TOTALLY GEEKED!

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

RE: Should Telling Your LGBT Child 'It's Just a Phase' Be a Crime?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Depends how u define " acceptance". Apparently now it means acguiescing to everything someone wants or u aren't being " accepting" .
It also means ignoring your own thoughts and feelings on the matter, ignoring your religious beliefs, and doing nothing but making others happy.

Or maybe keeping your kid alive...

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

The fact that they SOUGHT help means they DID care about their child. Obviously if someone is resorting to kill themselves, then they do need help. And, btw, when did it become the role of strangers to tell you how to properly love your child? Wow.

And, yes, a BOY is not a GIRL no matter how much makeup you put on or how many hormones you inject. This flight of fantasy that we can simply pretend reality is something other than what it is, is totally bizarre. I can call my dog a "cat" all day long. I can buy my dog cat toys and feed her cat food and force everyone in my family to call her a cat but that does not make her a cat.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
"Yes, but yours were not already mentally ill." - Lawyerlady

The suicidal transsexual in the OP wasn't mentally ill, before being driven to suicide by her parents, either.
Nobody"drives" someone to suicide. It is something they choose to carry out on their own acoord.

Yes and no. How many stories have we read about teens being bullied to the point that they killed themselves? Suicide doesn't happen in a vacuum.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Depends how u define " acceptance". Apparently now it means acguiescing to everything someone wants or u aren't being " accepting" .
It also means ignoring your own thoughts and feelings on the matter, ignoring your religious beliefs, and doing nothing but making others happy.
Or maybe keeping your kid alive...
flan

Sigh. You cannot tiptoe through life to prevent the possibility of suicide. People commit suicide because they are mentally ill. You don't parent thinking "what might I possibly do today that might cause my kid to off themselves?" If you do live life with the constant thought of suicide, you are as mentally ill as they are and everybody needs help.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The fact that they SOUGHT help means they DID care about their child. Obviously if someone is resorting to kill themselves, then they do need help. And, btw, when did it become the role of strangers to tell you how to properly love your child? Wow.

And, yes, a BOY is not a GIRL no matter how much makeup you put on or how many hormones you inject. This flight of fantasy that we can simply pretend reality is something other than what it is, is totally bizarre. I can call my dog a "cat" all day long. I can buy my dog cat toys and feed her cat food and force everyone in my family to call her a cat but that does not make her a cat.

Your dog doesn't WANT to be a cat...very different from a transgender person.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Depends how u define " acceptance". Apparently now it means acguiescing to everything someone wants or u aren't being " accepting" .
It also means ignoring your own thoughts and feelings on the matter, ignoring your religious beliefs, and doing nothing but making others happy.
Or maybe keeping your kid alive...
flan

So, you can never disagree with your child about anything or show any disappointment or not resoundly rubber stamp and approve everything your children do because then they will all go jump off of bridges. I am sure that you have been judgmental in your life towards your kids flan. Everyone has. Well, everyone who is doing their job as a parent that is.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The fact that they SOUGHT help means they DID care about their child. Obviously if someone is resorting to kill themselves, then they do need help. And, btw, when did it become the role of strangers to tell you how to properly love your child? Wow.

And, yes, a BOY is not a GIRL no matter how much makeup you put on or how many hormones you inject. This flight of fantasy that we can simply pretend reality is something other than what it is, is totally bizarre. I can call my dog a "cat" all day long. I can buy my dog cat toys and feed her cat food and force everyone in my family to call her a cat but that does not make her a cat.
Your dog doesn't WANT to be a cat...very different from a transgender person.
flan

Which means what? If my dog WANTS to be a cat, my dog still cannot be a cat. WANTING something doesn't change reality.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The fact that they SOUGHT help means they DID care about their child. Obviously if someone is resorting to kill themselves, then they do need help. And, btw, when did it become the role of strangers to tell you how to properly love your child? Wow.

