is dead and he has to face life without her.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

Well the thought that he will need some kind of counseling or will be scarred forever is pretty much saying throw it in his face. He wont remember it.

It will be something he heard about. Something he read about.

He will have no personal memory of it and that is a wonderful thing.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Oh never mind. Geez.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Yeah how "wonderful".

huskerbb · Guru

lilyofcourse wrote:
Well the thought that he will need some kind of counseling or will be scarred forever is pretty much saying throw it in his face. He wont remember it.

It will be something he heard about. Something he read about.

He will have no personal memory of it and that is a wonderful thing.

Another flat out stupid comment.

lilyofcourse · My spirit animal is a pink flamingo.

No. Not stupid.

Do you remember being 2?

I doubt it.

If you were told weekly about an incident when you were two then it would be a constant, in your face reminder.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Ok. Just go on as if Mom never existed. No biggie.

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

It isn't the memory of the exact incident that will scar him as much as the knowledge that his mother is dead because he picked up a gun and shot her. Even if it was an accident. It will traumatize him to learn that she is dead by his own hand. That had he not shot her, she might be alive. That the only reason she isn't witness to his milestones is because he shot her dead himself.

Get it? He doesn't have to remember the incident. The knowledge of his actions will require him to get therapy. If someone told me I had shot someone dead at the age of 2, I would be devastated even if it was a stranger. This was his mother.

The fact that you can't see this astounds me.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Exactly.

TOTALLY GEEKED!

Idaho woman shot dead by 2-year-old son in Walmart was a nuclear research scientist