TOTALLY GEEKED!

Blankie · Guru

Annie's Mailbox - caring for aging parents

Blankie · Guru

I could have written this letter. I wonder whether my sister did (and just changed a few facts to not be recognized).

karl271 · Guru

As an aging individual, I will say that both I and my wife want to stay in our home as long as we can. We have no children so no one will be inconvenienced if we get up at all hours, etc. But it seems that Annie is assuming all of people will become careless, useless individuals and should plan on moving into assisted living (or worse) at some time. And, as to the OP, if the parents pose a threat to themselves or others, I am sure there are legal remedies - i.e. being appointed legal guardian, etc., that would allow placing them into assisted care.

If I am not reading it wrong, it seems the OP and all her siblings, mates, etc., live in the same house. I wonder what the story is on that? I also wonder if maybe it is just "too much trouble" to put with with mom and dad..... Never mind all the crap you put them through growing up.

-- Edited by karl271 on Wednesday 14th of January 2015 08:54:00 PM

Lady Gaga Snerd · Guru

That's a hard transition. And it's hard to always know when it is the best time.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

karl271 wrote:
As an aging individual, I will say that both I and my wife want to stay in our home as long as we can. We have no children so no one will be inconvenienced if we get up at all hours, etc. But it seems that Annie is assuming all of people will become careless, useless individuals and should plan on moving into assisted living (or worse) at some time. And, as to the OP, if the parents pose a threat to themselves or others, I am sure there are legal remedies - i.e. being appointed legal guardian, etc., that would allow placing them into assisted care.
If I am not reading it wrong, it seems the OP and all her siblings, mates, etc., live in the same house. I wonder what the story is on that? I also wonder if maybe it is just "too much trouble" to put with with mom and dad..... Never mind all the crap you put them through growing up.

-- Edited by karl271 on Wednesday 14th of January 2015 08:54:00 PM

I think you are reading it wrong. It sounds to me like they are taking turns staying over there and when they do they are kept awake all night. And if they are really getting up in the middle of the night and turning on the oven and wandering outside - it's probably not safe for them to be there alone.

I know what to do_sometimes · Frozen Sucks!

I am fully aware of what may/will happen to me when my brain starts not being able to make decisions. I will want to move into an assisted living facility, a studio apt perhaps, that is part of a larger facility that is a nursing home. I know you have to be able to "walk in" to the assisted living facility to qualify. I don't want to be a burden to my children. My grandmother was a burden to mom and her sis. Luckily GP set things up financially, but getting GM from her home to the nursing home was a horror show. Now, is one of my kids wants me to live with them at their own choosing, fine. But we shouldn't burden our kids with 24/7 care. Just MHO

chef · Guru

I will probably end up caring for my parents at some point. I hope to have a large enough home to be able to move them in and, hopefully, enough extra money to be able to hire a nurse if needed.

Both of my Grandpas lived in their homes until they died. My Grandmas will probably do the same.

Personally, I'd like to move to an assisted living facility in my old age. I like the idea of being able to go to the dining room and get food if I don't feel like cooking. I also like that there are activities and such for me to participate in. I anticipate outliving DH, unfortunately. Longevity runs in my family for both males and females (80s and beyond). The males tend to die in their 60s in his family.

karl271 · Guru

My brother entered assisted living last year. He evidently is not too happy about it and since entering has begun to deteriorate mentally... I am no expert, but I think the loss of independence creates a big problem in assisted living. In his case, no car allowed; not able to go out anywhere unless one of his kids takes him, etc. etc. I am sure there are a lot of nice things (and safe things) about assisted living, but the loss of independence would be really hard on myself (and my wife, for that matter). I do not foresee assisted living in our future, but one never knows....

