TOTALLY GEEKED!

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

RE: A Teacher Tells A Story About A Boy In Her Class. It Has A Beginning, A Middle, And No End.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

huskerbb wrote:
There is no indication that she does not speak English. Even if she is a native, she's from CANADA for God's sakes. They have schools on all the reservations and in every village. Native languages are barely spoken, anymore. It's HIGHLY likely she knows more English than a native language. That is NOT a "barrier" here.

Everyone got pissed when I assumed the kids all had different fathers but they have no problem assuming she has no education and doesn't speak English. It's okay for everyone else to assume stuff I guess.

And it doesn't say she JUST moved here.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
There is no indication that she does not speak English. Even if she is a native, she's from CANADA for God's sakes. They have schools on all the reservations and in every village. Native languages are barely spoken, anymore. It's HIGHLY likely she knows more English than a native language. That is NOT a "barrier" here.
Everyone got pissed when I assumed the kids all had different fathers but they have no problem assuming she has no education and doesn't speak English. It's okay for everyone else to assume stuff I guess.
And it doesn't say she JUST moved here.

How old is she? When did she have her first baby? Did she attend school regularly?

flan

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
I agree with you that the mother needs to take responsibility for her actions and quit getting pregnant. But that isn't the little boy's fault. In the meantime, he is hungry and has no adequate clothing. How he got to that situation is a separate issue. What can we do for him NOW so that we can break the cycle of poverty and he can get his education?

He is in school, so he can get an education. His mother has to be part of the solution to get him out of poverty, though.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Mellow Momma wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
flan327 wrote:
Mellow Momma wrote:
I just think there are factors here that none of us can even imagine. We are not a marginalized population, from a remote wilderness area moving to a populated city where we don't speak the language. Yes, she should have had a plan. But maybe her plan was get the hell out of an abusive, terrible situation and then regroup. The regrouping needs to start yesterday, no doubt. But I have not walked a mile on her shoes. It's easy to look at her and judge, but we aren't her. I think she needs educated and she needs services. I don't think she should get them for her entire life...she needs a plan and she needs to keep up her end of the deal. No more babies, work toward a professional certificate of some kind, or a degree and get a job. I don't think welfare should be a lifestyle, but I think she deserves the benefit of the doubt until she proves she isn't doing her share to get back on her feet. She may be at rock bottom and just needs someone to show her the way out. Not everyone can see the way out for themselves.
Thank you for stating the obvious.
flan
But I can judge because I have been there. I have walked a mile in her shoes. I didn't leave an abusive husband. He left me for a mistress. I most definitely can imagine the factors. I can imagine what it was like asking my parents for shelter and being turned down. This woman has more than I had to start out with. So unless she just recently came to Canada she got pregnant while she was there. She needs to quit having kids and get a plan together. And yes, she can do that while she is pregnant. And if her kids are going to school then there is someone at her kids school she can talk to even if she doesn't speak the language. They have to provide a translator. They could give her info. Someone has to make the first move and since they are HER kids it's up to her. It's NOT societies responsibility to take care of your (general you) kids.
My point is she probably doesn't know that talking to someone at school will even help! She probably has no idea ! She probably doesn't know they have to give her a translator! You can't assume she knows that would help at all!

Why not? You assumed she doesn't speak the language and that she is so stupid she doesn't even know how to ask questions.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

There is absolutely NOTHING in that story to suggest she doesn't speak the language, and much to say she does -

"The walking school bus picked up this child last week, and when the support worker got to the door the mom, nine months pregnant, in a new city, trying to build her new life, confided in the worker that she had no groceries. She had only one single jar of olives in her fridge, and she started to cry. She was worried that she wouldn't have time to get groceries before the baby arrived. She's panicked that she won't be ready. Her son, my student, my kind, smart, lovely student, tried to comfort his mom as she stood there crying in the doorway. He is eight years old. And then he came to school to try to learn."

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Ultimately this woman has to take some initiative and be responsible for herself and her kids. No one else can do it for her.

huskerbb · Guru

flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
She "confided" in the worker that she had no groceries. She communicated her "worries" to said worker. She speaks English.
Maybe the worker is incompetent. Maybe the mother's command of the English language is poor.
We don't know.
flan

They teach English in Canada. Even in the native areas.

What, you think all the natives on reservations in the U.S. can't speak English?

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Lawyerlady wrote:
There is absolutely NOTHING in that story to suggest she doesn't speak the language, and much to say she does -

"The walking school bus picked up this child last week, and when the support worker got to the door the mom, nine months pregnant, in a new city, trying to build her new life, confided in the worker that she had no groceries. She had only one single jar of olives in her fridge, and she started to cry. She was worried that she wouldn't have time to get groceries before the baby arrived. She's panicked that she won't be ready. Her son, my student, my kind, smart, lovely student, tried to comfort his mom as she stood there crying in the doorway. He is eight years old. And then he came to school to try to learn."