And, yes, a BOY is not a GIRL no matter how much makeup you put on or how many hormones you inject. This flight of fantasy that we can simply pretend reality is something other than what it is, is totally bizarre. I can call my dog a "cat" all day long. I can buy my dog cat toys and feed her cat food and force everyone in my family to call her a cat but that does not make her a cat.
Your dog doesn't WANT to be a cat...very different from a transgender person.
flan

So, now you know the minds of dogs? Maybe they do. They like the cat food better. They like laps. They try to get at the kitty litter. Some of them chase the laser pointer.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
"Yes, but yours were not already mentally ill." - Lawyerlady

The suicidal transsexual in the OP wasn't mentally ill, before being driven to suicide by her parents, either.
Nobody"drives" someone to suicide. It is something they choose to carry out on their own acoord.
Yes and no. How many stories have we read about teens being bullied to the point that they killed themselves? Suicide doesn't happen in a vacuum.
flan

Yes. BEcause we no longer teach people how to be resilient. We dont' teach people to overcome or to be strong or to stand on their own two feet. BTW, when is the last time anyone has been told "Stand on your own two feet"? That is probably "mean" now and if you did, someone would probably kill themselves.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Depends how u define " acceptance". Apparently now it means acguiescing to everything someone wants or u aren't being " accepting" .
It also means ignoring your own thoughts and feelings on the matter, ignoring your religious beliefs, and doing nothing but making others happy.
Or maybe keeping your kid alive...
flan
So, you can never disagree with your child about anything or show any disappointment or not resoundly rubber stamp and approve everything your children do because then they will all go jump off of bridges. I am sure that you have been judgmental in your life towards your kids flan. Everyone has. Well, everyone who is doing their job as a parent that is.

Exaggerating again.

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The fact that they SOUGHT help means they DID care about their child. Obviously if someone is resorting to kill themselves, then they do need help. And, btw, when did it become the role of strangers to tell you how to properly love your child? Wow.

And, yes, a BOY is not a GIRL no matter how much makeup you put on or how many hormones you inject. This flight of fantasy that we can simply pretend reality is something other than what it is, is totally bizarre. I can call my dog a "cat" all day long. I can buy my dog cat toys and feed her cat food and force everyone in my family to call her a cat but that does not make her a cat.
Your dog doesn't WANT to be a cat...very different from a transgender person.
flan
Which means what? If my dog WANTS to be a cat, my dog still cannot be a cat. WANTING something doesn't change reality.

And quite frankly, I highly doubt transgender people WANT to feel that way.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Depends how u define " acceptance". Apparently now it means acguiescing to everything someone wants or u aren't being " accepting" .
It also means ignoring your own thoughts and feelings on the matter, ignoring your religious beliefs, and doing nothing but making others happy.
Or maybe keeping your kid alive...
flan
So, you can never disagree with your child about anything or show any disappointment or not resoundly rubber stamp and approve everything your children do because then they will all go jump off of bridges. I am sure that you have been judgmental in your life towards your kids flan. Everyone has. Well, everyone who is doing their job as a parent that is.
Exaggerating again.
flan

What do you expect when you think a parent should consider the possibility of suicide every time they talk to their kid?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Depends how u define " acceptance". Apparently now it means acguiescing to everything someone wants or u aren't being " accepting" .
It also means ignoring your own thoughts and feelings on the matter, ignoring your religious beliefs, and doing nothing but making others happy.
Or maybe keeping your kid alive...
flan
So, you can never disagree with your child about anything or show any disappointment or not resoundly rubber stamp and approve everything your children do because then they will all go jump off of bridges. I am sure that you have been judgmental in your life towards your kids flan. Everyone has. Well, everyone who is doing their job as a parent that is.
Exaggerating again.
flan
What do you expect when you think a parent should consider the possibility of suicide every time they talk to their kid?

And where did I say that?

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

That's pretty much what you are saying.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Depends how u define " acceptance". Apparently now it means acguiescing to everything someone wants or u aren't being " accepting" .
It also means ignoring your own thoughts and feelings on the matter, ignoring your religious beliefs, and doing nothing but making others happy.
Or maybe keeping your kid alive...
flan
So, you can never disagree with your child about anything or show any disappointment or not resoundly rubber stamp and approve everything your children do because then they will all go jump off of bridges. I am sure that you have been judgmental in your life towards your kids flan. Everyone has. Well, everyone who is doing their job as a parent that is.
Exaggerating again.
flan
What do you expect when you think a parent should consider the possibility of suicide every time they talk to their kid?
And where did I say that?
flan

Right up there.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The fact that they SOUGHT help means they DID care about their child. Obviously if someone is resorting to kill themselves, then they do need help. And, btw, when did it become the role of strangers to tell you how to properly love your child? Wow.