We are not great on "activities" with other older people now and do not think that would change. Of course I am basing this on what I have seen over here in the assisted living homes and nursing facilities..... Still too much of the condescending attitude of "oh, now, you do not want to do that." "Wouldn't you like to try making these paper swans", etc. etc. I feel this is treating older people not with respect, but with a kind of pity for them in the assumption that they cannot understand normal conversation or make their own decisions, etc....

But, sigh, I suppose it is on a case by case basis and no one wants to go into assisted living.... It just cannot be avoided.....

NAOW · Vette's SS

My grandma and my husbands grandpa are both in a what is called a 'retirement home' which is like assisted living with more freedom. It's like an apartment complex, but they serve three full meals (the food is good, DH and I go and eat with them at least once a week) in the dining hall, with a full snack bar. You can bring up to two small pets. There are 3 nurses who are in building 24/7 but are not employed by the home, so it's an as needed basis. Each apartment is handicap accessible and has several pull cords for emergencies. It includes housekeeping once a week that cleans the apartment and washes the bedding. Residents do their own laundry unless they hire it out. There is a shuttle for those that can't drive that will take them wherever they want to go. They can use their own cars if they are able though.

Dh's grandpa loves it there, as do all of the residents I've met. My grandma hated it at first, and now pretends she hates it but really doesn't mind it. She was hating life in Ca away from all of us, so we moved her here to her own house, but then she missed home, so we moved her back. Her dementia was getting too bad for her to safely live by herself- and she was hating being away from us again. So we moved her back here again. My other Uncle tried moving her in with him, but she didn't like that. So we are all kind of resigned to the fact that she is not going to be happy wherever she is. On her more lucid days she has admitted as much herself too. Honestly, she probably will need to go to assisted living soon, but this is a nice alternative until that becomes absolutely necessary. I think DH's grandpa could live there the rest of his days as long as no bigger health problems come up.

DH and I have talked, and we hope that will still be an option when we get to that stage in our life.

-- Edited by NAOW on Wednesday 14th of January 2015 10:59:26 PM

karl271 · Guru

NAOW, sounds like a great place. If it becomes necessary, hope we can find one as nice. Thanks for posting this very positive information...

chef · Guru

My ex's mom lived in a progressive care facility (I don't know the proper name). The levels of care ranged from independent living to nursing home. The facility also had a dementia care unit.

NAOW · Vette's SS

karl271 wrote:
NAOW, sounds like a great place. If it becomes necessary, hope we can find one as nice. Thanks for posting this very positive information...

You're welcome!

It's the only once in our town like it. Dh and I have been very impressed.

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Independent living facilities can be wonderful. They are basically really nice dorms. You have your own apartment, but there is help in the building if you need it.

TrudyML · Guru

Dealing with it with the QM right now. Sheer misery. House is rotten, threadbare. Fridge is gross. I sneak in and pitch crap. Because everyone needs a year old LL Bean catalog X100.

JPT · Senior Member

Our elderly neighbors just went into assisted living. Sadly, it was kind of done with unnecessary stress. Only daughter blew into town, sent parents into a local rehab center, then arranged a facility much too far for their friends, neighbors and church members to visit, and sent them directly there, just before Christmas.
No chance to say goodbye to their home of decades, left behind an indoor/outdoor cat that couldn't go with them, no chance to decide which personal items would move with them. Daughter then blew back out of town to continue her "dream trip" of motor home travel around the country (which she has been doing with her DH for the past 18 months, with another 18 months in their plan). The elderly couple call us in tears, the cat is now living under the shed in their now empty back yard, and coming to my house to eat.
Now, I don't disagree that they needed to be moved, but they way it was done, and her callous "I'm not going to sit here and watch them die" truly upset the neighbors and friends.
The poor cat has now lost two homes, the old woman is frantic to know that someone is caring for the cat.

The daughter has said she'll return in March to sell the house because "There's some big money there"

TrudyML · Guru

JPT? That is making me sad!

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

JPT that daughter is a horrible person. I hope her children do the same thing to her!

I'm glad you are feeding the poor cat.