There is also NOTHING in the the story to assume she is "fleeing a domestic violence situation". Absolutely NONE. Nor does it indicate anywhere that she has a low IQ or lack of an education. Some people here are making more and more excuses for her.

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
There is absolutely NOTHING in that story to suggest she doesn't speak the language, and much to say she does -

"The walking school bus picked up this child last week, and when the support worker got to the door the mom, nine months pregnant, in a new city, trying to build her new life, confided in the worker that she had no groceries. She had only one single jar of olives in her fridge, and she started to cry. She was worried that she wouldn't have time to get groceries before the baby arrived. She's panicked that she won't be ready. Her son, my student, my kind, smart, lovely student, tried to comfort his mom as she stood there crying in the doorway. He is eight years old. And then he came to school to try to learn."
There is also NOTHING in the the story to assume she is "fleeing a domestic violence situation". Absolutely NONE. Nor does it indicate anywhere that she has a low IQ or lack of an education. Some people here are making more and more excuses for her.

Or we are trying to have some compassion, rather than saying, "Take her kids away from her NOW."

flan

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I never said take her kids away from her. I said someone needs to come investigate. If all she has in the house to eat is a can of olives someone needs to find out why. Compassion is wonderful but it doesn't pay the bills. Nor does it keep her from continuing to make poor decisions and having baby after baby after baby. Sure, let's help her so she can sit at home and have more babies...

flan327 · Itty bitty's Grammy

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
I never said take her kids away from her. I said someone needs to come investigate. If all she has in the house to eat is a can of olives someone needs to find out why. Compassion is wonderful but it doesn't pay the bills. Nor does it keep her from continuing to make poor decisions and having baby after baby after baby. Sure, let's help her so she can sit at home and have more babies...

You did not say that, but it was said in the thread.

flan

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
I never said take her kids away from her. I said someone needs to come investigate. If all she has in the house to eat is a can of olives someone needs to find out why. Compassion is wonderful but it doesn't pay the bills. Nor does it keep her from continuing to make poor decisions and having baby after baby after baby. Sure, let's help her so she can sit at home and have more babies...

I have said repeatedly that she needs to quit having babies, and she needs to get a plan in place and hold up her end of the bargain - work towards a professional certificate or degree, get a job, and quit having kids. Not sure how much clearer I can be about that.

I just think that there may be reasons why she is in the predicament she is in and that we should try and have some compassion for her before we immediately take her kids away. She needs help, she needs social services. She HAS reached out, as you have pointed out, yet she still does not have those services. Either no one has offered to help her, or she isn't getting the help for some reason. It needs to be determined what the breakdown is. Maybe it is 100% her fault, maybe it isn't. I don't know because I don't know her or the story. But I am willing to learn more before I condemn her.

-- Edited by Mellow Momma on Thursday 8th of January 2015 10:21:26 PM

Mellow Momma · Sniff...sniff, sniff. Yay! A Bum!

huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
She "confided" in the worker that she had no groceries. She communicated her "worries" to said worker. She speaks English.
Maybe the worker is incompetent. Maybe the mother's command of the English language is poor.
We don't know.
flan
They teach English in Canada. Even in the native areas.

What, you think all the natives on reservations in the U.S. can't speak English?

I never said English. Many places in Canada speak French as the primary language for school, business and government.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Mellow Momma wrote:
Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
I never said take her kids away from her. I said someone needs to come investigate. If all she has in the house to eat is a can of olives someone needs to find out why. Compassion is wonderful but it doesn't pay the bills. Nor does it keep her from continuing to make poor decisions and having baby after baby after baby. Sure, let's help her so she can sit at home and have more babies...
I have said repeatedly that she needs to quit having babies, and she needs to get a plan in place and hold up her end of the bargain - work towards a professional certificate or degree, get a job, and quit having kids. Not sure how much clearer I can be about that.
I just think that there may be reasons why she is in the predicament she is in and that we should try and have some compassion for her before we immediately take her kids away. She needs help, she needs social services. She HAS reached out, as you have pointed out, yet she still does not have those services. Either no one has offered to help her, or she isn't getting the help for some reason. It needs to be determined what the breakdown is. Maybe it is 100% her fault, maybe it isn't. I don't know because I don't know her or the story. But I am willing to learn more before I condemn her.

-- Edited by Mellow Momma on Thursday 8th of January 2015 10:21:26 PM

And I have said repeatedly that her kids don't need to be yanked away from her immediately. I don't know how much clearer I can be about that. What I have said is someone needs to come out and investigate as to why she isn't doing what she needs to be doing. Yes, those are her kids. Yes, she is solely responsible for them. Yes, give her the help she needs. But if she can't, or won't, get help then yes she should have the kids removed. And for gods sake quit having kids. It's not helping. And where are the fathers? She's made TONS of poor decisions in her life. Let's ASSUME they all have the same father. Where is he? Why isn't he helping? Stop having babies with this man that is so clearly not in the picture. And if she shows continually that she cannot get her life together THEN I agree she should have the kids taken.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

Also, she came here and found a way to navigate getting a place to live and a phone. If her communication skills are good enough to do that then she has enough skills to navigate getting some help. She is not the victim here. And how is she paying for her apartment/house and utilities? I would love to know that. If someone is paying them for her then she has help. If she is not paying them then she is getting some assistance somewhere and knows something about the system.

rose · Newbie

The first problem with this article is that this teacher is obviously very ignorant thinking the average American would care about this story, that they would actually be moved in such a way as to want to help.