And, yes, a BOY is not a GIRL no matter how much makeup you put on or how many hormones you inject. This flight of fantasy that we can simply pretend reality is something other than what it is, is totally bizarre. I can call my dog a "cat" all day long. I can buy my dog cat toys and feed her cat food and force everyone in my family to call her a cat but that does not make her a cat.
Your dog doesn't WANT to be a cat...very different from a transgender person.
flan
Which means what? If my dog WANTS to be a cat, my dog still cannot be a cat. WANTING something doesn't change reality.
And quite frankly, I highly doubt transgender people WANT to feel that way.

All the MORE reason to believe that it is REAL.

flan

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Actually a lot of feelings are false. You can feel that the world is against you, that nobody loves you and all kinds of feelings that are not true. If you live your life based on feelings you are going to make a lot of wrong turns based on false notions.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

flan327 wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
The fact that they SOUGHT help means they DID care about their child. Obviously if someone is resorting to kill themselves, then they do need help. And, btw, when did it become the role of strangers to tell you how to properly love your child? Wow.

And, yes, a BOY is not a GIRL no matter how much makeup you put on or how many hormones you inject. This flight of fantasy that we can simply pretend reality is something other than what it is, is totally bizarre. I can call my dog a "cat" all day long. I can buy my dog cat toys and feed her cat food and force everyone in my family to call her a cat but that does not make her a cat.
Your dog doesn't WANT to be a cat...very different from a transgender person.
flan
Which means what? If my dog WANTS to be a cat, my dog still cannot be a cat. WANTING something doesn't change reality.
And quite frankly, I highly doubt transgender people WANT to feel that way.
All the MORE reason to believe that it is REAL.
flan

Yes, their mental illness is real. No one has said their feelings and thoughts are not real - but that doesn't mean they are right.

Ohfour · Hooker

Lady Gaga Snerd wrote:
Actually a lot of feelings are false. You can feel that the world is against you, that nobody loves you and all kinds of feelings that are not true. If you live your life based on feelings you are going to make a lot of wrong turns based on false notions.

THIS a million times. There are times that I FEEL that I am a worthless piece of crap. Actually, I feel like that often. I have VERY VERY low self esteem. Even though I have tons of real friends, a husband that worships the ground I walk on, a job that is fulfilling and where I am respected across my field.

It's obvious that this boy's parents loved him. They tried to get him help. If a parent doesn't care, they don't try like these did...

huskerbb · Guru

rose wrote:
Well as long as you have God behind you and you know what is right then who gives a crap how your kid feels. We all know that LGBT community has a high depression rate And suicide rate but that isn't the point is it?
It's not the point to keep your child alive.
That is the real problem here.
You are a parent, it's not your place to make decisions based on your children's genitals. Can't they have one thing all to themselves?

Why can't these parents take their children's safety in mind and tell them once your opinion on LGBT and tell them that while you don't agree that you will leave them to judge their own sexual genders.
God will not smite you for doing this but if it's more important to be right then you go on and be right.

-- Edited by rose on Friday 9th of January 2015 01:27:10 AM

Just because they don't agree with you does NOT mean they didn't do all of those things you say they didn't.

There is NO "decision" to be made concerning genitals. Penis=boy, vagina=girl. END OF STORY. The decision was made when they were formed in the womb.

huskerbb · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
"Finally, transsexuals are already fvcked up in the head" - huskerbb

Compared to what: People that believe in an unprovable God? People that believe in the Big Bang? People that believe in the superiority of one race over all others? People that believe in the innate goodness of mankind? People that are homosexual? People that are heterosexual? People that are monogamous? People that are polygamous?

I think that we, as humans, are all "****ed up in the head", in one way or another, when looked at from the perspective of someone different than us.