Fort Worth Mom · Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

Lexxy wrote:
JPT that daughter is a horrible person. I hope her children do the same thing to her!

I'm glad you are feeding the poor cat.

Can you say heartless? With a capital H?

What a selfish b!tch! furious

Shame on her.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

Fort Worth Mom wrote:
Lexxy wrote:
JPT that daughter is a horrible person. I hope her children do the same thing to her!

I'm glad you are feeding the poor cat.
Can you say heartless? With a capital H?
What a selfish b!tch!
Shame on her.

I don't even understand how she can live with herself. It takes a really cold hearted bitch to do that.

Fort Worth Mom · Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

I can't even imagine it, Lexxy. cry

And, how does she figure on getting any money from the sale of their house?

Won't that money go into a trust, to pay for their care? confuse

Lawyerlady · On the bright side...... Christmas is coming! (Mod)

Well, I would like to know what was discussed leading up to this and why she did it so quickly.

NAOW · Vette's SS

I remember you talking about that JPT. That is just awful.

huskerbb · Guru

karl271 wrote:
As an aging individual, I will say that both I and my wife want to stay in our home as long as we can. We have no children so no one will be inconvenienced if we get up at all hours, etc. But it seems that Annie is assuming all of people will become careless, useless individuals and should plan on moving into assisted living (or worse) at some time. And, as to the OP, if the parents pose a threat to themselves or others, I am sure there are legal remedies - i.e. being appointed legal guardian, etc., that would allow placing them into assisted care.
If I am not reading it wrong, it seems the OP and all her siblings, mates, etc., live in the same house. I wonder what the story is on that? I also wonder if maybe it is just "too much trouble" to put with with mom and dad..... Never mind all the crap you put them through growing up.

-- Edited by karl271 on Wednesday 14th of January 2015 08:54:00 PM

But the FACT is that many, if not most, people will eventually get to that point. For some, it may be when they are well into their 90's. For others, it could be much earlier.

For MOST of these people who get into their mid to upper 80's, for sure, for a HIGH percentage of them, if they are still in their home, it is likely due to herculean efforts on the part of other family members. Not always--but a LOT.

When it gets to be more than the family can handle, they need to move mom and and into an assisted living facility--if not a long term care facility. Not an easy decision, but it's up to the family.

Occasionally, dear old mom and dad will put up a fight--but usually, if the other family members are united, they will agree to it. If not, maybe social work needs to get involved and if mom and dad truly cannot live on their own--there are things that can be done at that point, as well.

Fort Worth Mom · Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

My Mom is 91. She still lives in her own home. Keeps house. Cooks. Drives.

She hires out the mowing and the snow shoveling.

I pity the fool who suggests she needs to go to a home! biggrin

For sure, it won't be me! wink

huskerbb · Guru

Fort Worth Mom wrote:
My Mom is 91. She still lives in her own home. Keeps house. Cooks. Drives.
She hires out the mowing and the snow shoveling.
I pity the fool who suggests she needs to go to a home!
For sure, it won't be me!

But what happens when she can no longer drive, or cook, or even bathe?

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

Fort Worth Mom wrote:
My Mom is 91. She still lives in her own home. Keeps house. Cooks. Drives.
She hires out the mowing and the snow shoveling.
I pity the fool who suggests she needs to go to a home!
For sure, it won't be me!

My Mom's mom died in her mid 90s & still lived at home. Family members would check in on her & my oldest cousin mowed & shoveled for her, but everything else she did herself. All my life she had a huge vegetable garden. By the end it was just a tiny patch with a few tomatoes, peas & beans but she still gardened.

My other grandmother just turned 97 & is in a nursing home. She hates it but she fell a few years ago & it set off dimentia that worsened quickly. Last report from my cousin he took her a cup cake for her birthday last week & she didn't know what it was & tried to eat it with the paper still on. Very very sad.