Lindley · Guru

Could it be possible this woman ran from a abusive home?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Where's Dad?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

rose wrote:
The problem with this article is that this teacher is obviously very ignorant thinking the average American would care about this story, that they would actually be moved in such a way as to want to help.

Oh please. America is one of the most generous nations on the planet. Take your guilt trip elsewhere. If your parents suck that is sad and yeah you arent going to have as much as kids who have responsible parents.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
Ultimately this woman has to take some initiative and be responsible for herself and her kids. No one else can do it for her.

Yup.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Nobody Just Nobody wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
There is no indication that she does not speak English. Even if she is a native, she's from CANADA for God's sakes. They have schools on all the reservations and in every village. Native languages are barely spoken, anymore. It's HIGHLY likely she knows more English than a native language. That is NOT a "barrier" here.
Everyone got pissed when I assumed the kids all had different fathers but they have no problem assuming she has no education and doesn't speak English. It's okay for everyone else to assume stuff I guess.
And it doesn't say she JUST moved here.

Yup. Where's Dad?

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
So let's try throwing money at education instead! Education budgets are getting cut every year, with more and more kids in the school system needing services. Instead of throwing money at welfare, let's throw it at education! Feeding them (WIC, SNAP etc) doesn't make the kids smarter, it just helps them be prepared to learn. Let's get programs started in the schools to teach these kids impulse control, how to make choices...etc instead of just saying "the parents should be doing it". Yes they should be. But they arent. So someone has to or the end result will be exactly the same. And we will still be here bitching about it not changing, while we haven't done a single thing to improve it! Continuing down the same course that we know doesn't work is insanity by definition.

You dont think we are throwing money at education ? We are. Throwing money doesnt fix irrespinsible people. No amount of money can help oeople who wont help themselves.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

I am the one who said the kids should be taken from her. She cannot care for them, she will not/has not cared for them. They are hungry, don't have weather appropriate clothing, and more than likely are lacking other essentials. All in a country where there is help for people in her situation. She is choosing not to get help. Don't let those children suffer due to their mother's choices.

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

How many more services can we give people that won't help themselves? It's never Enough. The responsibility to take care of HER children is HERS and the sperm donor who made them. Yes, society already gives 1/3 or more of everything they have to help people. What else do you want? The kids are getting fed at school and getting an education. There are food banks, pantries, Angel minisitries, churches, charities, social services, food stamps, reduced rent, heating assistance and on and on and on and on.

I will help someone to the EXTENT that they help themselves. Which means in the past year ,my oldest son didn't do much to help himself after High School. Sure, he can live at home as long as he works which he is. Now, he wants to go to school and I am going to give him a shot at it. If he screws off or doesn't do the work, then he can move out and go out and figure out his life for himself and work three jobs at McD's. I can't care MORE their life than THEY do.

huskerbb · Guru

Mellow Momma wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
flan327 wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
She "confided" in the worker that she had no groceries. She communicated her "worries" to said worker. She speaks English.
Maybe the worker is incompetent. Maybe the mother's command of the English language is poor.
We don't know.
flan
They teach English in Canada. Even in the native areas.

What, you think all the natives on reservations in the U.S. can't speak English?
I never said English. Many places in Canada speak French as the primary language for school, business and government.

Not "many", a few--and pretty much only in urban areas such as Quebec and Montreal.

It would also not be the case in British Columbia, or the native villages.

TrudyML · Guru

Mmmmm, olive casserole.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I think compassion is great. But compassion without action is completely worthless. And we see that in this story. This school has tons of compassion for this mother and child but they have taken no action to help them out. Three times (at least) the school has come face to face with her issues and not once have they done anything but feel compassion for her. First, the bus monitor. Instead of reporting to the social worker what happened so they can direct her to help they just talk about how sad the whole thing is. Second, the boy has inappropriate shoes. Instead of calling the authorities so they can intercede and get her some help they just talk about how horrible this is. And lastly the boy has a concussion and the person just walks and gets the mother. Nothing is done then either except to feel this overwhelming compassion for her. Why hasn't the SCHOOL interceded in his behalf? Why do they expect others to do the job they are failing so miserably at? I don't think the school needs to support or provide for her but obviously they KNOW the situation and have done nothing to step in and help. WHY? The teachers, counselors, and principal can't all be stupid and non English speaking. So basically the school is just as guilty of doing nothing and yet complaining that society needs to do more.