Completely different--since in this case, one is etiher PROVABLY a male or a female.

WYSIWYG · Guru

"Really? So the APA only came out of the dark ages in 2012? Hysteria in women was simply another way to control women. You know - the most down-trodden group of people EVER. It is yet another example of how society affects the views of psychiatrists more than actual medicine." - Lawyerlady

I find it interesting that you don't mind that society demanded the change about hysteria in women, yet you are so dead set against it about transsexualism. Could the fact that you are a woman, but not a transsexual have anything to do with that?

WYSIWYG · Guru

"Actually a lot of feelings are false. You can feel that the world is against you, that nobody loves you and all kinds of feelings that are not true. If you live your life based on feelings you are going to make a lot of wrong turns based on false notions." - Lady Gaga Snerd

Interesting idea about "wrong turns based on false notions". Are you sure you aren't a vegan polygamous lesbian Buddhist? I mean, you feel that it's o.k. to eat meat, you feel you are monogamous, you feel you are straight, and you feel you are Christian. Is it possible you could be wrong because of false notions?

People are who they are, and they feel what they feel. How others feel about it, or whether others like it or not, isn't really relevant to the person that feels it.

WYSIWYG · Guru

"Completely different--since in this case, one is etiher PROVABLY a male or a female." - huskerbb

No different at all. All are examples of things that are processed in the mind of the person. Yes, the physical body has the parts of a male or female, but the mind can easily be wired the other way.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

WYSIWYG wrote:
"Completely different--since in this case, one is etiher PROVABLY a male or a female." - huskerbb

No different at all. All are examples of things that are processed in the mind of the person. Yes, the physical body has the parts of a male or female, but the mind can easily be wired the other way.

I'm going to follow you around on this thread and agree with you.

It's like a breath of fresh air, actually!

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

WYSIWYG wrote:
"Really? So the APA only came out of the dark ages in 2012? Hysteria in women was simply another way to control women. You know - the most down-trodden group of people EVER. It is yet another example of how society affects the views of psychiatrists more than actual medicine." - Lawyerlady

I find it interesting that you don't mind that society demanded the change about hysteria in women, yet you are so dead set against it about transsexualism. Could the fact that you are a woman, but not a transsexual have anything to do with that?

The thing about women was MADE UP. Not to mention, it was by a medical community that used to bleed people with leeches to cure them and that was all men when women weren't even allowed to be doctors, or own property, and hey, if their husbands beat them, they deserved it.

There is no denying that there is a problem if a person thinks they are a female when they have a male body or vice versa. You can't have that argument both ways - they have a problem, so they need special understanding and support by their parents, but it's perfectly normal. It's NOT normal for the mind and body to disagree on gender. And trying to say it is is a disservice to those that seek and want treatment for it.

-- Edited by Lawyerlady on Saturday 10th of January 2015 06:53:05 AM

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

WYSIWYG wrote:
"Completely different--since in this case, one is etiher PROVABLY a male or a female." - huskerbb

No different at all. All are examples of things that are processed in the mind of the person. Yes, the physical body has the parts of a male or female, but the mind can easily be wired the other way.

Then that is an illness.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Furthermore - when CHILDREN report feelings of being transgendered - for 70-80% of them, it IS just a phase. That's proven through studies. "You won't hear it from those championing transgender equality, but controlled and follow-up studies reveal fundamental problems with this movement. When children who reported transgender feelings were tracked without medical or surgical treatment at both Vanderbilt University and London's Portman Clinic, 70%-80% of them spontaneously lost those feelings. Some 25% did have persisting feelings; what differentiates those individuals remains to be discerned."

You all need to read this article by Dr. McHugh - the former psychiatrist in chief at John Hopkins and still their Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry,

www.wsj.com/articles/paul-mchugh-transgender-surgery-isnt-the-solution-1402615120

Denying it is a mental illness is not helpful. You are hurting those you profess to support.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
"Actually a lot of feelings are false. You can feel that the world is against you, that nobody loves you and all kinds of feelings that are not true. If you live your life based on feelings you are going to make a lot of wrong turns based on false notions." - Lady Gaga Snerd

Interesting idea about "wrong turns based on false notions". Are you sure you aren't a vegan polygamous lesbian Buddhist? I mean, you feel that it's o.k. to eat meat, you feel you are monogamous, you feel you are straight, and you feel you are Christian. Is it possible you could be wrong because of false notions?