JPT · Senior Member

Lawyerlady wrote:
Well, I would like to know what was discussed leading up to this and why she did it so quickly.

The daughter is married with step kids. She retired about 2 years ago, but according to another neighbor who has had longer conversations with our now gone elderly neighbors, she has been trying to get them into assisted living since 2002. Now, when we moved here in 2004, the old gent was still up on his ladder painting his house and doing all the yardwork, so evidently not ready for assisted living. He had a stroke a few years ago, plus some setbacks from surgical complications.

They were making do with visiting health care assistance and housekeeping. The daughter evidently called everyday. But I contend that you don't get the full picture of what is happening in a single daily phone call.

Back before Thanksgiving, the old gent called me, saying both he and his wife were in the local hospital and he couldn't reach the daughter. I tried both texting and calling the number I had for her, no voicemail box, and the texts came back "failed"

When I was finally able to reach her, she was rather snarky, saying she KNEW they were in the hospital, and she was flying back...between that and the stuff she told my neighbor, we pretty much got the picture of her orchestrating this while the mother was too sick to protest. They went straight from the hospital to the nursing facility across the street, after getting them arranged in assisted living. The woman wanted to come home to pack her stuff and have at least one last holiday in her home, but the daughter refused. The last time we saw them, the daughter was in the room, and they were all smiles. The neighbor saw them the next day without the daughter there, and they were crying about leaving. They were worried that they wouldn't ever see their friends again, as the daughter chose a facility about 45 miles away, closer to where she and her DH will settle after their dream trip (18 months plus from now) Sadly, I don't think they will be around by then.

The house does have deep water access, and as such, value for putting in a boat dock. Yes, the proceeds will be used to cover their new facility, but even at that, there will be a considerable amount left.

I feed the cat down at my "barn". He had been scrapping for food around other cats, and getting badly hurt in fights. Luckily no other cats at my place, so he can eat in peace. He waits for me every morning out there, and I try to spend some time petting and talking to him.

Fort Worth Mom · Mod/Penguin lover/Princess!

huskerbb wrote:
Fort Worth Mom wrote:
My Mom is 91. She still lives in her own home. Keeps house. Cooks. Drives.
She hires out the mowing and the snow shoveling.
I pity the fool who suggests she needs to go to a home!
For sure, it won't be me!
But what happens when she can no longer drive, or cook, or even bathe?

Somehow, I don't think that will happen.

I really think, she'll just die of a massive stroke, in her sleep, some day.

She has already looked into a stair lift, to get upstairs, if that ever becomes a problem. It's not. But she has a plan.

She's already looked into a cleaning service, should she ever need one. (Not even close. Her house is cleaner than mine.)

And, she's a better driver than a lot of the young folks in Ohio. (Remember, she got rear ended by a texting teenager. Saw it coming. Was pulling onto the shoulder of the road, so she wouldn't hit the car in front of her when she got hit. And, she knew she was going to get hit. Not many people my age are paying that much attention, to get out of the way.)

smile

NAOW · Vette's SS

Lexxy wrote:
Fort Worth Mom wrote:
My Mom is 91. She still lives in her own home. Keeps house. Cooks. Drives.
She hires out the mowing and the snow shoveling.
I pity the fool who suggests she needs to go to a home!
For sure, it won't be me!
My Mom's mom died in her mid 90s & still lived at home. Family members would check in on her & my oldest cousin mowed & shoveled for her, but everything else she did herself. All my life she had a huge vegetable garden. By the end it was just a tiny patch with a few tomatoes, peas & beans but she still gardened.
My other grandmother just turned 97 & is in a nursing home. She hates it but she fell a few years ago & it set off dimentia that worsened quickly. Last report from my cousin he took her a cup cake for her birthday last week & she didn't know what it was & tried to eat it with the paper still on. Very very sad.