People are who they are, and they feel what they feel. How others feel about it, or whether others like it or not, isn't really relevant to the person that feels it.

Is there a material reality or not? Is it possible for me to say to my dog, You are a dog? Or, is everything just whatever we think it is whenever we think it? I mean, I am trapped in my current body, but in my mind I am Kate Upton! biggrin

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Ok, am I a "vegan"? I routinely eat beef, chicken, etc. Sooo is there any OBJECTIVE reality that says I am a vegan or does merely saying it, make me so?

huskerbb · Guru

WYSIWYG wrote:
"Completely different--since in this case, one is etiher PROVABLY a male or a female." - huskerbb

No different at all. All are examples of things that are processed in the mind of the person. Yes, the physical body has the parts of a male or female, but the mind can easily be wired the other way.

Yes, in people that are fvcked up--but is the solution to "give in" to the fvck up, or try to fix the fvck up like we do with most mental illnesses?

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
"Completely different--since in this case, one is etiher PROVABLY a male or a female." - huskerbb

No different at all. All are examples of things that are processed in the mind of the person. Yes, the physical body has the parts of a male or female, but the mind can easily be wired the other way.
Yes, in people that are fvcked up--but is the solution to "give in" to the fvck up, or try to fix the fvck up like we do with most mental illnesses?

husker, the point IS that not all of us feel transgenders are effed up.

flan

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
"Completely different--since in this case, one is etiher PROVABLY a male or a female." - huskerbb

No different at all. All are examples of things that are processed in the mind of the person. Yes, the physical body has the parts of a male or female, but the mind can easily be wired the other way.
Yes, in people that are fvcked up--but is the solution to "give in" to the fvck up, or try to fix the fvck up like we do with most mental illnesses?
husker, the point IS that not all of us feel transgenders are effed up.
flan

And that's where you are wrong.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
"Completely different--since in this case, one is etiher PROVABLY a male or a female." - huskerbb

No different at all. All are examples of things that are processed in the mind of the person. Yes, the physical body has the parts of a male or female, but the mind can easily be wired the other way.
Yes, in people that are fvcked up--but is the solution to "give in" to the fvck up, or try to fix the fvck up like we do with most mental illnesses?
husker, the point IS that not all of us feel transgenders are effed up.
flan
And that's where you are wrong.

No, sir, that's where YOU are wrong.

(See how that works?)

flan

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
WYSIWYG wrote:
"Completely different--since in this case, one is etiher PROVABLY a male or a female." - huskerbb

No different at all. All are examples of things that are processed in the mind of the person. Yes, the physical body has the parts of a male or female, but the mind can easily be wired the other way.
Yes, in people that are fvcked up--but is the solution to "give in" to the fvck up, or try to fix the fvck up like we do with most mental illnesses?
husker, the point IS that not all of us feel transgenders are effed up.
flan
And that's where you are wrong.
No, sir, that's where YOU are wrong.
(See how that works?)
flan

It doesn't work the way you say. Biology is on my side. You have, um, nothing.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

What happened to being a parent instead of always trying to be your child's friend? That's what your friends do, accept you without much reservation. And, since when was it necessary to "understand" everyone? I can love someone and not "understand" everything they think or feel. I can love someone and not LIKE or love everything they do or every choice they make in life. The real failure isn't the parents. It is the friends who fanned the flames and told this person how horrible their parents are that they don't understand the transgender thing and so forth. I have seen far too many people who have issues and the people around them IMMEDIATELY jump on their bandwagon telling them how "wronged" they are.
I had a friend who was having typical marital difficulties. You know, the housework battles, blah, blah. But, immediately the girlfriends will talk about how horrible he is, and you don't have to take that, etc. There are 2 sides to the coin. And, yes, you want your friends to support you, but some marriages fall apart being fueled by the people around them helping them play the victim.