It's this type of stuff that is so hard. I gave my grandma a picture of my kids, she was excited to have it and was telling me how cute they were, but she walked over to show my mom and I guess she got confused by the time she got there, because she looked at the picture again and told my mom 'these are really cute kids, but I don't know why anyone would give it to me. I have no idea who they are.' It is really sad.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

Actually JPT going straight from the hospital to assisted living helps with the Medicare process I think. That may be why the daughter insisted, not out of cruely.

JPT · Senior Member

Fort Worth Mom wrote:
huskerbb wrote:
Fort Worth Mom wrote:
My Mom is 91. She still lives in her own home. Keeps house. Cooks. Drives.
She hires out the mowing and the snow shoveling.
I pity the fool who suggests she needs to go to a home!
For sure, it won't be me!
But what happens when she can no longer drive, or cook, or even bathe?
Somehow, I don't think that will happen.
I really think, she'll just die of a massive stroke, in her sleep, some day.
She has already looked into a stair lift, to get upstairs, if that ever becomes a problem. It's not. But she has a plan.
She's already looked into a cleaning service, should she ever need one. (Not even close. Her house is cleaner than mine.)
And, she's a better driver than a lot of the young folks in Ohio. (Remember, she got rear ended by a texting teenager. Saw it coming. Was pulling onto the shoulder of the road, so she wouldn't hit the car in front of her when she got hit. And, she knew she was going to get hit. Not many people my age are paying that much attention, to get out of the way.)

My grandmother was like that, totally sharp and active, and died in her sleep. She lived in a senior complex, where they put a little door hanger on their door when they went to bed, and took it off in the morning, and someone checked the doors every evening and morning.

Lexxy · My dog name is Sasha, too!

NAOW wrote:
Lexxy wrote:
Fort Worth Mom wrote:
My Mom is 91. She still lives in her own home. Keeps house. Cooks. Drives.
She hires out the mowing and the snow shoveling.
I pity the fool who suggests she needs to go to a home!
For sure, it won't be me!
My Mom's mom died in her mid 90s & still lived at home. Family members would check in on her & my oldest cousin mowed & shoveled for her, but everything else she did herself. All my life she had a huge vegetable garden. By the end it was just a tiny patch with a few tomatoes, peas & beans but she still gardened.
My other grandmother just turned 97 & is in a nursing home. She hates it but she fell a few years ago & it set off dimentia that worsened quickly. Last report from my cousin he took her a cup cake for her birthday last week & she didn't know what it was & tried to eat it with the paper still on. Very very sad.
It's this type of stuff that is so hard. I gave my grandma a picture of my kids, she was excited to have it and was telling me how cute they were, but she walked over to show my mom and I guess she got confused by the time she got there, because she looked at the picture again and told my mom 'these are really cute kids, but I don't know why anyone would give it to me. I have no idea who they are.' It is really sad.

It is so sad. Last time I called her which is hard because she lost so many hearing aids we stopped replacing them, she either got bored or just decided she had talked long enough & just hung up on me. Some days she wants to know where her parents are & then cries when we have to explain yet again that they died 30+ years ago. I do not want to live long enough to be like this.

huskerbb · Guru

JPT wrote:
Lawyerlady wrote:
Well, I would like to know what was discussed leading up to this and why she did it so quickly.

The daughter is married with step kids. She retired about 2 years ago, but according to another neighbor who has had longer conversations with our now gone elderly neighbors, she has been trying to get them into assisted living since 2002. Now, when we moved here in 2004, the old gent was still up on his ladder painting his house and doing all the yardwork, so evidently not ready for assisted living. He had a stroke a few years ago, plus some setbacks from surgical complications.
They were making do with visiting health care assistance and housekeeping. The daughter evidently called everyday. But I contend that you don't get the full picture of what is happening in a single daily phone call.
Back before Thanksgiving, the old gent called me, saying both he and his wife were in the local hospital and he couldn't reach the daughter. I tried both texting and calling the number I had for her, no voicemail box, and the texts came back "failed"
When I was finally able to reach her, she was rather snarky, saying she KNEW they were in the hospital, and she was flying back...between that and the stuff she told my neighbor, we pretty much got the picture of her orchestrating this while the mother was too sick to protest. They went straight from the hospital to the nursing facility across the street, after getting them arranged in assisted living. The woman wanted to come home to pack her stuff and have at least one last holiday in her home, but the daughter refused. The last time we saw them, the daughter was in the room, and they were all smiles. The neighbor saw them the next day without the daughter there, and they were crying about leaving. They were worried that they wouldn't ever see their friends again, as the daughter chose a facility about 45 miles away, closer to where she and her DH will settle after their dream trip (18 months plus from now) Sadly, I don't think they will be around by then.

The house does have deep water access, and as such, value for putting in a boat dock. Yes, the proceeds will be used to cover their new facility, but even at that, there will be a considerable amount left.
I feed the cat down at my "barn". He had been scrapping for food around other cats, and getting badly hurt in fights. Luckily no other cats at my place, so he can eat in peace. He waits for me every morning out there, and I try to spend some time petting and talking to him.

It sounds like they were ready for the home.

It's really not your place to say one way, or another. It's a tough decision whenever the family has to make it.

Nobody Just Nobody · Rib-it! Rrrib-it!

I've worked in nursing homes my whole career almost. For anyone who wants advice here is mine. There is a huge massive difference between assisted living and a long term care facility. In assisted living you are still fairly independent and can come and go when you please and pretty much live on your own but have that peace of mind back up for if you need it. Plus the apartments are built for people who need extra help. They have things like grab bars in the bathrooms and such. This is a great option for older people who may have lost a spouse or just don't want the upkeep of a house.

Nursing homes or long term care facilities are a monster of another color. Some of them are excellent and some of them I wouldn't allow to house my dog. When choosing a facility, assisted living or long term care, first don't wait till the last minute. The more time you have to prepare the better off you will be. Look at all the facilities. Research them. And DO NOT schedule an appointment. If they tell you you can only come when you have an appointment, RUN. See if you can talk to other residents. Visit the facility several times. Eat there. If YOU don't want to eat there then don't put your family member there. If you go once and it smells they might be having a bad day. If every time you walk in the door it smells then you need to run. The staff will tell you what you want to hear to get you in the door. Oh, and those social workers that go out to the hospital to get people in the doors? They will promise you things that CANNOT be delivered. There is so much competition for the money these days. especially if you are a private pay patient. They will tell you anything to get you there. They will say you can do this and that and this. I have watched social workers go out and promise family that they can sleep in the rooms of patient when it is clearly written in the policy that they can't. They have promised them cable, phones, and numerous other things they can't deliver to get them out. DO NOT just blindly believe what they tell you. Investigate investigate investigate. Once you place someone there's nothing you can do about the rules and it takes an act of congress to get them switched.

For anyone putting someone in long term care. I beg of you, do not buy them expensive things. I can't count the number of families that would bring mom a $30 tube of lipstick or dad an expensive ipod. I am not going to lie. SOME of the staff steal. But more than that there are tons of confused patients who wander in and out of rooms and borrow items from their friends. I once took care of a lady whose daughter would bring cosmetics that cost hundreds of dollars. Her very confused mother would give away her lipsticks and such. The daughter would then come in and curse out the nurses and be angry that we didn't care for her mother's stuff. Listen, by mom a two dollar tube of lipstick so if she flushes it or her roommate eats it or she drops it outside you won't be upset. And please, get insurance on hearing aides and glasses. Old people do not keep up with them. They lose them. Please do not spend $600 on designer glasses for them. Same goes with clothes. Do not buy expensive things.

All that being said there are some fabulous places out there. Some really wonderful places. And then are some places I wouldn't let anyone live. And sometimes those places are necessary. Just take the time to find the right one.